What sub weapon reworks do you want to see?

[chaotik0]

I’ll start with sprinkler because i think it’s the worst sub in the game, i even think line marker is better.

i want to see sprinkler’s paint speed significantly increase. right now, its only helpful to slightly build up special at a pretty slowly. but, if it painted much faster, you can place it down and not only does it paint for special faster (although it doesn't matter that much since i gives you the same amount) but you also have an actual area of paint around you to use. kind if like a big burst bomb but not instantaneous. this also would make the cost and decay actually make sense because it can temporarily make up for not having a lot of paint around you or your shooter being down or in a different place, and if it was able to constantly paint your feet super quickly forever that would be a bit much. the only other thing is the health should be increased a bit so enemies actually have to take time to shoot it down, also the object shredder thing needs to be changed because thats just ridiculous (but very funny tbh). imagine a dynamo being able to quickly have paint to work with around itself, or an sblast. this also wouldnt be broken on tetras since they dont really care about enemy ink much anyway. this could also be used to paint for teammates as well so it could actually be a much more supportive tool rather than something that supports yourself by kinda helping special build up slowly.

the only problem i see is that if it does help special output too much the pencil soda weapon will be even more annoying. thats mostly a problem with pencil and cooler but still. im hoping that even though it paints for special quickly, the ink cost makes up for the main weapon being able to paint a lot and you would have to throw it again for it to start painting more which costs more ink again.

 

[cipsbsndj]

Angle Shooter needs more of a reward for hitting a direct with it, because the 40 damage can be hard to follow up on, depending on the weapon. If when you hit a direct with a line marker, it should mark opponents for as long as a Point Sensor, maybe slightly longer due to how much more difficult it is to hit an angle marker direct.

The line the follows the marker could also use the extra utility, and a lot of people have suggested that the line should do some damage to an opponent when they run into it, and I agree. The line should work like a Wave Breaker that does less damage, you can only get damaged by the line once per marker. I feel like those changes could go a long way in giving the sub weapon some more utility outside of just purely locating people, if you land you shot.

 

[QuagSass]

I think they should just remove the decay entirely. Like Sprinkler was fine in S1. The worst part of Sprinkler is just having to replace it every 5 seconds imo. I wish I could just put it in an annoying spot and leave it there.

Just give me S1 Sprinkler but with S3 ink cost (why was it 80% back then, that's like the only thing they should've changed)

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I think they should just remove the decay entirely. Like Sprinkler was fine in S1. The worst part of Sprinkler is just having to replace it every 5 seconds imo. I wish I could just put it in an annoying spot and leave it there.

Just give me S1 Sprinkler but with S3 ink cost (why was it 80% back then, that's like the only thing they should've changed)

This, and making it take more than 2 shots to remove. Sheldon obviously thinks it's supposed to be a distraction for enemies to shoot down, so let's make it actually do that.

 

[chaotik0]

I think they should just remove the decay entirely. Like Sprinkler was fine in S1. The worst part of Sprinkler is just having to replace it every 5 seconds imo. I wish I could just put it in an annoying spot and leave it there.

Just give me S1 Sprinkler but with S3 ink cost (why was it 80% back then, that's like the only thing they should've changed)

maybe it would be fine like that, this idea was mainly trying to make sprinkler something that actually did something cool instead of just paint for special or just be an inconvenience in a small area

not trying to say your idea is bad in fact if they buff sprinkler that is probably exactly what they would do

 

[QuagSass]

maybe it would be fine like that, this idea was mainly trying to make sprinkler something that actually did something cool instead of just paint for special or just be an inconvenience in a small area

not trying to say your idea is bad in fact if they buff sprinkler that is probably exactly what they would do

That's fair. I personally dont think Sprinkler needs to be more than that. It's an excellent sub weapon as is for backline weapons (minus the decay) The issue is that they keep putting it on weapons that dont care for/need it's utility and so the poor sprinkler gets a bad rep because of that. Oh how I wish some of the weapons I play had Sprinkler. I can't play Heavy Splatling Deco because everytime I try to, I just end up missing having Sprinkler on it.

Also I wasn't trying to say that your idea was bad either. I think reworking Sprinkler is a fun thought exercise.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

maybe it would be fine like that, this idea was mainly trying to make sprinkler something that actually did something cool instead of just paint for special or just be an inconvenience in a small area

I really like this idea, but putting that much paint on the ground quickly would probably be broken tbh

not trying to say your idea is bad in fact if they buff sprinkler that is probably exactly what they would do

I don't think they'll give sprinkler its infinite duration back. It's what they should do, but Nintendo very rarely goes back on changes like that

 

[chaotik0]

That's fair. I personally dont think Sprinkler needs to be more than that. It's an excellent sub weapon as is for backline weapons (minus the decay) The issue is that they keep putting it on weapons that dont care for/need it's utility and so the poor sprinkler gets a bad rep because of that. Oh how I wish some of the weapons I play had Sprinkler. I can't play Heavy Splatling Deco because everytime I try to, I just end up missing having Sprinkler on it.

Also I wasn't trying to say that your idea was bad either. I think reworking Sprinkler is a fun thought exercise.

light tetras :( (i probably would have dropped stamper immediately if it got a good sub)
sblast also suffers with it although it got a bad special anyway
vbrella got it but strikes are meh on it anyway

the weapon that has sprinkler, benefits from it more than any other weapon in the game, and encourages its terrible play style is THE PENCIL!!!!!!! AAAAAAA

 

[isaac4]

light tetras :( (i probably would have dropped stamper immediately if it got a good sub)
sblast also suffers with it although it got a bad special anyway
vbrella got it but strikes are meh on it anyway

the weapon that has sprinkler, benefits from it more than any other weapon in the game, and encourages its terrible play style is THE PENCIL!!!!!!! AAAAAAA

They'll buff sprinkler and leave Pencil as it is next patch just wait

 

[chaotik0]

I really like this idea, but putting that much paint on the ground quickly would probably be broken tbh


I don't think they'll give sprinkler its infinite duration back. It's what they should do, but Nintendo very rarely goes back on changes like that

yeah thats why they need to put it on weapons that 1: will like it and 2: won’t be able to abuse it for getting infinite specials, like sblast and dynamo
v96 and especially tri stringer would mostly use it on their teammates probably
also i was hoping the high cost (still 70%) and therefore low spammability would make it not that bad

also you are right, they could just keep giving random buffs that don’t do anything :(

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I do think those "nothing" buffs are good things. Like, if you play those weapons, you're probably going to feel the difference and it's going to feel really nice. The issue is that for the most part, those are the only changes.

 

[missingno]

Point Sensor and Toxic Mist should get a bonus for hitting a direct with the thrown projectile. Giving them a skillshot aspect would be the most fun way to buff them.

For Point Sensor, I guess the only real effect you could give it would be extended duration. I also have to acknowledge there's a bit of an irony in that aiming for a direct means you already know where the opponent is, but I don't think this needs to be a particularly huge or impactful buff anyway. Point Sensor isn't the worst sub, I think this is okay enough for it.

As for Mist, the first idea that comes to mind is a Disruptor effect, but that might be too powerful. Perhaps an alternative idea could be having it drain some of the target's ink tank.

 

[vitellary]

the important thing to remember about sprinklers when reworking them is that the decay does exist for a reason, namely that if a comp doesn't really have range then an enemy can put a sprinkler in a position that's impossible to reach, and there's nothing the team could do about it; it discourages doing that since it means you need to replace it in order for maintaining an annoying position to do anything. if we rework sprinkler, i think it's important that it still has some reason that that strategy is less effective. i think the original sprinkler rework proposal in this thread still keeps that solution which is nice, but just removing its decay isn't a great idea i think

my own idea for a sprinkler rework was to make it so that it does better damage (30/bullet instead of 20) and paints better, but has falloff that makes its damage and paint worse than default. this makes it so a close-range sprinkler has more control over an area, buffing what i think is the best aspect of its concept (helping hold an area for a long period of time), while making the strategy of perching it up somewhere no-one can reach work worse (not that it necessarily needs to be nerfed, but it's just not a particularly interesting strategy i think). with this i think you could then remove the decay rate too since players are encouraged to go for more aggressive sprinkler positions which makes it so you can take care of them yourself if you win control over that area

 

[chaotik0]

the important thing to remember about sprinklers when reworking them is that the decay does exist for a reason, namely that if a comp doesn't really have range then an enemy can put a sprinkler in a position that's impossible to reach, and there's nothing the team could do about it; it discourages doing that since it means you need to replace it in order for maintaining an annoying position to do anything. if we rework sprinkler, i think it's important that it still has some reason that that strategy is less effective. i think the original sprinkler rework proposal in this thread still keeps that solution which is nice, but just removing its decay isn't a great idea i think

my own idea for a sprinkler rework was to make it so that it does better damage (30/bullet instead of 20) and paints better, but has falloff that makes its damage and paint worse than default. this makes it so a close-range sprinkler has more control over an area, buffing what i think is the best aspect of its concept (helping hold an area for a long period of time), while making the strategy of perching it up somewhere no-one can reach work worse (not that it necessarily needs to be nerfed, but it's just not a particularly interesting strategy i think). with this i think you could then remove the decay rate too since players are encouraged to go for more aggressive sprinkler positions which makes it so you can take care of them yourself if you win control over that area

yeah thats what i said in the post
also yeah the damage increase but falloff could work
i said to have faster fire rate and keep the decay because then it could be used to control its are much better and it could still be used to like camp a super jump or throw at someone and it has more shots to possibly deal chip damage to them and paint their feet at the same time or something but cant do it forever

kind if like a big burst bomb but not instantaneous. this also would make the cost and decay actually make sense because it can temporarily make up for not having a lot of paint around you or your shooter being down or in a different place, and if it was able to constantly paint your feet super quickly forever that would be a bit much.

i was hoping that making the area control better (faster painting + more health) while keeping the decay and ink cost would be good enough to make the annoying spot to shoot down so now i get to paint this place forever not as good

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

the important thing to remember about sprinklers when reworking them is that the decay does exist for a reason, namely that if a comp doesn't really have range then an enemy can put a sprinkler in a position that's impossible to reach, and there's nothing the team could do about it; it discourages doing that since it means you need to replace it in order for maintaining an annoying position to do anything. if we rework sprinkler, i think it's important that it still has some reason that that strategy is less effective. i think the original sprinkler rework proposal in this thread still keeps that solution which is nice, but just removing its decay isn't a great idea i think

What if the mid-power phase lasted forever instead of the low-power phase?

my own idea for a sprinkler rework was to make it so that it does better damage (30/bullet instead of 20) and paints better, but has falloff that makes its damage and paint worse than default. this makes it so a close-range sprinkler has more control over an area, buffing what i think is the best aspect of its concept (helping hold an area for a long period of time), while making the strategy of perching it up somewhere no-one can reach work worse (not that it necessarily needs to be nerfed, but it's just not a particularly interesting strategy i think). with this i think you could then remove the decay rate too since players are encouraged to go for more aggressive sprinkler positions which makes it so you can take care of them yourself if you win control over that area

Falloff doesn't change paint output iirc. The funny sprinkler spots wouldn't really get worse from this change, so I think removing the decay entirely isn't a good idea if we're worried about that strategy.

 

[vitellary]

i was hoping that making the area control better (faster painting + more health) while keeping the decay and ink cost would be good enough to make the annoying spot to shoot down so now i get to paint this place forever not as good

yeah i like your idea a lot too, i don't think either of our ideas are better than the other, they're just different. which is cool! goes to show there's a lot of ways they could make this sub better if they just tried lol

Falloff doesn't change paint output iirc. The funny sprinkler spots wouldn't really get worse from this change, so I think removing the decay entirely isn't a good idea if we're worried about that strategy.

my idea would be a different implementation that does affect how much the bullets paint, it'd have to be specially made for it but i'd imagine it would definitely be possible and probably easy to code

 

[OnePotWonder]

Okay, hear me out: Reducing the paint radius of every single bomb. Severely. This will make sprinkler much better by comparison.

Also an old idea for Toxic Mist; reducing the size of the cloud but making it linger on opponents who leave it for a few seconds. A sort of hybrid between current Toxic Mist and Disruptor.

For Curling Bomb, 45 contact damage. The curling combos would go crazy.

Lastly, Angle Shooter. First and foremost, a longer tripwire duration. Longer tracking duration on a direct hit and 45 damage would be nice buffs. As for reworking it, I don't actually agree with the trail doing damage. I think it makes more sense for the trail to paint a narrow line on the floor below it. Also having the sub pierce opponents.

 

[chaotik0]

yeah i like your idea a lot too, i don't think either of our ideas are better than the other, they're just different. which is cool! goes to show there's a lot of ways they could make this sub better if they just tried lol

so many ways to buff the sub yet they will only choose the ways that don’t actually make it good or more fun ):

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

so many ways to buff the sub yet they will only choose the ways that don’t actually make it good or more fun ):

I think this video is really insightful and it lines up with why the patches seem to do so little. I'd say more but the video explains it pretty well

 

[chaotik0]

Okay, hear me out: Reducing the paint radius of every single bomb. Severely. This will make sprinkler much better by comparison.

Also an old idea for Toxic Mist; reducing the size of the cloud but making it linger on opponents who leave it for a few seconds. A sort of hybrid between current Toxic Mist and Disruptor.

For Curling Bomb, 45 contact damage. The curling combos would go crazy.

Lastly, Angle Shooter. First and foremost, a longer tripwire duration. Longer tracking duration on a direct hit and 45 damage would be nice buffs. As for reworking it, I don't actually agree with the trail doing damage. I think it makes more sense for the trail to paint a narrow line on the floor below it. Also having the sub pierce opponents.

i been praying for that curling and mist buff for so long

i do like the idea of nerfing all the bombs, but they did this already when transitioning to splat 3
an alternative i like better is making the weaker subs as good as the bombs, because that’s more fun
but, if we wanted the game to be more about the main weapon then it would make sense to nerf them all again

with line marker the tripwire effect only locating just feels so bad. i don’t think the tripwire lasting longer would fix that, because getting hit by the tripwire doesn’t do anything that it isn’t worth just using another sub for (point sensor, autobomb, torpedo already locate people in an area, so if you had the tripwire bouncing around an area, it would just be tracking it for a time), which can be said about the entire sub. the long range hard to hit direct that doesn’t even line up with your reticle for aiming only does 45 damage, and the tripwire is kind of useless for it to have anyway because the direct is its only decent feature, isn’t used in a way where the tripwire lasting longer does anything actually helpful. sure, maybe the tripwire doesn’t need damage, but right now it does essentially nothing. paint trail is a great idea for that. also i find it funny how the direct hit locates because the only way you can hit someone is if you see them already (unless you ricochet which is ridiculously difficult, i have only hit it like 5 times). also the tripwire is pretty easy to dodge especially since the main (basically only) use for it is getting the direct which usually doesn’t include making the line go in an area people will run through without being seen

sorry for the rant i just hate how comically terrible that sub weapon is and how they refuse to buff it in a way that will actually it good (although all the weapons with it are kinda eh besides slosher and jet, but it doesn’t work that well with jet)
i know this is the first new sub they have added in the while, but they are not trying their best to deal with the issues

when torpedo came out it was busted it started getting changes only after waiting through 1 patch