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Set Damage vs. Scaling Damage: Damage Up in the Meta

mysteryracer

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SacredRose
Set Damage vs. Scaling Damage

Set Damage: Damage that does not increase or decrease based on a specific property, such as the distance the weapon is shot from, or how long the weapon is charged for. For example, a Slosher will always do the same damage no matter where it is shot from, and no matter how much of the ink hits the opponent. Sloshers have an infinite range to deal set damage. A Roller will do the same amount of damage if up close to an opponent, or near the opponent. Rollers have a low range to deal set damage.

Scaling Damage: Damage that increases or decreases based on a specific property, such as the distance the weapon is shot from, or how long the weapon is charged for. For example, a Roller will experience scaling damage if its too far away from the opponent. Any weapon can experience scaling damage if the shot travels too far, though most non-charger weapons don't experience scaling damage unless the shots are lobbied. Charger weapons don't experience scaling damage at 100% charge. Unlike other weapons, chargers are the only weapons that can scale damage up based on their charge.

About Damage Up: There has been some confusion as to the usefulness of Damage Up in Splatoon's meta, so I thought it would be useful to clarify between the different types of damage in Splatoon. As most of you know, Damage Up will not allow a weapon to kill in less hits than its default hits to splat via set damage. In other words, Damage Up is not effective on weapons that tend to deal set damage in most scenarios. Damage Up, however, is useful on weapons that scale in damage easily, because it allows weapons whose damage properties easily change based on distance to kill at a farther distance, or weapons whose damage properties change based on charge to kill at less of a charge.

Weapons that benefit from Damage Up:

  • Rollers: Damage Up gives Rollers more range to one shot opponents from. This is useful when the opponent is trying to space the Roller out, because the Roller can one shot from a farther distance, allowing the Roller to kill at a farther, less riskier distance. Dynamo Roller and Gold Dynamo Roller benefit from Damage Up the most out of any rollers, because of their superior spacing options.
  • Gal Series: The Gal Series of weapons are one of the only shot weapons that deal scaling damage under practical means. By giving Damage Up to a Gal weapon, its range to two shot increases slightly. However, the slight increase in range to two shot may not be worth giving up a main slot for.
  • Chargers: Damage Up allows chargers to essentially one shot faster, by decreasing the time needed to charge before the weapon can kill. For example, the E-Liter 3K kills at a 75% charge, but with enough Damage Ups, it can kill at a 50% charge, allowing for faster kills. Weapons such as the Bamboozler 14 MK can kill at two 50% charges with Damage Up, allowing the weapon to kill much faster and not require a full charge.
  • Blasters: Currently Testing
  • Inkbrushes: Currently Testing

About Defense Up:
One would suggest that Defense Up is the same as Damage Up, but in reverse, because if two players fire shots at each other, you'd still be in the same advantage. However, this logic only applies if two players fire shots at each other simultaneously. If you're chasing down an opponent because you have the advantage, then Defense Up is completely useless. If you're trying to flee from the battle, then Defense Up can help you escape. However, the time defense up grants you to escape against most battles is very small, especially if the weapon has a good fire rate, because the opponent simply has to hit you one more time to kill. Defense Up is best used to survive against Rollers and Chargers, if your weapon has a difficult time taking them out, because Rollers must close in more to get the kill, and Chargers must charge their weapon longer to kill you. Defense Up is a good option to consider on maps such as Moray Towers, Port Mackerel, and Camp Triggerfish, where Rollers and Chargers can become a major nuisance.
I will edit this thread as I find out new information. Feel free to post anything I have not included in this thread that should be included.​
 
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LMG

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Gal Series: Weapons in this series, when up close, are a two shot kill, but from a distance are a three shot kill. With Damage Up, these weapons can become a two shot kill from a distance, which gives these weapons better combat range. With this said, the range given isn't that much, so Damage Up may not be that useful on these weapons.
Actually, all shooters deal set damage up to the point where their shot begins to drop towards the ground. At that point, the damage dealt becomes lower than usual, often requiring more shots to splat. However, the .52 Gals still benefit from Damage Up since one Defense Up is enough to increase its shots to splat

Edit: Did some proper testing and the shooter's damage decreases a lot when the shot begins to fall. Even with one main Damage Up, I was unable to require the usual amount of shots to splat with any shooter, even the .96 Gal
 
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SquiliamTentacles

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Actually, all shooters deal set damage up to the point where their shot begins to drop towards the ground. At that point, the damage dealt becomes lower than usual, often requiring more shots to splat. However, the .52 Gals still benefit from Damage Up since one Defense Up is enough to increase its shots to splat
Even with the decreasing damage, most shots don't drop from the shooters and the effect is usually minor. The 52. Gal and the Splash O Matic are the only two that one defence up counters, but the Splash O Matic has such good accuracy and fire rate the extra shot is trivial.
 

mysteryracer

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Actually, all shooters deal set damage up to the point where their shot begins to drop towards the ground. At that point, the damage dealt becomes lower than usual, often requiring more shots to splat. However, the .52 Gals still benefit from Damage Up since one Defense Up is enough to increase its shots to splat
EDIT: It seems every weapon can scale in damage if lobbied right. It was something I didn't test, but I need to edit this thread to address it.
 
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mysteryracer

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The thread has been edited. Weapons actually have different ranges in which the damage starts to scale. For example, Rollers have less range to deal their set damage, where shots have more range to deal their set damage. This makes Damage Up more ideal on Rollers, as their scaled damage could drop to a point where it becomes more shots to kill much easier than a shot weapon. Rollers therefore have a more strict criteria for maintaining their default shots to kill, and benefit more from damage up than a shot weapon, which may almost never take advantage of the buff.
 

Jeremyx7

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Nice analysis. While I agree that defense up is mainly useful for fleeing I also feel it's very very useful against sub weapons of all kinds and minimizes the effectiveness of any blast radius significantly. This in turn allows one to hold their ground a bit better. Also, because you can heal up a bit quicker in your own ink, defense helps in a way to heal full health even faster because of less damage taken. In a game where split seconds can mean surviving or splats I find defense in Splatoon to be valuable in many scenarios.
 
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mysteryracer

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Nice analysis. While I agree that defense up is mainly useful for fleeing I also feel it's very very useful against sub weapons of all kinds and minimizes the effectiveness of any blast radius significantly. This in turn allows one to hold their ground a bit better. Also, because you can heal up a bit quicker in your own ink, defense helps in a way to heal full health even faster because of less damage taken. In a game where split seconds can mean surviving or splats I find defense in Splatoon to be valuable in many scenarios.
Thanks! I'll make sure to include the parts you mentioned.
 

TheMH

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However, the slight increase in range to two shot may not be worth giving up a main slot for.
In my opinion you should only go for Damage Up mains if you are using an E-Liter. You only have 3 mains and on most loadouts two are "blocked" by Cold-Blooded and Ink Resistance. The Custom Jet Squelcher is an example of a shooter on which you may use a Damage Up main on your shoes (but then no Damage Up subs), as it shouldn't engage close range fights and has burst bombs to ink it's feet.

I noticed a lot of Japanese players who stack lots and lots of Defense Ups recently. I think either these players overestimate or we underestimate the power of Defense Up in the current meta. It counters Damage Up (especially on E-Liters) and can give you a slight advantage in fights which would end in trades, but overall I still think of Defense Up as one of the weaker abilities. It might be stronger in the chaos of pubs, though.
 

Jeremyx7

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What i do know for sure is that defense up on my clothes has allowed me to stay in fierce fire fights, surviving long enough to make an extra splat or two with a quick split second shot or nade throw, helps me when fleeing which in turn allows me to make critical plays. I notice a significant difference when I'm using a set without any D up.
 

PHYTO-1

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Set Damage: Damage that does not increase or decrease based on a specific property, such as the distance the weapon is shot from, or how long the weapon is charged for. For example, a Slosher will always do the same damage no matter where it is shot from, and no matter how much of the ink hits the opponent. Sloshers have an infinite range to deal set damage. A Roller will do the same amount of damage if up close to an opponent, or near the opponent. Rollers have a low range to deal set damage.


false. the slosher will deal less damage when the target is at a lower elevation (more than a jump's height lower than you). no matter if you hit them directly.

just like others have pointed out, once the the weapon has reached its peak velocity it will deal less damage too

so far it seems like only sub weapons are unaffected by this ; even sprinklers.

Unlike other weapons, chargers are the only weapons that can scale damage up based on their charge
rainmaker. lol :ability_runspeed:
 

PHYTO-1

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Actually, I think someone said that the Sprinkler's damage caps at 33.3
it was probably me. but my point to that was the sprinkler is unaffected by the range/velocity to damage drop off. no matter how high up and far the sprinkler is, it will always do its same base damage,
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Your example about the bucket in set DMG is incorrect. A bucket can do between 40 to 140 DMG, with one hit, in one spot.

@TheMH dmg up is pretty amazing for burst bombs; just sayin. I also wouldn't encourage playing w/o ink res. unless you're a sniper and maybe a dynamo.
 
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LMG

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Your example about the bucket in set DMG is incorrect. A bucket can do between 40 to 140 DMG, with one hit, in one spot.
Actually, I've been unable to do any more than 70 damage with the Slosher (Damage Ups aside). Even if I throw the ink on top of the target, it caps at 70 (I can even see the numbers changing from 40 to 70)
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Actually, I've been unable to do any more than 70 damage with the Slosher (Damage Ups aside). Even if I throw the ink on top of the target, it caps at 70 (I can even see the numbers changing from 40 to 70)
Get close, aim high and jump, and you can get one hit - one kill; it does 140 DMG w/o boosts. I've mentioned this before, can no one do it? I can make and upload a quick video, if need be.
 

LMG

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Get close, aim high and jump, and you can get one hit - one kill; it does 140 DMG w/o boosts. I've mentioned this before, can no one do it? I can make and upload a quick video, if need be.
That's what I've been trying to do and it caps at 70.
 

PHYTO-1

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I don't think they have patched the weapon since release, so I'll mess with it and try to get a video up later.
i am also unable to recreate this. the slosher throws out two hitboxes, initial at 70 dmg and from the pullback at 40 dmg which doesn't add up to 140, but nonetheless these two hitboxes do not chain together.

140 is equal to 70+70 not doubting you but i would like to see a video as this sounds very useful
 

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