Are two shot weapons viable?

[MakesDream]

the only pressure I feel from a rapid blaster is the pressure of beating the rest of my team to the kill when we all minrange it

rapid blasters can't do **** against anyone who actually knows how bad they are

everybody knows how bad a rapid blaster is though. A rapid blasters job is to make sure that he's not in a situation where flanking him is easy. Plus it's not just me, it's my whole team you have to go through in order to get to me (if I play right.) Splatoon is unique in that there aren't many situations where you can move through an area undetected, yes every once in a while I will get flanked because I don't pay attention but if you try to move through our territory I can just outrange you and cover up your swimming trail

Other weapons are purely better because they have the ability to thrive in a variety of ranges. and yes, unlike the jet squelcher, the rapid blaster lacks subs that grant it close range power, but the rapid blaster is able to make up for it in pure firing power and the aoe effect of blasters.

If you feel pressure of beating the rest of your team to a kill, that's just bad play in general. Play as a team not a kdr machine. Even if you're right and the rapid blaster sucks this bad, getting the whole opposing team to chase me while the other 3 players on my team can take the tower, zone, or rainmaker will definitely give us the advantage.

 

[flc]

you say that you shouldn't be in an easily-flanked position as a rapid blaster, but then you say that your team will be between you and whomever knows how to minrange a blaster. these two things do not add up, because the way to prevent flanks is to watch them, not stack up as 4. even if this hyperbole, the fact is that for a rapid blaster to not get minranged, it has to engage targets in its effective range exclusively. being in a defensive position allows this, but unlike other blasters, unless you score a direct hit, your shots are not enough to dissuade anyone who understands that they're only taking about 25 damage a pop (which is not at all threatening).

this game is not unique in the sense you describe at all; if anything, it's easier to be undetected in this game compared to a game like csgo or halo where your bullet sounds and footsteps are audible from across the map.

speaking of hyperbole, my point in that first sentence was not that I go in that hard for kills (I mean ****, I main elitre, I don't go in at all), but that you say the rapid blaster is a pressure weapon in spite of it failing at pressuring anything at all. the 96 gal is a pressure weapon. you walk into its line of fire and take a hit, you have to retreat. the js is a pressure weapon. you get prefired by a js, and you have to back away. the elitre is a pressure weapon. if you see it shoot down a corridor, you aren't taking that corridor. the rapid blaster is not a pressure weapon. you see the blaster explosion and realise it's being fired too fast to be a regular blaster, so you waltz straight on by and kill the guy.

 

[LMG]

I'm pretty sure it's longer.

Only slightly, it's almost identical (without taking the shot's explosion radius into account)

 

[Noise Tank]

of course you're going to think the rapid blaster sucks if you suck. I mean it's a blaster. All you have to do is aim in the general direction of an enemy, stay within your optimal range. put on your damage ups and try your best to get direct hits when they get close. All there is to any blaster.

Only slightly, it's almost identical (without taking the shot's explosion radius into account)

I guess you could say the blaster and range blaster have almost identical ranges too since they have the same range difference.

 

[LMG]

I guess you could say the blaster and range blaster have almost identical ranges too since they have the same range difference.

Those two have a far greater difference in range. When I said "almost identical" it was because the difference between hitting with a Rapid Blaster vs hitting with the Range Blaster is extremely, extremely minimal. I'll run a test later to make sure

 

[Aweshucks]

of course you're going to think the rapid blaster sucks if you suck.

so what you're saying is that everyone in this thread who thinks the rapid blaster is *** is bad at the game?

Sorry, @flc . Turns out you suck

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I'm not sure which hurts more right now, my ego, my pride or my brain

 

[Friendan]

The reason the rapid blaster is bad is that when you use a blaster you have to jump,

No, you shouldn't jump while shooting unless you miss your first shot. It's horrible to jump, even the "small degree" of inaccuracy normal blasters do makes it extremely luck reliant.
Anyways, Rapid Blaster is pretty bad. I always facetank them when unless I'm using a roller, and I almost never die to them unless they pop a bubble. Rapid Blasters are a joke.

 

[flc]

of course you're going to think the rapid blaster sucks if you suck. I mean it's a blaster. All you have to do is aim in the general direction of an enemy, stay within your optimal range. put on your damage ups and try your best to get direct hits when they get close. All there is to any blaster.

top ****ing kek

"all you have to do is hope the other guy isn't a complete idiot and doesn't abuse your minrange"
"try your best to get directs when they get close (of which you need two to kill and can only fire once every half a second)"

please tell me this is a troll post

 

[Noise Tank]

Sorry, @flc . Turns out you suck

ya, better wait for big bro to actually contribute something relevant to the discussion

top ****ing kek

"all you have to do is hope the other guy isn't a complete idiot and doesn't abuse your minrange"
"try your best to get directs when they get close (of which you need two to kill and can only fire once every half a second)"

please tell me this is a troll post

what you're saying is that in a perfect 1vs1 scenario with no abilities where both players are facing each other on an even surface, the rapid blaster would lose if the other guy isn't a complete idiot

insightful. ty for your input...

 

[Aweshucks]

So I don't know what I'm talking about and have to rely on others to make arguments for me?

Do you have any actual arguments or are you just going to make personal attacks?

 

[Noise Tank]

Do you have any actual arguments or are you just going to make personal attacks?

jeez sorry for the personal attack didn't mean to hurt your feelings

you said on the last page that you need more practice, yet you're offering up an objective opinion on a weapon you don't even know how to play. makes no sense.

Rapid blaster embarrasses every other blaster, especially in TC. As a matter of fact, every game I've played without an enemy sniper in this rotation, I've been able to wall the whole team mostly by myself from the main sniper post. It's ridiculously easy to do too. If you got dmg ups on and someone tries to approach you, it's ohko 80% of the time, so that isn't an issue either. If it isn't a ohko, it's not to big of a deal since you can either just throw an inkmine down to set a "time limit" on the fire fight or not suck at juking and get that extra bit of splash damage.

Not about to sit here and type up a guide, but can't see how someone can discuss something so confidently when they can't consistently hold their own in S rank with it.

 

[Aweshucks]

jeez sorry for the personal attack didn't mean to hurt your feelings

You didn't hurt my feelings, but personal attacks don't have any place in this thread.

you said on the last page that you need more practice, yet you're offering up an objective opinion on a weapon you don't even know how to play. makes no sense.

If you actually read that, you would know that I was talking about the bamboozler. I have more than enough experience with the rapid blaster to form an opinion on it. Also, there's no such thing as an "objective opinion".

And no one here is arguing that the rapid blaster can't be used well. It certainly can and I've seen plenty of great players using the rapid blaster very effectively. But that doesn't mean anything. Mew2King might be able to body people with Pichu, but that doesn't mean that Pichu is a good character. Someone might be able to play well in comp TF2 with a demoknight, but that doesn't mean you're not better off using a sticky launcher. Whether or not it can be played well is not what we're discussing here. We're discussing whether it's good compared to the other weapons. And it isn't. It has the slowest time to kill of any weapon except for some chargers and the dynamo (I think. I may be misremembering this. But the time to kill is still absolute trash). And that's only if you get two direct shots. It only works well when you're properly spaced and engaging the opponent at max range, but it's also one of the easiest weapons to rush down. You're correct in saying that one of its strengths is attacking the tower. It's pretty decent at that, but there are better weapons for doing that as well. Custom Blaster has a much better sub in the form of point sensors, and one hit kill (likely two if you're attacking the tower, though. makes up for it by being aoe), and can hold its own significantly better when challenged by the opponent. I don't have too much time with the range blaster, but I've talked with several people who are very experienced with it and they all agree it's better at attacking the tower than the rapid blaster. Chargers can also attack the tower very effectively. As can rollers. You can see where I'm going here. It may have a strength in attacking the tower, but so do many other weapons which do better in the rest of the game as well.

Again, we're not talking about how well someone can play with the rapid blaster, but how good it is compared to other weapons in the game

 

[River09]

Agreed with Aweshucks. Rapid Blaster is overshadowed by so many things. Anything it can do can be done by another weapon but better. Any engagement it has requires the opponent to be at its extremely short effective range and if they are anywhere outside that you're practically done for. If you want a blaster with range, go for the Range Blaster. At least then it has Wall to help fight up close so it doesn't get completely bodied and has a decent amount of fire power. If we're talking the Rapid Blaster Deco just take the Splash-o-matic. It has the same kit except it can build up one of the best specials (Suction Bomb Rush) in the game quickly.

 

[LMG]

Alright test done. The Rapid Blaster does not have a huge advantage over the Range Blaster in terms of maximum range, but it's more than what I gave it credit for. At the maximum range that the Rapid Blaster can score a direct hit, the Range Blaster will only be able to hit the enemy with the explosion, dealing about 58 damage (considering that the lowest I could get was 50, that means it was fairly close to not being able to hit). At the maximum range that the Rapid Blaster can score an undirect hit, the Range Blaster will not be able to hit anything, not even with the explosion.

One thing I would say is that I highly suggest using the Rapid Blaster with Damage Ups to increase the damage of undirect hits. The lowest I could get was 25 at the very tip of the explosion with no Damage Ups, so with 1 main and a couple of subs it should only require 3 undirect hits to splat at most (and it increases the chances of only requiring 2)

 

[flc]

what you're saying is that in a perfect 1vs1 scenario with no abilities where both players are facing each other on an even surface, the rapid blaster would lose if the other guy isn't a complete idiot

insightful. ty for your input...

well, aside from the fact that your input so far has been "only people who suck think that rapid blaster sucks", what others are saying in this thread about the rapid blaster's weaknesses are the same arguments that I would be making.

but since you insist on being proved wrong, how's about I get that input for you.

first, the kits. mine/bubbler is a combination of the worst sub in the game with a special that, while good on paper, is too unreliable due to the amount of time it takes for the rapid blaster to build special and the fact that it does nothing to alleviate the rapid blaster's minrange problems. the superior kit is, without question, suction rush--but, while rapid deco is definitely useable on account of its sub/special, it shares said sub/special with the splash, which is just better at building and using suction rush on account of it not having to stack damage ups (which are useless for suctions, lest we forget).

second, the weapon. as I've already stated, it has a problem with minrange, just like all blasters; anyone who gets close enough to you must be direct hit. most blasters have the ability to at least oneshot people who get close every now and then. rapid blaster does not have this luxury on account of it never being able to oneshot. perhaps you will have got a hit on them while they crossed your effective range (which is about 30 range units across, by the way), but that only puts you in the same situation as every other blaster: you have garbage move speed, are locked out of squidding for a while, and have a significant delay between pressing the trigger and the shot leaving your gun. this makes it much harder to score a direct hit on anyone who is doing what they're supposed to be doing against blasters, i.e. circlestrafing and getting as close as possible. considering that this works with everything from shooters to gatlings to chargers to ****mothering splat bombs, that's a pretty serious problem.

third, the use cases. the thing that people keep saying is that the weapon is good at pressure. what people are misunderstanding is that all the rapid blaster does to pressure enemies is give them the illusion that they're being shot by a normal blaster, which does exert pressure by its ability to twoshot with relative ease. people respect rapid blasters too much due to their conditioning against blasters that actually deal damage, and as a result, the rapid blaster is able to get away with that much more. in reality, once a player (or especially a team) understands that rapid blasters are what they are, they are then able to disrespect them on account of the fact that even with stacked damage ups, the blaster needs to land 3 non-direct hits in order to kill. there is no pressure when the other team doesn't care if you're shooting at them; all they need to do is swim into your minrange, shoot you three times, and you drop. or they're using a forge or js or something and just shoot you straight up, because their 20 frame ttk is safe from trades against a 60+ frame ttk. furthermore, because the blaster must be positioned very precisely, any peeking weapon (mainly chargers, but also gatlings) can simply line up a shot, pre-charge, peek the corner and pop you without even having to see where you are (speaking from experience here, it's one of the two main reasons that chargers hard counter blasters and why blasters will never be meta).

fourth, opportunity cost. in order to have a rapid blaster on your team, going by the semi-standard team comp of forge/deco/js/3k, you would have to give something up in order to run it. while one could argue that the forge or 3k could be dropped depending on the map, the question is simply whether or not dropping a reliable, zooka-wielding, long-range weapon with wallhacks for a sub, or alternatively, dropping the strongest main weapon in the game (which also happens to have global wallhacks for a special) just so you can pressure an opponent is actually worth it. the answer, and I think I can speak for every good team (even my own rapid-blaster-maining teammate, Despicable) on this, is "lol no".

 

[SupaTim]

well, aside from the fact that your input so far has been "only people who suck think that rapid blaster sucks", what others are saying in this thread about the rapid blaster's weaknesses are the same arguments that I would be making.

but since you insist on being proved wrong, how's about I get that input for you.

first, the kits. mine/bubbler is a combination of the worst sub in the game with a special that, while good on paper, is too unreliable due to the amount of time it takes for the rapid blaster to build special and the fact that it does nothing to alleviate the rapid blaster's minrange problems. the superior kit is, without question, suction rush--but, while rapid deco is definitely useable on account of its sub/special, it shares said sub/special with the splash, which is just better at building and using suction rush on account of it not having to stack damage ups (which are useless for suctions, lest we forget).

second, the weapon. as I've already stated, it has a problem with minrange, just like all blasters; anyone who gets close enough to you must be direct hit. most blasters have the ability to at least oneshot people who get close every now and then. rapid blaster does not have this luxury on account of it never being able to oneshot. perhaps you will have got a hit on them while they crossed your effective range (which is about 30 range units across, by the way), but that only puts you in the same situation as every other blaster: you have garbage move speed, are locked out of squidding for a while, and have a significant delay between pressing the trigger and the shot leaving your gun. this makes it much harder to score a direct hit on anyone who is doing what they're supposed to be doing against blasters, i.e. circlestrafing and getting as close as possible. considering that this works with everything from shooters to gatlings to chargers to ****mothering splat bombs, that's a pretty serious problem.

third, the use cases. the thing that people keep saying is that the weapon is good at pressure. what people are misunderstanding is that all the rapid blaster does to pressure enemies is give them the illusion that they're being shot by a normal blaster, which does exert pressure by its ability to twoshot with relative ease. people respect rapid blasters too much due to their conditioning against blasters that actually deal damage, and as a result, the rapid blaster is able to get away with that much more. in reality, once a player (or especially a team) understands that rapid blasters are what they are, they are then able to disrespect them on account of the fact that even with stacked damage ups, the blaster needs to land 3 non-direct hits in order to kill. there is no pressure when the other team doesn't care if you're shooting at them; all they need to do is swim into your minrange, shoot you three times, and you drop. or they're using a forge or js or something and just shoot you straight up, because their 20 frame ttk is safe from trades against a 60+ frame ttk. furthermore, because the blaster must be positioned very precisely, any peeking weapon (mainly chargers, but also gatlings) can simply line up a shot, pre-charge, peek the corner and pop you without even having to see where you are (speaking from experience here, it's one of the two main reasons that chargers hard counter blasters and why blasters will never be meta).

fourth, opportunity cost. in order to have a rapid blaster on your team, going by the semi-standard team comp of forge/deco/js/3k, you would have to give something up in order to run it. while one could argue that the forge or 3k could be dropped depending on the map, the question is simply whether or not dropping a reliable, zooka-wielding, long-range weapon with wallhacks for a sub, or alternatively, dropping the strongest main weapon in the game (which also happens to have global wallhacks for a special) just so you can pressure an opponent is actually worth it. the answer, and I think I can speak for every good team (even my own rapid-blaster-maining teammate, Despicable) on this, is "lol no".

This is actually much more helpful than your joking "pressure" response. I understand that you have some great tips on youtube with as well. Perhaps this sort of information could be compiled in text form here on the boards so that we can point people to it instead of you guys having to repeat yourselves.

It might also cut down on the snarkiness on both sides?

 

[flc]

This is actually much more helpful than your joking "pressure" response. I understand that you have some great tips on youtube with as well. Perhaps this sort of information could be compiled in text form here on the boards so that we can point people to it instead of you guys having to repeat yourselves.

It might also cut down on the snarkiness on both sides?

while I generally do try to avoid snarkiness, and further apologise for being snarky to begin with, I don't think compiling opinions here will do anything but give us a nice wall of text that will only be read by the people who do not need to read it

 

[redacteddd]

How about some speculation about the Rapid blaster Pro?

 

[flc]

How about some speculation about the Rapid blaster Pro?

it's a rapid blaster that gets minranged by a forge pro at max range

I mean it could be ok but it seems so unlikely at this point