I wonder if competitive people will find ridiculous methods for winning

[RespawningJesus]

it's definitely an effective defensive tool, and i don't think it will be overly centralized since there's other effective sub weapons available to use. it'll probably be used for a safe(r) retreat when you've overextended, or like you said, to set up plays for your team. also in one of ProJared's videos (i think it was splat zones?) someone threw a wall down in an almost perfect position and it won them the zone. we're probably going to find "wall spots" for each map like that early in the meta

Exactly. I will definitely be hunting for those spots. However, I still think one wall per team would go a long way, but we shall see.

 

[zmop]

Exactly. I will definitely be hunting for those spots. However, I still think one wall per team would go a long way, but we shall see.

I've attached an image of Urchin Underpass (It's all I know for now,) You can have 4 people with a wall build defending the red circles with 1 wall a piece and 2 people carrying walls and effectively pushing people out of the blue marks to control mid and win. that map is going to be really abusable for a well coordinated team. the other maps aren't as much as i can see.

I'm the type that will break this game down to a science and teach people what to do so trust whatever I learn I will post ha.

 

[FunkyLobster]

I've attached an image of Urchin Underpass (It's all I know for now,) You can have 4 people with a wall build defending the red circles with 1 wall a piece and 2 people carrying walls and effectively pushing people out of the blue marks to control mid and win. that map is going to be really abusable for a well coordinated team. the other maps aren't as much as i can see.

I'm the type that will break this game down to a science and teach people what to do so trust whatever I learn I will post ha.

very good! i'll be making stuff like this too once the game releases

and that last tidbit is something we have in common ;)

 

[RespawningJesus]

I've attached an image of Urchin Underpass (It's all I know for now,) You can have 4 people with a wall build defending the red circles with 1 wall a piece and 2 people carrying walls and effectively pushing people out of the blue marks to control mid and win. that map is going to be really abusable for a well coordinated team. the other maps aren't as much as i can see.

I'm the type that will break this game down to a science and teach people what to do so trust whatever I learn I will post ha.

very good! i'll be making stuff like this too once the game releases

and that last tidbit is something we have in common ;)

Awww, you two are going to be the ones who ruin my fun in trying to discover this stuff.

 

[zmop]

Awww, you two are going to be the ones who ruin my fun in trying to discover this stuff.

:( just don't read my posts. lol.

 

[RespawningJesus]

:( just don't read my posts. lol.

But my thirst for knowledge prevents me!

 

[Undr]

I've attached an image of Urchin Underpass (It's all I know for now,) You can have 4 people with a wall build defending the red circles with 1 wall a piece and 2 people carrying walls and effectively pushing people out of the blue marks to control mid and win. that map is going to be really abusable for a well coordinated team. the other maps aren't as much as i can see.

I'm the type that will break this game down to a science and teach people what to do so trust whatever I learn I will post ha.

A decent counter strat would be to have a sniper in place to put pressure on the "wallers". Then if one teammate can push through, the sniper can lay down avenues of ink for said player. The gamepad would also allow for the sniper to alert teammates to the opportunity to launch themselves to the breaching inkling.

Let's not forget about the signature ability of the Ink Tornado. Being able to deny a large area to the enemy would also break through a waller.


wait... Is there a thread for this sort of discussion already? lol

 

[FunkyLobster]

wait... Is there a thread for this sort of discussion already? lol

well you're in the competitive discussion board, so anything goes, lol

 

[zmop]

A decent counter strat would be to have a sniper in place to put pressure on the "wallers". Then if one teammate can push through, the sniper can lay down avenues of ink for said player. The gamepad would also allow for the sniper to alert teammates to the opportunity to launch themselves to the breaching inkling.

Let's not forget about the signature ability of the Ink Tornado. Being able to deny a large area to the enemy would also break through a waller.


wait... Is there a thread for this sort of discussion already? lol

The specials take time to build up and have a sizable cooldown. Yeah they could change the tide for a moment but it's a small window of opportunity. It's funny because you can LOS the snipers fairly easily if you're competent enough on urchin underpass (people will learn to avoid them or surprise them.) A snipers friend in Splatoon will be high ground and will most likely adapt a camping and avoidance playstyle. They will not have the same mobility as everyone else thus they will be pressured by anyone in their personal space. I am never a fan of weaponry that requires any sort of charging mechanic in PvP and people flock to sniper type long range weapons. I always just focus on anyone who tries to sit back because most of the time they get lazy and are not focused enough to see someone sneaking up behind them. I am all about anything that makes me mobile. Can't wait to see the smaller brush and see if it offers speed over the splat roller.

 

[Endymion]

One thing I can see happening is certain "rules" within the rules to be arranged as a standardized agreement between elitists, like in 4 Glory it's no items, for Splatoon it may be certain weapons only or something of that sort.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

3 casual 5 me

 

[sniper]

Isn't the game going to have ranked and "casual" matches? That might help casual players stick to playing with casual players, and competitive players with competitive players.

 

[IkkaRatto]

Because not everyone wants to have to spend hours practising precise inputs to be able to do certain techs because if they can't do those tech, they don't really stand a chance of competing. It's not about the skill ceiling, it's about the skill floor.

A person doesn't stand a chance in Melee, for example, without being able to wavedash, L-cancel, etc. That's not really fun to compete. Part of the joy of Sm4sh
(and hopefully Splatoon) is that the skill floor is pretty low, but the ceiling is still being pushed. You don't need to be able to Perfect Pivot, Jump Cancel Throw or do a DACIT in Sm4sh to be able to win, even at offline competitions. It certainly helps, but it is not necessary (yet).

Some people want to be competitively good at the game without having to invest hours and hours on those 1 frame inputs.

borp says shut up

no tech skill in melee

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

borp says shut up

no tech skill in melee

Too bad he won't be winning any majors like that.

 

[WydrA]

That all depends on what you mean by glitch. Like there is wavedashing, then there is moon jumping, walking through walls, etc.

Wavedashing actually wasn't a glitch. It was just a thing you could do because of the engine. Sakurai and pretty much everyone else who worked on Melee (which includes Iwata) were fully aware of it's existence before release.

there is such thing as a bad advanced technique that hurts the game, but a lot of players who think ATs are bad are being extremely arbitrary. if you don't want to use them because they're hard to pull off, then don't...? and if you don't want to use a technique because you think it's lame or hurts the pace of the game (like planking in brawl) then don't...? nobody is forcing them upon you. if you were invested enough in the competitive scene to go to a tournament you'd probably want to use every AT at your disposal and have the will to put effort into practicing them. there does not need to be a middle ground for technical and untechnical games. the more techniques there are in a game, the higher the skill ceiling, and if you disagree with using them, then you don't have to...

and if you think an AT is cheap, so what? if you think airdodging out of a combo in smash 4 is unfair or waveshining in melee is too effective, there's nothing stopping you from learning and doing it too. wishing that they'd be removed from the game is an unhealthy mentality; the ARE fair. you CAN do them too. and if you don't want to sink time and effort into learning them, you don't have to. there's always other games (which is what you were trying to say, i think)

but actively wishing ATs were not in splatoon because you don't want to learn them is just a really unhealthy mentality to have. there's nothing in the way of you improving.

this is a really good article that goes in depth to the competitive and scrub mentality and using techniques to your disposal. i really suggest you read it, it words everything better than i can.

I agree with what you're saying, but planking is a bad example lol. That's one of the bad techs. Bad enough it actually was banned from being used eventually.

Are just hope we don't have a divide here on the forums between competitive players and casual players.

I really hope not, but I can tell you that if one side creates the divide it will be casuals. They remain the only ones of the two I've seen to go after people for how they play a game. In every community. This one included.


So OP and other casuals, can we expect a post to similar to this every 5 days to a week? Cool. I look forward to seeing the hundred different ways you can passive aggressively attack people who like playing competitively on the competitive discussion boards.
Hopefully every one of them ends up like this one where interesting discussion actually manages to come out of a crappy, dividing. post.

 

[Jiggly]

I imagine some crazy way of being able to slide on slopes. I can guarantee we will have some sort of crazy mechanic abuse, but patches are gonna be there to stop it :(

 

[ThatsSo]

Looks like I found the people I was getting easy kills off of in the testfire. They're all in this thread, complaining.

 

[WaifuRaccoonBL]

Wavedashing actually wasn't a glitch. It was just a thing you could do because of the engine. Sakurai and pretty much everyone else who worked on Melee (which includes Iwata) were fully aware of it's existence before release.

Which was exactly my point. Wavedashing isn't like "typical glitches" is what I wanted to point out since it being allowed by Sakurai with him noticing means it isn't.

 

[Undr]

Given that this is in the competitive forum venting ones frustration here is fine and all. But I think we should make a conscious effort to keep any negativity between the two philosophies from spreading across the entire forum. While the majority of us here likely feel that games are meant to be competitive and one should use everything at their disposal to win, this can actually be foreseen as a threat to others. A threat that the game they enjoy playing on a casual basis could be ripped from them. While I personally don't believe this to be the case at all, their concerns are real and I feel should be respected.

 

[WydrA]

Which was exactly my point. Wavedashing isn't like "typical glitches" is what I wanted to point out since it being allowed by Sakurai with him noticing means it isn't.

Oh i see. I think it's a more a matter of what falls under tech than what falls under glitch. Some glitches can help the meta, and some can ruin it.

Given that this is in the competitive forum venting ones frustration here is fine and all. But I think we should make a conscious effort to keep any negativity between the two philosophies from spreading across the entire forum. While the majority of us here likely feel that games are meant to be competitive and one should use everything at their disposal to win, this can actually be foreseen as a threat to others. A threat that the game they enjoy playing on a casual basis could be ripped from them. While I personally don't believe this to be the case at all, their concerns are real and I feel should be respected.

Well if they were willing to use logic and have a reasonable discussion sure, but that's not how things go. I think all of us would personally feel that that's kind of ridiculous. We could care less if people play the game casually. We don't have the ability to take that away from them, but they won't even listen to us when we say that, they just make passive aggressive threads like this one :/