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You'll see in my post (http://puu.sh/kyMFL/9e0651cdda.png) this screenshot which has an IU tagged player. This was the player I mentioned that decided to 'play later' without being aware of the round timings.
That person was a captain for a Nitnendome-based team, who didn't know what was going on, before I accepted him into IU. He was a leader for a different team. Sorry about that. That team was not IU associated for this tournament.
And TOing is not something you can blow off. Especially when you're also trying to create teams for individuals to play with. That's where it gets difficult.
Yes Blooper Ink.
Proof http://puu.sh/kyRgB/6cc5a5d3a7.png
You can see that Choke Squad gave Squid Box some trouble, and Lemon's Squad gave SSS some trouble, while SSC and BI both lost 3-0.
However, you cannot truly pin this based on one round or tournament result. There can be many factors, mostly regarding players used for this tournament. And by looking at the results both SSC and Blooper Ink both lost 3-0 by their opponents. Choke squad we know is a good clan for having reached the finals of one or more tournaments and SS-S while having a good tournament record has had to run through losers of one tournament at some point but I don't remember lemon's squad doing any damage in previous tournaments (I could be completely wrong here) or SS-C doing damage either (and it's not the first time they faced a division of their own squad in tournament) and as for blooper ink, this is only just the EU division, not the NA group and we're still trying to get into as many tournaments as we can.
Again, not the squads fault here but completely due to poor management on the TO's part.
But anyways, I just don't see why it's plausible to be bashing BI specifically.
It was still uncalled for. Feedback is one thing, but personal insults about appearance is childish and inappropriate.
Also, complaining about top 8 seems really unhelpful. Sometimes people get soft opponents and can run through 6-1 or 5-2. Usually the system balances out and takes into account drops and tiebreakers are calculated to avoid really weird outcomes. But sometimes you get in even though you had an easy path. That doesn't mean they don't deserve to be there.
If you wanted "the best teams" only, then set up an invitational tournament and invite them. As long as these tournaments are open, then expect randoms to sometimes make it into the top 8. This is a good thing as it gives the scene more exposure.
...Elitism is actually bad when it comes to a developing scene...
The real problem is that BI advanced due to improper calculations on the part of challonge. NSTC lost to the 1st and 2nd ranked team respectively, we lost to 1st and 3rd, the other teams in top 8 suffered their losses to the 1-3 teams as well IIRC.
Blooper Ink lost to 7th place and 16th place. They should not have advanced. I said as much to Hank that clearly something was off, and felt really upset that in us requesting that our score be corrected(which put us in top 8) bumped out NSTC, when I felt they deserved to be in it(as they had only lost to spades and TSB, 1 and 2) As far as us going 0-3 top 8, Spades was the best team as evidenced by their championship, so not sure what you want out of us there :o
It is very obvious that BI did not deserve their top 8, and that isn't coming from a perspective of them not being a good team, it is coming from the perspective that they went through on an INCORRECT TB SCORE. This isn't conjecture, all of us can look and see that this was the case, as challonge decided to give callie's best squid and Quetzalcoatl scores of 5 for some unknown reason, giving them a TB score of 3 which was clearly in error. The TOs did not take the correct action in looking over the bracket adequately, and NSTC suffered because of it, they deserve a formal apology in my eyes.
BI historically haven't had a great run. You can see they got knocked out early in both of these tournaments, and BB2 was just a week ago, so I would assume the players would largely similar - Im definitely certain at least 2/4 of BI were the same as last week, probably even 3/4. I'm not saying they're at fault, I'm saying that NTSC would have a greater chance of presenting a challenge to the other people in the top 8. I'm also not saying that a 'no name' team shouldn't be allowed to top 8. When you look at the teams that BI and NSTC played, you can see that BI had a very easy run, playing against only 1 top8 team in the first 7 rounds, while NSTC played against SSS and Squid Box, as well as C- which performed decently in BB2.
I'm not trying to bash BI, I'm saying that their matchups presented them a much easier path to top8 than NSTC had.
And TOing is not something you can blow off. Especially when you're also trying to create teams for individuals to play with. That's where it gets difficult.
If it's a point of difficulty he couldn't handle, why did he offer to do it?
According to the OP, there were 8 people working on the administration of this tournament. I can't say I know how many people TeaMaker had helping him, but I would be very surprised if it was more than 4. Surely one of the 8 people could have spent a bit of time organizing the teamless players into teams.
I'm not blowing off his efforts, I'm saying that you're exaggerating the difficulty and time investment of the task.
No, I get you and I never made excuses. I agree that we got to meet easier teams. Like I already said. We were lucky to lose were we lost. Cause we got easier matchups until the end. We got the good end of this swiss and placed top 8. I also understand our TB was too high and it's hard to say what our real Buchholz would be if the teams actually played, otherwise it would been a straight punish for us if you didn't add more points for teams leaving. We got a good points diff because of the teams we met.
He meant Stan64 on this regard not you, don't worry about it.
Alright. I've seen the results.
However, you cannot truly pin this based on one round or tournament result. There can be many factors, mostly regarding players used for this tournament. And by looking at the results both SSC and Blooper Ink both lost 3-0 by their opponents. Choke squad we know is a good clan for having reached the finals of one or more tournaments and SS-S while having a good tournament record has had to run through losers of one tournament at some point but I don't remember lemon's squad doing any damage in previous tournaments (I could be completely wrong here) or SS-C doing damage either (and it's not the first time they faced a division of their own squad in tournament) and as for blooper ink, this is only just the EU division, not the NA group and we're still trying to get into as many tournaments as we can.
Again, not the squads fault here but completely due to poor management on the TO's part.
But anyways, I just don't see why it's plausible to be bashing BI specifically.
I mean it's obvious that Blooper Ink isn't the caliber of NTSC or the other teams in the top 8, but if you can't see it then I can help.
(I'm talking realistically here, which isn't bashing. Bashing would be severely criticizing blooper ink, which most people on this thread haven't actually done.)
I'll compare Blooper Ink's results to the other teams in the top 8 and NTSC. You can make your own conclusions from there. This is the data I will be using:
Ink or Sink:
1. Squid Squad Spades (3-0's blooper ink | 4-1's Imperious 2)
3. Squid Squad Clubs (only lost to Imperious 2 | 3-0'd Koopa Clan twice and C- once | Beat Imperious 1 3-2)
4. Koopa Clan (lost to Squid Squad Clubs 0-3 twice | 3-0'd DEG)
9. Blooper Ink (3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades | had to drop before match with Imperious 1 due to not enough players)
64.
Salty Splatoon:
1. Squid Squad Spades (3-0's OFFSHORE | beats The Squid Box 4-2 | beats HBSF 4-1)
3. The Squid Box (3-0's HBSF | 4-0's NTSC | loses to Squid Squad Spade
4. Name Subject to Change (3-0's C- | 2-0's C- | 4-0'd by The Squid Box | 2-0'd by HBSF)
10. OFFSHORE (3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades | 2-0'd by HBSF)
13.
Booyah Battle 1:
1. Squid Squad Spades (3-2's Choke Squad | loses 2-3 to Lemon Squad | 3-0's NTSC | 3-2's The Squid Box | 3-1's Lemon Squad | 4-1's Guardian Gaming twice [GG is essentially HBSF + one im2 member])
3. Lemon Squad (3-2's Squid Squad Spades | loses 1-3 to Guardian Gaming | loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Spades)
4. The Squid Box (3-0'd by Guardian gaming | 3-1's Choke Squad | loses 2-3 to Squid Squad Spades)
6. Name Subject to Change (3-0's Blooper Ink EU | 3-0'd by Choke Squad | 3-1's Squid Squad Jokers | 3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades)
7. Choke Squad (3-0's NTSC | loses 2-3 to Squid Squad Spades | loses 1-3 to The Squid Box)
25. Blooper Ink EU (3-0'd by NTSC | loses 2-3 to Green Team)
35.
SCL 1:
2. OFFSHORE (3-0's The Squid Box | 3-0'd by Squid Squad Jokers)
3. The Squid Box (3-0'd by OFFSHORE | 3-1's C- for third place)
16.
SCL 2:
1. Squid Squad Clubs (4-1's The Squid Box 1 | 3-1's Koopa Clan | 4-0's The Squid Box 2)
2. The Squid Box 1 (loses 1-4 to Squid Squad Clubs | 3-0's NTSC | 3-0's C-)
3. The Squid Box 2 (4-0'd by Squid Squad Clubs | 4-0's C-)
8. Name Subject to Change (3-0'd by The Squid Box 1)
12. Koopa Clan (loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Clubs)
Booyah Battle 2:
1. The Squid Box (3-0's OFFSHORE | 3-0's NTSC | 3-1's Lemon Squad | loses 1-3 to Choke Squad | 3-0's Choke Squad)
2. Choke Squad (3-1's The Squid Box | 3-0'd by The Squid Box | 3-2's Squid Squad Clubs | loses 2-3 to Lemon Squad | 3-1's OFFSHORE | 3-1's Lemon Squad)
3. Lemon Squad (loses 1-3 to The Squid Box | 3-2's Choke Squad | 3-2's C- | 3-2's Squid Squad Spades | 3-0's Blooper Ink EU | 3-0's Koopa Clan)
4. Squid Squad Spades (disqualified vs Choke Squad | loses 2-3 to Lemon Squad | 3-1's Squid Squad Clubs | 3-0's Koopa Clan | 3-1's NTSC)
5. Name Subject to Change (3-0'd by The Squid Box | loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Spades)
5. OFFSHORE (3-0'd by The Squid Box | loses 1-3 to Choke Squad | 3-0's C-)
7. Koopa Clan (3-0'd by Lemon Squad | 3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades)
13. Squid Squad Clubs (loses 2-3 to Choke Squad | loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Clubs)
18. Blooper Ink EU (3-0'd by Lemon Squad | 3-0'd by Octarian Legion)
42.
SCL 3:
1. Squid Squad Spades (4-0's NTSC | 4-2's The Squid Box | loses 1-4 to The Squid Box | 4-1's The Squid Box)
2. The Squid Box (3-1's Squid Squad Clubs | loses 2-4 to Squid Squad Spades | 4-1's NTSC | 4-1's Squid Squad Spades | 4-1'd by Squid Squad Spades)
3. Name Subject to Change (4-0'd by Squid Squad Spades | 4-0's Squid Squad Clubs | loses 1-4 to The Squid Box)
4. Squid Squad Clubs ( loses 1-3 to The Squid Box | 4-0'd by NTSC | 3-0's C-)
16.
Nintendome YT Tournament:
1. Squid Squad Spades
2. The Squid Box
3. OFFSHORE
4. Lemon Squad
5. Blooper Ink EU
6. Koopa Clan
7. Choke Squad
8. Squid Squad Clubs
9. Name Subject to Change
can edit nintendome YT stats later but you all know what they are
I mean it's obvious that Blooper Ink isn't the caliber of NTSC or the other teams in the top 8, but if you can't see it then I can help.
(I'm talking realistically here, which isn't bashing. Bashing would be severely criticizing blooper ink, which most people on this thread haven't actually done.)
I'll compare Blooper Ink's results to the other teams in the top 8 and NTSC. You can make your own conclusions from there. This is the data I will be using:
Ink or Sink:
1. Squid Squad Spades (3-0's blooper ink | 4-1's Imperious 2)
3. Squid Squad Clubs (only lost to Imperious 2 | 3-0'd Koopa Clan twice and C- once | Beat Imperious 1 3-2)
4. Koopa Clan (lost to Squid Squad Clubs 0-3 twice | 3-0'd DEG)
9. Blooper Ink (3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades | had to drop before match with Imperious 1 due to not enough players)
64.
Salty Splatoon:
1. Squid Squad Spades (3-0's OFFSHORE | beats The Squid Box 4-2 | beats HBSF 4-1)
3. The Squid Box (3-0's HBSF | 4-0's NTSC | loses to Squid Squad Spade
4. Name Subject to Change (3-0's C- | 2-0's C- | 4-0'd by The Squid Box | 2-0'd by HBSF)
10. OFFSHORE (3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades | 2-0'd by HBSF)
13.
Booyah Battle 1:
1. Squid Squad Spades (3-2's Choke Squad | loses 2-3 to Lemon Squad | 3-0's NTSC | 3-2's The Squid Box | 3-1's Lemon Squad | 4-1's Guardian Gaming twice [GG is essentially HBSF + one im2 member])
3. Lemon Squad (3-2's Squid Squad Spades | loses 1-3 to Guardian Gaming | loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Spades)
4. The Squid Box (3-0'd by Guardian gaming | 3-1's Choke Squad | loses 2-3 to Squid Squad Spades)
6. Name Subject to Change (3-0's Blooper Ink EU | 3-0'd by Choke Squad | 3-1's Squid Squad Jokers | 3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades)
7. Choke Squad (3-0's NTSC | loses 2-3 to Squid Squad Spades | loses 1-3 to The Squid Box)
25. Blooper Ink EU (3-0'd by NTSC | loses 2-3 to Green Team)
35.
SCL 1:
2. OFFSHORE (3-0's The Squid Box | 3-0'd by Squid Squad Jokers)
3. The Squid Box (3-0'd by OFFSHORE | 3-1's C- for third place)
16.
SCL 2:
1. Squid Squad Clubs (4-1's The Squid Box 1 | 3-1's Koopa Clan | 4-0's The Squid Box 2)
2. The Squid Box 1 (loses 1-4 to Squid Squad Clubs | 3-0's NTSC | 3-0's C-)
3. The Squid Box 2 (4-0'd by Squid Squad Clubs | 4-0's C-)
8. Name Subject to Change (3-0'd by The Squid Box 1)
12. Koopa Clan (loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Clubs)
Booyah Battle 2:
1. The Squid Box (3-0's OFFSHORE | 3-0's NTSC | 3-1's Lemon Squad | loses 1-3 to Choke Squad | 3-0's Choke Squad)
2. Choke Squad (3-1's The Squid Box | 3-0'd by The Squid Box | 3-2's Squid Squad Clubs | loses 2-3 to Lemon Squad | 3-1's OFFSHORE | 3-1's Lemon Squad)
3. Lemon Squad (loses 1-3 to The Squid Box | 3-2's Choke Squad | 3-2's C- | 3-2's Squid Squad Spades | 3-0's Blooper Ink EU | 3-0's Koopa Clan)
4. Squid Squad Spades (disqualified vs Choke Squad | loses 2-3 to Lemon Squad | 3-1's Squid Squad Clubs | 3-0's Koopa Clan | 3-1's NTSC)
5. Name Subject to Change (3-0'd by The Squid Box | loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Spades)
5. OFFSHORE (3-0'd by The Squid Box | loses 1-3 to Choke Squad | 3-0's C-)
7. Koopa Clan (3-0'd by Lemon Squad | 3-0'd by Squid Squad Spades)
13. Squid Squad Clubs (loses 2-3 to Choke Squad | loses 1-3 to Squid Squad Clubs)
18. Blooper Ink EU (3-0'd by Lemon Squad | 3-0'd by Octarian Legion)
42.
SCL 3:
1. Squid Squad Spades (4-0's NTSC | 4-2's The Squid Box | loses 1-4 to The Squid Box | 4-1's The Squid Box)
2. The Squid Box (3-1's Squid Squad Clubs | loses 2-4 to Squid Squad Spades | 4-1's NTSC | 4-1's Squid Squad Spades | 4-1'd by Squid Squad Spades)
3. Name Subject to Change (4-0'd by Squid Squad Spades | 4-0's Squid Squad Clubs | loses 1-4 to The Squid Box)
4. Squid Squad Clubs ( loses 1-3 to The Squid Box | 4-0'd by NTSC | 3-0's C-)
16.
Nintendome YT Tournament:
1. Squid Squad Spades
2. The Squid Box
3. OFFSHORE
4. Lemon Squad
5. Blooper Ink EU
6. Koopa Clan
7. Choke Squad
8. Squid Squad Clubs
9. Name Subject to Change
can edit nintendome YT stats later but you all know what they are
Nothing against BI, but I think we already knew that. It was a technical glitch in the system. I don't think it really could have been avoided. We just need to catch Challonge's attention on this one.
Nothing against BI, but I think we already knew that. It was a technical glitch in the system. I don't think it really could have been avoided. We just need to catch Challonge's attention on this one.
What are the TOs going to do? I think Hank was telling me that he's been looking into it and there's no way to manually change anything.
We know what the problem was, and there's not much to do about it right now other than make sure teams don't drop.
Just be open to swiss again in the future. I don't think that this is a good representation. But when it comes down to it, we learned from this. That's all it is. Let's make it better next time.
What are the TOs going to do? I think Hank was telling me that he's been looking into it and there's no way to manually change anything.
We know what the problem was, and there's not much to do about it right now other than make sure teams don't drop.
Just be open to swiss again in the future. I don't think that this is a good representation. But when it comes down to it, we learned from this. That's all it is. Let's make it better next time.
*This is just a rough explanation and not a final version.*
I don't want tourneys only for the top teams. I want a split tourney where say the top 16 play in one bracket and the bottom 16 play in another. The winner of the bottom 16 is seeded in the top 16 next tournament and the last place finisher of the top 16 moves down. This allows the top players to play against other top players instead of rolling over the weaker teams. It also allows the weaker teams to play against each other and thus get more practice and experience that they don't currently get. They also have a chance of moving up into the top 16 by doing well. I get that it can sound elitist but I can't imagine the weaker teams like getting steamrolled and I know that I personally don't like steamrolling over them.
I think we're almost at the point where invitational tournaments can happen. For example, invite the top 12 on SPR (minus Imperious and DEG, plus 4chan and Choke Squad), and hold an open qualifier to select the last 4 spots.
