Discussing Inkling/Octoling Biology

[Globin347]

Ah, what about squidboard's family friendly policy?

 

[BlackZero]

What could be more family friendly than the process of making one? ;)

 

[Globin347]

..........

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Not to mention you are taught about human-reproduction at a young age.
At least it was this way for me.

So I can't imagine it to be a problem, if you keep a proper wording. ;)

 

[Globin347]

...........

Well, keep it simple.
...Do Inklings lay eggs?

 

[BlackZero]

Considering squids do, I would imagine they would. This means, unless they've evolved into squid mammals, all that inkling and octoling fan-art has added something that shouldn't be there.

Also, squids usually die shortly after reproduction. I'm curious whether they've lost that trait via evolution, or if the suspicious lack of adults in game (save for one) means they still do. This could be why there's so much emphasis on enjoying childhood and also why the only thing vaguely resembling a military/SDF in this game is composed of minors instead of adults. They know that, as soon as they reach adulthood and move on to the next stage in their lives, they won't be around much longer. Kinda sad, when you think about it.

 

[aceofscarabs]

Considering squids do, I would imagine they would. This means, unless they've evolved into squid mammals, all that inkling and octoling fan-art has added something that shouldn't be there.

Also, squids usually die shortly after reproduction. I'm curious whether they've lost that trait via evolution, or if the suspicious lack of adults in game (save for one) means they still do. This could be why there's so much emphasis on enjoying childhood and also why the only thing vaguely resembling a military/SDF in this game is composed of minors instead of adults. They know that, as soon as they reach adulthood and move on to the next stage in their lives, they won't be around much longer. Kinda sad, when you think about it.

Given CPT Cuttlefish has granddaughters, natural selection has already chosen for Inklings who don't just up and die after mating season.

 

[Dolphoshi]

I feel the ban hammer above us

Though captain cuttlefish is the only adult squid (that we have seen) it could be that he considers them grand children but isn't biologically (maybe he found them or something)

because he never mentions anything about a wife/girlfriend (that is know of) in the main campaign because the great turf war could have prevented him from finding

a mate in time, because wars take time and the only adults we see are in the sunken scrolls during the great turf wars so I do believe that they die after mating

As for eggs seeing the baby inkling doesn't give us much but seeing how current squids lay eggs i am very doubtful that the inklings could evolve to live birth in so little of time but maybe the amount of eggs is much lower seeing how inkoplois isn't covered in squids

As for the act i'm sure that it would involve some sort of color change (some current day squids will turn red when mating to back off other males) this may explain why we don't see red ink in the game as "getting on" in the middle of battle probable isn't the best thing.

but other then getting banned I think thats all I can explain

 

[BlackZero]

Though captain cuttlefish is the only adult squid (that we have seen) it could be that he considers them grand children but isn't biologically (maybe he found them or something)

I was thinking along these lines. I didn't base this assumption on the fact that none appear in game (though that did get me started). There are actually a few subtle hints that their society lacks influence from mature adults.

Spoiler

Let's consider that the game implies that no one noticed or cared the Great Zapfish was stolen and subsequently returned. That could be because, being that there almost no adults, all the Inklings were too busy playing and didn't really appreciate the gravity of the situation. The only people who care are the only adult we see in the game, and the three Inklings that he recruits to fight the Octarians. If the United States suddenly lost its ability to generate power and had to rely on finite auxiliary batteries and generators, I doubt it would go unnoticed. Kids may not realize or understand what was happening, but adults would be very interested in the Great Zapfish disappearing if it was as essential as the game made it sound.

Furthermore, all the shops are run by non-Inklings, yet Inklings appear to be their largest consumer base. This suggests a society that does not have its own industry and devotes its time to playing games and buying products to achieve status. Sounds an awful lot like kids and adolescents who want certain clothes or join the school's sports team so their friends think they're cool. Most adults (in my experience, anyway) don't think this way unless they want to appeal to kids and pre-teens. Inkling-owned shops would make a killing, but something like starting a business requires a lot of time invested in learning how to run a business: something most 14 year olds aren't likely to take an interest in, especially if all their friends are playing Splat Games.

On top of that, there is a total disregard for what a long-time rival state is doing. As someone with a B.A. in International Affairs, I can say confidently that blissful ignorance or disregard of a hostile neighboring state that possesses the caliber of weaponry that the Octarians do is unheard of. The only plausible explanation is that Inkling foreign policy is inspired by their social norms and constructs. Basically, they don't care about Octarians (even though they should) because their society only values leisurely activities and being cool and is not concerned about the survival of the Inkling state.

As for eggs seeing the baby inkling doesn't give us much but seeing how current squids lay eggs i am very doubtful that the inklings could evolve to live birth in so little of time but maybe the amount of eggs is much lower seeing how inkoplois isn't covered in squids

Does this also mean baby inklings (like real squids) are largely self-sufficient after hatching? With little or no adults, it's not likely that they'd get any sort of parental care from a bunch of 14 year olds. As I understand it, laying eggs and hatching self-sufficient offspring is a superior to the very risky process of pregnancy, live birth, and then years of required parental care. If Squids evolved into complex human-like creatures while keeping their oviparous reproduction, they could easily claim and hold their place as the dominant species.

 

[Globin347]

Ah, yes... about that...

Animals that have fully independent offspring... There's a reason they have hundreds of thousands of children.

Only a fraction of those children live to adulthood. That's why.

Also, the fact that inklings have a culture at all suggests that they pass down information from generation to generation, which is hard to do without parental care.

Also, in order to consider Callie and Marie to be his grandchildren, Captain Cuttlefish would have to understand the concept of grandchildren.

Besides- if having fully independant children were truly superior, Parental care would never have evolved in the first place.

Spoiler: Spoiler

As for the lack of an inkling military...

Well, I assume inkopolis did have a fairly long lasting backup available, which explains the lack of panic...

Or this is "gameplay and story segregation", as it would be bad game design to prevent the player from playing turf wars until the single player campaign was finished.

But anyway,
Maybe they legitimately didn't know where too look, meaning Cuttlefish committed treason by not telling them.

Or perhaps DJ octavio is the leader of a terrorist group rather than of Octariankind as a whole. His forces are small and highly mobile, and the underground nature of the domes prevented a full-scale assault on the home base.

While the military occupied the majority of the enemy's might (you don't actually think that was all of octavio's military, do you?) Old war hero Cuttlefish was chosen to lead a small, highly mobile squad to steal the zapfish back...

Which he did by finding some kid off the street. He got really lucky, however, and the kid pulled it off.

Anyway, if you look at scroll #14, you can see what definately appears to be a military comprised of adults.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Yeah.

Squids and Octopi had a human evolution in this game, after all.
It isn't far of a stretch to think they live more like humans, including parental care and everything that comes with it.

So yeah, I do indeed think Callie and Marie are Cuttlefish's grandchildren.
Clearly implying parental care to be a thing in the humanized Squid-World.


And I do think they no longer lay eggs, but have become mammals.


The reason Cuttlefish is the only adult Inkling shown, I call simplicity.
Again Nintendo didn't expect this game to be a success.
So they kept everything simple.

I am sure, now where Splatoon become the giant success they never expect, they will do more world-building with this franchise, in later games.

 

[BlackZero]

Animals that have fully independent offspring... There's a reason they have hundreds of thousands of children.

Only a fraction of those children live to adulthood. That's why.

That may be, but we are talking about a highly evolved species that has developed human intellect. Humans are technically inferior to countless other species (slower, weaker, etc) save for our ability to reason. That gives us a far higher survival rate. If Inklings are highly evolved to the point of sapience, and they are born with a respectable degree of intelligence from day one, they would easily take over and firmly hold the place of dominant species. They could easily use their reasoning and natural defenses to minimize the threat from their main predators.

Also, the fact that inklings have a culture at all suggests that they pass down information from generation to generation, which is hard to do without parental care.

Not really. Look at Facebook. My 12 year old niece has no trouble chronicling her life on that site. Children aren't stupid, they are simply immature. There's a big difference. They have the ability to communicate and understand the spoken and written word. Even without Facebook, or social media, I knew many kids who kept written diaries/journals before the internet became mainstream. There's nothing in the world stopping them from passing that information on to others. Second, just because Inklings die shortly after reproduction doesn't mean they don't spend some time as adults before then. There's nothing stopping them from publishing information for the next generation to benefit from. Third, if they are born self-sufficient, they wouldn't be as reliant on parents for transmitted information.

Humanity in general has this strange arrogance that we somehow represent the pinnacle of evolution, and that any intelligent life must resemble us. If Star Trek taught me one thing, it is very arrogant indeed to assume all intelligent life will be just like humans. The game says Inklings underwent a human-style evolution. It says nothing about them being a perfect replica of us. I take that to mean they've developed a humanoid shape, and human intellect. A complete transition from squid to human life is not evolution, however. That's more of a metamorphosis. A jump from Cephalopoda to Mammalia in 13K years would be a biological miracle

Also, in order to consider Callie and Marie to be his grandchildren, Captain Cuttlefish would have to understand the concept of grandchildren.

So Inklings developed a means of tracking their ancestors and bloodlines. This is very easy to do and does not require parenting. It only requires the ability to keep records, which they are very capable of when it comes to Ranks,Splat Fest votes and purchased gear/weapons.

Besides- if having fully independant children were truly superior, Parental care would never have evolved in the first place.

Again, this assumes that humanity represents the pinnacle of evolution. It doesn't. It is one branch on a massive tree of life that started millions of years a go. Evolution doesn't have an end goal, it just does its thing. Live births and parental care didn't develop because they were superior, otherwise there wouldn't be oviparous animals anymore (or they would be phasing out). Live births and parenting simply developed.

Squids and Octopi had a human evolution in this game, after all.
It isn't far of a stretch to think they live more like humans, including parental care and everything that comes with it.

The game shows absolutely nothing that establishes this. The most we can say, based on Callie and Marie's concern for Cpt. Cuttlefish is that they've developed compassion, affection, and empathy. If they developed human intellect, they'd have the capacity for these traits regardless of whether or not they had parenting.

So yeah, I do indeed think Callie and Marie are Cuttlefish's grandchildren.
Clearly implying parental care to be a thing in the humanized Squid-World.

Not really. The game doesn't establish anything beyond them having a good relationship with each other. I have a good relationship with my boss. That doesn't mean she raised me.

The reason Cuttlefish is the only adult Inkling shown, I call simplicity.
Again Nintendo didn't expect this game to be a success.
So they kept everything simple.

It's rather arbitrary to throw that out considering we didn't accept the "eh, it's just a videogame" excuse for the physics defying ink or the anatomical miracle that is shifting between humanoid, fleshy forms and ink forms. I don't think we can use that here to explain away the lack of adult Inklings.

I am sure, now where Splatoon become the giant success they never expect, they will do more world-building with this franchise, in later games.

I hope so. Until then, I have to base my opinions on what is actually demonstrated in the game and through canonical sources. My observations on Inkling society still stand: they don't demonstrate the traits of a society under the active influence mature adults. Cpt. Cuttlefish is the only adult Inkling that is mentioned or acknowledged in the game.

 

[Dolphoshi]

I have to disagree on this one until we get more info we have to use what we have

the lack of adult inklings i don't think are pure coincidence (if splatoon 2 comes out and has adult i will shut up) the great turf war was a fairly recent event in

biology time cuttlefish has lived though two generations (in order to be a grandpa as you say) which if we guess the mature time for inklings is the same as

humans is 36 years AT LEAST that is plenty of time from society to change and they aren't the only thing in inkopplis (lol spelling) they could have easily learned

parenting skills from moe (clown fish) or even judd, the reason cuttlefish could have lived is very simple, every living thing has a time frame in which it can breed

for cuttlefish time easily could have ran out after fighting in the great turf war, so the only thing he could do is be a part of someones life (becuase what else is he
going to do i'm sure turf wars are boring compared to the great turf war.

as well for the tutorial you were most likey talking to your self to review before your first turf war as well as

your first look around the main town, if they wanted to have a military in the game the would have been one they would rework the story a bit (it's not hard to to),

when the great zapfish was stolen any reasonable adult government would have do something (cuttlefish was working be himself as at the end of the game he says "no one will thank you for this but me")

I doubt that if adults were in splatoon they would stay away for the turf war, one because thats what all the kids are doing two, money the pro inklings will make

about 5000 coins per match and seeing how a high end shirt costs around 10000 i will guess (this is a BIG guess) that the splatoon coin is equal to roughly the

same as a penny (as most high end shirts are around 100 dollar (i'm fashin dumbs so) fifty dollars per five minates (maybe less) which one equal $600 per hour (i take that) and well as all the inklings care about is fashin and turf wars (don't remember the scroll) so i don't know too many kids running for office and most of them don't understand the scope of the world

so socially and in my prevously biology it makes no sense to have adult inkings suvive after birth

As for the inkling adults we do see well not everyone is going to get the chance to "just do it" (like me) but the lack of adults in the city highly point that they die after child birth and there is another place they could learn parent skills because lets face it several years of turf war will get boring

 

[Globin347]

That may be, but we are talking about a highly evolved species that has developed human intellect. Humans are technically inferior to countless other species (slower, weaker, etc) save for our ability to reason. That gives us a far higher survival rate. If Inklings are highly evolved to the point of sapience, and they are born with a respectable degree of intelligence from day one, they would easily take over and firmly hold the place of dominant species. They could easily use their reasoning and natural defenses to minimize the threat from their main predators.

Perhaps, but I can't assume that inkling children are born with this great reasoning ability. Human children must learn to reason through experience.
Oceanic squid are able to be born independent because the things they have to do to survive are all natural extensions of bodily abilities.
While it's plausible that inkling children could be born independent, I find it hard to believe that they could be born instinctively knowing how to build weapons and shelters, and even harder to believe that a significant number of them could figure it out before they got eaten. As inklings look like us, it's fair to assume that they have similar weaknesses, and that their dominance is based on knowing how to build tools and weapons. It isn't the ability to reason itself that gives us our edge, but knowing how to use it, which doesn't come instinctively. Children aren't born knowing the complicated set of survival skills an animal like a human or inkling needs to survive, they are taught it. (once again, animals whose strength is based on this reasoning ability need to know a great deal more than animals whose strength is based on simply using their body.)

Not really. Look at Facebook. My 12 year old niece has no trouble chronicling her life on that site. Children aren't stupid, they are simply immature. There's a big difference. They have the ability to communicate and understand the spoken and written word. Even without Facebook, or social media, I knew many kids who kept written diaries/journals before the internet became mainstream. There's nothing in the world stopping them from passing that information on to others. Second, just because Inklings die shortly after reproduction doesn't mean they don't spend some time as adults before then. There's nothing stopping them from publishing information for the next generation to benefit from. Third, if they are born self-sufficient, they wouldn't be as reliant on parents for transmitted information.

Humanity in general has this strange arrogance that we somehow represent the pinnacle of evolution, and that any intelligent life must resemble us. If Star Trek taught me one thing, it is very arrogant indeed to assume all intelligent life will be just like humans. The game says Inklings underwent a human-style evolution. It says nothing about them being a perfect replica of us. I take that to mean they've developed a humanoid shape, and human intellect. A complete transition from squid to human life is not evolution, however. That's more of a metamorphosis. A jump from Cephalopoda to Mammalia in 13K years would be a biological miracle

...To some extent, you are right... the many children and few children methods both have strengths and weaknesses.
...Technically, I never said anything about humanity being inherently superior, but to be fair, i may have implied it.

But being able to teach one's children gives a significant advantage to a species which uses weapons, because these aren't natural extensions of the body.
Weapons weren't the result of some instinct humans had, they were invented when a few individuals learned that they could use things other than their bodies to fight, and the rest of the species picked up on it. This is culture, not instinct.

You may be under the impression that inkling adults could give the squidlings this information. In a well-developed society like that of Calamari county, that is indeed a possibility. But from an evolutionary standpoint, it makes no sense.
Parental care evolved from the desire to increase one's own genetic linage's chances of living on. Parents who taught there own children survival skills increased the chance that their own children, carrying their own genetic code, would survive. But if an individual in the wild teaches survival skills to other children, this has no benefit to it's own genetic line. In fact, it gives it's own children a disadvantage, because the competition has more information. As such, a species which does not live to see its own children would not develop a culture because at the most primitive stages of cultural development, there is no incentive to pass information to the next generation.

Again, this assumes that humanity represents the pinnacle of evolution. It doesn't. It is one branch on a massive tree of life that started millions of years a go. Evolution doesn't have an end goal, it just does its thing. Live births and parental care didn't develop because they were superior, otherwise there wouldn't be oviparous animals anymore (or they would be phasing out). Live births and parenting simply developed.

Yes, laying eggs with abandon has its advantages. But so does parental care. What I feel is important is that parental care has the specific advantages that allow culture to develop. Real life squid and octopi do not pass information down through the generations, so each generation must start from scratch in terms of building survival skills and culture. Culture can't become very complex if you need to start from scratch every generation. And once again, given not only that a wild, uncultured squid has no incentive to pass information to juveniles from other parents, but that squids and octopi are often cannibalistic, it is extremely unlikely that a culture like the one seen in Inkopolis could develop without parental care.

So Inklings developed a means of tracking their ancestors and bloodlines. This is very easy to do and does not require parenting. It only requires the ability to keep records, which they are very capable of when it comes to Ranks,Splat Fest votes and purchased gear/weapons.

Not really. The game doesn't establish anything beyond them having a good relationship with each other. I have a good relationship with my boss. That doesn't mean she raised me.

...Perhaps I should explain further. If Cuttlefish is not the biological grandparent of the squid sisters, then he would call them his grandsquids as a term of affection. But the reason that we consider "children" and "grandchildren" a term of affection is because we humans put a great deal of time and effort into raising children, and thus form a strong bond with them. For a species without parental care, the idea of biological heritage becomes meaningless, as no individual has any positive experience (or experience, period) of dealing with parents or children.

If parental care does not exist among the inklings, then Cuttlefish calling Callie and Marie his grandchildren is not affectionate, just weird.
Also, near as i can tell, none of the other sentient species in the game are based off of animals that exhibit parental care in the wild, so I don't know of any way the inklings could have learned about the concept from other species, unless we assume that other species evolved parental care while the inklings didn't, which is a little odd, and somewhat defeats the point of the no-parent argument anyway.

Also, if inklings have no parental care, then they would have to pay for their own food, housing, electricity and whatnot, but we see no indication that inkling children take jobs. Their only source of money is the turf wars, and even that isn't usually enough to pay for a living.
The only possible explanation is that some outside source pays for the squid kid's housing and other needs, which is, well...
It's one thing for sports teams to make a lot of money, but the idea that an entire species could sustain itself entirely off the sports industry is ridiculous.

 

[Globin347]

...I just had a realization.
this conversation is overlooking something very important: octopi, at least, do exhibit parental care. Specifically, they guard their eggs. Of course, since they don't live to see their children develop to a point where they could teach them, they still can't develop culture, but it's not too much of a stretch to assume that were octopi to develop the ability to live after mating, they might be able to develop further parental care and teach their offspring survival skills.

...I suppose this justifies Inklings thinking of children in an affectionate way, but the concept of grandparents still wouldn't exist... maybe.

Come to think of it, lobsters and horseshoe crabs may not have parental care, but they do live after mating, so perhaps inklings could have learned the concept of parenthood from other species, were they to develop parental care...

But there is still argument that inklings have parental care beyond egg-guarding.
First of all, without some kind of culture, it would be likely that the lobsters, Jellyfish, Horseshoe crabs, anemones, urchins, and whatnot would think of inklings as wild animals. If inklings had no culture, It's more likely that they would be found in Zoos than in weapon and clothing shops.

Second, judging by the picture of inkling development (

), those squid-hatchlings look rather helpless. Since they are only in squid form, they could not move effectively on land, which means that in any place on the spectrum other than completely solid and waterproof, inklings would have to have parental care to survive childhood. If inklings are indeed waterproof, the babies could theoretically live in the water, but in that case it's highly unlikely that inklings would grow up to lose the ability to swim, further suggesting that the squidlings live on land their whole lives and therefore require parental care at least until they can walk effectively.

...Also, i had a thought.
I know that octopi guard their eggs until death, but I'm not sure if squid do the same.
Since octopi seem more inclined to parental care, and are better at moving on land, I had a thought...
Inklings and octolings are extremely similar. It's very unlikely that convergent evolution would give them both similarly humanoid forms...
So, I propose the following:

Both inklings and octarians evolved from octopi. The inklings just came up with the idea that they were different because they happened to more closely resemble squids, and because the two races developed an intense animosity during the great turf war, and the inklings did everything they could to distance themselves from the octarians.

 

[Globin347]

Also, yes, having many children and no parental care does not make a species less able to survive than few children but...
Can you think of any animals near the top of the food chain that do not exhibit parental care?

...well, sharks, for one, and perhaps giant and colossal squid, but... Are there any others? Even snakes exhibit parental care (or at least, cobras do.)
(and to be fair, sharks earned their spot at the top a long time before the advent of parental care.)...

now that I think of it, this argument may be rather useless, given all the sharks and snakes other than cobras and whatnot...

...the more I think about this, the more I wonder why I posted it.

 

[BlackZero]

Human children must learn to reason through experience.

Not exactly. Humans are born with reasoning ability (we call it mathematics). It has to be refined and connected to real world applications, but the ability to perform logical reasoning exists from day one afaik.

I find it hard to believe that they could be born instinctively knowing how to build weapons and shelters, and even harder to believe that a significant number of them could figure it out before they got eaten.

I may not have been clear on my definition of "self sufficiency." I never said they could do vector calculus and civil engineering right after hatching. When human is born, they have to spend months learning to walk. Squids are mobile immediately after hatching. Humans have to be fed until they reach a certain age. Squids are capable of hunting shortly after they're born. By "self sufficient," I don't mean they are born with the knowledge to perform complex tasks from day one. I mean they do not require months of nurturing before they can perform basic functions like walking and feeding themselves. Squids that require such pampering are not likely to survive in their environment long enough to pass their genes on to another generation. This makes them unlikely to experience the degree of evolution that Inklings have allegedly gone through.

Learning things like carpentry, mathematics, etc. do not require parenting however. It only requires literacy, or a means of demonstrating how such things are done (instructional videos). We see parenting as essential to child development because we are bioiogically programmed to think this way. That's because our offspring require parenting. A species that does not have this parental instinct would not likely consider parenting as essential. That doesn't mean they would not take an interest in teaching Inklings how to do things, however. The game made it quite clear that Inklings drew inspiration from human culture. I would imagine spreading knowledge would be a part of that. That's not quite the same as parenting though. There's a difference between a father raising his son and a master tradesman taking on an apprentice. If there is anything resembling parental instinct in Inkling society, I believe it leans more towards the latter than the former based on the fact that "parenting" is simply not something squids have hardwired into their brains.

Parents who taught there own children survival skills increased the chance that their own children, carrying their own genetic code, would survive. But if an individual in the wild teaches survival skills to other children, this has no benefit to it's own genetic line. In fact, it gives it's own children a disadvantage, because the competition has more information. As such, a species which does not live to see its own children would not develop a culture because at the most primitive stages of cultural development, there is no incentive to pass information to the next generation.

This may have been true at one point in man's development but something happened between then and now to make man realize that community efforts are more important than the preservation of individual genetic lines. Technically, a professor is sabotaging his child's future by educating other children with whom his child will have to compete with for gainful employment. At some point, humanity realized that collective effort benefited the whole more than individual survival. I believe this was the result of man developing reasoning ability. If Inklings developed human intellect, I don't think it would be a stretch for them to also realize the benefits of collaboration versus individual preservation. Bear in mind that squids are also social creatures.

Yes, laying eggs with abandon has its advantages. But so does parental care. What I feel is important is that parental care has the specific advantages that allow culture to develop. Real life squid and octopi do not pass information down through the generations, so each generation must start from scratch in terms of building survival skills and culture. Culture can't become very complex if you need to start from scratch every generation. And once again, given not only that a wild, uncultured squid has no incentive to pass information to juveniles from other parents, but that squids and octopi are often cannibalistic, it is extremely unlikely that a culture like the one seen in Inkopolis could develop without parental care.

Parental care may help cultural development along, but that's not the only means. Culture can also be transmitted through writing and discourse. Saying culture can't exist without parenting would suggest we can't understand ancient cultures because none of them are around to pass on knowledge of what they were like. Archeologists understand ancient civilizations quite well by studying ancient writing and iconography in addition to studying folklore. Parenting isn't the only means of transmitting the patterned ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that make up culture. This only requires the ability to communicate.

But the reason that we consider "children" and "grandchildren" a term of affection is because we humans put a great deal of time and effort into raising children, and thus form a strong bond with them. For a species without parental care, the idea of biological heritage becomes meaningless, as no individual has any positive experience (or experience, period) of dealing with parents or children.

It could be an idiom. In Arabic, a common way of asking people how they are doing translates literally as "what's your color?" Of course, you don't actually want to know what color they are; it's an expression with a meaning that transcends the words actually said. The Inklings could have adopted "children" and "grandchildren" from studying Human writings and seeing it used affectionately. They wouldn't need an innate understanding of parenting if Inkling scholars determined it was a term of affection.

Furthermore, that could have been a rough translation for humans. Bear in mind that Inklings have their own spoken and written language. Terms like "grandpa" and "granddaughters" could simply be approximations or interpolations by translators. :p

octopi, at least, do exhibit parental care. Specifically, they guard their eggs. Of course, since they don't live to see their children develop to a point where they could teach them, they still can't develop culture, but it's not too much of a stretch to assume that were octopi to develop the ability to live after mating, they might be able to develop further parental care and teach their offspring survival skills.

I'm not sure why you're convinced no parenting = no culture. Culture is transmitted through several mediums that do not involve parenting as discussed above. To say culture can't exist without parenting it to say art, literature, music, economics, language, science, industry, politics, philosophy, religion, and the environment in which people live has absolutely no influence on our society. I also think it's a bit of a stretch to call guarding eggs as parental care. In fact, this pretty much confirms it

Both inklings and octarians evolved from octopi. The inklings just came up with the idea that they were different because they happened to more closely resemble squids, and because the two races developed an intense animosity during the great turf war, and the inklings did everything they could to distance themselves from the octarians.

I'm pretty sure Word of God has established that Inklings evolved from squids. If not, their superjump ability certainly does. Octopodes cannot do that, whereas many species of squid can use their siphon as a water jet to launch themselves out of the water. The tentacles and body shape are also pretty solid clues.

 

[Globin347]

Well... Perhaps I should restructure my argument.

This may have been true at one point in man's development but something happened between then and now to make man realize that community efforts are more important than the preservation of individual genetic lines. Technically, a professor is sabotaging his child's future by educating other children with whom his child will have to compete with for gainful employment. At some point, humanity realized that collective effort benefited the whole more than individual survival. I believe this was the result of man developing reasoning ability. If Inklings developed human intellect, I don't think it would be a stretch for them to also realize the benefits of collaboration versus individual preservation. Bear in mind that squids are also social creatures.

We humans are able to transmit culture through writing because humanity as a whole understands the concept of writing. While it is true that culture can be transmitted through art and writing, I am arguing that without some form of verbally passing down information, inklings as a whole would have never developed writing in the first place, so they wouldn't have any writing to pass information through.

Parental care may help cultural development along, but that's not the only means. Culture can also be transmitted through writing and discourse. Saying culture can't exist without parenting would suggest we can't understand ancient cultures because none of them are around to pass on knowledge of what they were like. Archeologists understand ancient civilizations quite well by studying ancient writing and iconography in addition to studying folklore. Parenting isn't the only means of transmitting the patterned ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that make up culture. This only requires the ability to communicate.

Well, how did that ancient iconography and folklore come to be?
Also, writing is a means of transmitting communication... but in order to develop writing, the inklings would have to have some way of passing down the concept that these characters have meaning. Sooner or later, someone has to teach them to write, meaning they have to have someone teach them this stuff anyway.
Art may be a more favorable medium, but... Well, imagine an instruction manual comprised entirely of pictures.

This may have been true at one point in man's development but something happened between then and now to make man realize that community efforts are more important than the preservation of individual genetic lines. Technically, a professor is sabotaging his child's future by educating other children with whom his child will have to compete with for gainful employment. At some point, humanity realized that collective effort benefited the whole more than individual survival. I believe this was the result of man developing reasoning ability. If Inklings developed human intellect, I don't think it would be a stretch for them to also realize the benefits of collaboration versus individual preservation. Bear in mind that squids are also social creatures

Well, this professorship and teaching of society as a whole stems from the concept that Humanity as a species is a group, and that each individual can benefit themselves by giving to the species as a whole... In other words, social behavior.

...Well, I guess that some squids do form... herds. Herds of squids. This may undermine my argument. which is that without oral (or perhaps using some squid language based on changing skin color to convey meaning) transmission of information, Inkling culture could not get to the point at which these other techniques become possible.
...Apparently, this sociability may provide a means for this oral/chromatophoric communication to occur...

...You have some valid points.

Of course, this still requires squids to reliably form groups without being born as part of an established herd. These herds need to be permanent enough for squids to reliably depend on one another to the extend that they will share information to assist the herd as a whole. I will now research the social behavior of squid to see if this idea has any merit, but while squid do live in groups (which are probably not actually called herds), I think each squid still individually provides for itself.

So yes, my big parenting argument may not be as valid as I thought it was. But there is sill the argument of the fact that inklings are not born with terrestrial appendages.

...are these images coming out properly?
Anyway, even if we assume that the babies could theoretically be adapted for aquatic life, this means that inklings made partially or entirely of paint are incompatible with a lack of parental care, as the babies would dissolve in the water yet cannot move effectively on land.
This leaves inklings that are either more conventional in body structure throughout life, or develop the inky nature as they grow. In either case, I find it unusual that a species which is born as an aquatic... squidling would grow up to be unable to swim. Amphibians can all swim in their adult forms, after all. If you take this into account, it either heavily suggests that inklings do not die upon mating, or makes inklings a very odd species indeed.

 

[Globin347]

OK, so while many squid do "talk" via changing their skin color rapidly during courtship rituals, this still doesn't justify culture, as the squids aren't really trusting one another enough to exchange valuable information. They're just cooperating to mate.

The thing that actually hurts out my anti-culture argument is the fact that Humboldt squid have apparently been observed hunting cooperatively, in which case they do trust one another and would indeed want to teach their companions any new strategies they developed.
...Of course, since the squids are only interacting with other adults, I presume they would likely eat a juvenile rather than teach it, so even if one pack of squids developed writing, I find it unlikely that the concept of writing would be passed to other packs. I do, however, recognize that this argument for parenthood is growing weaker with every post.

Which leaves me with the "baby inklings can't move effectively on land" argument, which is technically only a problem if you assume that baby inklings are as helpless in water as their adult counterparts.
Since inklings do have a squid form, however, which is similar to a baby inkling, I still find it unlikely that inklings would lose the ability to swim...

I'm beginning to think that this is going to lead to a second "agree to disagree" event.

...although... have octopi been observed hunting cooperatively? if not, does this mean that the probability of being able to survive mating differs between the inklings and the octarians?

And once again, without some form of direct verbal/chromatophoric/sign-based communication, I do not believe that the other means of transmitting culture you mentioned could have come to exist in the first place.

 

[Globin347]

Also:

I also think it's a bit of a stretch to call guarding eggs as parental care. In fact,this pretty much confirms it

You're right, I wouldn't call that parental care, but that article was about squid.

When a female octopus mates, she will look for a good cave, and lay her eggs there. She will then remain in the cave, gently using her siphons to create water currents to keep the eggs supplied with fresh oxygen, while she starves to death.

While it is true that she does not live to interact with the hachlings, I feel that the fact that she remains with the eggs when she could go find food qualifies as parental care.

Meanwhile, the male octopus goes insane.