SquidBoards Chat 01: Where Are We Now?

[banyochan]

1. Having only Shooters and Rollers would be disastrous, because Rollers are much, much weaker than Shooters.

I have to disagree, as the vertical flick has ridiculous reach, and with most rollers it's a 1hko. I'd say they're good enough to replace chargers.

If I'm inferring correctly, you are implying that you haven't played much Splatoon so far, (<50 hours) and it shows.

Actually, I've put in much more into the game already, so your assumption is wrong. While the amount of time I've put into this game isn't impressive yet, it's not as low as you've assumed.

you want to keep Splashdown (the main panic button, and one of the weakest specials of S2) in the game.

Splashdown works as a panic button only in low level game, using it in a tight situation with even half competent enemies is a guaranteed death unless you're lucky. It's quite versatile (inking turf, especially if you can get height to make it more powerful, which is a guaranteed capture in splat zones, a way to gain more points after the end of a match in turf war, and a way to quickly recharge ink). The fact that with a fast enough reaction you can easily take down the person using splashdown makes it into a good special that requires strategy to use. Booyah bomb gives you ridiculous amounts of shield as you're using it, so it takes plenty of firepower to take down someone charging it, and you'd probably need at least 2 people coordinating an attack to have a somewhat reliable way to take it down.

Baller is bad simply because it gives you enough shield to ignore enemies as you're approaching the key point you want to do something with, and is commonly abused in clam blitz.

If I were to guess, your favorite weapon has Splashdown on it

That is not the case.

 

[Saber]

@banyochan No................

 

[Saber]

Firstoff
Weapons allow for multiple playstyles, many different strategies and compositions which I appeciate

Having various types of weapons encourages players to be able to play their way, and allows the games meta to change with it

If it was only rollers and shooters kills replayability there would be probably be only a handful of meta weapons, with niche picks, combat would be stagnant and repetitive and overall not fun


Btw, give credit to the game design, each and every weapon in this game is viable some might be less used or tricky but they are all viable which is more than I can say for 90% of the online games out there


Also on the subject of baller....you are using it wrong, it is predictable yeah, but it can be used to block enemy fire to the same extent as a brella with an explosive end, create a path for the rainmaker, ink equal or greater area than the splashdown.
It is a great tool for initiating pushes and have used it many time in rainmaker, tower control, and splat zones to great effect (btw this is against pros)
Clam blitz is the easiest place to find it cuz it is they are the easiest to coordinate there

All specials are good but none of them do not work nearly as effective without planning and coordination
which is why they were shifted in Splatoon 1 in the first place cuz those special allowed 1 player to easily take out enemies from across the map without any plan (cough inkzooka, killer wail)

 

[Stardust]

I recently got back into the game. I have school to worry about so I'm not AS active, but I try to put in an hour or so, realized that backline weapons are amazing.

 

[banyochan]

If it was only rollers and shooters kills replayability there would be probably be only a handful of meta weapons, with niche picks, combat would be stagnant and repetitive and overall not fun

Btw, give credit to the game design, each and every weapon in this game is viable some might be less used or tricky but they are all viable which is more than I can say for 90% of the online games out there

I have to disagree, as I can't find any excuse to why dynamo roller exists. It's too heavy for any use, you won't be able to use a sub if you use it at all, and splat roller is already a 1hko weapon. Some weapons (like bloblobbers) are extremely overpowered, especially if you're playing a bad map such as moray towers, where it makes chargers irrelevant, as you keep getting easy kills at insane ranges where nobody can really counter you. Ensuring every weapon doesn't have enough range to allow for this kind of playstyle would make the game more about being able to react faster and flank enemies rather than taking the vantage point and just pin enemies down.

Also on the subject of baller....you are using it wrong, it is predictable yeah, but it can be used to block enemy fire to the same extent as a brella with an explosive end, create a path for the rainmaker, ink equal or greater area than the splashdown.
It is a great tool for initiating pushes and have used it many time in rainmaker, tower control, and splat zones to great effect (btw this is against pros)
Clam blitz is the easiest place to find it cuz it is they are the easiest to coordinate there

I've never used baller, as I'm not interested in using specials as cheap as it is. Tenta missiles can be used to clear out a base to start a push in clam blitz when used correctly, and these are a suicide button compared to other panic button specials.

 

[Saber]

I have to disagree, as I can't find any excuse to why dynamo roller exists. It's too heavy for any use, you won't be able to use a sub if you use it at all, and splat roller is already a 1hko weapon. Some weapons (like bloblobbers) are extremely overpowered, especially if you're playing a bad map such as moray towers, where it makes chargers irrelevant, as you keep getting easy kills at insane ranges where nobody can really counter you. Ensuring every weapon doesn't have enough range to allow for this kind of playstyle would make the game more about being able to react faster and flank enemies rather than taking the vantage point and just pin enemies down.

1. Dynamo role is map control, and backline defense and support with it's subs and specials allowing for someone who a backline role while having good coverage

AGAIN you would remove splatlings, chargers, brushes, dulies, buckets, Squeezers, Brella, and Blastersfor only 2 of the 8 classes ( and the 40+ weapons) that would take away so much content and variability from the game for fast gameplay... a trait commonly associated with this game''


Have you played all of the weapons? Some of these classes offers some unique take on the game

Personally I would reccommend for the squiffer, googla dulies, zink mini, bamboozler, luna blasgter, Goo tuber, and undercover brella
Each offer a unique taste on the close combat you seem to enjoy but spread across the different classes while offering more challenge and skill to implement which I enjoy

*****TAKE THIS TO HEART PLZ
I understand your hate of bloblobbers and your frustration with using and dealing with chargers on certain maps but don't write off every weapon class or every weapon just because of that, I learned every weapon in both S1 and S2 and it was then that I really had fun with the game
What I am saying is try to be open minded****


I also learned more tech about the game Like pierce bursting on the explosher (which let you deal 90dmg in a single swing) on which I got the idea from playing both blasters and chargers

If you wanted to make an more convincing point I suggest a complaint on the weapon variants or certain weapons needing changes in the future (the dynamo and hydra splatling was the most broken weapon in Splatoon 1, likely the blobblobbers will get the same treatment as those got in future titles)


"I've never used baller, as I'm not interested in using specials as cheap as it is. Tenta missiles can be used to clear out a base to start a push in clam blitz when used correctly, and these are a suicide button compared to other panic button specials."

Not going to reiterate but if you don't like them in clam blitz that is ok, I was merely stating that is where people most use them but if you read before that you'll see there are other uses for it outsideof Clam Blitz

 

[banyochan]

1. Dynamo role is map control, and backline defense and support with it's subs and specials allowing for someone who a backline role while having good coverage

AGAIN you would remove splatlings, chargers, brushes, dulies, buckets, Squeezers, Brella, and Blastersfor only 2 of the 8 classes ( and the 40+ weapons) that would take away so much content and variability from the game for fast gameplay... a trait commonly associated with this game''


Have you played all of the weapons? Some of these classes offers some unique take on the game

Personally I would reccommend for the squiffer, googla dulies, zink mini, bamboozler, luna blasgter, Goo tuber, and undercover brella
Each offer a unique taste on the close combat you seem to enjoy but spread across the different classes while offering more challenge and skill to implement which I enjoy

*****TAKE THIS TO HEART PLZ
I understand your hate of bloblobbers and your frustration with using and dealing with chargers on certain maps but don't write off every weapon class or every weapon just because of that, I learned every weapon in both S1 and S2 and it was then that I really had fun with the game
What I am saying is try to be open minded****


I also learned more tech about the game Like pierce bursting on the explosher (which let you deal 90dmg in a single swing) on which I got the idea from playing both blasters and chargers

If you wanted to make an more convincing point I suggest a complaint on the weapon variants or certain weapons needing changes in the future (the dynamo and hydra splatling was the most broken weapon in Splatoon 1, likely the blobblobbers will get the same treatment as those got in future titles)


"I've never used baller, as I'm not interested in using specials as cheap as it is. Tenta missiles can be used to clear out a base to start a push in clam blitz when used correctly, and these are a suicide button compared to other panic button specials."

Not going to reiterate but if you don't like them in clam blitz that is ok, I was merely stating that is where people most use them but if you read before that you'll see there are other uses for it outsideof Clam Blitz

I take the approach where removing things leads to making something better, and I feel like almost every weapon class in this game is basically pointless. I feel like a much smaller game would result in tighter gameplay, and that redundancy doesn't make things any better. This approach to things might be at odds with yours, but you should give a try to something very old with less options, that result in a more skill-oriented game.

 

[calamaro]

I guarantee less weapons would mean less players. I know i would not buy the game with 2 classes of weapons. It would be mirror matches all the time. Not fun.

A dynamo in a good players hands can control the map like no other I think..

 

[Stardust]

I have to disagree, as I can't find any excuse to why dynamo roller exists. It's too heavy for any use, you won't be able to use a sub if you use it at all, and splat roller is already a 1hko weapon. Some weapons (like bloblobbers) are extremely overpowered, especially if you're playing a bad map such as moray towers, where it makes chargers irrelevant, as you keep getting easy kills at insane ranges where nobody can really counter you. Ensuring every weapon doesn't have enough range to allow for this kind of playstyle would make the game more about being able to react faster and flank enemies rather than taking the vantage point and just pin enemies down.

As a dynamo main, let me just say that, assuming you haven't used it much, you have no idea how to use it. A dynamo doesn't work the way other rollers do, it's meant to be a more supportive weapon with focus on a defensive playstyle. The slow swing doesn't mean a thing unless you are trying to use it as a frontline weapon. The ink usage is also less of a problem than you think, sure you can't spam subs, but really the only one that really has any reason to use a sub often is the gold, and even then a main of sub saver is an easy way to conserve ink.

Also I disagree on your thoughts of the bloblobber, it isn't over powered, especially not in moray towers, (A map I actually really like) it's mainly useful in a narrow space with a lot of walls, and while it can go over walls, it doesn't shoot very high. The narrow paths in moray towers have almost no walls meaning that it's presence is obvious, it's shots are easy to avoid too because of how they always come out in a line.

Finally, chargers, unless they are really good, can be easily avoided if you're slick enough, even then if you're sneaky or if you annoy them with auto bombs or torpedo, it becomes easier to get the splat.

 

[The Salamander King]

I have to disagree, as the vertical flick has ridiculous reach, and with most rollers it's a 1hko. I'd say they're good enough to replace chargers.



Actually, I've put in much more into the game already, so your assumption is wrong. While the amount of time I've put into this game isn't impressive yet, it's not as low as you've assumed.



Splashdown works as a panic button only in low level game, using it in a tight situation with even half competent enemies is a guaranteed death unless you're lucky. It's quite versatile (inking turf, especially if you can get height to make it more powerful, which is a guaranteed capture in splat zones, a way to gain more points after the end of a match in turf war, and a way to quickly recharge ink). The fact that with a fast enough reaction you can easily take down the person using splashdown makes it into a good special that requires strategy to use. Booyah bomb gives you ridiculous amounts of shield as you're using it, so it takes plenty of firepower to take down someone charging it, and you'd probably need at least 2 people coordinating an attack to have a somewhat reliable way to take it down.

Baller is bad simply because it gives you enough shield to ignore enemies as you're approaching the key point you want to do something with, and is commonly abused in clam blitz.



That is not the case.

1. Please, and I mean it, PEASE pick consistent definitions for "bad". Is it poorly designed? Is it too good and thus bad for the game? Is it weak in the game? PLEASE pick one and stick with it. You called Baller bad originally, and you still are, but you're also talking about how powerful it is and how it can be abused.

2. I don't completely disagree with you on behalf of Booyah Bomb. In fact, I made an entire thread about how it's poorly designed. Feel free to take a look at it: https://squidboards.com/threads/how...nd-the-tragedy-of-stingray.41482/#post-278733

3. The Roller class is by far the weakest in Splatoon. They don't paint well, don't generally have great kits, they are slow, both in killtime and movement speed, the list goes on and on. When using a Splat Roller's vertical flick, the "ridiculous reach" you claim is actually only slightly more than the range of the Splattershot. If this wasn't enough, the flick is very slow, will require at least 2 hits to kill from that range, and locks your movement in a set trajectory for a while. A decent Splattershot, Nzap, Splash o Matic, Pro, Jet, .52, (etc., etc.) will either tank or dodge the first flick and kill you by the time you land. The major issue with Rollers, when compared to other weapons, is that they require you to get in close and rush your enemy. This is all fine and dandy if you're a weapon like Brella, or Splattershot, or Nzap, and so on, because your weapon has ways of facilitating a successful rush. Short-range shooters can pressure with bombs, paint up quickly, dodge in and out of ink with no lag between shots, and score very fast, very accurate kills. Brellas paint well and possess the greatest rush tool in the game in the shield. Most Rollers don't have bomb subs (and the 3 that do play different roles than your traditional Roller) and can't paint or kill quickly from anywhere besides kissing range.

You might argue that Dynamo is the exception to these issues, but they fall into similar trappings, they just have an easier time against the short-ranged shooters because of the much larger and more powerful Horizontal flick. Dynamo will still be utterly destroyed by the likes of Jet Squelcher, Squeezer, Pro, and .96 Gal. Dynamo doesn't even play like any other Roller, so using as evidence of the Roller class's strength is misjudged.

4. Rollers and Chargers are not similar at all. A short-range, sharking Roller will not take the same job on a team as a long-range, slow Charger on a sniper tower. Rollers cannot replace Chargers because the ways the weapons are designed simply does not allow them to. If Chargers were to be removed, they wouldn't be replaced with Rollers, they'd be replaced by the Custom Jet Squelcher and the Squeezer.

 

[banyochan]

1. Please, and I mean it, PEASE pick consistent definitions for "bad". Is it poorly designed? Is it too good and thus bad for the game? Is it weak in the game? PLEASE pick one and stick with it. You called Baller bad originally, and you still are, but you're also talking about how powerful it is and how it can be abused.

2. I don't completely disagree with you on behalf of Booyah Bomb. In fact, I made an entire thread about how it's poorly designed. Feel free to take a look at it: https://squidboards.com/threads/how...nd-the-tragedy-of-stingray.41482/#post-278733

3. The Roller class is by far the weakest in Splatoon. They don't paint well, don't generally have great kits, they are slow, both in killtime and movement speed, the list goes on and on. When using a Splat Roller's vertical flick, the "ridiculous reach" you claim is actually only slightly more than the range of the Splattershot. If this wasn't enough, the flick is very slow, will require at least 2 hits to kill from that range, and locks your movement in a set trajectory for a while. A decent Splattershot, Nzap, Splash o Matic, Pro, Jet, .52, (etc., etc.) will either tank or dodge the first flick and kill you by the time you land. The major issue with Rollers, when compared to other weapons, is that they require you to get in close and rush your enemy. This is all fine and dandy if you're a weapon like Brella, or Splattershot, or Nzap, and so on, because your weapon has ways of facilitating a successful rush. Short-range shooters can pressure with bombs, paint up quickly, dodge in and out of ink with no lag between shots, and score very fast, very accurate kills. Brellas paint well and possess the greatest rush tool in the game in the shield. Most Rollers don't have bomb subs (and the 3 that do play different roles than your traditional Roller) and can't paint or kill quickly from anywhere besides kissing range.

You might argue that Dynamo is the exception to these issues, but they fall into similar trappings, they just have an easier time against the short-ranged shooters because of the much larger and more powerful Horizontal flick. Dynamo will still be utterly destroyed by the likes of Jet Squelcher, Squeezer, Pro, and .96 Gal. Dynamo doesn't even play like any other Roller, so using as evidence of the Roller class's strength is misjudged.

4. Rollers and Chargers are not similar at all. A short-range, sharking Roller will not take the same job on a team as a long-range, slow Charger on a sniper tower. Rollers cannot replace Chargers because the ways the weapons are designed simply does not allow them to. If Chargers were to be removed, they wouldn't be replaced with Rollers, they'd be replaced by the Custom Jet Squelcher and the Squeezer.

I guess you've never seen a decent player who plays frontline with a splat roller, and ends up getting the most kills in a ranked match. Even when I was completely new to the game, I could stop a rush on me from 3 people trying to kill me at once. Rollers are extremely powerful if you learn the playstyle, and they can be used for frontline combat, and horizontal flicks are a decent way of disposing of enemies.

 

[The Salamander King]

I guess you've never seen a decent player who plays frontline with a splat roller, and ends up getting the most kills in a ranked match. Even when I was completely new to the game, I could stop a rush on me from 3 people trying to kill me at once. Rollers are extremely powerful if you learn the playstyle, and they can be used for frontline combat, and horizontal flicks are a decent way of disposing of enemies.

Have you ever noticed how competitive players, AKA, the people who know the most about what is good and what is bad in this game, almost never run Rollers?

The reason you could stop a rush on you from 3 people at once when you were completely new to the game is because the other people you were matched up with were also new to the game. Rollers are perfect "noob-slayers" because they're easy, OP on the surface level (literally the opposite once you get passed the surface level) and carry a 1HKO.

Using a random match in Ranked as evidence is useless. I've gone 28-3 with Sploosh Neo before, doesn't make the weapon good.

I have to disagree, as I can't find any excuse to why dynamo roller exists. It's too heavy for any use, you won't be able to use a sub if you use it at all, and splat roller is already a 1hko weapon. Some weapons (like bloblobbers) are extremely overpowered, especially if you're playing a bad map such as moray towers, where it makes chargers irrelevant, as you keep getting easy kills at insane ranges where nobody can really counter you. Ensuring every weapon doesn't have enough range to allow for this kind of playstyle would make the game more about being able to react faster and flank enemies rather than taking the vantage point and just pin enemies down.



I've never used baller, as I'm not interested in using specials as cheap as it is. Tenta missiles can be used to clear out a base to start a push in clam blitz when used correctly, and these are a suicide button compared to other panic button specials.

Bloblobber is most definitely not overpowered. It requires 4 shots to kill and has the slowest shot velocity in the game. To beat the Bloblobber, try dodging its bullets.

I'd like to take this time to ask what weapons you do play. Knowing the perspective you're coming from will be quite helpful.

"I've never used baller, as I'm not interested in using specials as cheap as it is."

Wow.

 

[Dessgeega]

peeks into the thread

Boy, even after all this time Squidboards hasn't changed at all, huh? Carry on, folks! :D

 

[Saber]

peeks into the thread

Boy, even after all this time Squidboards hasn't changed at all, huh? Carry on, folks! :D

I know right, squid come and go but some things never change

I am going to have to take a neutral ground between you two

1.Weapon variability make the game interesting (and with only shooters and roller) shooters would become the meta pick since they can have better turfing ability and simply put more options like splatterdashing

2.The roller is a low skill ceiling weapon meaning it is pretty easy to learn, and easy to master (there are exceptions like the dynamo and flingza which are more challenging to master)

You can do well with any rollers again since weapons are all viable with the right composition but you need to play smart and even then there are exceptions
I even made a ancient thread dedicated to this idea

Spoiler: Shameless Plug

https://squidboards.com/threads/player-archetypes-in-splatoon.31739/page-4#post-248193

Lastly here is my proposition:
I will check out older games with higher skill ceilings as recommended but in turn go to the back of you weapons page and choose your least picked weapons from there, or the weapons I mentioned I have done so from the beginning and it make the game so fun

It would also help to know what you guys play I am old squid.... I don't remember mains anymore

 

[The Salamander King]

peeks into the thread

Boy, even after all this time Squidboards hasn't changed at all, huh? Carry on, folks! :D

"War, war never changes."

It would also help to know what you guys play I am old squid.... I don't remember mains anymore

I play mostly long-range non-Charger weapons, with a focus on Jet and Explosher, and occasionally midrange Skirmishers.
Custom/Vanilla Jet Squelcher
Custom/Vanilla Explosher
Bloblobber
Sloshing Machine
Splash-O-Matic Neo