Ancho-V Games NOW RELEASED!

[Award]

Okay, this obsession with moving platforms up and down is spilling over into Ranked too. Ancho-V Games Rainmaker I don't mind too much; you can use these platforms to facilitate getting to the goal or to flank people trying to attack the Rainmaker holder. But in Tower Control and especially Splat Zones, they just get in the way. These platforms essentially make it impossible to ink or attack from most of the perches when you're using a charger or a long-range weapon, because someone will inevitably raise the platform and block your shot.

In my experience they're raising them to try to get into the enemy base or as a quick escape route to dodge an enemy shot. I'll hold the platform up when a teammate is on it to keep them above and away from the fray, for example. Your inkers might be different though ;)

Interesting. I never really used Sprinklers for much other than to passively ink a particular area I didn't have time to visit or one I know nobody will be reaching, and as a result, I can get high ink scores with any weapon with Sprinklers, even the Kelps. I have noticed Sprinkelrs are quite good at identifying if there's someone hiding around a corner, even if a Point Sensor does the job better. But then again, a Point Sensor can only do one thing, so it HAS to be the best at what it does. A Sprinkler can do many things, so it's excused for being a master of none.

I could never quite figure out how to make the most of sprinklers until CHydra came out (better late than never!) It fits its "control the map" mentality so well. Depending on the situation and the map I'll use sprinklers for inking the prime territories, but they're really fantastic for harassment and flushing out hidden foes (albeit, they're very slow at doing so.) The thing with a sprinkler is, if it's near you you eventually HAVE to do something about it. It may be anemic at first, but if you let it sit there several seconds it takes a big area, so it forces a response from anyone that doesn't want to lose that piece of ground or find themselves suddenly in enemy ink. Retreat or attack are all that's available. It's a devious little toy. So useless on paper and in practice but can do so much damage unattended. Getting kills from sprinklers is still the funniest way to get kills (and humiliating way to be killed. :))

What about the path to the right after the fan platform on the right? The narrow one that turns to the left and into the main area? That seems to be designed specifically to let people escape from a spawn camp, since this path cannot be entered from the enemy's side and empties out into a wide area, so it can't be bottlenecked?

That one is perfect for the task, but it depends on the team. At this point keep in mid is fully covered in enemy ink. In MOST spawncamps there's 1 player who stays out of it. When my team is spawncamping, that player is me. I won't participate in the spawncamp itself, but I WILL defend mid. The alternative is to willfully LET the enemy reclaim mid, jump out and attack me. I won't attack them in their base, but it's still my duty to protect mid and our base.

But when spawncamped and escaping through that right tunnel, that means the one player staying behind might be an eliter on the other side, or it could be a carbon roller lurking in mid. Or a SSP up on the left ledge. It's very rare that escaping a spawncamp itself gets you past the genuine mid defender doing what they're supposed to. Once in a blue moon, usually in Blackbelly or Piranha I'll break out to the other side and be able to start a turnaround. Smaller maps like Ancho-V, that's almost impossible without a coordinated team escaping as a group.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

In my experience they're raising them to try to get into the enemy base or as a quick escape route to dodge an enemy shot. I'll hold the platform up when a teammate is on it to keep them above and away from the fray, for example. Your inkers might be different though ;)

Nah, when I see the platform raised, it never stays up. Clearly, it's just being used to travel. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say that most people have stopped just shooting at the fan for fun though.

I could never quite figure out how to make the most of sprinklers until CHydra came out (better late than never!) It fits its "control the map" mentality so well. Depending on the situation and the map I'll use sprinklers for inking the prime territories, but they're really fantastic for harassment and flushing out hidden foes (albeit, they're very slow at doing so.) The thing with a sprinkler is, if it's near you you eventually HAVE to do something about it. It may be anemic at first, but if you let it sit there several seconds it takes a big area, so it forces a response from anyone that doesn't want to lose that piece of ground or find themselves suddenly in enemy ink. Retreat or attack are all that's available. It's a devious little toy. So useless on paper and in practice but can do so much damage unattended. Getting kills from sprinklers is still the funniest way to get kills (and humiliating way to be killed. :))

Something I find interesting about Sprinklers is that they do not go away until the user plants another one, if the user gets splatted, or it's shot at enough. Left unattended, it will continue to claim turf. It gets annoying if I'm the only one noticing it though. There was a Splat Zones Museum d'Alfonsino match where an opponent with an N-Zap '89 kept putting it on the rotating platform, and I was the only one shooting it down. I must have done so at least 8 times in that match while my teammates were going around inking the floor area, ignoring the Sprinkler. As soon as I'd shoot it down, another one will pop up in its place.

Another use for the Sprinkler I've discovered is something of a sporadic shield. I've been saved a few times because I'm standing within my Sprinkler's inking range, especially if the person coming at me has a very short-range weapon like a Splat Roller or a Sploosh-o-Matic. They're also good if you're using a Kelp and there's a path that can only be accessed via a narrow path, like in Arowana Mall, and you put the Sprinkler there to stall them. If the Sprinkler's gone, it means someone's there.

That one is perfect for the task, but it depends on the team. At this point keep in mid is fully covered in enemy ink. In MOST spawncamps there's 1 player who stays out of it. When my team is spawncamping, that player is me. I won't participate in the spawncamp itself, but I WILL defend mid. The alternative is to willfully LET the enemy reclaim mid, jump out and attack me. I won't attack them in their base, but it's still my duty to protect mid and our base.

But when spawncamped and escaping through that right tunnel, that means the one player staying behind might be an eliter on the other side, or it could be a carbon roller lurking in mid. Or a SSP up on the left ledge. It's very rare that escaping a spawncamp itself gets you past the genuine mid defender doing what they're supposed to. Once in a blue moon, usually in Blackbelly or Piranha I'll break out to the other side and be able to start a turnaround. Smaller maps like Ancho-V, that's almost impossible without a coordinated team escaping as a group.

If youescape, couldn't it mean others can super-jump to you? If there's usually only one person defending the middle, they won't be able to deal with two or three people coming in through that path. The purpose of that path was not obvious to me at first until I got spawn-camped.

 

[Award]

Nah, when I see the platform raised, it never stays up. Clearly, it's just being used to travel. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say that most people have stopped just shooting at the fan for fun though.

Yeah, I mean that's THE only real way back into either base from mid, like the rotating mid wall in Museum, so those lifts should be expected to go up and down pretty frequently as any transits between zones and mid. Although most of the time when the one on our side goes up it's because the enemy is coming up on it. Or is creating a distraction while they come around the other side. I'll use them to retreat, sometimes my team does too. But I cringe when I have an eliter on that mid platform and the fan is going up - I KNOW an ambush is inkoming.

Something I find interesting about Sprinklers is that they do not go away until the user plants another one, if the user gets splatted, or it's shot at enough. Left unattended, it will continue to claim turf. It gets annoying if I'm the only one noticing it though. There was a Splat Zones Museum d'Alfonsino match where an opponent with an N-Zap '89 kept putting it on the rotating platform, and I was the only one shooting it down. I must have done so at least 8 times in that match while my teammates were going around inking the floor area, ignoring the Sprinkler. As soon as I'd shoot it down, another one will pop up in its place.

Another use for the Sprinkler I've discovered is something of a sporadic shield. I've been saved a few times because I'm standing within my Sprinkler's inking range, especially if the person coming at me has a very short-range weapon like a Splat Roller or a Sploosh-o-Matic. They're also good if you're using a Kelp and there's a path that can only be accessed via a narrow path, like in Arowana Mall, and you put the Sprinkler there to stall them. If the Sprinkler's gone, it means someone's there.

Yep, though my opponents are usually quick to take out my sprinklers on prominent places like the rotating walls on Museum or anywhere near the mid boxes in Ancho-V. I really have to use them in either devious places (up on our side of the signage displays in Anch-V) or keep them on our side mostly. But I also get the ones, especially as a charger, where a new one goes up every time I take one out. They'll do that specifically to chargers as sprinklers are probably the best charger distractions out there. You're kind of obligated to shoot them.

I was a victim of my own strategy yesterday (in our own base though) in triggerfish, the enemy was just tossing sprinklers into our base from the gates, and I was waiting with a carbon roller down below....I had to try waiting it out....but the sprinkler forced me out eventually. They're really weird weapons. Everything about them seems so weak and useless, yet they can be so powerful.

If youescape, couldn't it mean others can super-jump to you? If there's usually only one person defending the middle, they won't be able to deal with two or three people coming in through that path. The purpose of that path was not obvious to me at first until I got spawn-camped.

YOUR inkers might follow you through that path. My team just stays to brawl at spawn. I've broken out a few times alone, but if you drop to mid, you're in shark infested waters. I've climbed up the wall to the perch/ledge a few times - that's better to flush out your base from two sides than for taking over mid. But it's weapon dependent as to how it works. And if the enemy has a charger/squelcher/RB/SM you're not going to have much luck.

 

[Silver]

Anyone here play xenoblade chronicles X

Please keep on topic. Thanks

 

[Silver]

Interesting, I haven't see the brief spawn camp periods, they seem persistent to me. Though you're right about the early stages being the worst, Hammerhead is definitely uncommon (but happens), The only reason Museum and Mahi haven't camped me recently is I've been running CHydra there a lot lately, and CHydra is insanely capable of reversing a spawncamp. A few times my team was pinned down in each of these maps, and I just unperched with hydra and cleared out the lot of them. I got killed a few times trying to do it solo, but each respawn I'd push them back more before they finally fled.

Please be careful with double posting. Thanks

 

[birdiebee]

Ancho-V is a blast! I don't see how you could hate it. I was intimidated by it for awhile, but once I got better at anticipating enemy locations and learning all the routes, it's definitely one of the better stages! I played Tower Control yesterday. Its awesome! I love that the base segment of the tower path is quite wide open. Not narrow or restrictive and requires your team to have a lot of cooperation to keep the tower moving forward, because the opposing team has several routes to attack from.

 

[Award]

Ancho-V is a blast! I don't see how you could hate it. I was intimidated by it for awhile, but once I got better at anticipating enemy locations and learning all the routes, it's definitely one of the better stages! I played Tower Control yesterday. Its awesome! I love that the base segment of the tower path is quite wide open. Not narrow or restrictive and requires your team to have a lot of cooperation to keep the tower moving forward, because the opposing team has several routes to attack from.

So far I've only played it in TW, but, yeah, I generally like it other than the ease of starting a spawncamp for unbalanced teams with an overskilled super player. But it's not down to Mackerel levels of spawncamp ever.

I haven't seen any of the ranked modes on it yet, but I suspect the "requires your team to have a lot of cooperation" is part of why some people hate it. Cooperation isn't generally the strong suit of randoms. Contrary to popular myth, my teams prove that this is true even among Japanese players ;) Maps that allow more "lone wolfing" are probably going to be most popular among those embittered by bad teammates.

 

[electraheart]

it's such a small map.
i like the moving platforms because they help make the map unique. also i like the general atmosphere of the map? the decorations and the office is just really new, i guess.

also it took me way longer that it should have to understand the fish pun in the name.

 

[buttfield]

Ancho-V's main problem is that its weapon balance is awful in Zones, due to the congregation around the featureless pit in the middle of the map, leaving any attempted capture to be ripped apart by the inevitable overlooking E3Ks and .96s. Brushes and low-ranged shooters/blasters get the worst of this, as the map's fans mean they must expose themselves very clearly to reach the main flanking point (which can, in turn, be guarded by a .96/E3K).

This carries over to Rainmaker as well, due to how easy it is to prevent the carrier from leaving the pit, and the fact that the match could be decided by which team is lucky enough to get the thing out of the pit for more than ten seconds.

 

[Reila]

This map is really fun. I like it in pretty much every mode.

 

[モモコ]

I see this map having huge problems in splatzones, and it is shared with museum.

Both maps have the zone too small, with the map too small (so team get back too fast after being splatted) so inkstrike, dynamo, few bombs, etc claims it easy. It is a small map further favoring dynamo. Dynamo rollers just spread too much ink for maps like this.

I have not really mind it in tc, rm, or tw yet, and I do have lots of fun on it for tw.

 

[Award]

Ancho-V's main problem is that its weapon balance is awful in Zones, due to the congregation around the featureless pit in the middle of the map, leaving any attempted capture to be ripped apart by the inevitable overlooking E3Ks and .96s. Brushes and low-ranged shooters/blasters get the worst of this, as the map's fans mean they must expose themselves very clearly to reach the main flanking point (which can, in turn, be guarded by a .96/E3K).

This carries over to Rainmaker as well, due to how easy it is to prevent the carrier from leaving the pit, and the fact that the match could be decided by which team is lucky enough to get the thing out of the pit for more than ten seconds.

I see this map having huge problems in splatzones, and it is shared with museum.

Both maps have the zone too small, with the map too small (so team get back too fast after being splatted) so inkstrike, dynamo, few bombs, etc claims it easy. It is a small map further favoring dynamo. Dynamo rollers just spread too much ink for maps like this.

I have not really mind it in tc, rm, or tw yet, and I do have lots of fun on it for tw.

It's funny how opinions can vary. Both of you have some salt on this map against two of my mains, meanwhile, I have salt against the map because it's terrible for those mains! :p

IMO 3K has a serious disadvantage here. Between the fan platforms going up and down and the various signage hanging down, it's almost impossible to get a good vantage point at anything in the map without exposing yourself too close on that long shelf overlooking the pit, and it's way too easy to get ganked there. I've seen some eliters do well here, but overall, I haven't seen many successful eliter outings either on my team or against me due to that layout. I still try it in TC, but, unfortunately, this map doesn't agree with me for TC very well even with 3K. Too many places the tower is JUST out of line of sight, or that trying to snipe it you're within range of the tower's shooters/escorts. or the one place (that far, rear perch) that's a good location seldom has a clear view of anything, and if you miss, your team is in trouble. I find in TC I end up sniping from next to spawn more often than not, trying to hold the tower away. And for some odd reason I seem to miss more shots here at the tower than any other map. I presume lag induced from the obligatory 3 simultaneous bomb rushes all in draw distance range tends to be related. And fan lifts.

Dynamo fairs a little better, but not much. I still use it for Zones on my main account, but it's VERY iffy and makes you very team dependent. IF you can carve one of the two corners out you can hold out and really ink the zone. But if you get ganged up on, or can't keep turf in those corners, especially if they start attacking from the overlooking grates/coves overlooking the corners, you just get relentlessly splatted while not contributing much to splattage, or the zone. And you can't reach the full zone from any of the elevated areas so that doesn't help either.

I love the map in TW, and I've come to like it with octobrush in RM, but TC and Zones are pretty horrid for these weapons (and most others) in this map. I'm not sure it was well thought out in those modes. IMO for zones, the fanlifts should have been disabled (or parked upright) the way the gates start down for Triggerfish, and possibly for TC as well. Or the map should have just been a little bigger. Ultimately midrange shooters, and especially wall gals seem to rule the day here. Which is annoying to say the least.

Museum TC is large and open by contrast with a few areas to lurk in. And Museum's problem is the zone is much too large, and the rotating wall does weird things to the ink coverage, so that covering almost the whole zone doesn't claim it, but the enemy putting 3 drops of ink on it seems to do so.

 

[モモコ]

And Museum's problem is the zone is much too large, and the rotating wall does weird things to the ink coverage, so that covering almost the whole zone doesn't claim it, but the enemy putting 3 drops of ink on it seems to do so.

That is from being too small + lag issues (lag can cause score to be bad, claim zones when the shouldn't be claimed, least in your view, just like TC going backwards, stutter step, and RM being unpopable, unable to pick up)
I was showing someone close how move around there here:

The seeker that I threw from one edge, to the other edge, curves and hit the wall on the other side should really show how small that map really is =.= (fact it blew up and made it to that wall)

But I do not have issues with e3k here esp with my defense setup, but dynamo has too much inkspread on ancho v, just too small of a map.

 

[Award]

That is from being too small + lag issues (lag can cause score to be bad, claim zones when the shouldn't be claimed, least in your view, just like TC going backwards, stutter step, and RM being unpopable, unable to pick up)

Your thoughts on the game being too fast paced with too fast a time to kill with most weapons to properly handle internet play keep echoing in my mind every time I play. it's a truly unfortunate issue that is going to be difficult to handle in Splatoon 2. The only way to fix it is to slow the game pace down. And the pace is now part of the identity of Splatoon. They've built a kind of impossible situation.

I'm really seeing how bad these details are with octobrush....so many times I'm flicking at someone and should have killed them, but didn't because they were apparently out of my range even though on my screen they weren't. And players that I go to attack and they vanish and are behind me. I used to think they were just good at swimming away rapidly, but I've seen enough "stutter step" to realize they're just teleporting. (That reallty kills my sniping when I see that kind of lag too. Even though eliter is a hitscan weapon it's based ENTIRELY on being able to micro-predict enemy position based on movement. If I see someone swimming up the tower I know exactly when to fire the shot to hit them up top. When they then flash backwards to the bottom of the tower swimming up again, I've already wasted my charge, have to hastily charge again and then try to shoot the moving tower (that seems not to get hit.) I think that's the difference between going 12/4 and going 4/3 with eliter is how much micro-teleportation is going on. Towers that don't get inked (even when I'm STANDING on it and flicking furiously with my brush!) are problematic as well.

I never equated lag with the zone being claimed without it being properly inked by the enemy though....ugh!

The seeker that I threw from one edge, to the other edge, curves and hit the wall on the other side should really show how small that map really is =.= (fact it blew up and made it to that wall)

I remember when it came out, everyone was talking about how BIG the map was. But at least it has those side areas to retreat to or flank from. Ancho-V doesn't really even have THAT!

But I do not have issues with e3k here esp with my defense setup, but dynamo has too much inkspread on ancho v, just too small of a map.

I think that's a case of "when the enemy uses this it's devastating, when I use it it does nothing" :p All the hanging signage just makes it so hard to make the flick actually REACH anywhere. At least for zones. You have to get in right at the edge of the zone, right on their fan wall (or next to it) (or risk standing on your side of the zone) to actually ink the zone with dynamo. I think I take the zone more with inkstrikes and splat bombs when I take dynamo than with the actual roller flicks! IMO I do use Dynamo there, but when I find lobbies are too good at taking me out or keeping me from securing a corner, I feel kind of useless. It's very campy. I've often found more success (especially after your video!) taking Krak-On there and going on base raids to buy the shooters time to ink the zone. ;)

 

[モモコ]

Your thoughts on the game being too fast paced with too fast a time to kill with most weapons to properly handle internet play keep echoing in my mind every time I play. it's a truly unfortunate issue that is going to be difficult to handle in Splatoon 2. The only way to fix it is to slow the game pace down. And the pace is now part of the identity of Splatoon. They've built a kind of impossible situation.

just remember I was calling splatzones small (area of zone and important area to get to zone) When you enter TC the sides get to be important, at least much more then splatzones and tw of course so the map seems bigger those modes. I was not around for such talk though, I never really found any map big, but maps like walleye and camp tend to be more balance then short and round. For acho V with small zone and improper zone claiming check this:

Look at the ink after the claim flash, it was the same ink I put down during the inkstirke, not only that me and a teammate was clearly shooting there with no opponent (opponent was shooting other side, not as important) Also look at the map at the game over screen, even with claim pure bonus (outside our new ink) I do not think that is enough to win claim.

So stuff like this can tell us a few things:
inkstrike op on some maps (ty for hammerhead bridge, long and narrow is better)
Lag check/ink cover needs be better.

I have some other errors of score rank if you want to see (I doono pm or other topic but I feel it is getting a bit off track with posting them here)

 

[Award]

I've seen that sort of thing before - I think I've figured out that the ink map data and the movement data are transmitted SEPERATELY as seperate data packets possibly from different players. I've seen lag where players seem laggy, and I'll see an ink trail form and hear the seeker, THEN the seeker goes by. Or I see players drop suction bombs, then I see the ink map update and show the newly inked area, THEN the bomb explodes. Which one is right? There's no way to tell!

Yeah, on Ancho-V inkstrikes are somewhat OP. And yet, going back to Dynamo in Zones here, the area you were in the video above is the area I generally try to lurk with dynamo. But with the slow fling of dynamo and the unpredictable ohko zone it's hard to get enemies coming off the rotating platform and the side grates, and hard to keep that area inked to move in. If you lose that area you're sunk, BUT the way you keep inking the zone from where you are...with dynamo, if that wall goes up, it cuts off your flings from reaching the zone (and allows enemies to duck too easily. And you can't hit the zone by flinging up, the signs block it. Your blaster is actually a lot more ideal here, but RnB is poor at inking the zone....so if your team won't do it...you're in trouble!

Sure you can PM me the videos, I'm always interested to see where Splatoon lag is causing trouble! :)