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Squad Roles - Inquisition

Valkyria

Bottom Feeder
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
203
NNID
Valkyriah
I was saying I was goofing off because I was, I don't play 100% of matches seriously, and if you weren't aware, I'm Mullin from CB, a team that has consistently performed better than your team ever has, ever. I've beaten C- every time I've met them in tournaments. Before you talk about results or people being bad, maybe know who you are talking to. If your logic is that support doesn't exist in this game then maybe stop playing because as long as you do you won't ever post results.
Most recent tournament - Calimari Cup 3 results



Take a seat son. Not interested in cyberbullying some kid, so tell you what - next time I need a professional point sensor thrower, I give you a call.
 

Ultramus

Pro Squid
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
103
Congrats, you placed better than us in one tournament. What about literally every other tournament? The fact that our team is in League A and your's is in League B. And again, have you ever beaten us in tournament, ever? I know that I personally have beaten C- in tournament play, and the fact that two of your former players ended up on our team because they felt your's wasn't competitive, guess you have a little bit of a bone to pick. If you think looking at one tournament finish means you are the better team, then I can see why you can't hold onto talent, you're too myopic to be an effective captain.

Edit: And despite our disappointing finishes this month, we are still somehow 21 ranks above you.
 
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Cyanhyde

Inkster Jr.
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
16
Location
Ottawa, Canada
NNID
Evanescyan
@Ultramus @Valkyria
Guys... I appreciate the opinions on squad roles, but this really isn't a thread for an argument about tournament placements, of all things. Please, if you don't mind, could you take it elsewhere? Competitive discussion maybe? Or just not argue whatsoever? (I like that last one best)

Seriously, there's no need to try and invalidate each other's thoughts on the matter.

Live and let squid.
 

Valkyria

Bottom Feeder
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
203
NNID
Valkyriah
This is what happens when a kid gets cornered from every angle. He always goes for personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic in the hopes of saving face. Why else are you posting completely off topic material in this thread?

Just for the record, those 2 members you mentioned didn’t leave C- for Cyberbullies. They left for Squid Squad Clubs. C- is still around, SS-C is not.
 

Ultramus

Pro Squid
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
103
Ok, first off, you came into this thread stating your opinion, that people who think "roles" exist in this game are foolish, and that you can't support without getting kills. When I disagreed, you decided to firstly question whether I was actually a competitive player, and that my "theories" of roles would not translate into results.

When I made it known I'm a member of, and have been a member of teams that have outperformed yours dating all the way back to SS-J, you decided to point to the most recent tournament result as a means of invalidating my opinion.

I posted my opinion and you decided that it was wrong because in your eyes it didn't get results, when I brought to light that yes, it does get results, your argument was essentially, "Not this one time", while ignoring all the times that we have posted good results?

I stand by my assertion that your initial post was foolish, myopic, and shows that you have a poor understanding of the game. If you want to appeal to authority, clearly you lose there, because again, 21 points higher than your team in the rankings, our ideas work, your's don't.
 

Valkyria

Bottom Feeder
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
203
NNID
Valkyriah
Nah, re-read post #20. It was all "Somebody tell him who the F I is! I am MULLIN FROM CB!! I mack dudes up, back coupes up, and chuck the deuce up."

Nice try though lol
 

Ultramus

Pro Squid
Joined
May 29, 2015
Messages
103
You straight up insinuated that I didn't know what I was talking about, as if I wasn't "familiar" with the big tournaments, and that everyone plays support is bad. You insulted not only players from my own team, but players from other teams as well. When I stated I had a terrible game that I made the key play that led to victory, you directly attacked me as a player that "makes excuses" such as goofing off or supporting, despite both of those things being completely legitimate. Don't pretend like you didn't start this just because I didn't turn out to be some B rank scrub.
 

Valkyria

Bottom Feeder
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
203
NNID
Valkyriah
G'night kid. Every post makes you more desperate to salvage some scrap of dignity from this. Wake up smarter.
 

Silver

Speedrunning Inkling
Moderator
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
139
Location
Oregon
NNID
MHFsilver
Please refrain from all the negative comments please. Thank you.
We do not need these kinds of posts around here. So please, if you don't have anything positive to say do not say anything.
 

tazz

Inkster Jr.
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Messages
25
The so-called "support" role is complete BS. Want to stop the enemy team from completing their objective? Kill them. When people say "I helped that round - I supported you guys", it's nothing more than an excuse for their < 1 K/D. The only true support roles are those who are designated rainmaker carriers, tower riders, or splat zone inkers. Way too often people say "Well, I did good. I threw point sensors at the people on the tower. It's your fault for not killing them while they were marked" or "I put up a lot of beakons that round, I did my job". Bull****. By definition, if you are playing the game, the mere presence of your inkling serves as distraction to the other team if nothing else. So yes, you could say you're supporting the team based on that alone. But to make that statement more than just an excuse for poor performance, get on the tower, ink the zone, push the rainmaker, and get some kills.
I have to disagree with this post a bit :confused:

I do think that support roles exist (chargers, beacon users, weapons that establish ink control quickly, etc), and that low K/D ratios do not inherently mean that someone is doing poorly. If the frontline of my team is killing the other team before I can get them in my sights, I can support my team by placing beacons and building special (as a custom e liter), allowing my team to get back in quickly and put even more pressure on the other team. Even though I may only go 1-1, it is absurd to say that I did badly because I supported my team. Similarly, if I'm playing Dynamo or jr, even if I spend the entire match pressuring the zones and getting low K/D ratios, that doesn't mean that I did bad. There are so many more ways to support your team than kills, and these roles are some of the most important on virtually every competitive team.
 

Skoodge

Brella Aficionado
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
118
Location
Colorado
Switch Friend Code
SW-2149-6955-3787
Support is so important in this game, and what ultimately pushed me from S to S+, was a change of weapon, to the Zink Mini Splatling, and playing support. I have won so many Splat Zones matches by just keeping the enemy back with disruptors and covering the zone, and area around it, so the enemy team can't push the zone. In Rainmaker I will focus on the rest of the map unless my team needs me, then I flank the enemies, we take the Rainmaker, and from this map control we can win. Tower control I play similarly. This doesn't have to come at the cost of K/D, but sometimes keeping enemies from objectives is enough, they don't have to be splatted always, just distracted long enough to get a good lead, but obviously stopping the Rainmaker and tower are required too. It is a balance of supporting your team, and splatting the other, but to claim support is not a key role is just ridiculous, support, in the form of map control, increases your team's offense, and reduces the other team's offense, making everything easier.

Edit: To clarify this doesn't mean I always have a bad K/D, last night I had games of 10/4 or 9/3, but I've also had games of 3/9, and felt I contributed the same amount to the team. K/D is too simple a metric to determine your value to the team. Bad snipers can have a good K/D but lose consistently because they don't contribute towards the objective.

Ultimately, random splats are worth little, the enemy team will just wait a couple seconds. Stopping a push towards the zone, or stopping the rainmaker and at least one other person, are worth much more, and support is what makes these kinds of plays possible.
 
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Ellocus

Senior Squid
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
59
NNID
rebellocus
In regards to the support role. It exists. Most of my thoughts on it have been summed up nicely by Squid Kids here:

For those that think that opinions need to be backed up by results of those giving them (which is a flawed view, but if giving weight to their opinions makes you watch the video, we will all be better off)
They beat Cyberbullies here http://challonge.com/CalCup3
and beat the team that beat both C- and D+ here http://challonge.com/topcutsurfandturf
 

Skoodge

Brella Aficionado
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
118
Location
Colorado
Switch Friend Code
SW-2149-6955-3787
I saw that video recently too, and it is pretty much exactly what I think too, thanks for posting it here!
 

NeoSeth

Senior Squid
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
74
I think a big misconception is that support players don't kill. Support players DO kill, and they SHOULD kill, but their job description is probably not going to get them as many as the players leading the pushes. A record for a game might have the frontline .52 gal player going 10-4, while the team's support player might go 4-1. That's not to say I haven't had games where I haven't played my role and gone 16-4 or something crazy like that, but generally speaking you're going to get a more modest K/D score.

Watching flanks and keeping mid control WILL win the game for you. It provides your front-liners with retreat options and stops them from being blindsided. Support players should be mobile and able to recognize where they are needed WHEN they are needed there. Assuming that you also have a charger or similar suppression weapon, I think you should only have 1 dedicated support player as you do need to be making hard pushes. That's another attribute of a great support player: Knowing when they need to be pushing too. Making that big 4-person push will be the right play compared to something more conservative some times. And it's being able to do this that makes certain "support weapons" better than others. The CJS is so good because when that push comes you can pressure your opponent's team aggressively while still maintaining defensive positioning, and you have the Kraken for that key moment.

Support players are not and should not be passive parts of the battle. They just (usually) aren't as glamorous, for want of a better word.
 
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RealEpic21

Inkling
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
11
NNID
RealEpic21
Switch Friend Code
SW-0225-8332-0439
I think a big misconception is that support players don't kill. Support players DO kill, and they SHOULD kill, but their job description is probably not going to get them as many as the players leading the pushes. A record for a game might have the frontline .52 gal player going 10-4, while the team's support player might go 4-1. That's not to say I haven't had games where I haven't played my role and gone 16-4 or something crazy like that, but generally speaking you're going to get a more modest K/D score.

Watching flanks and keeping mid control WILL win the game for you. It provides your front-liners with retreat options and stops them from being blindsided. Support players should be mobile and able to recognize where they are needed WHEN they are needed there. Assuming that you also have a charger or similar suppression weapon, I think you should only have 1 dedicated support player as you do need to be making hard pushes. That's another attribute of a great support player: Knowing when they need to be pushing too. Making that big 4-person push will be the right play compared to something more conservative some times. And it's being able to do this that makes certain "support weapons" better than others. The CJS is so good because when that push comes you can pressure your opponent's team aggressively while still maintaining defensive positioning, and you have the Kraken for that key moment.

Support players are not and should not be passive parts of the battle. They just (usually) aren't as glamorous, for want of a better word.
Yea
 

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