Splatoon as a live service game. Yay or nay?

[Vidknight]

Alright this was originally going to be a profile post talking about my dislike for live service games. But I got to thinking about splatoon and the whole live service thing and I wondered what is the general consensus on splatoon being a live service game so I decided to ask here.

Live service games are usually game that are Free to play, online multiplayer, and constantly gets updated with new stuff. On paper this sounds like a great thing. Some people struggle financially especially in 3rd world countries where 60$ is basically their entire monthly income so a F2P game would be more accessible. Not only that it also open the gates for more people to join the splatoon community as well as the comp scene which would be huge. Along with the constant updates means that the game would always be evolving with new weapons, kits, stages, and possibly even modes and limited time events. All of this sound great, but it comes with a giant asterisk.

Live service games had basically become infamous for pulling a ton of scummy tactics to squeeze out every nickel from the playerbase. From FOMO being spammed everywhere and taking advantage of that on more younger players who don't understand better. To just outright P2W mechanics basically forcing new players to drop a bag to not get curb stomp by Vets (I'm disrespectfully looking at you Brawlstars and Multiversus). Nintendo even shown that wouldn't be afraid of doing something like this with Mario Kart Tour when Diddy Kong costed almost 50$!

So that is my question to you do you think that the benefits of splatoon being live service outweigh the negative? Should Splatoon be a live service game? How much money are you willing to put into something like this?

 

[sevenleaf]

splatoon is a weird case because, like... it's factually neither f2p nor p2w. the only extra purchase is the expansion pass which doesn't impact multiplayer gameplay at all (beyond giving a few gear items that function the same as the gear included with the base game and the order weapon reskins). but they still, i dunno, cosplay as your average f2p live service game, for... some reason?

personally i've always played enough to finish my catalog without worry, and the gacha mechanics never really pulled me in. sometimes i remember to do my daily discounted pull and that's really it. especially now that the new catalog content is over i forget often that splatoon 3 is live service-adjacent. but i also have a friend for whom finishing the catalog did begin to feel like an obligation in a way i could never really relate to.

gonna be real though if splatoon 4 started having in-game purchases beyond singleplayer dlc i am NOT buying it lol (it as in those purchases, and maybe the game itself). pay-to-win tactics would completely screw over any semblance of competitive integrity for us comp folks so i'd be an advocate for not shifting the comp scene to the new game if that were the case. i really don't expect that will be the case, though; at least, i haven't been given any reason to believe it would

 

[Cephalobro]

I vote nay, I really don't want Nintendo to start acting like EA when it comes to their console games and start charging for a lot of their things within the game, heck I still hate the Shell-Out Machine because it literally is P2W with a fancy name, the only difference is that it doesn't require real-world currency to do it. The Shell-Out Machine basically works like lootboxes from the many P2W Minecraft servers where you spend your currency only for a chance to get a good item, it's an extremely predatory practice to force this onto children who don't know any better.

TLDR: Nay because any form of gambling should not be forced onto children, period.

 

[Smash Arena]

Splatoon definitely shouldn't be a live service game. The series works fine as a one-time purchase which gradually expands over a set course of time. Reminds me more of games like Halo 3 and late 2000s COD games as opposed to something like Fortnite or Overwatch.

The problem with consumers these days is that many have the attention span of a gnat that just drank a Venti-sized drink at Starbucks. They feel like they constantly need new things (like updates/DLC) to games for their interest to be maintained. Wind the clock back to the OG Halo days, and most of your content was there Day 1, on the disc, and that's what players engaged with for years on end without getting bored. Sure, there was DLC, but that was only every once in a while, not once a month or even more often. Nowadays a lot of players claim a game is dead the second it stops getting constant content updates.

I like how Nintendo handles Splatoon. It has plenty of content to keep you busy on Day 1, but is consistently expanded for a set amount of time that is well-communicated to players. This works well for both parties; the players know exactly what to expect while Nintendo can plan accordingly based on that promise. It even leads to present surprises like when Splatoon 2's content cycle was expanded by a few months, which led to new content we weren't even expecting and MPU lol.

 

[missingno]

Live services come in a lot of different shapes and sizes, but I would say the core definition is just a game that gets frequent updates to keep players coming back and become a core part of their routine.

TBH, I kind of don't like the term because I think it is too vague. Vague enough that I could argue Splatoon may already count. It definitely has a lot in common with the games we typically talk about when we talk about live services.

Even all the way back to S1, the first several updates were already on the disc, waiting for a signal from the server to unlock them. Every big patch you actually had to download, was actually the next several updates batched together. All of this was done to drip feed content so you'd keep coming back. Not to mention the heavy emphasis on limited time events you should check in for - Splatfests.

A lot of design decisions in S3 look to me like they're intentionally taking after other live service games. Big seasonal updates are a common trend nowadays. The catalog is a FOMO battle pass that incentivizes you to get a certain amount of grinding in by the end of the season. Extra points on your first win of the day is a daily login bonus, and the soft cap per-rotation on Salmon Run rewards is also meant to encourage frequent check-ins. Even more events ask you to regularly keep up with the game's schedule. There's even a gacha machine to randomize your hunt for cosmetics.

I think the only things setting Splatoon apart from other games we call live services are a lack of microtransactions, and an established end date for how many updates we'll get. So is that what the question is? If not, what else are you including in the definition of live service here?

 

[Zonink]

Live service is a very nebulous term. Live service really just boils down to "Online game that receives content updates."

Splatoon as a series is definitely a live service game, at least at certain points it has been. Every single game in the series has, for the most part released unfinished and then patched into a full experience. It's entirely possible that these games are mostly finished at launch and then cut down into smaller updates to keep player interest. Splatoon 1 notoriously kept weapons like Hydra Splatling and Sloshing Machine locked up for months in the code of the game. In a weird way none of the updates to the game are really free, just content that was promised to the playerbase after launch.

It doesn't really matter if splatoon doesn't have microtransactions, although it does in the form of DLC content. But that's not really the same as the premium currencies and skins that other multiplayer games use. Splatoon 3 is a lot better about dealing with FOMO which is heavily attributed to the live service "genre" but it still has it in the form of the Catalog, Splatfests, Big Run, Eggstra Work, and Challenges.

I guess it just depends on what people consider live service to be. Splatoon isn't the same as a Freemium Shooter like Apex or OW2, but it still possesses a lot of the same structure that those games have. even more so than other online paid shooters.

 

[Vidknight]

After looking over the comments and thinking it over it seems like my initial post was worded horribly my bad. I guess what I meant to say is "Should splatoon go F2P? and monetize through other methods like for example weapon skins and/or exclusive emotes". So really the proper term was a freemium shooter like Zonink had mentioned. Splatoon is already a live service game as others had mentioned so a live service game can't become live service^2.

A lot of design decisions in S3 look to me like they're intentionally taking after other live service games. Big seasonal updates are a common trend nowadays. The catalog is a FOMO battle pass that incentivizes you to get a certain amount of grinding in by the end of the season. Extra points on your first win of the day is a daily login bonus, and the soft cap per-rotation on Salmon Run rewards is also meant to encourage frequent check-ins. Even more events ask you to regularly keep up with the game's schedule. There's even a gacha machine to randomize your hunt for cosmetics.

Splatoon 3 is a lot better about dealing with FOMO which is heavily attributed to the live service "genre" but it still has it in the form of the Catalog, Splatfests, Big Run, Eggstra Work, and Challenges.

Another thing I didn't really mention much in my post that was brought up here (God I really need to start thinking before posting) was the already current Trends that splatoon has in the game the other freemium games has. Personally I also don't really like any of these especially the Catalog as it resemble something that I loathe. Fun fact the season model was the one and only thing I audibly groaned at during the splatoon 3 direct. Personally I hope that future splatoon games drop the whole LTM thing.

 

[Masked_Katz]

I don't think Splatoon needs any changes in that regard. Even if it successfully became F2P and it's microtransactions weren't expensive, this sort of direction usually results in games that live on for too long and are bloated with content that overwhelms new and returning players (which is why I can't get into most MMOs unless I'm there for the launch.) I got the paid version of Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp on Christmas and, while it's a great game that I played A LOT at launch, even it suffers from tons of pop-ups and a lack of information for players out of the loop. I once was conflicted about the idea of restarting Splatoon every few years with each new release, but I have come to actually appreciate it.

With that said, I wouldn't be opposed to a F2P Splatoon spin-off. I've mentioned how cool that would be before, but I think that would be best if Nintendo wanted to experiment more with F2P, especially if its while we wait for 4.

 

[sevenleaf]

i just really don't think we have to worry about splatoon going freemium tbh

nintendo's been experimenting with mobile f2p model stuff for a while at this point and i don't think it's drastically affected their approach to console games. the most we have for extra purchases is dlc (and amiibo debatably) - and in splatoon's case, that hasn't even touched multiplayer beyond cosmetics

people in other places are kinda doomposting right now about how (comp/general) Splatoon Is Dead and while the comp community is having some meaningful conversations about how we could approach aspects of competitive play differently, a point i see brought up both for comp and the game as a whole is "update cycle is over, game's dead now." and like... no? if the alternative is a freemium game that updates forever and ever and ever at the (literal) price of being loaded with microtransactions, why would you want that? do you really stop having fun because there's no shiny new toys to play with??

 

[3rd kit]

Alright this was originally going to be a profile post talking about my dislike for live service games. But I got to thinking about splatoon and the whole live service thing and I wondered what is the general consensus on splatoon being a live service game so I decided to ask here.

Live service games are usually game that are Free to play, online multiplayer, and constantly gets updated with new stuff. On paper this sounds like a great thing. Some people struggle financially especially in 3rd world countries where 60$ is basically their entire monthly income so a F2P game would be more accessible. Not only that it also open the gates for more people to join the splatoon community as well as the comp scene which would be huge. Along with the constant updates means that the game would always be evolving with new weapons, kits, stages, and possibly even modes and limited time events. All of this sound great, but it comes with a giant asterisk.

Live service games had basically become infamous for pulling a ton of scummy tactics to squeeze out every nickel from the playerbase. From FOMO being spammed everywhere and taking advantage of that on more younger players who don't understand better. To just outright P2W mechanics basically forcing new players to drop a bag to not get curb stomp by Vets (I'm disrespectfully looking at you Brawlstars and Multiversus). Nintendo even shown that wouldn't be afraid of doing something like this with Mario Kart Tour when Diddy Kong costed almost 50$!

So that is my question to you do you think that the benefits of splatoon being live service outweigh the negative? Should Splatoon be a live service game? How much money are you willing to put into something like this?

Idk about 3rd world countries being able to play Splatoon if it was live service because the richest country where the average income is $60 per month (around $2 per day) is Mozambique, according to gapminder, and I wouldn't expect to see that many people from Mozambique on Fortnite because 62.8% of the population live in poverty so their main concern is like being able to afford food and shelter and electricity.

The main reason why I don't want Splatoon to go live service is because it sucks when ur playing clash royale and some dumb kid whips out his over leveled midladder menace deck and taunts you with an emote he paid for and he thinks he's so special for paying money. It kind of just ruins the experience. Even though I escaped midladder, it sucks that you have to pay so much money (more than paying to buy a non-live service game) in order to get to top level.

 

[Vidknight]

I don't think Splatoon needs any changes in that regard. Even if it successfully became F2P and it's microtransactions weren't expensive, this sort of direction usually results in games that live on for too long and are bloated with content that overwhelms new and returning players (which is why I can't get into most MMOs unless I'm there for the launch.) I got the paid version of Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp on Christmas and, while it's a great game that I played A LOT at launch, even it suffers from tons of pop-ups and a lack of information for players out of the loop. I once was conflicted about the idea of restarting Splatoon every few years with each new release, but I have come to actually appreciate it.

people in other places are kinda doomposting right now about how (comp/general) Splatoon Is Dead and while the comp community is having some meaningful conversations about how we could approach aspects of competitive play differently, a point i see brought up both for comp and the game as a whole is "update cycle is over, game's dead now." and like... no? if the alternative is a freemium game that updates forever and ever and ever at the (literal) price of being loaded with microtransactions, why would you want that? do you really stop having fun because there's no shiny new toys to play with??

Side tangent here, but I always disliked how it's now expected that a game must get a new update every 30 minutes or else the game is dead as such it leads to games feeling incredibly bloated in a way. For example fortnite for me I never really had much of a negative opinion on the game I actually liked it, but the last time I tried to boot the game up like a year ago I just sat looking at the 15 thousand menus and all the flashing buttons for like 5 minutes before turning the game off. But lets not get to off topic of the thread here which is splatoon as a freemium game

i just really don't think we have to worry about splatoon going freemium tbh

nintendo's been experimenting with mobile f2p model stuff for a while at this point and i don't think it's drastically affected their approach to console games. the most we have for extra purchases is dlc (and amiibo debatably) - and in splatoon's case, that hasn't even touched multiplayer beyond cosmetics

Honestly not worried either this is more of a hypothetical would you rather question of sorts

With that said, I wouldn't be opposed to a F2P Splatoon spin-off. I've mentioned how cool that would be before, but I think that would be best if Nintendo wanted to experiment more with F2P, especially if its while we wait for 4.

Honestly would like something like that a spin off F2P game so that way people who like splatoon for the main game would still be fine. The only problem I might have is people who don't like splatoon pvp and want a spin off of sorts and gets a cash grab mobile game. Keyword might as it depends on how the game is monetized.

 

[Algae]

well, smash bros melee spent literal decades without a dev's hand or even an eye on its content, and its comp scene is thriving! outside that, people have their reasons why playing an earlier splatoon game has a positive impact on their daily lives. i wouldn't say games need to be constantly updated to be replayable or "not dead"! look at games with custom levels! look at competently-designed roguelikes! look at action games people would gain a lot of sense-pleasure from interacting with!

 

[missingno]

I come from a FGC background, and I play a number of boomer games that predate even the concept of updates. It's easy to say that a good game shouldn't need updates to be worth sticking with if you love it.

It's easy to say that, but I understand the state of gaming today. There are so many multiplayer games competing for players' attention, competing to be your forever game that you log into every day. If you don't keep dangling fresh shinies in front of players, you will lose their attention to games that do.

Truthfully, I haven't touched S3 in a while myself. I've got enough other games that I'm juggling, old and new, other competitive scenes I'm involved with and a FGC major I'm prepping for in three weeks. I'm actually thinking I might be moving on from S3. It's not that I don't like S3, but my attention is elsewhere these days, and no updates does mean nothing is going to pull me back in and grab my attention back.