Any Christian fans/players out there?

[youre_a_squib_now]

I don't have anything against contemporary music as a whole. There are plenty of songs by Hillsong and others that we regularly use in our church, and I don't see anything wrong with them. If some songs say things that go against what the Bible says, then don't use those songs, but I don't see any reason to hold that against *every* song that they made.

They're totally against Biblical doctrine and they practice occultism. The leaders of them are paedophiles, adulterers and fornicators.

As for this... where are you even getting this from? What have these groups done for you to call them such things? I can think of a few minor inaccuracies in their songs, but nothing like this.

 

[DinkyDine]

I don't have anything against contemporary music as a whole. There are plenty of songs by Hillsong and others that we regularly use in our church, and I don't see anything wrong with them. If some songs say things that go against what the Bible says, then don't use those songs, but I don't see any reason to hold that against *every* song that they made.



As for this... where are you even getting this from? What have these groups done for you to call them such things? I can think of a few minor inaccuracies in their songs, but nothing like this.

Victim of Hillsong Church founder's father describes ordeal

Felt like he'd been murdered

www.9news.com.au

Frank Houston was a ‘serial paedophile’ and extent of his crimes may never be known, court hears

Trial hears Frank Houston also told his son Brian, founder of Hillsong, that he was abused by his own grandfather as a child

www.theguardian.com

Former Bethel leader speaks out on church's beliefs, grave sucking and gold dust

A former leader at Bethel Church in Redding, California, which is often criticized for some of its charismatic practices, has broken her silence and responded to some of the more common criticisms of ...

www.christianpost.com

The False Teaching of Steven Furtick

Steven Furtick Steven Furtick is a very popular speaker. He’s clearly a gifted communicator, and – based on the growth of his congregations – likely a gifted leader as well. As the founder and pastor of Elevation Church – home of the popular Christian music group Elevation Worship – he has a...

godwords.org

If you see them in fits of crying or howling thats not the Holy Spirit they're having an encounter with. They're worshipping God not through faith but through lying signs and wonders.

Bryan Houston and Steven Furtick exhalt themselves above God because they teach their own doctrine rather than Gods doctrine, therefore replacing his with theirs.

 

[DinkyDine]

All of them also preach this prosperity gospel which is all about feel-good living and finding yourself, which is essentially throwing away God's doctrine and exalting yourself above him through finding "yourself" and your true "power" same as the Buddhists teach through their Eight Fold Path.

 

[briank913]

I don't have anything against contemporary music as a whole. There are plenty of songs by Hillsong and others that we regularly use in our church, and I don't see anything wrong with them. If some songs say things that go against what the Bible says, then don't use those songs, but I don't see any reason to hold that against *every* song that they made.



As for this... where are you even getting this from? What have these groups done for you to call them such things? I can think of a few minor inaccuracies in their songs, but nothing like this.

Part of what brings to question the authenticity, if you will, of contemporary worship is the doctrine and theology behind the church of origin. The lyrics may be fine at first glance (maybe with a few minor errors here and there) but if it's from those with questionable theology, then questions should be asked. Hillsong in particular has scandals behinds its finances, Brian Houston's sexual abuse scandal, its softened views on LBGTQ, and so forth. Bethel's supernatural ministry is just questionable (grave sucking God's anointing from dead revivalists? Its school of supernatural ministry being taught by an apostle?). There's no such thing as a modern apostle because every Apostle from Peter to Paul has seen Jesus, which is a huge criteria to be an apostle. These are just some examples but to embrace worship songs from those who have questionable theology and a decreasingly biblical worldview brings to question the capacity of worship leaders. The spiritual realm is really a minefield where a new mine can get placed at a moment's notice tragically. This is why we should always be lifting up our worship leaders and worship pastors in prayer, that the Spirit will help them discern.

To make a long post short, it comes down to the capacity of our shepherds/pastors: if our church leaders cannot distinguish between biblical doctrine and unbiblical doctrines, then why should we trust them to teach the word of God accurately? How do we know they're not putting their ideologies in with the Bible?

GotQuestions.org is a website that answers many questions with a biblically solid worldview. If you got time, I recommend reading through these. But hope this helps!

Is Hillsong a biblically solid church? | GotQuestions.org

Is Hillsong a biblically solid church? What denomination is Hillsong Church associated with? Are Hillsong worship songs biblically sound?

www.gotquestions.org

What is Bethel Church, Redding CA? | GotQuestions.org

What is Bethel Church in Redding California? Who is Pastor Bill Johnson? Is Bethel Church a solid, biblically based church?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[DinkyDine]

Part of what brings to question the authenticity, if you will, of contemporary worship is the doctrine and theology behind the church of origin. The lyrics may be fine at first glance (maybe with a few minor errors here and there) but if it's from those with questionable theology, then questions should be asked. Hillsong in particular has scandals behinds its finances, Brian Houston's sexual abuse scandal, its softened views on LBGTQ, and so forth. Bethel's supernatural ministry is just questionable (grave sucking God's anointing from dead revivalists? Its school of supernatural ministry being taught by an apostle?).

GotQuestions.org is a website that answers many questions with a biblically solid worldview. If you got time, I recommend reading through these.

Is Hillsong a biblically solid church? | GotQuestions.org

Is Hillsong a biblically solid church? What denomination is Hillsong Church associated with? Are Hillsong worship songs biblically sound?

www.gotquestions.org

What is Bethel Church, Redding CA? | GotQuestions.org

What is Bethel Church in Redding California? Who is Pastor Bill Johnson? Is Bethel Church a solid, biblically based church?

www.gotquestions.org

I already posted that stuff about grave sucking and stuff but great job backing me up. Also you're right, the lyrics may seem somewhat strange at first but if you take a deeper look into them they're not to be trusted as the individuals writing the songs have clear theological errors. Bethel, Elevation and Hillsong are all apart of this feel good Christian movement where their doctrine and music attempts to lessen the blow of sins and of reprobate doctrine. Most of them teach things that are just so outlandish and not Biblical I don't even know why they're called Christian. Bill Johnson taught that Jesus performed miracles as a man (not as God) and so therefore he could pursue his lifestyle.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Victim of Hillsong Church founder's father describes ordeal

Felt like he'd been murdered

www.9news.com.au

Frank Houston was a ‘serial paedophile’ and extent of his crimes may never be known, court hears

Trial hears Frank Houston also told his son Brian, founder of Hillsong, that he was abused by his own grandfather as a child

www.theguardian.com

Former Bethel leader speaks out on church's beliefs, grave sucking and gold dust

A former leader at Bethel Church in Redding, California, which is often criticized for some of its charismatic practices, has broken her silence and responded to some of the more common criticisms of ...

www.christianpost.com

The False Teaching of Steven Furtick

Steven Furtick Steven Furtick is a very popular speaker. He’s clearly a gifted communicator, and – based on the growth of his congregations – likely a gifted leader as well. As the founder and pastor of Elevation Church – home of the popular Christian music group Elevation Worship – he has a...

godwords.org

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If you see them in fits of crying or howling thats not the Holy Spirit they're having an encounter with. They're worshipping God not through faith but through lying signs and wonders.
View attachment 9857
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Bryan Houston and Steven Furtick exhalt themselves above God because they teach their own doctrine rather than Gods doctrine, therefore replacing his with theirs.

I don't think I realized this before. I saw your first post and thought, clearly this guy hates Hillsong and made up a bunch of terrible stuff about them. But no, apparently.

That said, if there isn't anything wrong in a particular song, what's wrong with using that song? I wholeheartedly agree that discernment is extremely important, especially among church leaders. But I don't see why that means that any church that uses their songs can't be trusted. If the church leaders can use their discernment to determine that a song is okay, then isn't that enough? What difference does it make who made the song?

 

[DinkyDine]

I don't think I realized this before. I saw your first post and thought, clearly this guy hates Hillsong and made up a bunch of terrible stuff about them. But no, apparently.

That said, if there isn't anything wrong in a particular song, what's wrong with using that song? I wholeheartedly agree that discernment is extremely important, especially among church leaders. But I don't see why that means that any church that uses their songs can't be trusted. If the church leaders can use their discernment to determine that a song is okay, then isn't that enough? What difference does it make who made the song?

Thats like saying Satan's a bad guy, but whats wrong with singing his music?. It makes a difference who made the song because are you really willing to sing the songs of false prophets, fornicators, adulterers and liars?. You're not supposed to affirm of their work and the more you do the more their work spreads and others will be influenced by it wrongly as you were previously thinking they were fine. Its like thinking listening to Marilyn Manson is fine because some of his music doesn't have satanic messaging in it.

 

[DinkyDine]

All relate to those three megachurches.

 

[9DB]

Couldn't your statement also be true for a lot of classical hymns and songs as well? We have no way to know if the people who wrote those had sound biblical doctrine or not either.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Thats like saying Satan's a bad guy, but whats wrong with singing his music?. It makes a difference who made the song because are you really willing to sing the songs of false prophets, fornicators, adulterers and liars?. You're not supposed to affirm of their work and the more you do the more their work spreads and others will be influenced by it wrongly as you were previously thinking they were fine. Its like thinking listening to Marilyn Manson is fine because some of his music doesn't have satanic messaging in it.

What about Splatoon? I don't know how much this is true (although I suspect it is) but this game's community is often seen as being full of LGBT people. Does that mean we shouldn't play Splatoon because we'd be affirming that game and, by extension, its community? Of course not. Following this kind of logic is how you get people who won't do anything even remotely connected to secular things. (often citing 1 Thessalonians 5:22 KJV "abstain from all appearance of evil" even though the "appearance" of evil isn't at all what that is talking about, which is why newer translations translate it differently). I can't think of an example off of the top of my head but I've seen it get pretty extreme.

View attachment 9859
All relate to those three megachurches.

These passages urge believers to beware of false teachers and to not be deceived, so it's important to be careful with songs from these churches, but if the song itself is fine then there's no reason to not sing it; how would we be deceived?

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Take "what a beautiful name" for example. Sure, it's not the most deep song theologically, but not every song has to be. It's a beautiful song about how Jesus has the power.

Its like thinking listening to Marilyn Manson is fine because some of his music doesn't have satanic messaging in it.

Also, it is what comes out of a man that defiles him, not what goes in (see mark 7:14-23). We should certainly be mindful of what we take in, but it certainly isn't a sin to listen to theologically questionable "Christian" music or even secular music.

 

[briank913]

What about Splatoon? I don't know how much this is true (although I suspect it is) but this game's community is often seen as being full of LGBT people. Does that mean we shouldn't play Splatoon because we'd be affirming that game and, by extension, its community? Of course not. Following this kind of logic is how you get people who won't do anything even remotely connected to secular things. (often citing 1 Thessalonians 5:22 KJV "abstain from all appearance of evil" even though the "appearance" of evil isn't at all what that is talking about, which is why newer translations translate it differently). I can't think of an example off of the top of my head but I've seen it get pretty extreme.

I doubt Nintendo wanted to make a franchise that would garner gender and sexuality-obsessed zealots in 2014-15. I would call it an unintended consequence (unless Nintendo explicitly comes out affirming this). The JP fanbase from what I gather care about the game itself unlike the West who wants to use everything to make it about themselves and their virtue signaling.

With morality declining across not just America but the world, we must remember a beautiful prayer of Jesus in John 17, especially the part where we prays that He not take us out of the world but that God protects us because we are not of the world. We have to go into the world because we have the cure to the perpetual cancer known as sin that manifests itself in so many ways. We can't always stay within the safety of the church building and the comfort of being around believers: we have to go out into where darkness permeates so that the light of Christ can shine. That's the point of the Great Commission after all: to make disciples of all nations and to proclaim the good news to all (Matt 28:18-20/Luke 16:15). We can't control how people will respond, but it doesn't excuse us from not doing it.

I am an aspiring missionary to Japan, where ancestor worship and nature worship through Shintoism prevents people from embracing Jesus as the one true Lord. Spiritual darkness is real if you go to touristy places like Asakusa, red light districts, and places like maid cafes. But the overabundant darkness is more the reason to compel me to go, that I can help "make disciples of all nations."

And it's for that reason as well that I'll stay in Inkopolis.

 

[DinkyDine]

Take "what a beautiful name" for example. Sure, it's not the most deep song theologically, but not every song has to be. It's a beautiful song about how Jesus has the power.



Also, it is what comes out of a man that defiles him, not what goes in (see mark 7:14-23). We should certainly be mindful of what we take in, but it certainly isn't a sin to listen to theologically questionable "Christian" music or even secular music.

What goes in affects the man, a saved person can still be affected by the individuals around them and backslide. If you listen to questionable music (especially music thats produced by occultists under the guise of Christianity) you're going to give them recognition, spread their word and even recite some of their phrases.

 

[DinkyDine]

What goes in affects the man, a saved person can still be affected by the individuals around them and backslide. If you listen to questionable music (especially music thats produced by occultists under the guise of Christianity) you're going to give them recognition, spread their word and even recite some of their phrases.

That doesn't mean an individual who is saved can lose salvation as salvation is eternal, but that means that the individual backslides and falls back into activities that are sinful and wrong.

 

[DinkyDine]

What goes in affects the man, a saved person can still be affected by the individuals around them and backslide. If you listen to questionable music (especially music thats produced by occultists under the guise of Christianity) you're going to give them recognition, spread their word and even recite some of their phrases.

Also I'm fairly sure God would be thoroughly displeased if I was singing music from occultists with vague Christian messaging that could really mean anything.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

What goes in affects the man, a saved person can still be affected by the individuals around them and backslide.

That doesn't mean an individual who is saved can lose salvation as salvation is eternal, but that means that the individual backslides and falls back into activities that are sinful and wrong.

Yes. This is why discernment is important. But if there's nothing wrong with the song itself, then this isn't an issue, because what's going in is perfectly fine.

If you listen to questionable music (especially music thats produced by occultists under the guise of Christianity) you're going to give them recognition, spread their word and even recite some of their phrases.

This is also true. This is a valid reason to avoid their songs, but it doesn't mean that it's sinful not to (see the splatoon example I used earlier).

Also I'm fairly sure God would be thoroughly displeased if I was singing music from occultists with vague Christian messaging that could really mean anything.

This is the part I disagree with. God generally tells us what he doesn't like; for example, I know that we need to listen to songs that teach truth because Philippians 4:8 says to meditate on what is true, honorable, just, pure, etc.
Do you have verses that back up what you're saying He would be displeased by?

As for false teachers, we need to be careful to avoid what 2 Timothy 4:3-4 describes (surrounding ourselves with false teaching and falling into myths). But if we're only using the songs that teach truth, where's the issue?

To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding these bands entirely, and if someone is struggling with discerning which music is good, then I certainly think it's a good idea to. I just don't see any reason why it would be a sin to not avoid them.

 

[DinkyDine]

Yes. This is why discernment is important. But if there's nothing wrong with the song itself, then this isn't an issue, because what's going in is perfectly fine.



This is also true. This is a valid reason to avoid their songs, but it doesn't mean that it's sinful not to (see the splatoon example I used earlier).



This is the part I disagree with. God generally tells us what he doesn't like; for example, I know that we need to listen to songs that teach truth because Philippians 4:8 says to meditate on what is true, honorable, just, pure, etc.
Do you have verses that back up what you're saying He would be displeased by?

As for false teachers, we need to be careful to avoid what 2 Timothy 4:3-4 describes (surrounding ourselves with false teaching and falling into myths). But if we're only using the songs that teach truth, where's the issue?

To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding these bands entirely, and if someone is struggling with discerning which music is good, then I certainly think it's a good idea to. I just don't see any reason why it would be a sin to not avoid them.

So you would willingly listen to music from false prophets because it teaches some sort of vague form or truth? The actual doctrinal soundness of their music is quite questionable.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

So you would willingly listen to music from false prophets because it teaches some sort of vague form or truth? The actual doctrinal soundness of their music is quite questionable.

I think each song should be assessed on its own merits. But yes, overall they are very questionable, I just think that the ones that aren't are fine to use. Who made the song isn't really relevant imo.

 

[9DB]

If the song in itself contains truth, then there is no harm in it. However, not every song does have truth in it. We need to discern. Because some are heretical does not mean all of them are.

However, do keep in mind where the song came from.

 

[DinkyDine]

I think each song should be assessed on its own merits. But yes, overall they are very questionable, I just think that the ones that aren't are fine to use. Who made the song isn't really relevant imo.

You still shouldn't listen to music from morally corrupt individuals who cannot even preach the word of God properly