Bringing Back OG Bubbler

[missingno]

It is the same problem though. It still invalidates OHKO weapons.

 

[OnePotWonder]

It is the same problem though. It still invalidates OHKO weapons.

As does literally any other form of armour because it’d be useless if it didn’t. And no, it’s not the same problem, because this Bubbler rework is also strong against chip damage and rapid fire weapons. It invalidates everything equally rather than being completely weighted against one-shots like Ink Armor.

Come up with a new argument, or go somewhere else. I’m beyond tired of giving the same response every single time you try to argue against this.

 

[SAMICOM]

THIS IS NOT INK ARMOR.

IT LITERALLY IS

 

[SAMICOM]

As does literally any other form of armour because it’d be useless if it didn’t. And no, it’s not the same problem, because this Bubbler rework is also strong against chip damage and rapid fire weapons. It invalidates everything equally rather than being completely weighted against one-shots like Ink Armor.

Come up with a new argument, or go somewhere else. I’m beyond tired of giving the same response every single time you try to argue against this.

armor just does not fit in splatoon. sorry

 

[OnePotWonder]

IT LITERALLY IS

armor just does not fit in splatoon. sorry

You just lost the last bit of respect I had for you. You have to be an idiot if you cannot tell the difference between a bubble with 100 HP that can only be shared through direct contact and instant-chaining, 30 HP armour. 90% of the time a Bubbler will only affect a single player, so of course it's supposed to be fairly overpowered. Maybe, instead of instantly trying to come up with a reason why something wouldn't work when you see it, you take a moment to use what little brain you have and imagine how it would actually work in-game, then realize "hey, that would actually be pretty goddamn cool"? THINK. You and missingno, maybe try imagining the special's matchup with a shooter instead of only blasters, rollers, and chargers. Same exact result, no matter the weapon fighting it; it's always a huge advantage. No weapons invalidated; defensive special design fixed.

 

[SAMICOM]

You just lost the last bit of respect I had for you. You have to be an idiot if you cannot tell the difference between a bubble with 100 HP that can only be shared through direct contact and instant-chaining, 30 HP armour. 90% of the time a Bubbler will only affect a single player, so of course it's supposed to be fairly overpowered. Maybe, instead of instantly trying to come up with a reason why something wouldn't work when you see it, you take a moment to use what little brain you have and imagine how it would actually work in-game, then realize "hey, that would actually be pretty goddamn cool"? THINK. You and missingno, maybe try imagining the special's matchup with a shooter instead of only blasters, rollers, and chargers. Same exact result, no matter the weapon fighting it; it's always a huge advantage. No weapons invalidated; defensive special design fixed.

first mistake was having any respect for me

 

[missingno]

Just because you've made a few surface-level tweaks doesn't mean you've addressed the deeper underlying problem. It doesn't have to be 1:1 identical to Ink Armor to still share the same issues.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Just because you've made a few surface-level tweaks doesn't mean you've addressed the deeper underlying problem. It doesn't have to be 1:1 identical to Ink Armor to still share the same issues.

Surface-level tweaks? My brother in squid, this is literally based off of a different special.
Just because a special provides an HP shield and can chain to teammates doesn't make it Ink Armor. Stop acting like it is.

And pray tell, what deeper underlying problem is there with Ink Armor that this Bubbler rework fails to address? Because if there is one, it's not obvious in the slightest.

 

[missingno]

Doesn't matter what you were trying to base it on, you ended up reinventing Ink Armor in the end. And if you're not seeing the problem, then I don't think you understood Ink Armor.

 

[SAMICOM]

Surface-level tweaks? My brother in squid, this is literally based off of a different special.
Just because a special provides an HP shield and can chain to teammates doesn't make it Ink Armor. Stop acting like it is.

And pray tell, what deeper underlying problem is there with Ink Armor that this Bubbler rework fails to address? Because if there is one, it's not obvious in the slightest.

I'm just saying, have you even played splatoon 2

 

[OnePotWonder]

Doesn't matter what you were trying to base it on, you ended up reinventing Ink Armor in the end. And if you're not seeing the problem, then I don't think you understood Ink Armor.

I think you have no argument. As has been typical of past threads.

If you're still trying to insinuate that this special concept is too strong against one-shot weapons, I kindly recommend you make your way to the nearest mental facility. Requiring an extra shot or flick to splat as a blaster, roller, or charger is not worse than having your first five shots completely nullified as a shooter or dualie. Obviously. End of discussion there.

Even if we look at all of other weapon classes, there are no issues. Splatlings could be particularly strong into Bubbler, but that's fine because they've always needed a niche to help them contend with chargers. Brellas, Sloshers, and Splatanas could fight Bubbler the same way they fight normally. Stringers would be excellent at shredding Bubbler from a distance. Brushes would be particularly weak into Bubbler, but they could wait out its duration with their evasiveness.

So, you have nothing, unless I've somehow forgotten some horrible aspect of Ink Armor that somehow applies to the Bubbler rework.

 

[SAMICOM]

I think you have no argument. As has been typical of past threads.

If you're still trying to insinuate that this special concept is too strong against one-shot weapons, I kindly recommend you make your way to the nearest mental facility. Requiring an extra shot or flick to splat as a blaster, roller, or charger is not worse than having your first five shots completely nullified as a shooter or dualie. Obviously. End of discussion there.

Even if we look at all of other weapon classes, there are no issues. Splatlings could be particularly strong into Bubbler, but that's fine because they've always needed a niche to help them contend with chargers. Brellas, Sloshers, and Splatanas could fight Bubbler the same way they fight normally. Stringers would be excellent at shredding Bubbler from a distance. Brushes would be particularly weak into Bubbler, but they could wait out its duration with their evasiveness.

So, you have nothing, unless I've somehow forgotten some horrible aspect of Ink Armor that somehow applies to the Bubbler rework.

WEAPON CLASS BIAS ON A SPECIAL IS A BAD IDEA

 

[OnePotWonder]

WEAPON CLASS BIAS ON A SPECIAL IS A BAD IDEA

EVERY SPECIAL HAS WEAPON CLASS BIAS.
Wave Breaker and Killer Wail 5.1 are notably strong into dualies.
Triple Inkstrike and Tenta Missiles and Zipcaster are all strongest into the backline classes.
Tri-Zooka and Kraken Royale are weaker into shooters and brushes.
Crab Tank and Inkjet are vulnerable to AoE weapons.
Ultra Stamp is weak into shooters and chargers but runs over sloshers and rollers.

Class bias is nearly unavoidable, so it might as well be class bias that favors an underappreciated weapon type. And it's not an "idea", it's a side effect that exists due to how weapon class strengths work.

 

[SAMICOM]

EVERY SPECIAL HAS WEAPON CLASS BIAS.
Wave Breaker and Killer Wail 5.1 are notably strong into dualies.
Triple Inkstrike and Tenta Missiles and Zipcaster are all strongest into the backline classes.
Tri-Zooka and Kraken Royale are weaker into shooters and brushes.
Crab Tank and Inkjet are vulnerable to AoE weapons.
Ultra Stamp is weak into shooters and chargers but runs over sloshers and rollers.

Class bias is nearly unavoidable, so it might as well be class bias that favors an underappreciated weapon type. And it's not an "idea", it's a side effect that exists due to how weapon class strengths work.

But not a defensive one

 

[OnePotWonder]

But not a defensive one

This isn't even a proper sentence; you aren't worth my time.

 

[Algae]

EVERY SPECIAL HAS WEAPON CLASS BIAS. ... might as well be class bias that favors an underappreciated weapon type. And it's not an "idea", it's a side effect that exists due to how weapon class strengths work.

Sometimes this works better than other times, ultra stamp feels like a hard counter to those without line-of-sight weapons (either bucket flings don't work and the running mode is a stronger baller/kraken, or you have a shooter or splatling and have the guts to splat the hammer user from the front).

Since users of bubbler or tacticooler can stray from each other for more flanking-oriented plays, I strongly suggest that you lose your bubble sooner if you move far away from the special user.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Sometimes this works better than other times, ultra stamp feels like a hard counter to those without line-of-sight weapons (either bucket flings don't work and the running mode is a stronger baller/kraken, or you have a shooter or splatling and have the guts to splat the hammer user from the front).

Since users of bubbler or tacticooler can stray from each other for more flanking-oriented plays, I strongly suggest that you lose your bubble sooner if you move far away from the special user.

The bubble already has a fairly short duration; if a player is taking the time to flank after touching the player with the special, they'll already only have the special for one or two seconds once they get in position. Though I do understand your worry.

 

[isaac4]

I think this rework could work in a new game that's built around having these types of specials.
Something as simple as more verticality in the map design or more paintable walls would make it easier to avoid being stuck in a situation where you're in a 1v1 against a player with Bubbler active.
There's a lot more that could help a special like this not be too big of a problem, especially since it can't be chained from just anywhere in the map.
Maybe decreasing the time by one second would also be good? It's really hard to imagine the best way to execute this idea with the poor track record the Splatoon series has had with invincible or other hp specials.

 

[isaac4]

Of course, this reworked Bubbler would still be a problem for certain weapon classes but that's to be expected from an
HP special.

 

[missingno]

EVERY SPECIAL HAS WEAPON CLASS BIAS.
Wave Breaker and Killer Wail 5.1 are notably strong into dualies.
Triple Inkstrike and Tenta Missiles and Zipcaster are all strongest into the backline classes.
Tri-Zooka and Kraken Royale are weaker into shooters and brushes.
Crab Tank and Inkjet are vulnerable to AoE weapons.
Ultra Stamp is weak into shooters and chargers but runs over sloshers and rollers.

Class bias is nearly unavoidable, so it might as well be class bias that favors an underappreciated weapon type. And it's not an "idea", it's a side effect that exists due to how weapon class strengths work.

All of these specials affect only one player, and half of them are really only soft counters. Ink Armor v2 allows the entire team to all hard counter certain classes. That's why it was such a big deal to the point that those classes were kept out of the meta in S2.