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How to Calculate Ability Effects

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Box, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Ashbringer8

    Ashbringer8 Inkling

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    Ah, I see it now after graphing (((((2*(x/60))-((x/60)^2))*0.2497)*1.92)+1.92) for Swim Speed Up. Thanks for the info.
     
  2. Box

    Box Pro Squid

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    Using the data, I've made a graph I'd been wanting to do for a while (Attached).

    I can make more with different Damage=X if people want them.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. GeneraLight

    GeneraLight Inkling Commander

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    So 1 Main is always better than 3 Subs? It seems like you can't reach max unless you have x3 Mains and x9 Subs for that ability.
     
  4. ch0wchilla

    ch0wchilla Inkster Jr.

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    Brilliant work. Many thanks to all those involved in discovering, calculating and disseminating this precious info :)
     
  5. Chocolil

    Chocolil Inkling Cadet

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    So about the Special Charge Up data.
    Here is my max Special Charge Up gear with the Killer Wail Special. 3 Main 6 Subs
    https://my.mixtape.moe/xaoljl.webm

    Percentage seems off or I'm doing math wrong. It looks like I'm getting a 22.5% which is 3 Main 0 Sub instead of the 3 Main 6 Subs which I have.

    I guess another question is was the Prima Guide wrong or were some abilities changed so I missed it. Defense Up should at max be a 20% reduction according to the guide.
     
    #25 Chocolil, Sep 27, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
  6. Box

    Box Pro Squid

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    3 Mains and 6 subs is 48 points.
    160 / (0.3 * (2*(48/60)- (48/60)^2) + 1) = 124

    Special charging in general is kind of weird. That's why I didn't list the percentages in terms of points because I honestly don't know how points interacts with special charge. I know that the game seems to regard the ability as percent going up to 1.3. I believe it and Bomb Range were the abilities that I had no usable data on.

    The guide was wrong about defense up. The mined data lists defense going up to 1/6.
     
  7. ° Moteki

    ° Moteki ¤MÆL°

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    y'all are gods.
     
  8. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    THANK you. Hopefully that gear calculator can finally use accurate values for once. Most of what I've personally seen from my own testing matches up with the numbers you have derived here, so I'm a believer.

    It's just that I still don't like "Ink Saver (Main)" being defined as "additional ink" since your actual tank capacity does not change. Each shot from your main weapon costs less ink, up to a 40% reduction, or 60% the original cost. The numbers look correct, though.

    Also what IS up with your Defense values? The data mined value of 1/6 is the damage reduction, so you'd be looking at 5/6 normal damage, or 83%. What the guidebook states is the inverse 6/5, or 120%, which I suppose is how much your "defense" is "increasing."

    But I think it's a special case here, since no matter what value you use for max Defense, it doesn't counteract max Damage. I believe the game subtracts those points directly before calculating the final value, so you would only see diminishing returns on any excess amount you have over your opponent.
     
  9. mozeurphok

    mozeurphok Inkling

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    Thank you for this wonderful guide ! Really useful and well explained, everything seems to be accurate so far thanks to your formula, bravo !
     
  10. Box

    Box Pro Squid

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    Yeah, once I started noticing the patterns between abilities I got a little lazy with my testing. 86 and 83 are pretty close but I should have noticed the difference. I saw 1/6 and assumed that Nintendo would do something like adding 1/6 to your defense rating and multiplying the damage by the inverse. So my numbers go to 6/7 but I did test it and you're right it goes down to 5/6. I'm correcting the tables at the moment.

    This is why I said I trust the formula more than the tables. I actually had run speed and swim speed wrong when I first posted them but I corrected it before anyone noticed (I think).


    This I actually did for a few reasons. First of all, this is the way that most testers measured it, by counting the number of extra shots in a full tank. Second, it's more informative to think of ink saver main as increasing the size of your tank than thinking of it as making your main weapon more efficient. Ink recovery is actually just as efficient as ink saver main for both mains and subs but the advantage that ink saver main has is that at any level of ink, you have more shots in your tank before you run dry.
     
  11. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Fair enough, and it's not that I think it isn't useful to treat it that way, but it's a secondary, derived statistic. My main beef was how people used this as "proof" that abilities do not have diminishing returns. Even though by the game's terms, you go from 12>22>30% more efficient, reversing that for 14>28>42% capacity makes it appear as if the bonus is linear. But that's only because 3/5 (-40%) looks worse than 5/3 (+66%), even though it's the same thing.

    You can test it the same way as sub weapons. Grab an E-liter and hold a full charge, then mark down how much ink it costs and compare this with various amounts of Ink Saver.

    The distinction is important, since it ties in with other abilities and how you use your weapon(s). If you know how much each shot costs, you can set as much aside after a sub weapon or from an empty tank. And you still recover the same amount of ink, so treating Ink Saver like bonus ink capacity also speeds up ink recovery as well, but only for your main weapon.

    But as far as practical application, Ink Recovery Up could be rearranged to show % of ink per second, rather than time saved on a full tank:
    0Main/0Sub = 33.33% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/1Sub = 34.68% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/2Sub = 36.14% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/3Sub = 37.50% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/0Sub = 37.97% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/4Sub = 38.96% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/1Sub = 39.47% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/5Sub = 40.54% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/2Sub = 40.82% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/6Sub = 41.96% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/3Sub = 42.25% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/0Sub = 42.86% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/7Sub = 43.48% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/4Sub = 43.80% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/1Sub = 44.44% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/8Sub = 44.78% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/5Sub = 45.45% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/2Sub = 45.80% of tank refilled per second
    0Main/9Sub = 46.15% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/6Sub = 46.88% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/3Sub = 47.24% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/0Sub = 47.62% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/7Sub = 48.00% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/4Sub = 48.39% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/1Sub = 48.78% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/8Sub = 49.18% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/5Sub = 50.00% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/2Sub = 50.00% of tank refilled per second
    1Main/9Sub = 50.42% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/6Sub = 50.85% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/3Sub = 51.28% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/7Sub = 52.17% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/4Sub = 52.63% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/8Sub = 53.10% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/5Sub = 53.57% of tank refilled per second
    2Main/9Sub = 54.05% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/6Sub = 54.05% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/7Sub = 54.55% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/8Sub = 55.05% of tank refilled per second
    3Main/9Sub = 55.56% of tank refilled per second

    And since most people tested Special Charge Up by how many points it cost to fill your gauge:
    0Main/0Sub = 0.00% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/1Sub = 2.82% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/2Sub = 5.39% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/3Sub = 7.66% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/0Sub = 8.42% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/4Sub = 9.75% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/1Sub = 10.39% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/5Sub = 11.58% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/2Sub = 12.20% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/6Sub = 13.27% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/3Sub = 13.79% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/0Sub = 14.31% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/7Sub = 14.75% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/4Sub = 15.25% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/1Sub = 15.68% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/8Sub = 16.11% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/5Sub = 16.53% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/2Sub = 16.94% decrease in points required to charge special
    0Main/9Sub = 17.29% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/6Sub = 17.70% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/3Sub = 18.03% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/0Sub = 18.37% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/7Sub = 18.70% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/4Sub = 19.03% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/1Sub = 19.29% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/8Sub = 19.61% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/5Sub = 19.87% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/2Sub = 20.13% decrease in points required to charge special
    1Main/9Sub = 20.38% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/6Sub = 20.63% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/3Sub = 20.82% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/7Sub = 21.26% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/4Sub = 21.45% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/8Sub = 21.81% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/5Sub = 21.94% decrease in points required to charge special
    2Main/9Sub = 22.24% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/6Sub = 22.36% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/7Sub = 22.66% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/8Sub = 22.90% decrease in points required to charge special
    3Main/9Sub = 23.02% decrease in points required to charge special
     
    #31 UnLucky, Oct 7, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
    mindscarp and MrL1193 like this.
  12. Chocolil

    Chocolil Inkling Cadet

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    How much exactly is the Ninja Squid decrease for Swim Speed Up? I guess in my case I'd be running 2 Main 9 Subs.
     
  13. SquiliamTentacles

    SquiliamTentacles Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    I heard somewhere it is 10%, but am not fully sure.
     
  14. cwjakesteel

    cwjakesteel Semi-Pro Squid

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    Are you sure Ink Saver Sub is right? I.e. at maximum ink saver sub will only save you up to 25% of ink used since you are spending only 75% of the amount of ink you would be spending? On the splatoon wiki it said that you reduce ink consumption by 75% instead of reducing ink consumption to 75% of maximum.

    Edit:

    Nevermind...all of these abilities are quite marginal...
     
  15. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    That's what I've noticed, too, but it may or may not be something like subtracting 10-12 points worth of Swim Speed Up.

    Stealth Jump does not directly counteract Quick Super Jump, though, since it adds way more time on the ground than in the air. To balance out you need 2 main abilities, but only the overall time is the same, the distribution still isn't default.

    Ability caps with full slots:
    Damage: 30%
    Defense: -16.7% (+20%)
    Bomb Range: 50%
    Run Speed: 50%
    Swim Speed: 25%
    Ink Recovery: -40% (+66.7%)
    Main Ink Save: -40% (+66.7%)
    Sub Ink Save: -25% (+33.3%)
    Special Save: 100%
    Special Charge: 30%
    Special Duration: 40%
    Quick Respawn: -33.3% (+50%)
    Quick Jump: -50% (+100%)
     
  16. KeebyKakes

    KeebyKakes Senior Squid

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    It looks like with max Special Saver you practically lose nothing when you get splatted, so your special is always safe!
     
  17. Xano

    Xano Inkling

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    Amazing post! Thanks so much for this!
     
  18. Chocolil

    Chocolil Inkling Cadet

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    3 Main 6 Subs and 2 Main 6 Subs
    [​IMG]
    Both overkill as hell unless you know you will be jumping straight into battle.
    I will probably do 2 Main 3 Sub and the rest Special Charge Up.
     
    MissingNumbers likes this.
  19. robosteven

    robosteven Inkling

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    >Defense Up increases aren't inversely proportional to Damage Up increase

    god nintendo fix your broken game
     
  20. Chocolil

    Chocolil Inkling Cadet

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    99.9% for 3 Main 9 Subs you say?

    We all know the .999999 = 1 math conundrum.

    [​IMG]
     

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