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Flareth

Inkling Fleet Admiral
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
623
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In the Paradox of Spring
Ah, gotcha. I had a feeling that's what you were getting at, but I wasn't certain. Then again my brain's at <50% functionality.

Well, it's not like we have anything better to do, besides bitching about our teammates and Splatfests. There could be more, but I imagine most of the people that would be interested in talking about Splatoon already do so on Miiverse or Gamefaqs or somewhere else. And so we'll (they'll) continue to work out the game's matchmaking system all the way until Squidboards dies.

Besides, it's not like the moderators are ever around enough to enforce any of the rules, let alone tell people to stay on-topic. (On the other hand, this is a pretty laid-back & drama-free board, so I suppose it's not necessary.)
 

birdiebee

Inkling Commander
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394
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Tokyo, Japan
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birdiebee
Yeah, I totally don't mind it or anything. You guys are good squiddos. I love the environment of this board, chill 2 da max.
 

BlackZero

Inkling Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
350
I've taken the matchmaking issue we've discussed before, where it creates repeatedly imbalanced teams, pretty seriously. And I have constantly reexamined my perspective on it. Have you done the the same, or have you remained convinced Splatoon uses Elo and all experiences can be explained within that framework?
You should be well aware that I have. Remember when I first thought it was TrueSkill? That turned out to be inaccurate. So I changed my thinking and suggested it built a 3D bell curve and matched that up to other players. That didn't accurately explain it either, so I looked through different matchmaking systems and found one that best matched up with everyone's observations of how matchmaking worked. I've said all along that Splatoon doesn't use a pure form of Elo, but a bastardized one.

So yes, I do think everyone's matchmaking experience can be explained with an distorted Elo system. The game assembles a lobby of random players in TW, or random players within a specific rank range, then assigns them to teams based on the probability of either team winning. Sometimes people get screwed for reasons I've already mentioned regarding team balancing, and it increases or decreases your rank based on whether you win or lose. That changed rank is then fed back into the algorithm for the next match and the process repeats. You have yet to explain to me how that does not describe the matchmaking woes everyone has experienced here; but both you and Award are adamant that this is not how it works based on personal experience. Neither of you have shown any statistics on why your personal experience invalidates this, and I pointed out that such information isn't reliable because of the well-established fact that people are not good sources for self-evaluation. Anyone who has studied statistics or research methods understands this, but it seemed to have rustled your and Award's jimmies. I'm sorry if that upset you: it wasn't my intention; but self-reporting is very unreliable in any sort of study. Unless you guys kept a .csv data set I can run through a data miner suite to identify trends, I'm always going to take your personal experience with a grain of salt.

and that perhaps it incorrectly overestimates some players and repeatedly balances the teams incorrectly as a result, leading to extended losing streaks which are difficult to get out of, or even difficult for some players to rank up.
That is what I've been saying this entire time. Seriously, reread my posts on this subject. I have said time and time again that the matchmaker doesn't properly rate player ability and people get ****ty match-ups as a result.

If you win several times in a short window (like a winning streak), it tricks Elo into thinking you have a higher chance of winning against tougher opponents than you can realistically defeat. What happens is that win streaks slingshot people into a pool of players that are actually well beyond what they're capable of beating. That's when the losing streak begins.
Again, in an Elo system, runaway winning streaks and losing streaks can have a disproportionate impact on your player value and place you in lobbies that are way above or below your actual level of performance.
I suspect you would argue that it would mathematically balance in the end so it doesn't matter, except even if that were true, you have no idea how many games are needed to balance out–what if that value is unattainable? Then the 'mathematical balance' is useless.
I have never said that nor would I. I did say that the matchmaker tries to balance teams to as close to a 50/50 matchup as possible by running permutations of every combination of player rank (player value) on each team until the numbers work out to a 50% chance of either side winning.

This is precisely why an Elo based matchmaker is terrible for these games. It doesn't properly weigh a player's actual ability, it only uses an assigned player value as a means of calculating the probability of winning, and this problem is exacerbated when four different players are combined into a single figure that is supposed to represent how Team A stacks up against Team B. Elo doesn't know or care if you played the best match of your career. It simply plugs your player value into an equation to determine the probability of your team winning with a certain combination of players with different player values. At this point, skill doesn't enter into the equation. I was mistaken when I said it did.
It certainly would seem to explain everyone's experiences. Players who lean towards a certain style build up a bell curve that favors things like kills or coverage. The game builds a lobby based on bell curve or K/D/C stat value comparisons. From there, it calculates which combination of players on each team results in the closest to a 50% chance of either side winning, then puts them on a team. Since it throws everyone's stats together into a single average for the whole team, it doesn't consider the actual performance of the individuals on the team, but how the team would perform if it were a single player matched against another single player using the combined stat average as a basis for comparison.

Thus, Team A may have the player with the highest player value (the best player) put on the same team with one mid-tier player and two bottom tier players while Team B may have the second best player in the lobby on the same team as three mid-tier players. In practice, Team B has a significant advantage as one can expect the mid-tiers to outperform the bottom tier players on Team A, and may be good enough to give the top-tier player a challenge. Even if they aren't a match for the top tier player, they fact that Team A as two "dead weight" teammates where Team B doesn't makes the match unfairly slanted towards Team B, even if the matchmaking calculations determine both teams to be almost equal.
Seriously, I try to explain this to you guys repeatedly and you swear up and down this isn't how it works. Suddenly, you have an epiphany and proceed to argue that what I've been saying all along is the way it works. :rolleyes:

Omg I'm just poking fun at BlackZero, jsilva and Award's matchmaking discourses xD

I've actually found them very interesting, but at the same time hilarious that they keep on cropping up in various threads over the past several months xD
Our discussions on this subject can be summarized as follows:

 

Award

Squid Savior From the Future
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
1,661
So yes, I do think everyone's matchmaking experience can be explained with an distorted Elo system. The game assembles a lobby of random players in TW, or random players within a specific rank range, then assigns them to teams based on the probability of either team winning. Sometimes people get screwed for reasons I've already mentioned regarding team balancing, and it increases or decreases your rank based on whether you win or lose. That changed rank is then fed back into the algorithm for the next match and the process repeats. You have yet to explain to me how that does not describe the matchmaking woes everyone has experienced here; but both you and Award are adamant that this is not how it works based on personal experience. Neither of you have shown any statistics on why your personal experience invalidates this, and I pointed out that such information isn't reliable because of the well-established fact that people are not good sources for self-evaluation. Anyone who has studied statistics or research methods understands this, but it seemed to have rustled your and Award's jimmies. I'm sorry if that upset you: it wasn't my intention; but self-reporting is very unreliable in any sort of study. Unless you guys kept a .csv data set I can run through a data miner suite to identify trends, I'm always going to take your personal experience with a grain of salt.
I've considered your Elo considerations often and have played devils advocate from your position in my conversations with jsilva on the topic often. I don't disregard it, but the more I see from more angles, I'm simply not convinced it fits. Perhaps it plays a role, but the more I see of the patterning the more I'm convinced there's a portion of a home-rolled (bad) Trueskill-like system at work that is indeed using individual player statistics behind the scenes. You yourself have pointed out numerous times that the Elo system randomness would work both ways, and yet it does not appear to do so. Additionally, by your descriptions, large winning or losing streaks should cause the elo system to reverse with an opposing extreme bias the other way. It seems to not react to win streaks or losing streaks with any predictable behavior. Whether or not elo is or is not one component of the system I don't know, but I'm more certain than ever that that is not the main driving force behind the system, or that the "tinkering" with how it works has broken it in a way that is no longer consistent with your expected elo behaviors.

I also don't recall you providing specific player data for a sample of lobbies demonstrating the actual calculation match for your conclusions. You're relying on self-reported personal experience and that of others as much as we are. From your experience and reading that of others you've determined it's simple elo, we've determined that no longer fits. Until Nintendo dumps their metrics on a public server, or someone on NeoGAF finds it, everybody including yourself is going on personal experience and anecdotes alone.

I have never said that nor would I. I did say that the matchmaker tries to balance teams to as close to a 50/50 matchup as possible by running permutations of every combination of player rank (player value) on each team until the numbers work out to a 50% chance of either side winning.
Statistically that SHOULD result in the randomness resulting either in favor of or against favor of the player exactly 50% of the time. It does not seem to do that. Some players seem to get stuck, to explain it in the frame of your elo examples, with a high player value that forces them to get consistently paired with weaker teammates against an even team. By the elo examples, the ensuing losses should cause it to lower the player value and that should stop happening. It does not appear to do so based on a losing streak from said imbalances.


Nobody is saying you're incorrect about how elo works. We're saying we're no longer convinced the patterns of elo are what fits the reality of this system, regardless of if elo is used as a portion of the system or not. You're defending the metrics of elo as though you are certain that is the matchmaking system in play as a fact, when it was merely a hypothesis we made a few months ago based on the available observations of the time.
 

jsilva

Inkling Cadet
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
262
Unless you guys kept a .csv data set I can run through a data miner suite to identify trends, I'm always going to take your personal experience with a grain of salt.
I actually had been keeping detailed records for about 300 games...

But more importantly, please tell me you're able to see that your opinions on the matter are not more correct simply because you're referencing data from other systems? You have no idea if Elo is used in Splatoon but you speak as if you have greater authority about the matchmaking in Splatoon, yet your only basis for applying it to Splatoon is your own experience. We're in the same boat dude, so show some humility in your attitude.

So yes, I do think everyone's matchmaking experience can be explained with an distorted Elo system. The game assembles a lobby of random players in TW, or random players within a specific rank range, then assigns them to teams based on the probability of either team winning. Sometimes people get screwed for reasons I've already mentioned regarding team balancing, and it increases or decreases your rank based on whether you win or lose. That changed rank is then fed back into the algorithm for the next match and the process repeats. You have yet to explain to me how that does not describe the matchmaking woes everyone has experienced here; but both you and Award are adamant that this is not how it works based on personal experience. Neither of you have shown any statistics on why your personal experience invalidates this, and I pointed out that such information isn't reliable because of the well-established fact that people are not good sources for self-evaluation. Anyone who has studied statistics or research methods understands this, but it seemed to have rustled your and Award's jimmies. I'm sorry if that upset you: it wasn't my intention; but self-reporting is very unreliable in any sort of study.
Perhaps you can explain the following occurrence in an Elo system:

- I played squad with a friend who is a B. Whenever I played squad with this person on my account we'd get matched against S/S+ players, so I thought I'd play on my wife's account. She's not very good and is a C+. Our first game we were matched against low ranked players who played just a little better than newbies. The next game, and all the games following, we were matched against much higher ranked players who were considerably better. I had to play as hard as I could to win, and even then we didn't win every game. It seems obvious to me that Splatoon could determine my skill with some accuracy within one match, and that doesn't sound like Elo.

That is what I've been saying this entire time. Seriously, reread my posts on this subject. I have said time and time again that the matchmaker doesn't properly rate player ability and people get ****ty match-ups as a result.

...

Seriously, I try to explain this to you guys repeatedly and you swear up and down this isn't how it works. Suddenly, you have an epiphany and proceed to argue that what I've been saying all along is the way it works. :rolleyes:
Despite the pride in your response you don't seem to be understanding what I meant ;)

You write from the perspective that losing streaks are the result of the player being in a rank higher than their skill. I disagree. What I meant was that losing streaks may be the result of Splatoon overestimating a player's skill and in an attempt to balance the teams a specific player ends up being put on the weaker team repeatedly. So that specific player ends up well below the rank which reflects their skill. That's a very different perspective from yours.
 
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BlackZero

Inkling Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
350
Nobody is saying you're incorrect about how elo works. We're saying we're no longer convinced the patterns of elo are what fits the reality of this system, regardless of if elo is used as a portion of the system or not. You're defending the metrics of elo as though you are certain that is the matchmaking system in play as a fact, when it was merely a hypothesis we made a few months ago based on the available observations of the time.
I actually had been keeping detailed records for about 300 games...
Very well. Let's completely abandon Elo and anything derived from it (which includes TrueSkill and Glicko) as a possibility and start from scratch. What makes you think the matchmaker keeps track of aggregate statistics?

But more importantly, please tell me you're able to see that your opinions on the matter are not more correct simply because you're referencing data from other systems? You have no idea if Elo is used in Splatoon but you speak as if you have greater authority about the matchmaking in Splatoon, yet your only basis for applying it to Splatoon is your own experience. We're in the same boat dude, so show some humility in your attitude.
Very well, I'll simmer down. In my defense, a person gets tired of people treating their effort and ideas like a joke. ELI5 what matchmaker this game uses that is not an Elo derivative.
 

Award

Squid Savior From the Future
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
1,661
Very well. Let's completely abandon Elo and anything derived from it (which includes TrueSkill and Glicko) as a possibility and start from scratch. What makes you think the matchmaker keeps track of aggregate statistics?
To be fair, there's probably some portion of it that's derrived from elo at some level. It's not in Nintendo's DNA to use any technology off-the shelf, but it's not in their DNA to invent from scratch either. But they're one of the worst "We Didn't Invent It Here Syndrome" examples. Their MO is generally to take off the shelf technology, and then re-engineer it in their own image so it works in a "nintendo-like-way". So I imagine based on the usual Nintendo procedures the system is a homebrew, but probably started with an elo base as TrueSkill and such did. That's probably why it seems to exhibit SOME traits of elo, because it's in there, but doesn't really fit with elo properly because it's hack with an attempt to make it "better" (and maybe it IS better, but is flawed.)

Since we discussed elo patterns and such, I've been paying attention to win/lose streaks, lobby exits, etc, etc. expecting to see the influence of the streaks on how it makes matches (lose a lot, and it should tank my player value, etc.) but I don't see any correlations between w/l trajectory and matchmaking difference. None at all in fact. Elo should adjust based on w/l. This doesn't seem to be using w/l in any way. Initially when we considered it it fit the pattern well enough, but I've since gone way up and way down several times, and raised an alt into the A's. The pattern of matchmaking difficulty, or changing of difficulties has not responded to wins and losses.

Raising the alt has showed a lot of trends I was seeing in the upper ranks (A/A+/S) in a clearer light without being bogged down with "maybe I'm not good enough" since I'm playing quite a few ranks below my real rank. Early in The C's I started being paired against other alts (C+'s obvious advanced playstyle, players that could outmatch me, etc.) This is before there was too much win data to seed anything. It clearly didn't use the TW 10 levels of data since my first round was against true C- scrubs, and then it very quickly ratcheted me up to face other alts. In the B's, I started losing some. And even had a partial losing streak in B, and some extreme losing streaks in B+. I treaded water and even almost went back to B several times. I was being paired against a great deal of fellow alts. Players in B, B+ with levels below 20, advanced play, etc. Even with losses, including more losses than wins, it did not adjust the difficulty of these battles or stop matching me with alts, or match me on the "advantaged" team - I always had the lower rank teammates, the other team always has the higher rank teammates and/or alts. While hearsay, it seems to be conventional wisdom within the game that alts are generally matched against other alts. Now, elo could explain that because they win more, but in these alt v alt battles, w/l would remain similar to playing within your own rank because you actually are. So your w/l wouldn't actually look very different from other B- players, for example, who are not playing the all alt lobbies.

Now in the A's, the alt account is back to the familiar pattern where my team is all A-, and the other team is all A/A+, even in A-. It clearly knows I'm the "better" player (with less play data), and pairs me in uphill challenges accordingly. Despite being very loss prone, like a real B+ during my rise to A-.

It's very clear now that W/L isn't a significant factor, if it factors W/L at all. Which is TECHNICALLY a good thing. it DOES seem to know that despite losing as much as a B+ player rising to A-, that I was playing at a higher level than a B+ others. That's also a good thing. But I think it must be overevaluating whatever "player value" it does use based on some unknown conditions. Or it overcompensates (based on limited player availability?) in how it matches you as a result. I do think it's largely going for a 50/50 avg team value, though there seems to be a bias, beyond the numbers of a player getting the lower average, if Splatfest is an example. I consistently got paired on the lower valued team, even when it was showing us our "fes power" number explicitly. I'm assuming there was still a little bit more behind the scenes in that matchmaking. Similarly in ranked, the consistency of getting lower ranked players on my team, etc, if it's really going for a 50/50 is a little startling. If it were using w/l that wouldn't happen nearly so consistently.

Overall, It seems increasingly clear that it's not using a W/L derived result as normal Elo would. It' using "something else" (and the something else would have to be aggregate statistics) which is technically a good thing. It seems like it does try to match based on a 50/50 - not chance to win, but average team value (can't be chance to win if it's not using W/L as the value condition.) That would also explain why "the other alt" is always on the other team and never on mine, and never randomly switches them to mine (but switches their bad teammates to mine) - because we'd have the similar values, and therefore would be the opposing match for team value balance.)

So what about my main account? Noticing the same type of patterning on my main account as I did coming up through the lower ranks on my alt, similar to what jsilva said, I believe there's something wrong with the aggregate statistics tracking that can cause a player to become overvalued based on some condition or play style. Some multiplier somewhere along the line that gets inflated based on some condition. I suspect, while it's not explicitly finding alts, my alt gets paired with other alts because both players have a much higher player value than other players in the rank and so it pairs them against each other. And I'm starting to realize that's what happened in my main account too. Just as I got paired against A+/S alts in B- on my alt account because I had similar performance to them (because I really am one), I believe on my main account at A+/S, I get paired against the S+ alts because it effectively thinks I am one - I must have a similar player value based on some condition of my statistics, this would in fact HAVE to be somethng other than W/L as my W/L would be quite bad compared to middling A+/S players, that those alts do, and it pairs me against them, effectively trapping me below my actual rank because the matches I'm playing actually ARE at that rank. Except in that case, I'm definitely NOT an S+. It's matchmaking for my alt was accurate in determining I'm the same as those higher tier players, because I am. But it falsely thinks, on my other account, I'm the same as the higher tier players in A+/S (which would be S+ alts) even though I'm actually not.


One side note, you probably remember me early on mentioning something seems to change at map rotation. I'm now positive of this. I've rarely seen it NOT be true. I used to believe it simply becomes HARDER after the 9:00 (now 10:00) map change. I believed maybe time of day was it. But I've seen it work in the opposite direction now too. The most stark example was buidling my alt in B+ the other day. Similar to days prior, I was getting matched with alts constantly. Gameplay was fierce. FULL A+/S level gameplay through and through, from BOTH teams. I was having a hard time getting anywhere....losing a lot...then w/l/w/l, then won a few, etc. I ended up right around where I started. I was changing lobbies a lot, and it didn't affect the performance of either team. Then map change. Suddenly after map change it became easy and B+ played exactly as B+ should be expected to play, and I easily won almost every round carrying hard, and delivering the ko myself all but twice. My player value certainly didn't change between map change. Something else changed somehow. Maybe they have "offsets" based on rotations or something that modifies values? That's just a wild stab in the dark, but I'm quite positive that rotation/mode has an effect on matchmaking beyond being a "good map or bad map" for you, and apparently, not time of day related simply because "the Japanese have arrived" etc.

While it doesn't bring us anything but more theory on what it MIGHT be doing, I'm fairly certain now that what it is NOT doing is using W/L to determine player values or assemble lobbies as a primary factor.
 

モモコ

Inkling Cadet
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Feb 28, 2016
Messages
268
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Momogirl3
Personally I believe BZ's results to be incomplete at this point. His reasoning was firmly fixated on the determination that it was using a simple elo matchmaking system, which I agreed with at the time, and trying to fit all our experiences into the results of what elo would do. I've seen enough to determine that the system IS indeed tracking and matching upon player specific values we do not see. As a result, whatever it is doing is not merely elo. I don't think BZ is willing to let go of his thought process on elo for it though so I'm at a point I'll have to continue disagreeing with him.




I'd extend that bracket a little wider. I think my alt is currently at lvl 17 (almost 18) in mid-B+. I messed around with some different weapons, did some squadding during the "sunday curse" against actual high ranks, etc. (seriously, every time I'd take eliter there'd be 1-2 other chargers on the team...bad ones...it was a mess.) that inflated the level with some losses along the way. If I were just blasting through the ranks with no squads and no experimenting maybe. Taking some detours I'd say that lv18-19 for A- is more than reasonable. A+ by level 23-25 is probably more reasonable for someone doing something other than a straight play-through in solo q with mains from the main account. But overall your charge is spot on. The best way to tell is first time players are pretty unlikely to be climbing the ranks that fast. Getting to the A's before the scoped eliters are even unlocked is pretty much a guarantee this is someone who's done this before.

Also, I usually watch the killcam. High rank players tend to move differently in general. And S+ players tend to have VERY different movements from everyone else including most S. If I see a "B+", regardless of level, that moves like an S+, I have a pretty high confidence they ARE an S+.

Or in my alt account squadding yesterday, with a lower ranked squadmate, I was having a hard time against opposing snipers with excellent aim. Better than excellent. 1v1'ing some of them they could countersnipe me excellently and walk away with the kill, they had the same amount of dodging and decoying ability as myself. They were no real "C+". Then again, I was no real "B+"..... Proving yet again the problem of alts. To all the other players in that match that were trying to have a real game, they were getting sniped, on both sides, by real A+/S/S+ snipers posing as C+ and B+ snipers. That was not the only round that one of the players on the other team was clearly demonstrating the performance of an alt. While I have little room to comment playing as an alt myself, it makes it very clear when I'm a "low level player" and keep getting outplayed by other "low level players" - Since I'm not actually the level I appear to be, what are the odds that they're REALLY the level they seem to be if they can strongly counter me? There are MANY. Over a few lobbies there were numerous enough players that the whole thing feels like a giant masquerader's ball. NONE of us were really the rank we were pretending to be. So what is the REAL B- in the lobby supposed to be thinking about their rank? From their perspective they barely deserve their rank, they can't even keep up with the C+'s and B+'s in their lobby....meanwhile we're all really A+/S/S+ players, so the poor B- has to play at A+/S level just to feel like they ALMOST deserve their B. The whole thing is a sham. Add in the scummers - where the REAL S sniper in one lobby did terrible and I countersniped him with ease (while the C+ sniper wiped the floor with me....) while I'm parading around as a "B+" - It's just a joke.



Basically yes. Like xXShadeXx said, some people do that for fun. They're basically mere bullies, but they are quite numerous anywhere the internet is involved. And your description of them having a complex is pretty much spot on. But this is the internet...

I think it's more common for them to over in the B's and A's than C's. Most of the ones in the C's are just new alts being started....the fact that they're so easily seen indicates just how MANY new alts are always being created. Earlier in this thread it was pointed out there's a trend among S+ players to create a new alt for every new weapon they want to learn and bring to S+. They're not doing to be griefers, but lets assume 10,000 S+ players want to learn 6 weapons, and it takes them about 2 weeks to master a weapon to S+ level, that's 60,000 alts over 3 months. it would be interesting to hear from Nintendo how many user accounts exist versus the number of copies sold. Also don't forget the people playing on hacked PC emulators and such.

Others, the ones intending to lose, and let themselves drop back to the C's (or B's) - these are your teammates in the A's (and B's) that are inexplicably standing around spawn, jumping over the edge, carrying the RM backward perhaps. Standing on spawn looking at the sky. Some of them are incompetent scummers....others are possibly griefing alts throwing the match to derank. Also the players like MeTaGross that delete their account to start fresh a few times. That's still a number of matches over time that you'd be able to play against someone with MeTaGross's skill in the C's. Add in a million other people doing the same thing....

Also Momo (I can't tag her since I don't have a Japanese keyboard :) ) clarified for me in another thread about carrying, that some people create C alts just to carry their (real) C friend to S. It's easier to win a bunch of back to back games if you're an S+ playing 3v4 pretending to be a C. So they'll just keep creating new alts to carry their friend while tricking the matchmaker to think they're noobs. (I'll never understand why a C wants to become an S since that means they have to play guaranteed losing matches after that....nor why an S+ would help them do it. But apparently it's common.)



Yep, while I was bringing my alt through the C's the other day that Dual Squelcher with the 27 kills seemed to be one of those people. He had a vastly higher kill rate than mine, but he wasn't good at playing the objective, he was just having fun by destroying noobs. So while he was busy reking noobs, I was painting the zone (and as a biproduct, recking some noobs and interfering with him as well. With my lowly inkbrush.) We won. He left. :D

But these people are known as "griefers" apparently. Destoying the fun of other people is what is fun to them. They play simply because causing grief for others is what gives them joy. No doubt they pulled the wings off butterflies as kids.
I was a level 16 A- on my alt... my almost never losing (1 match in c- on TC) stopped there though.
Then there is this crazy girl who was level 16, A- who ended up as a 24 S+
 

Award

Squid Savior From the Future
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
1,661
I was a level 16 A- on my alt... my almost never losing (1 match in c- on TC) stopped there though.
Then there is this crazy girl who was level 16, A- who ended up as a 24 S+
That's just insane! As for my alt I'm still trapped in A40 or so at lv25 due to the matchmaker starting its antics on me again of always putting me on the weaker team. (if I don't get all A- players with an all A+ opposing team, I end up with equal teams by rank with the obvious S+ alt on the other team (how obvious? He actually put "S+" in his name...a rare courtesy by an alt/ :D ) I played some rounds yesterday and ended up exactly where I began after a bunch of TC rounds where I cleared half the map a million times for the tower trailing behind me only to find that my teammates inexplicably jumped off the tower constantly and let it reset. I can't clear the enemies AND ride the tower, guys!)

What level were you when you entered A+ on your alt?
 

モモコ

Inkling Cadet
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Feb 28, 2016
Messages
268
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Momogirl3
That's just insane! As for my alt I'm still trapped in A40 or so at lv25 due to the matchmaker starting its antics on me again of always putting me on the weaker team. (if I don't get all A- players with an all A+ opposing team, I end up with equal teams by rank with the obvious S+ alt on the other team (how obvious? He actually put "S+" in his name...a rare courtesy by an alt/ :D ) I played some rounds yesterday and ended up exactly where I began after a bunch of TC rounds where I cleared half the map a million times for the tower trailing behind me only to find that my teammates inexplicably jumped off the tower constantly and let it reset. I can't clear the enemies AND ride the tower, guys!)

What level were you when you entered A+ on your alt?
i do not remember + stopped caring as it was splatfest time at that point (if you notice ending of my c- to a- thing) you see the trucks out and such for art vs science.

Sp I got no idea since I stop keeping tracks when I figure something is not important, I have to look back and find video. I start getting like 60% win rate and such (slowly move up) in As so I stop trying to speed run.
 

Award

Squid Savior From the Future
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
1,661
i do not remember + stopped caring as it was splatfest time at that point (if you notice ending of my c- to a- thing) you see the trucks out and such for art vs science.

Sp I got no idea since I stop keeping tracks when I figure something is not important, I have to look back and find video. I start getting like 60% win rate and such (slowly move up) in As so I stop trying to speed run.
Yeah, sounds kind of familiar. Maybe more like 55%. It feels like I move down some days, up some days, and end up roughly in the same spot days on end. Over many days the trend goes upward but it's such a grind with so many disappointing losses between it's hard to keep track. If it were close it would be one thing. But it's either "we got it 50 closer" or "they got it 50 closer" or more often than not "we had it 40 closer for 4:00 but then my team was just standing around assured of victory didn't notice the opponents coming in in overtime. :rolleyes:

Despite disliking carried players, once you get to the slog of the A's, play gets a lot more fun in squads - I'd almost hate to see an end to squad rank points if only to have no recourse to move up without playing solo with players that can't even get on the tower and STAY there while you clear a path. :p
 

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