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Discussing Inkling/Octoling Biology

Discussion in 'Regular Discussion' started by Paragon-Yoshi, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Well, the most relevant difference between inkling and human bodies (in kid form) is that an inkling's bones are made from compressed/solidified fluid that can be liquidized at will. One relevant question on the subject is whether the squid folk have enough control over their bodies to liquify only their bones while leaving the "flesh" intact.

    If so, they would be able to squirm out of a hold far more easily than we could, unless the grip was around the individual's neck. If not, it would be rather difficult to hold on to an inkling in squid form.

    As for squid form combat, the squids are unable to fight in-game because that would have made gameplay too complicated. While squids may not have the size and strength of kids, they would be able to hold on to something large enough (aka not a thin bar in a grate, apparently). This would have little application, but if the enemy was stuch in your own ink, a squid might be able to drag them down to hasten the process.

    However, this doesn't happen in-game. Presumably because:

    The developers never thought of it, or thought it would add nothing to the game.

    It is needlessly dangerous when you can just shoot the enemy with high-velocity "bullets" of ink.

    It might be against the rules in the multiplayer modes.

    Edit: now that I think about it, there isn't an effective way for an inkling to get out of a hold on their neck without damaging their windpipe.

    Also, the game's art style portrays inklings as having extremely thin necks, but that's not really relevant, because it is possible to get a hold on necks of realistic thickness.

    Also: we humans have hemoglobin in our blood, which bonds to oxygen gas allows oxygen to be distributed to the rest of the body. Cephalopods have hemocyanin for that purpose.

    As it turns out, hemoglobin is completely superior to hemocyanin, and octopi (and presumably squids) actually tire more easily than we do because of their inferior blood protiens. Would that factor in to this? Or have the inklings been shown to be active enough to suggest a more effective "blood" protien than hemocyanin?

    I am presuming an inkling's "blood" is composed of ink. Probably little currents of ink left unsolidified in kid form.

    Come to think of it, the squid form would need to at least partially solidify to retain it's shape.
    The squids are presumably able to move through grates because their skin and tissue near the surface remains liquid, allowing for use of the string theory-esque ink to move through small solid objects. This would leave squids vulnerable to drying out and (more vulnerable to) enemy ink, however. This is why inklings are forced into humanoid form when they swim into enemy ink (don't believe me? Try it.)

    On a side note, the solid parts of squid form may not be as solid as the kid form.

    Edit: I apologize for the rambling nature of this post. It has no clear topic or structure.
     
    #61 Globin347, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  2. Paragon-Yoshi

    Paragon-Yoshi Inkling Cadet

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    Is ok.

    But yeah, I'd think Ink/Octo-lings would have developed superior organs and workings, compared to their predecessors.
    Including the way blood works.

    Although personally, I'd think they still need blood for their inner organs, at least.


    So I guess right now, we have have settled on the theory that human holds and the like could still work well on our squid/octo-personas.
    Although it might not be as easy.


    Personally I'd think they cannot freely bend their limbs without feeling pain.
    But since they have no bones that could be broken, they simply have to bend the limb back into shape

    I have the idea, that bending limbs out of shape or squeezing or whatever is painful, not because of bones being broken, but because of muscles or whatever being torn apart or bruised.

    Maybe it takes more for Inklings and Octolings for it to become painful. But if you go over the limit, it will.

    So yeah, for now I'd think that they can still be subdued with physical force and not just hazardous liquid.


    We gotta remember that they are part-human and part-squids/octopi.
    Not necessarily a cross-breed (How would that work anyways?), but once primitive animals that have had a human-evolution.
    Sure you can compare everything to actual squids and octopi.
    But I still think they got things that we humans had in their world as well.
    And maybe even unique things that neither of the two races had.
    Just saying....
     
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  3. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    Eh, it depends. If Inklings developed a higher concentration of Hc (x4) after moving onto land (or during the transition), the efficiency in carrying oxygen wouldn't be an issue. If this was the case, Hc would actually be superior to Hg as Hc operates equally efficient in areas with high and low O2 concentration. Inklings could survive quite well in areas where Hg users couldn't (altitudes up to 7.5 km). Their caloric demands would be much higher to sustain such a large volume of Hc though.

    Even if they didn't develop higher hc density, they could survive on land with the issues you mentioned. This could be why splat games are so short compared to human sporting events.
    Having played tennis and soccer, I can attest that hyper-extending tendons and muscles sucks.
    Considering how squid reproduction works, rather macabre if you ask me. It would explain why there are no "adult" Inklings though.

    Alternate explanation for not being able to swim: real squids are ectotherms (use the environment to regulate their body temperature). If the water temperature is outside of the parameters their body needs to function, their muscles may simply shut down and they can't swim because their muscles stop working. They splat to get out of the water asap before their organs shut down and they die.
     
  4. ShinyGirafarig

    ShinyGirafarig Inkling Commander

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    Well there is Cuttlefish who despite the name is an Inkling as well as his Japanese name is Atarime and also has the male Inkling's tentacles. And since he is a grandfather he would have reproduced without the modern way squids reproduce now.
     
  5. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Well... it seems I've learned something new about hemocyanin.

    Also, I hadn't thought about hyperextending muscle tissue. That could be painful.

    Of course, I still think the fact that the "bones" and most of the muscle tissue can liquify would factor into unarmed combat somehow... or maybe not...

    Anyway, Blackzero's ectothermic idea is plausible... but would the inklings really shut down the instant they touched water? Sure, the splatting is justified if you fall into the ocean, but what about those little pools in arowana mall? Surely the inklings would have time to climb out...
    I still think there's a deeper explanation for the inkling's hydraphobic bodies.

    ..then again, we are calling it the splat "reflex".
     
    #65 Globin347, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
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  6. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    This thread discusses it in more detail. It's a pretty interesting read.

    I think it's more of an "oh ****!" reflex than some chemical incompatibility with water. If Inklings were killed by water itself, a heavy rainstorm could wipe out entire cities and fire suppression systems could kill more Inklings than a burning building. Not only that, but it would make keeping themselves hydrated rather difficult if they exploded when they touched water.

    I think it's more plausible that they panic when they fall in water and splat to get out, but there could be another explanation.
     
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  7. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Well, obviously, they would have to be able to ingest (relatively) small amounts of water... prefferably dilluted with ink, I imagine.

    But you're right. There are a few problems with the idea. It would be difficult to find shelter in heavy rain. I imagine trying to cram into buildings could result in a panic that results in trampling deaths... perhaps.

    Or perhaps inklings have low population densities? They would naturally gather around inkopolis plaza because that area is particularly relevant to them...

    This whole thing probably sounds like me grasping at straws... but the game narratives (and squid lab) seem to imply to me that water can hatm inklings in great quantities.

    Although... the earlier idea about splatting, proposed by Paragon-Yoshi, is that splatting without a respawn point is an extremely slow, exhausting, and dangerous process, leaving inklings extremely vulnerable.

    If this is the case, it might mean that before respawn points, when the splat-reflex would have developed, splatting might be more dangerous than trying to swim out (if you're near the shore).

    As for the fire suppressors, I'm just going to cling to my inexperience with fire suppression and say that maybe they don't have enough water to kill inklings... after all, there is a difference between being sprayed with water and being immersed it it.

    Once again, I'm grasping at straws...

    I just feel that the ability to liquify and re-solidify in a fraction of a second would have to have some biological consequence... it would be hard to turn if inkling flesh were as solid as ours.
     
  8. Paragon-Yoshi

    Paragon-Yoshi Inkling Cadet

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    Well we do know that Inkling bodies dissolve in water, because their bodies are made of ink.
    Which is why swimming in water is impossible for them.
    That is official.

    Tho the question on how exactly that can be, remains unanswered.


    So yeah, the rain.question is a good question to ask.
    Is water really that lethal to them, that any amount would be deadly?
    Or is it just lethal, when submerged in it?
     
  9. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Well, made of ink or not, they would still need to hydrate themselved to function.

    And it makes sense that they would develop some defence against water, as their world has so much of it. You could probably hit them with a good amount of water before it got dangerous (although it would probably be very painful).

    I imagine that it would be painful because the purpose of pain is to let you know that your body is being damaged. If inklings do dissasociate in water, it would be dangerous for it not to elicit a pain response.

    P.S.: I'm new to forum posting in general. Would it be too much trouble to ask how to set spoilers (or get this text out of this box?)

    Edit: never mind, the box seems to have dissappeared.
     
  10. Dolphoshi

    Dolphoshi Pro Squid

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    i don't think that inklings have a chemical weakness to water otherwise they wouldn't have it in the mall (how many places with hazard waste ponds do you know) they also wouldn't be able to carry out a lot of the cellular functions (let alone eat as processing food produces water), they also have water slides (splatfest) which would be a poison slide, I think they just can't swim (literally nothing else) and the body notices that it's in danger so it splat reflexes to save it's self and since it launches it's organs out it leaves an area where the water can get in explaining why it looks like they melt in the water (expect for the clothes and weapon), they also look like they dissolve in ink so i think it's just the remains after the organs get launched out.
     
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  11. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    You do have good points... although, I am going to continue the solubility theory if only for the sake of argument.

    The mall may not have been built by inklings, or it may have been built after the invention of respawn points. Water wouldn't be so dangerous at that point.

    Also, merely touching water would not be enough to kill an inkling; otherwise, they would not be able to ingest it (although real ink is composed primarily of water).

    Perhaps primitive inklings spit ink into water before drinking? ...admittedly, this is a shaky idea at best...

    The key issue here is how much water the inklings are exposed to. The theory I am supporting would suggest that fire suppression systems might not be as dangerous as being immersed in water... or perhaps ink could put out fires?

    ...actually, that has basically the same problem.

    As it stands, the dissassociation theory is fragmented. It is difficult to imagine how creatures that fall apart when exposed to water could form a society on a planet with so much water.

    However, the in game narrative, Nintendo, and squid lab seem to imply that inklings really are made of ink, which can be solidified enough to hold it's shape.

    in order to support this idea, I may need to ask the internet for additional ideas.
     
  12. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Ok, I've done a bit of preliminary research. Here's what I have so far:

    The fire suppression: we humans have been building cities long before effective fire suppression has been invented, so this isn't an inhibiting factor. Of course, it is likely that calamari country would have some sort of fire fighting technique other than fire fighters.

    Given the dangerous nature that high pressure water would represent, heavy fire suppression might have to be held under lock and key, which would make fire more dangerous to inklings than to us.

    Light fire suppression (which I am defining as fire suppression that does not have enough water to seriously harm inklings) would be more common.

    This presents a somewhat morbid picture, but fire kills people in our time, too.

    Rain: this is probably the trickiest one, especially since inklings would have evolved under the pressure it presents.

    the threat posed by rain under the dissasociation theory is, of course, related to the intensity of the rain.

    Light rain wouldn't be a problem, but it would be enough to cause schools and camps to panic and hurry the kids in like the world was ending.

    Heavy rain would be more threatening. Inklings would have to be able to hold themselves together long enough to find shelter, so they might be able to last a few minutes. Holding themselves together like that for more than a minute would be exhausting, I imagine, so inklings would probably be inclined to stay near shelter whenever possible.

    Because of the threat rain would pose, inklings would probably put more effort and money into meteorology than we have, leading to much more accurate forcasts.

    The pools at arowana mall:
    Well, given that inklings evolved in a world where water is everywhere, they may have simply developed the good sense not to jump in. Of course, inklings peobably wouldn't deliberately put water in their mall if it was dangerous, so the mall was probably built either after the invention of respawn points or by a species which isn't made of ink. I suggest the jellyfish; they seem to be the most numerous.

    I can't remember everywhere I looked. I know I checked game informer and reddit. As I said, this was only a preliminary search, and most of what I wrote didn't come from that search anyway. I know the theory is still flawed, but it seems to be what all the official sources are implying. We can't know for sure, however.

    Sooner or later, someone should ask them directly.

    Edit: inklings would also have invented umbrellas and rain gear much earlier than we did.

    Also, during the single player campaign, captain cuttlefish states that "we sea creatures can't swim!"
    He may have just been emphasizing the joke, but he may also have been implying that other sapient species in splatoon may have trouble with water (although they might not have the same issues with rain and fire suppression.)

    All the same, we should remember that inklings live in a society where they may be able to rely on other species to do certain tasks.
     
    #72 Globin347, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  13. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    I agree with Dolphoshi. I don't think Inklings have an adverse reaction to water. It would be kinda arbitrary to say that exposure to water kills them except when they need it to survive. If they are made of water-soluable ink, they would dissolve regardless of whether they drank it, swam in it, or had some poured over their heads. I think it's more likely that they can't swim for other reasons and splat to get out of water than to say they melt when they touch it.

    It could be that, when they evolved to live on land, they lost any features that would allow them to swim effectively. My dad's friend can actually walk on the bottom of a swimming pool because of how he's built. He doesn't have enough bouyancy to float without treading water. If Inklings cannot exert a lot of physical effort for prolonged periods of time due to how their Hc blood works, and lack sufficient bouyancy to float, trying to swim would be a death sentence.

    Or they could be ectothermic and jumping in water throws their body's equilibrium off enough to jeopardize their health. Or, that water could simply be considered "out of bounds" and against the rules of splat-games, so they take that game's equivalent of a penalty (having to splat and respawn).

    I think any of those three are more plausible explanations, but ymmv.
     
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  14. Flareth

    Flareth Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    I almost want to say that it's nigh-impossible for any living thing on Earth to have developed an intolerance to water exposure, especially for a species that is derived from sea-dwelling mollusks.

    Although I'll admit I'm equally stumped as to why the splat reflex kicks in upon hitting a body of water. I can't find anything regarding the density of squid ink (there's a lot of info for printer ink density, but I'm not sure how relevant it is to this discussion), so there goes that line of thought.
    I'm gonna have to go with @BlackZero and @Dolphoshi on this one; it seems more likely that they hit the water, panic, and splat themselves to save their skins. It just seems counter-intuitive for a humanoid species with little water tolerance to show up on a planet where it's in major abundance.
     
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  15. ShinyGirafarig

    ShinyGirafarig Inkling Commander

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    Do remember there are actual species in real life that are unable to swim.
     
  16. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Well, these real-life species rarely live near a great deal of water. So yes, the others have a point. I am simply clinging on to an older theory because that's what the game seems to imply. I feel like the inklings being made of ink is the best way to explain the squid to kid change, and that the liquidizing and splatting both work best with the ink-made bodies. I'm not sure why a solid inkling would splat due to enemy ink. I do, however, acknowledge that the inklings would have to be able to drink water, and resist water long enough to find shelter in a rainstorm. I do see that this makes life challenging for the inklings, however.

    And of course, I'm not going to say that I am right or that you are wrong. There is nothing to validate the ink theory or to invalidate the solid theory. I also have no intention of being rude, and I apologize if I came off that way.

    ...Of course, in a world of infinite universes, both could exist, but I think this is getting off topic.
    Perhaps this would be a good time to summarize both models? please correct me if I get any details wrong.

    please note that this summary should also describe octolings under both models.

    The solid model suggests that Inklings have animal-like flesh, but can liquidize it to turn into squid form, and swim in their ink. Their bodies can easily solidify enough to keep them watertight, but their bodies are clearly meant for land-based movement: not only do are they exothermic, but their bodies may also be rather dense. They also have hemocyanin in their blood as opposed to our hemoglobin, so they tire more easily than we do.

    Inklings also have an ink sac, in which they produce a great quantity of ink with a highly unusual property: it extends into the fourth dimension. I presume that greater concentrations of ink would extend further into the higher regions of the universe. Because of this, ink is able to cause things to "sink" into solid ground. Ink has also evolved to force other creatures to liquidize. Although inklings have flesh of similar density to ours, foreign ink is able to tear an inkling's body apart.

    to deal with this, inklings have developed a "splat reflex", allowing inklings to compress their vital organs into a small area, and "eject" from their bodies. This allows inklings to survive being torn apart by enemy ink, which they would likely have been exposed to regularly during development. In nature, this is an extreme last resort, because it takes a very long time and a lot of energy to regenerate a body, and the inklings are extremely vulnerable during this time. However, inkling science has managed to develop a miraculous technology to turn what was once a life threatening race against the clock into an annoyance that lasts less than 30 seconds. Incidentally, this has also allowed Turf wars, which once (presumably) occurred as either warfare between opposing political entities or as gladiator style battles which would have had high casualty rates into a sport that children can play.

    ...now that I think about it, the fact that the ink in this model can tear apart an otherwise solid creature suggests that it may be able to "splat" other creatures, such as humans. I should mention that it does seem able to destroy wooden crates, after all.
    or maybe you meant that they were made of ink, but are still able to simulate human-like flesh? I'm a little unsure.



    The liquid model is very similar to this model, but with a few key differences.
    To start off, the inklings under the liquid model have flesh as well, but rather than being as solid as humans are, their bodies are composed of ink that is presumably being held together by cellular interaction (or perhaps magic.) This explains why they are able to liquefy their bodies and re-solidify so easily. Of course, like the butterfly, their vital organs remain intact during liquefaction.

    However, the ability to shift so easily comes at a price: the organic connections between their body cells can disassociate. naturally, evolution has made this hard to do, but it can take effort to hold together under certain stresses. Water, which is known as a universal solvent, is capable of weakening these linkages. The inklings are able to resist the disassociating effects of water, but only to a certain extent; being immersed in water is outside their limits, although being sprayed with it might not be.

    Inklings, not only being of cephalopod descent, but having bodies made of ink, have evolved to exploit this. Inkling ink has a natural tendency to absorb and tear apart foreign ink. The inklings use this to force their enemies to dissolve.

    Of course, being so prone to dissolving, the inklings have evolved a backup response: they have a "splat reflex" which allows them to squeeze their vital organs into a tiny area (presumably with the help of the string-theory quality of ink), and launch themselves out of their bodies, which just fall apart without cellular interaction holding it together. Of course, regenerating a body, between generating all the cells needed to hold the ink together, attaching it to the non-ink organs, and whatnot, is still a monumental task, requiring a great deal of time and energy to complete. This naturally leaves inklings extremely vulnerable.

    of course, once again, inkling science has devised a way to greatly hasten the process, to the point that it can be done multiple times within a span of a few minutes, once again allowing gladiator sports to become children's sports.

    ...I must confess. I'm not entirely sure what these "ink cells" are, or how they hold the body together. maybe inklings are magic.

    And that is my understanding of both the solid and liquid inkling model. please tell me about any glaring inconsistencies you notice.
    And once that's wrapped up... well, we've found something new to talk about when I thought the thread was over multiple times, so... any ideas?
     
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  17. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    I don't think anyone took offense to anything. This is all just WMG. Personally, I think this is simply a game mechanic that doesn't have a lore-friendly explanation unless the devs put one in DLC. As of now, death water is simply an updated version of bottomless pit from the SNES games. They both serve as an insta-death zone when someone goes "out of bounds."

    Seriously though, I don't think the devs thought it through, so this doesn't hold up to deep analysis. The best thing we can say about it is that Inklings cannot swim. Whether it kills actually dissolves/kills them or not is never explained in game, afaik (Cpt. Cuttlefish only says they can't swim). Personally, I don't consider Twitter/Facebook posts canon as that tends to be more promotional in nature and I'm not sure how much input the actual dev team has in those things. So, based on what the game itself says on the matter (why would inklings vote for a water slide during Splat-Fest if that was basically an inkling murder machine?) plus my own layman's knowledge of biology, I think Inklings don't have a problem with water, but swimming.

    It could be that their kid form is fleshy solid and the squid form is living ink. That would explain why they don't switch to squid form (which one would think is better for swimming). If they change into a squid, they will turn into ink and dissolve. If they stay solid kids, they can splat to get out. Unless they're fine in freshwater, but die in saltwater. Brings all new meaning to the phrase "stay fresh!" eh?
     
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  18. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Well, I'm glad to hear this.

    Anyway, some of the miiverse posts suggested that the waterslides were really inkslides.

    One of the online things I read suggested that the slides simply had a respawn point at the bottom... although one would expect the latter option to be rather painful.

    I just thought I'd bring those up.

    Anyway... do we have anything else to discuss? What they eat, maybe?

    One would expect inklings to eat "oceanic seafood", yet sunken scroll #21 expresses horror at the thought of something eating prawns.

    On the flip side, Marie mentions that "salted squid is a delicacy in some places" in one of the newscasts for Saltspray Rig. I'm assuming she meant oceanic squid, for reasons that shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

    They may also eat birds, bugs, and other small land animals which survived the flood.

    Edit: here's a "fresh" link to the sunken scrolls, for convenience: http://splatoon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Sunken_Scrolls
     
    #78 Globin347, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  19. Pinko

    Pinko Semi-Pro Squid

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    They have chips (Callie mentions it as her favourite food in several quotes, all the american ones completely disregarded it) sundaes and apparently waffles (Urchin Underpass quotes, waffles for japan, sundaes for EU). They mention fruit, although I think it was in the artbook and strange fruit was shown (http://prntscr.com/91hhlc). In the Eating Sleeping fest, Callie also mentions chocolate and cheese.

    'salted squid is a delicacy' is just weird since the original Japanese source never said anything like that so I wouldn't actually take that seriously since 60% of the quotes were changed in meaning entirely. It'd practically be cannibalism.

    They also seem to have marshmallows (not sure about hot dogs) and other things.
    I also think they have some form of food liquid or not in the vending machines.

    I tend to take the EU version as seriously as the JP version since the EU version tries very hard to be closer to the source material, and Japan is where the game came from so I take it the most seriously.
     
  20. ShinyGirafarig

    ShinyGirafarig Inkling Commander

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    And then the Japanese Splatfest Squid vs Octopus with pictures of their dead forms happened.

    Also NA version had a quote calling hot dogs hotdog fish, The hamburger equivalent is catfish burgers. There are chips referenced in NA, it's just called by their equivalent "French fries." There's also peanut butter and Judd is said to eat fish so there must be non sentient fish around. And then there are vegetables that Marie really dislikes. I suppose in real life squids are strictly carnivorous but I am not so familiar with aquatic creatures so feel free to tell me more about real life squids' diets.
     
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