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Do you think implementing customizable weapon kits in the next game would be beneficial or detrimental to the game?

Customizable kits: good or bad?


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IzzTheKid

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This recently came up as part of a disappointing Fresh Season rollout. Since buffing or nerfing a sub or special weapon affects an entire group of main weapons, and weapon kits are always final and never subject to change during a game's life cycle, could fully customizable kits be the solution?
 

cipsbsndj

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While the current kit system isn’t good and needs to change, I also don’t wanna give Sqeezer burst bomb
 

DzNutsKong

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Yeah I think stronger main weapons should still be allowed to exist and I don't really like some of the stuff that fully custom kits opens up, like Burst Bomb Slosher as an example. An interesting idea I saw would be to allow weapons to pick from one of three sub and special weapons, like have three kits but let people mix and match stuff between them. There'd still be some weapons that'd get noticeably stronger like with both swords as easy examples for me but for how many weapons have had a good sub and a bad special or vice versa, it'd be a great fix to a bunch of those.

besides i think tetra players kinda deserve to have autobomb / zipcaster at this point come on it's not even the craziest special out there
 

Driftwood

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I get the appeal but I think it would be even harder for the devs to balance the game. The number of possibilities would geometrically greater than with the current system and it would be that much harder to foresee the effect of a change to any main, sub or special (and they already have trouble doing it now).
 

Terret

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My answer: if they are going to be balancing at this slow of a rate, then yes they should. Custom kits is a great way to keep things fresh and most people are not going to play optimal picks with how many fun options there would be in this game. Balancing may be a lot harder but I feel it would be a lot easier to put restrictions when need be for say a competitive tournament because no one is really losing a main, sub, or special weapon unless they are THAT much of a problem
 

IzzTheKid

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I actually think it would make it quite easier to balance - a particular sub or special is seeing much more or less use in competitive environments, then it is buffed or nerfed accordingly. We could possibly see ink mines kill instantly once again...
 

Driftwood

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My answer: if they are going to be balancing at this slow of a rate, then yes they should. Custom kits is a great way to keep things fresh and most people are not going to play optimal picks with how many fun options there would be in this game. Balancing may be a lot harder but I feel it would be a lot easier to put restrictions when need be for say a competitive tournament because no one is really losing a main, sub, or special weapon unless they are THAT much of a problem
I don't really agree. Technically there is nothing wrong with any weapon kit in the game except that there are other weapon kits that are better than it. Custom kits doesn't change any of this. There will still be certain combinations of mains, subs and specials that will be better than the others. There will still be high and low tiers. There will still be a meta.
 

Driftwood

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I actually think it would make it quite easier to balance - a particular sub or special is seeing much more or less use in competitive environments, then it is buffed or nerfed accordingly. We could possibly see ink mines kill instantly once again...
Yeah but the issue is that kits are good because of how well it's components synergize with each other. Sure if a main, sub or special is generally too strong (or weak) they can adjust it but there will still be some combinations that will be better than the others. And balancing those cases are hard without affecting all the other combinations. It's already difficult with the current system but imo it would be incalculably harder if every combination is possible.
 
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reelrollsweat

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imo the biggest issue with custom kits is that people would pick all of the best mains/subs/specials and only use combinations of those. there would be much less motivation to explore the more underrated aspects of weapon kits ex. zipcaster on vstamper. basically everyone would run burst bomb or zooka or cooler on everything and it would suck
 
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missingno

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Custom kits would require the game to be redesigned and rebalanced from the ground up around them. Looking at Splatoon as we know it, it would be a huge mess if just any weapon was allowed to have a Burst Bomb, and we'd see players gravitate towards only a few top tiers run in various combinations. Wouldn't work.

But if they do make big changes to S4 so that the game is redesigned and rebalanced around this, I may not be opposed to it. I have a hard time picturing what this might look like, but if they were determined to make it work I'm sure they could and maybe it could come out better for it. At the end of the day it would make a lot of people happy if they could just play what they want and not be frustrated by their favorite weapon being stuck with a cursed kit.
 

Terret

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I don't really agree. Technically there is nothing wrong with any weapon kit in the game except that there are other weapon kits that are better than it. Custom kits doesn't change any of this. There will still be certain combinations of mains, subs and specials that will be better than the others. There will still be high and low tiers. There will still be a meta.
I can kinda see where you’re going with that, but a meta is not necessarily a bad thing if the meta is going to be significantly more fresh than it is now. And no, there are more problems than just weak and strong weapon kits. Some kits are flat out antisynergetic and even for fun value, many of the weapons do not feel good to play. I don’t think you know how many main weapons have incredible potential shackled by terrible/boring kits. Dread instantly becomes an awesome enabler for so many weapons if it can have cooler, Ballpoint has its unique playstyle with beakons back, Tetras can throw away the sprinkler and be an absolute menace, E-Liter can have its burst bomb back (which would be pretty funny ngl), honestly the only thing I’d be concerned of is slosher burst combo with a good special
 

Cephalobro

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I don't think it's a good idea unless they do so much nerfing for the main weapons so the system can be more balanced.

I dread the idea of a Blobblobber or Clash Blaster with Burst Bombs and Splashdown.
 

DChachouke

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Definitely NOT a good idea. It would make the game incredibly boring and uniform. What I do think would be good though, would be having Splatoon interact with its community more and at least give it a small role in kit making, by making polls or something idk. If customizable kits were to happen, they should stay out of PvP
 

Driftwood

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I can kinda see where you’re going with that, but a meta is not necessarily a bad thing if the meta is going to be significantly more fresh than it is now. And no, there are more problems than just weak and strong weapon kits. Some kits are flat out antisynergetic and even for fun value, many of the weapons do not feel good to play. I don’t think you know how many main weapons have incredible potential shackled by terrible/boring kits. Dread instantly becomes an awesome enabler for so many weapons if it can have cooler, Ballpoint has its unique playstyle with beakons back, Tetras can throw away the sprinkler and be an absolute menace, E-Liter can have its burst bomb back (which would be pretty funny ngl), honestly the only thing I’d be concerned of is slosher burst combo with a good special
See...I think it would be fresh at first, but quickly get boring as soon people find out what the meta combinations are and then that would be pretty much all you would see. Some weapons might get bumped up or down but I think it would get stale pretty quickly. Especially because, outside of really high level you would probably see a lot of lazy builds. I'm suspecting you would see a lot of shooters with missiles and splat or burst bombs in solo queue for instance.

Also...none of those weapons you listed are in a bad spot right now (well I actually don't know how well Dread is doing but the others are fine). They aren't at the top tier currently but you see a lot of Ballpoint, Tetras and E-Liters out there still.
 

Terret

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See...I think it would be fresh at first, but quickly get boring as soon people find out what the meta combinations are and then that would be pretty much all you would see. Some weapons might get bumped up or down but I think it would get stale pretty quickly. Especially because, outside of really high level you would probably see a lot of lazy builds. I'm suspecting you would see a lot of shooters with missiles and splat or burst bombs in solo queue for instance.

Also...none of those weapons you listed are in a bad spot right now (well I actually don't know how well Dread is doing but the others are fine). They aren't at the top tier currently but you see a lot of Ballpoint, Tetras and E-Liters out there still.
Tetras have tanked hard since cooler meta, which killed its qr niche, Liter is stuck with a mid kit and while the main is strong enough to have some uses, it’s practically impossible to justify over pencil 99.9% of the time. Ballpoint while definitely usable also tanked miserably because of Pencil. And Dread is stuck as being niche because it’s a slider weapon. While these weapons aren’t that kit dependent in terms of usage and therefore not in a terrible spot, those are the exact weapons that should be BETTER than they currently are. Ballpoint and Dread especially are forced to being niche picks in their current state while if they had a strong synergistic kit (BP’s kinda strong (or would be if not for Zooka) but not very synergistic, Dread’s very synergistic but not that strong) they’d have the ability to create new playstyles for compositions to give more potential options for weapons that are currently difficult to fit, even with a good kit (Gloogas, Squiffer, Dualie Squelchers, Blob, Bow, Dynamo, Brella, and to an extent even Carbon and S’Blast). We have a ton of weapons that while can work, are forced to be built around to make work. That would be fine if we had a lot of weapons that could be used as enablers for those niche picks but we don’t, leading to team comps feeling very samey despite different weapons, and even that bit of diversity is being threatened by Pencil and Zooka since we don’t have good enough options for other specials (ESPECIALLY inkjet and inkstorm). Those problems won’t be completely fixed with custom kits but it would be much more bearable because there would be so many more options.
 

Driftwood

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Tetras have tanked hard since cooler meta, which killed its qr niche, Liter is stuck with a mid kit and while the main is strong enough to have some uses, it’s practically impossible to justify over pencil 99.9% of the time. Ballpoint while definitely usable also tanked miserably because of Pencil...
This is all true...at the very top level of the competitive scene. This is not what 99.99% of the player base experiences. You if you go a little lower and you see a lot more weapon diversity. Genesis X was won by cooler-less comp with Tri-Stringer as the backline. I'm not saying that Tri-Stringer is secretly top tier, Genesis X was not a major or anything. But I'm saying you have to go extremely high up before the meta becomes absolutely constricting. At the very top, when people are going up against the best in the region or even the world, it makes sense that you would want to give yourself every millimeter of advantage you can get and so it makes sense that something like Tetras or E-liter might not quite make that cut. But that's not what the vast majority of people are dealing with.

And custom kits are not going to change any of that. Some of the weapons you mentioned may go into the new top tier but there will still be a lot of weapons that will be relegated to mid tier or lower. There is still going to be a small percentage of the weapon kits out there that will be considered meta and at the very top level of play, those are the weapons that will be picked.

Also side note, I do think Pencil needs a nerf since it's currently the best backline weapon in the game, but that's not really something you need custom kits to fix.

While these weapons aren’t that kit dependent in terms of usage and therefore not in a terrible spot, those are the exact weapons that should be BETTER than they currently are.
Not sure why these weapons are the ones that should be better than any other given weapon to be honest.

Ballpoint and Dread especially are forced to being niche picks in their current state while if they had a strong synergistic kit (BP’s kinda strong (or would be if not for Zooka) but not very synergistic, Dread’s very synergistic but not that strong) they’d have the ability to create new playstyles for compositions to give more potential options for weapons that are currently difficult to fit, even with a good kit (Gloogas, Squiffer, Dualie Squelchers, Blob, Bow, Dynamo, Brella, and to an extent even Carbon and S’Blast). We have a ton of weapons that while can work, are forced to be built around to make work. That would be fine if we had a lot of weapons that could be used as enablers for those niche picks but we don’t, leading to team comps feeling very samey despite different weapons, and even that bit of diversity is being threatened by Pencil and Zooka since we don’t have good enough options for other specials (ESPECIALLY inkjet and inkstorm). Those problems won’t be completely fixed with custom kits but it would be much more bearable because there would be so many more options.
I think the issue here is that for some weapons it's easy to see how it could be better with this or that sub or special and how it might be better for the game. However I think it's pretty much impossible to predict what the result will be if every possible combination was allowed. Can we really be sure that will make the game better? What if the new meta is a cooler and 3 missiles? That doesn't sound fun. I'm not saying that it would definitely be worse but I am saying that no one could really know either way.

Here's a compromise suggestion I think might be worth trying (not that I really expecting any of this to happen) . What if there was a challenge or set of challenges where you could make your own custom kits. This would allow people to play around and theorycraft without it affecting the state of the game for the normal modes. And who knows, if a cool combination is discovered maybe the devs would consider adding it to the....ok sorry I couldn't say that with a straight face.
 
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Terret

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This is all true...at the very top level of the competitive scene. This is not what 99.99% of the player base experiences. You if you go a little lower and you see a lot more weapon diversity. Genesis X was won by cooler-less comp with Tri-Stringer as the backline. I'm not saying that Tri-Stringer is secretly top tier, Genesis X was not a major or anything. But I'm saying you have to go extremely high up before the meta becomes absolutely constricting. At the very top, when people are going up against the best in the region or even the world, it makes sense that you would want to give yourself every millimeter of advantage you can get and so it makes sense that something like Tetras or E-liter might not quite make that cut. But that's not what the vast majority of people are dealing with.

And custom kits are not going to change any of that. Some of the weapons you mentioned may go into the new top tier but there will still be a lot of weapons that will be relegated to mid tier or lower. There is still going to be a small percentage of the weapon kits out there that will be considered meta and at the very top level of play, those are the weapons that will be picked.

Also side note, I do think Pencil needs a nerf since it's currently the best backline weapon in the game, but that's not really something you need custom kits to fix.



Not sure why these weapons are the ones that should be better than any other given weapon to be honest.



I think the issue here is that for some weapons it's easy to see how it could be better with this or that sub or special and how it might be better for the game. However I think it's pretty much impossible to predict what the result will be if every possible combination was allowed. Can we really be sure that will make the game better? What if the new meta is a cooler and 3 missiles? That doesn't sound fun. I'm not saying that it would definitely be worse but I am saying that anyone could really know either way.

Here's a compromise suggestion I think might be worth trying (not that I really expecting any of this to happen) . What if there was a challenge or set of challenges where you could make your own custom kits. This would allow people to play around and theorycraft without it affecting the state of the game for the normal modes. And who knows, if a cool combination is discovered maybe the devs would consider adding it to the....ok sorry I couldn't say that with a straight face.
I’ll admit, I didn’t see Genesis X and I really want to analyze it because a coolerless bow composition getting first is crazy considering the competition and gives me a lot of hope for theorycrafting. As for why weapons in a decent spot should be better, it’s because most weapons in a “decent” spot are usually incredibly difficult to play without enough of a payoff to be worth it imo. In that regard though, it’s usually less that the kits aren’t strong, rather the main weapons are not strong enough to be reliable. I do like the compromise concept of having it be somewhere cool within game like challenges. While I personally don’t like the time constraint for it, I like the thought of having it at least somewhere. Another compromise in mind (if they ever give third kits) is maybe being able to swap between three given subs and specials that are different for each weapon. I feel like then, broken combinations are much less worrisome and if the dev team gives decent subs and specials for each. Because thinking about it now, it would be terrifying if something like torpedo missiles was available for Squeezer. MAYBE we leave that kit on goo.
 

youre_a_squib_now

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also i'd like to point out that one of the main ways the devs are able to make minor changes to weapon balance is by changing the points for special. with custom kits they wouldn't be able to do that
 

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