Stacking Damage Up on .52 Gal

[Zeriel00]

I don't like to be blunt, but didn't you start off by claiming to be a noob? Your signature says that you're Level 21 and Rank B. Assuming that that's true, don't you think your experience with the game has been a little short for you to be deciding that you already know what works best for the .52? It's only natural to expect that higher-level matches will be different from what you've seen so far. Ink Savers might seem more attractive to you right now, but you might change your mind once you work your way up a bit.

I'm not saying this to belittle you. After all, there are also a few competitive players out there who don't bother using much Damage Up. But at the very least, they've chosen to do so after experiencing higher-level matches for themselves. You haven't had a chance to do that yet. So until then, just keep an open mind, all right?

The uses for Damage Up that have been listed here are all valid (including falloff damage; I can think of at least one high-profile player who went as far as running Damage Up on the .96 back when its 2HKO was guaranteed without Damage Up). However, probably the most important one is countering Defense Up. Needing an extra shot in order to splat your opponent really does have an impact; I've seen competitive players lose matches because of it. That's why players are willing to give up the small, guaranteed benefits of other abilities for the sake of avoiding the much bigger problem of repeatedly losing 1v1's to enemies with Defense Up. If you think you'll be able to get away with using less Damage Up, then go ahead; just know that you're taking a chance by doing so.

I did say I was a noob, but this is not rocket science, all the results are documented and laid down by numbers and graphics. I have also played almost exclusively the .52 and tested damage ups for hours and even then this is very clear cut.

I understand everything you said and we both have said the same thing like 4 times now, so I don't want to mention it again, I will only say this:

Do you think is worth it to sacrifice half of your skill slots for the off chance that your opponent runs a ton of defense and you maybe get that one extra shot?
if so then Go ahead! more power to you! that's great!

My Personal opinion is that it's not worth it because just like that one extra shot may get you a kill, running speed may help you get a kill by strafing, or swimming speed could save your life, run away and do a game winning play! It's all situational! but in the .52s case you get NO other benefit to your special or sub weapons you only get an extra shot MAYBE if your opponent stacks defense ups. The increased fall off damage is so minimal that it's the same as walking a few steps forward, something you can do faster with Run Speed.

I got tired of discussing the same thing so this is my last reply to this subject. You can run whatever works for you, but for me, it's more practical to run skills that always help you no matter the situation. If a guy stacks defense then I'll just out maneuver him with my speed, I won't risk my whole build just for that one guy that may or may not appear. An S+ MLG Korean pro can run all Damage ups if he wants I still don't think it's the best thing to do and I wont.

 

[MrL1193]

I'm not claiming you haven't tested Damage Up on the .52 Gal yourself. What I'm saying is that you're not testing it in the same environment as the players who use and recommend Damage Up.

It's not at all surprising to me that you wouldn't encounter many Defense Up users in B ranks, because in those ranks, players often haven't had enough time with the game to craft specific builds, making ability stacking more difficult for them. It's not the same way once you get to S and S+ ranks (and here, I speak under the assumption that you will get there eventually). Defense Up Tentateks and .52's are much more common there, and those players aren't as easily thrown off by such things as Run Speed--much less on the .52, which has only mediocre base strafing speed.

So until you get there, I don't think it's really appropriate to make blanket statements about how Damage Up is rarely helpful. Just wait and see for yourself what other players are using in higher ranks; then you can assert your opinion.

 

[Zeriel00]

I'm not claiming you haven't tested Damage Up on the .52 Gal yourself. What I'm saying is that you're not testing it in the same environment as the players who use and recommend Damage Up.

It's not at all surprising to me that you wouldn't encounter many Defense Up users in B ranks, because in those ranks, players often haven't had enough time with the game to craft specific builds, making ability stacking more difficult for them. It's not the same way once you get to S and S+ ranks (and here, I speak under the assumption that you will get there eventually). Defense Up Tentateks and .52's are much more common there, and those players aren't as easily thrown off by such things as Run Speed--much less on the .52, which has only mediocre base strafing speed.

So until you get there, I don't think it's really appropriate to make blanket statements about how Damage Up is rarely helpful. Just wait and see for yourself what other players are using in higher ranks; then you can assert your opinion.

I will never use Damage up and I guess we'll both have to learn to live with this decision LOL

 

[MrL1193]

Some people just have to learn things themselves, I suppose... Off you go then. I guess I know what to wear if I ever play against you. :P

 

[Hitzel]

Noob here,
but I don't see how running so many damage ups is beneficial when both Splash Wall and Killer Wail don't benefit from them.
I think more than one sub is situational, what if you don't encounter any defense users? that's a lot of wasted slots...

At the highest levels of play there is almost always at least one defense-stacked player. We're talking heavy amounts like 1 main 9 subs, 2 mains 8 subs, etc. Defense is an important part of the game and an important part of team building, and if you run an aggressive weapon weak to defense you are going to get hunted down by those tanks.

In addition, stacking damage prevents fall-off damage from preventing your 2-shots, and from a teambuilding perspective it makes it easier for your teammates to run builds that kill quicker with the amount of damage you're putting into enemies. And of course the damage helps you win wall duels.

Crudely put, stacking damage on some weapons like the 52 simply makes it so that if you shoot someone, they just simply die. This doesn't seem elegant until you hit someone twice and they live - something that happens every game unless you stack damage.

 

[Zeriel00]

Stacking defense up according to this thread xD

 

[Hitzel]

You're the one who asked for it =P

@Zeriel00

To give a useful response, what defense primarily lets you do is target individuals that are weak to defense and assassinate them in 1v1's where you have the HP advantage. You're not going to be absorbing an entire team - we're talking about a tank, not a wall. Those are two different things.

*edit*

At the risk of sounding rude, the proper response to something like your "I'll never use damage" comment is to link Sirlin:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

 

[Zeriel00]

You're the one who asked for it =P

@Zeriel00

At the risk of sounding rude, the proper response to something like your "I'll never use damage" comment is to link Sirlin:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

So you're calling me a scrub because I don't like using Damage up? ok
Have fun being an elitist I'll just continue enjoying the game using the skills
I like to use because I play this game for fun, crazy I know

 

[MrL1193]

So you're calling me a scrub because I don't like using Damage up? ok
Have fun being an elitist I'll just continue enjoying the game using the skills
I like to use because I play this game for fun, crazy I know

A scrub is a person who refuses to use a certain tactic despite knowing that it is advantageous. That's exactly what you're doing at this point. You started off by trying to argue logically, but now, you're just jamming your fingers in your ears and yelling "I'm not using Damage Up, and you can't make me! Even if it turns out that you guys are right, I'll still never use it, because I do what I want!" That kind of mentality can only hurt you, not anyone else.

 

[Hitzel]

So you're calling me a scrub because I don't like using Damage up? ok
Have fun being an elitist I'll just continue enjoying the game using the skills
I like to use because I play this game for fun, crazy I know

I answered your questions and offered you useful advice. No need to throw insults (or imply that I'm not having fun lol).

Going to bow out of this thread now, have fun!

 

[Zeriel00]

A scrub is a person who refuses to use a certain tactic despite knowing that it is advantageous. That's exactly what you're doing at this point. You started off by trying to argue logically, but now, you're just jamming your fingers in your ears and yelling "I'm not using Damage Up, and you can't make me! Even if it turns out that you guys are right, I'll still never use it, because I do what I want!" That kind of mentality can only hurt you, not anyone else.

I already told you logically why I chose not to stack Damage ups, I thought it would help others to see different ways of play style but
you have to come and shove your way of playing on me like I have to play the way you tell me to? and if not then you call me names?
what are you 12? I play this game how I want to because I play to have fun. Nobody's paying me money to play Splatoon, I'm not going to
any tournaments and I couldn't care less about your rank. If you want to be elitists and insult other people then at least find a real hobby
that you can excel at, not a stupid kids game on your Wii U.

Grow up, being good at Splatoon is no license to be an *** to others

 

[Mr. 9]

Stacking defense up according to this thread xD

First of all, that video is just funny, thanks for the laugh.

I think it’s important to remember that someone’s experience with the .52, and its various build possibilities, will naturally depend on the rank that they play in. I have no doubt that in B rank, you don’t run into health stackers. Given that’s the case it’s natural to select abilities other than strength up for your build since you’ll almost always get the 2HKO. So as far as B rank goes, I agree with your sentiments. In fact, I used similar builds to the ones you described in that rank.

However, in S and (especially) S+ health stack builds are nearly an every match thing (for me at least). Plus everyone’s skill is significantly improved, meaning if you don’t get the 2HKO then you run a much higher risk of getting splatted yourself before you get off the third shot. So for someone in S or S+ (i.e., the original poster), I think that @Hitzel and @MrL1193 have made some very important points which I also very much agree with. Personally, I play 1 main and 3 subs of strength for the .52 in S+ and let the chips fall where they may.

So basically I think that the virtue of .52 strength stacking is probably rank dependent, and it’s nice to hear from all sides on the issue.

 

[flc]

Nobody's paying me money to play Splatoon, I'm not going to
any tournaments and I couldn't care less about your rank. If you want to be elitists and insult other people then at least find a real hobby
that you can excel at, not a stupid kids game on your Wii U.

normal hobbies are boring m8, it's all been done before.

if anything, the novelty of a new videogame makes reverse engineering them a more worthwhile hobby than any of the usual noise, at least for me

while evidently you don't care about being good--as is your prerogative--I'd recommend learning about the team that developed this game and what their goals were in doing so before writing it off as "a stupid kids game". the developers are avid old school fps players who wanted to make something accessible; the whole reason you're (presumably) enjoying this game is because they used their knowledge in their "fake" hobby that they excelled at to build a game that exposes newcomers to fps nuances while also not excluding them by doing so. the game's bright and colourful, but it has some of the best fps mechanics out of any popular title in recent years (at least in terms of movement), so it appeals to the competitive demographic as well. should they have found "a real hobby", or are "fake" hobbies ok in this scenario?

more to the point, the damage/defence tradeoff is way overblown. the reason you use these skills is for handling falloff damage, which is a consistent part of the game. damage lets you maintain shots to kill count at longer range (and it happens to help against defence users). defence lets you survive more easily when you're retreating, because the falloff is less likely to kill you.

shots to kill is a very important part of assessing a weapon, but that's because mobility in this game allows you to reliably dodge incoming fire (at least to the degree that you strafe around the incoming torrent). defence increases shots to kill and damage maintains it, while run/swim lowers the number of shots you will take. they're all means to the same end.

 

[birdiebee]

I disagree with the notion that not wanting to use a certain build despite knowing its advantages makes you a scrub. It doesn't.

I don't run damage up, nor do I have any urge to. Then again I play with Splat Jr, not .52.
But yes, in S+ play, I see a lot of Tentateks and Octoshots stacking Defense. I know, because I lose 1v1s against them a lot.
But you learn how to deal with them. Damage Up isnt the end-all counter to a Defense stacked shooter. Stealth, sub weapons and surprise attacks are just as important. However again this is coming from a Jr main who doesn't play aggressively until I've got my Bubbler, so I guess that makes me a little scrubby by default. Oh well, I still win. fight me