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Weapons that Completely Replace Others

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by The Salamander King, May 31, 2018.

  1. MindWanderer

    MindWanderer Inkling Commander

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    It's because of the kit. The main reason to use the Jr. is to cover turf and spam Ink Armor. That's the main role of the '85 as well, except it has better range and a faster TTK.
     
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  2. Metasepia

    Metasepia Inkling Cadet

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    I would say that the Splat Roller>Carbon Deco for the main fact that the Splat is just much more consistent in it's killing power where as the Deco NEEDS the Burst Bombs to actually accomplish any assassination attempt.

    Personally, I would also put Enperries=Octo Shot (or TTek) The Octo has better killing power with it's sub and main weapon but it has it's 210p requirement for Inkjet, while the Enperries get a sub that emphasizes the main weapon's mobility as well as a lower special cost with a main weapon that can paint with ease.
     
  3. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    I think it'd be better to compare weapons that provide the same role but one is basically made redundant because the other is better in (almost) every aspect.
    Splash Neo and Aero MG are hard to compare, as Splash is more focused as an aggressive frontline and the other is 100% map control. The kits, playstyle and weapons themselves are vastly different. Comparing Aero MG with N-Zap '85 is a lot more valid, as the weapons share bombs and a supporting playstyle and N-Zap can actually kill on top of painting the map really well.

    That being said, i'm surprised nobody pulled the idea of which kit is better. Sorella Undercover beats vUC in just about every aspect, likewise with Golden Dynamo beating the Silver one in synergy.
     
  4. ThatOneGuy

    ThatOneGuy Inkling Commander

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    Most of those are pretty obvious imo

    Like Custom Jet > Vanilla Jet
    Custom Jet has a much more versatile sub that helps it up close. The stingray also resonates well with an anchor playstyle, as it can stay back and defend objectives easily.

    Vanilla Jet's Toxic Mist doesn't help it one bit up close, and tentamissles are extremely inconsistent. Which just makes vanilla jet a very passive weapon with it's slow time to kill compared to other shooters.
    or H-3 D > Vanilla H-3
    H-3 D can pull off: Support, Anchor, and Frontline playstyles with it's suction bomb to zone out enemies and to grab it some extra turf. Ink armor makes it a great support for it's team and allows it to push up more while it's active.

    Vanilla H-3 has point sensor, which is okay, but it's not scaring anyone off of an objective or causing them to reroute. Tentamissles can help zone the enemy, but again, they're rather inconsistent and only good against teams who group up too close.

    It's usually the kit with tentamissles that ends up being worse lol

    But I could see some interesting debate with this topic, like Vanilla Heavy vs Heavy Deco, or Vanilla Sloshing Machine vs Sloshing Machine neo.

    And there is a thread that has compared vanilla mini to zink mini.
    Mini or Zimi Debate
     
  5. Metasepia

    Metasepia Inkling Cadet

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    From what I've seen, I think that the V Heavy is preferred to the Deco variant. The main reason is due to Stingray which, as you stated with C Jet, defines it's role as an anchor/defense weapon, and better compliments the weapon instead of Bubbles. Sprinkler, while nerfed still provides a little painting for areas V Heavy isn't focusing on. But don't get me wrong, Heavy Deco is the best defensive Clam Blitz weapon, (even though a majority of ppl hate it lol) and it's Splash wall buff allows it to play a little more aggressively, and it can pop bubbles like no weapon's business. (Except for fully charged Hydra and post roll Dapples.)
     
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  6. Euxis

    Euxis Inkling

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    That's not how it works. You simply cant say that one weapon replaced the other. Foil squeezer doesnt replace Splattershot pro because the pro has more range and accuracy. The foil squeezer is only as long as the pro when in shooting mode. In painting mode, the squeezer is way more inaccurate and shorter than the pro.
     
  7. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    First off:
    I hope this is a joke.

    And now the rest.
    I mostly compare weapons with both similar kits and role on a team. I like your Luna<Blaster comparison. I can't compare Sploosh to Dapples they don't have similar kits and they don't play a similar role. Dapples are like Splash and Aerospray; close range support weapons that can paint and spam bomb rush, as well as kill fairly well. Sploosh is much more of a flanking/sharking slayer, which is why I compare it to Roller (and they have the same kit).

    Slosher took over the Baller spam role that Aero had, albeit with a little less spam, but it makes up for it because it can also kill fairly well.

    Jet and Rapid Pro have almost the same range, almost the same kit, and almost the same painting ability (Inkstorm). The reason Rapid Pro is better is because it can kill much better than Jet, not requiring line of sight and also trapping people with indirects, as they paint under their feet. High level teams and player have realized the insane killing potential of the thing with it's AOE, which is why it's top tier, as well as better than Jet.
    Vanilla Jet and Custom don't play the same role and don't have similar kits either. VJS is much more support oriented, with Missiles and Mist to asist allies in getting kills. CJS is a pure backliner with Stingray.

    That is how I'm comparing them. Splash Neo and Silver Aero are both bomb rush spammers, but Splash paints better, has a better special, and can kill much better.

    I think that's all, but honestly who knows.

    And also, Explosher<Heavy Deco (exceptions on certain maps)
     
  8. Flopps

    Flopps Inkling Commander

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    Would the Ballpoint replace the Hydra? It has better strafing, painting, and close-combat attacks.

    I feel like Explosher could replace something, but I don't know what. However, seeing how unique it is, it might not replace anything at all.
     
  9. Euxis

    Euxis Inkling

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    I was never joking in the first place. Most of these weapons can perform just as good as the ones they are being compared to. Also depends on how you play the weapon.
     
  10. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    Splash doesn't paint better, Aero does. Aero has a wider spread and similar range, allowing it to glaze more turf in quicker time. It's special also spreads more ink than suctions. The difference isn't big,but there you go. It still has that small edge going for it.

    They are both wildly different weapons with different playstyles, that comparison is hardly fair.
    And putting exceptions on it should disqualify it immediately. It should completely replace said weapon, not partially or situationally.
     
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  11. Saber

    Saber Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Explosher is kinda werid kmcuz it doesn't fully replace anything to a full extent if I had to take a guess it would likely replace
    It would be Foil squeezer or sloshing machine

    I say foil squeezer formost cuz it is a long range backline weapon that biggest boon is lacking coverage, whereas despite lacking speed the exoplosher can easily cover and suport better at long ranges.

    I would say the sloashing machine (specifically the neo) but this is only a situational since they have very different roles in a match so it can replace it if you team need the range and splash damage while keeping good coverage
     
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  12. The Salamander King

    The Salamander King Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    I'm responding to both of these with the same comment. Here are the raw stats: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WnSDbSja9lar_VHZ89r_ix2mFk1KYsony2k71xtZDBc/edit#gid=0
    When I had checked them last (~2 months ago) Splash had a higher painting stat than Aero, and it seems it has been adjusted slightly. The Splash still is only 1.3 less, and everything else about the weapon is superior. Faster killtime, more range, much better at combat in general, and a special that isn't only useful on 1 map.

    As for Forge and Foil Squeezer, Squeezer basically has the same kit (arguably better because Splat Bombs are faster and maneuverable), the same killtime, longer range, 100% accuracy, and better painting because of the full-auto mode They both mainly play the "midrange support bubbles" role and Foil is just better in every way.

    The reason I compare Eplosher and Heavy Deco. They both play the "backline bubbles" role, and have almost the same range (about 2 small inkling steps of longer range on Explosher). Explosher works better on lumpier maps, but Heavy Deco paints and kills MUCH faster on flat maps, as well as being able to better protect itself at close range.
     
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  13. Flopps

    Flopps Inkling Commander

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    But the fact that there are exceptions to Heavy Deco being better should make it not better in the first place. The whole point of this is to see which weapons completely outclass the other, so if the Heavy Deco can't do that, then I don't think it should be a viable outclassing.

    Besides, there isn't a map without walls, so Heavy Deco isn't better than Explosher.
     
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  14. Euxis

    Euxis Inkling

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    You compare the explosher and heavy deco on two different types of maps. What about heavy deco on lumpy maps? And explosher on flat maps? From my experience, there is a way to protect yourself at close range. Although it isnt much, all you have to do is aim at the ground. The explosher is a new weapon, so maybe people will find a way for close range combat.

    As for the foil and forge, suction bombs make up for its longer detonation time by having a larger radius. These two weapons are hard to compare because the squeezer has two modes. I'm running out of arguments for the forge, but I still like these weapons equally. Each has there own flaws, but something with the weapon (ex. being that forge does slightly more damage even though being slightly shorter than squeezed) make up for these.
     
  15. MINKUKEL

    MINKUKEL Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Splat Bombs and Suction Bombs both have their advantages and disadvantages. You can't say Foil is better than Forge based on that.

    Plus, the spread of the SS Pro and the fact you don't have to mash the ZR button continuously are things the SS Pro has over the Squeezer as well. The Squeezer has more precision and a bit more range.

    Heavy Splatling Deco and Explosher both have quite some range and use the Bubble Blower. That's literally the only things they have in common. Calling them similar because they're both 'backline bubble blowers' is a gross simplicifaction.
     
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