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Save Scumming in the competitive environment

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by TheMH, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. Lonely_Dolphin

    Lonely_Dolphin Lord of the Squids

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    I save scum for days, but only fo gear of course! Actually being able to create combos and set-ups for my weapons exactly how I want them to be has really upped the fun and satisfaction I get out of the game!
     
    Mendax and Phobos like this.
  2. Newtonjar

    Newtonjar Senior Squid

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    Just curious, how do you think they can fix the rank problem without ruining save scumming for gear. I was thinking that that maybe they should keep track of rank on the multiplayer servers instead of letting the wii u keep track. I wouldn't know though, does anybody else have any ideas?
     
  3. Damandatwin

    Damandatwin Inkster Jr.

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    If they move your rank to the server I would be really surprised if they didn't also move your gear. I doubt they want to implicitly endorse ****ing around with your save file to gain any sort of advantage. If they really wanted rerolls to be more reasonable they'd probably just do it as a code change so that everyone can benefit.
     
    Mendax likes this.
  4. seakingtheonixpected

    seakingtheonixpected Inkling Cadet

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    Storing saves and gear server side would put a lot of stress on their servers, so it is really unlikely that they would do so.

    I plan on getting triples on all gear and the only reasonable way to do that is save scumming, so I don't feel at all guilty for doing.

    There is another way they could get rid of save scumming though. I tested out save scumming a single slot but you can't because what will be rolled is predecided. They could make re-rolling predetermined as well so that save scumming would be pointless. I'm really hoping they don't do that (at least until I have all my gear natural, pure or shiny)
     
    #104 seakingtheonixpected, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  5. Damandatwin

    Damandatwin Inkster Jr.

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    yeah if they used the MAC address of your Wii U in combination with your NNID or something to seed it that would actually solve it... that makes me nervous, i don't want to think about it anymore.
     
  6. Helios42

    Helios42 Inkling

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    I kinda see where Nintendo's coming from for the low roll percentages, but its a combination of two things:

    - getting time commitment (grumble grumble but that's how sales are made so I won't complain too much - I want this game to be a fiscal success for Nintendo)

    - blocking certain 'overpowered' combinations. It's kinda low key, but you can tell they deliberately separated some combinations - there is no gear that has both ninja squid and a brand bias towards swim speed up. There is no gear where the dominant ability is the same as the brand bias ability (and frequently they even are counter to each other). The general trend seems to be a focus on making sure good skills have actual costs, and placing limits on maxing out a single stat . Overall in theory that might help to make it more balanced and favors diversity.

    However, having those blocks be based on REALLY HARD TO GET BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE RNG is fundamentally flawed. I would prefer totally blocking overpowered sets or totally accepting overpowered sets (either way more people have more access to an equal playing field, which means a healthier meta). Instead, blocking it with psuedo-impossibility creates a low supply, high demand system that provides a huge incentive to do whatever it takes to get the rare goods. Save Scumming helps to mitigate this cost, so by all means. I haven't needed to myself, because I don't usually need to max out a stat, but I think it's best to try and increase access to an equal playing ground.

    Not sure how to fix this without revamping how gear works though.
     
    #106 Helios42, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  7. TherealSquidKid

    TherealSquidKid Inkling

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    no it's not like the lottery because this is a video game
     
  8. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth Senior Squid

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    I don't get what you're saying. The whole POINT of the mode is to carry the Rainmaker.
     
  9. GeneraLight

    GeneraLight Inkling Commander

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    Wrong. It is a lottery.
     
  10. sammich

    sammich Inkling Cadet

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    i've noticed a number of S rank players in solo queue (turf and ranked both) who can't begin to keep up with their teams. sometimes they just give up and stand around the spawn after losing the advantage rather than attempt to retake it (they aren't squidflopping or taunting). it's pretty annoying... but what's more annoying, imo, is the MAAASSIVE amount of good players who've started up secondary accounts and go around as a low-level squid hopping around with their tentateks and basic clothes.

    anyway, i think it's fine if you do it for rerolls. the whole reroll thing is dumb to begin with. it's expensive, you have low chances to get what you want at all, you can't change your clothes' main ability, and the brands kinda force you into one sub anyway (if you're lucky enough to get that much). it was obviously designed to artificially raise replayability, but it's a basic and annoying system.
     
    ThisFungi, The ΩS and GeneraLight like this.
  11. The ΩS

    The ΩS Retired

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    Hmmm...

    In most cases for rank (and probably my only main reason why I'm against it), it's a lot of people using it to boost to S+. Now I (as in me) can understand if its used as a safety net due to temporary Internet troubles or game modes and stages combinations that will guarantee your rank change back down a spot or several (may not be a common occurrence but it does happen; recommend to play at better times like JPN splatfests or game modes with reasonable stages).

    But if neither of those really effect the people in question, then I agree without a second thought that its unfair for the team you're on, especially if you cause the losses. If your skill is C'ish or B'ish, it's going to show when you face S or S+ rank players and you will be buried alive by them. Kinda debatable with A's since the higher part of A's makes it a roll of the dice to win or lose..

    Not going to say much on rolls though since it's a broken record. But for rank, it's morally wrong to save scum without understanding the weight of one's repercussions being heavier than the entire team's downfall. If you do it and stay there, then letters for you were an annoying roadblock. Otherwise, this option is not recommend if you're going to cause yourself and three other Inklings time and ranking. Or disregard everything I just said above and "just don't."
     
    #111 The ΩS, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  12. KayB

    KayB Semi-Pro Squid

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    Having an RNG-based system that benefits certain players over others is literally as uncompetitive as it gets from a design perspective, so I'm fine with rerolls.
     
  13. Astral

    Astral Astral Finish!

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    @My sig, its just time consuming when it comes to savescumming, but its completely fair

    EDIT: probably should include i didnt save scum for these, its just to show that even save scumming could still take a while to get the gear you want. Everyone has access to this method so its like a double negative for those that think its unfair.
     
    #113 Astral, Feb 2, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  14. Breademic

    Breademic Senior Squid

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    I've heard of save scumming but didn't know it could be applied towards gear and rank.
    I had no idea that the general consensus would be okay for save scumming.
    With that being said.. S+99 HERE WE GOO!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA

    jkjk, once I get at least a million coins I'm gonna attempt this save scumming technique for gear.
    No more wasting time crying over 2/3 subs.
     
  15. Of Moose & Men

    Of Moose & Men Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    The consensus is okay, pretty much only when it comes to scumming for gear. Even most of us scummers would agree using it to achieve a new rank is stupid and hurts you and the people around you and shouldn't be done.
     
  16. Breademic

    Breademic Senior Squid

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    GUYS, I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING! -I'm sorry if someone else has discovered this-

    I was just thinking.. ok so.. we've been talking about save scumming for Ranks and for Rerolls.
    And also, we wish there was a way to somehow reroll for each individual ability slot. WELL THERE'S A WAY! kinda


    The only requirement is that the gear has no ability in the sub slots, unless of course it has the ability that you want.
    SO, this method is to save scum for each ability slot. I'm sorry if I'm failing at explaining.

    Anyway, here's an example.

    So you have this lovely Hairpin from the Girl Inkling amiibo :head_amb000: that has :ability_swimspeed: main ability. (with no abilities in the sub slots)
    And you want Bomb Range Up :ability_bombrange: for all sub slots.
    So what you do is save scum, before going into any battle.
    After you saved your data, go into battle, win that turf war, and unlock the ability slot. Was it the ability you wanted? No? Then reload the previous data.
    Keep doing this until you unlocked the ability you want.
    Once you get the ability that you want. Save scum.
    Then repeat until you finally get the abilities you want on your sub slots.



    Yes, this is time consuming. But what's also time consuming is trying to earn millions of coins to reroll at Spyke's.
    It's just another method.

    I have not tried this yet, but this is just an idea.
    Can someone confirm if this'll work?

     
  17. Elecmaw

    Elecmaw Lord of the Squids

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    I believe it doesn't work, rolls are predetermined when you get the gear.
     
  18. Breademic

    Breademic Senior Squid

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    Nooooo you're breaking my dreams.
    You sure about this?
     
  19. Of Moose & Men

    Of Moose & Men Inkling Fleet Admiral

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    Unfortunately, it is the truth. Can't go about it that way. The second you buy it all the slots are determined until you re roll them.
    Sorry.
     
  20. seakingtheonixpected

    seakingtheonixpected Inkling Cadet

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    Yeah it doesn't work. I though I'd be sneaky and try to purify my Legendary cap one slot at a time, but it turns out the first rolls on each slot are predetermined.

    Even if it's a 1 star piece of gear and you add slots its already determined before you add the slot.
     

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