Squad Composition Meta

[TheRapture]

The charger isn't fool-proof but it has major advantages when it comes to ensuring map control as efficiently as possible. In a situation where you're charge shotting, you'll have set up in a location where you're watching entry points. Each map has a couple of these in regards to major zone objectives within a turf war and because you have ink control at these points, your opponent can't rapidly enter in such a way that it will be hard to hit them. Shooters can't push on them because ink is between them and the Charger, and sneaky movements can be noticed on the minimap.

Definitely. Chargers are definitely good. Especially out of spawn, and in conjunction with mobile Splatshooter users. Def agree with you here.

The roller helps your expansion (and when the enemy pushes and you repel them, they can quickly close up holes in your ink defenses. Say at the start of the round 1 team has one roller and the other doesn't. The roller expands at the beginning past the midline of the map because it's faster than the shooters or chargers the enemy may have. Immediately your opponent is on the back foot, and a charger can potentially setup and just keep that advantage going. I don't think you should rely on coming back at the end of the game; rather you should push your opponent off early and snowball your advantage.

I didn't mean relying on coming back at the end of the game, I mean it's pretty easy to secure the lead in the end because of how rollers play. Maybe that'll change over time. But I still see them as a major liability.

With that said, you definitely still need Shooters; a game can't be won off defense alone. You still need to be able to throw the punches. Which is why I think the standard team is 2 Shooter, 1 Roller, 1 Charger.

Fair. I think my ideal setup would be 3 Shooter and a Charger, but I think you're option is just as viable.

 

[Kayeka]

I agree with DNE on 2 shooters, 1 roller, 1 charger. It gives pushing power, paints ground easily and makes sure that your pushers don't have to deal with the busywork of painting and defending when they could be out there securing more territory.

 

[flc]

I agree with DNE on 2 shooters, 1 roller, 1 charger. It gives pushing power, paints ground easily and makes sure that your pushers don't have to deal with the busywork of painting and defending when they could be out there securing more territory.

but that's exactly the problem we're talking about. what is a roller going to do when it gets jumped? it'll either run away or get bopped. it can't fight back. 'easy' painting is not beneficial to a team that knows how to use shooters to actually do things, and then a 3-shooter team can turn around and push hard as a group of 3 whenever they feel like it. if you have a roller that can't do anything offensive without a LOT of setup, you limit your options way too much.

the dynamo roller from the direct may alleviate this by its sheer brute force (massive aoe oneshot? lel) and the brush might be able to work with its very high speed and improved range potential, but the current roller is too weak on offense and too specialised on defence to work outside of an ambushing capacity.

probably.

 

[DNE]

but that's exactly the problem we're talking about. what is a roller going to do when it gets jumped? it'll either run away or get bopped. it can't fight back. 'easy' painting is not beneficial to a team that knows how to use shooters to actually do things, and then a 3-shooter team can turn around and push hard as a group of 3 whenever they feel like it. if you have a roller that can't do anything offensive without a LOT of setup, you limit your options way too much.

the dynamo roller from the direct may alleviate this by its sheer brute force (massive aoe oneshot? lel) and the brush might be able to work with its very high speed and improved range potential, but the current roller is too weak on offense and too specialised on defence to work outside of an ambushing capacity.

probably.

I don't think the roller needs to fight though. Say you push past the midline. You either need to dedicate people to securing the free coverage zones you acquire (like on the Salt Rig) or you can just have your roller quickly do it. You just put your enemy on the back foot because you can dedicate your offensive people elsewhere. And then on defense they can hold non-vertical points along with Chargers, and if they aren't getting attacked; say the enemy hard pushes your shooters. The roller can really rapidly capitalize on being left alone; further closing off movement for your enemies until you've pushed them to spawn, which is how I feel high level battles will end up in Splatoon in turf wars; you secure the advantage and slowly strangle them out of the game.

 

[Kayeka]

but that's exactly the problem we're talking about. what is a roller going to do when it gets jumped? it'll either run away or get bopped. it can't fight back. 'easy' painting is not beneficial to a team that knows how to use shooters to actually do things, and then a 3-shooter team can turn around and push hard as a group of 3 whenever they feel like it. if you have a roller that can't do anything offensive without a LOT of setup, you limit your options way too much.

the dynamo roller from the direct may alleviate this by its sheer brute force (massive aoe oneshot? lel) and the brush might be able to work with its very high speed and improved range potential, but the current roller is too weak on offense and too specialised on defence to work outside of an ambushing capacity.

probably.

A roller that is getting jumped is a roller surrounded by their ow ink. Plenty of options to retreat, flank and harass an enemy with far less movement options. They also have an easier time doing a jaws impression and just wait near the usual routes for a loner enemy to get in.

Also, what DNE said.

 

[flc]

I don't think the roller needs to fight though. Say you push past the midline. You either need to dedicate people to securing the free coverage zones you acquire (like on the Salt Rig) or you can just have your roller quickly do it. You just put your enemy on the back foot because you can dedicate your offensive people elsewhere. And then on defense they can hold non-vertical points along with Chargers, and if they aren't getting attacked; say the enemy hard pushes your shooters. The roller can really rapidly capitalize on being left alone; further closing off movement for your enemies until you've pushed them to spawn, which is how I feel high level battles will end up in Splatoon in turf wars; you secure the advantage and slowly strangle them out of the game.

hold on. you're saying that the roller won't be fighting; how would a team set up any kind of spawn camp with only 3 projectile weapons against a team with 4? the spawn points in both demo maps are easily pushed out of (high ground spawn in warehouse, nowhere to safely camp in rig and too many escape routes). to get the other team on the back foot, you need to win mid (best of luck 3v4), beat their next spawn wave (again 3v4 and now with them having spawn advantage), and then set up a spawn camp. rollers having an easier time spreading ink is NOT worth any of this compared to having an extra shooter that can be used for basically anything, including securing territory from outside of the other team's sightlines. if you want to ink lower spawn on warehouse, you have to expose yourself to the other team with a roller while you can use one of the side paths as cover when using a shooter.

A roller that is getting jumped is a roller surrounded by their ow ink. Plenty of options to retreat, flank and harass an enemy with far less movement options. They also have an easier time doing a jaws impression and just wait near the usual routes for a loner enemy to get in.

Also, what DNE said.

harass an enemy with a roller? that's... not a thing that happens, they're one-shot weapons with extremely short range. flanking only works if you have ink on either side of the other team, which rollers can't do by themselves. retreating is a win for the other team. what happens when a roller starts getting shot at? the ground around them gets painted with the other team's ink, and they can't just quickly drop a trail behind them and run away like even chargers can. furthermore, no competent player is going to walk into the other team's ink with a roller on the other team... unless they too are using a roller, in which case they have no choice but to run out into no-man's land since they have no safe ink spread option

again, dynamo rollers and paintbrushes may yet be viable, but the roller in the demo was easily the weakest of the four and the only one that is unlikely to be viable outside of gimmick strategies

 

[DNE]

hold on. you're saying that the roller won't be fighting; how would a team set up any kind of spawn camp with only 3 projectile weapons against a team with 4? the spawn points in both demo maps are easily pushed out of (high ground spawn in warehouse, nowhere to safely camp in rig and too many escape routes). to get the other team on the back foot, you need to win mid (best of luck 3v4), beat their next spawn wave (again 3v4 and now with them having spawn advantage), and then set up a spawn camp. rollers having an easier time spreading ink is NOT worth any of this compared to having an extra shooter that can be used for basically anything, including securing territory from outside of the other team's sightlines. if you want to ink lower spawn on warehouse, you have to expose yourself to the other team with a roller while you can use one of the side paths as cover when using a shooter.

You don't need to camp them directly on top of spawn, but on rig there are 2 paths to go branching out from spawn, and on warehouse you have 3. This is where your charger comes in. They do the majority of the work when it comes to spawn camping; when you limit a teams options between 2 or 3 paths, and they have to walk through charger fire to get there, 3v4 isn't a concern. The roller helps you get to the point where the Charger has initiative and can actually go about laying down the spawn camp. If you hold them at these points, where position will trump numbers, you've probably won.

 

[Lyn]

It will likely vary from map to map, playstyle, and etc;.

 

[WydrA]

i'm not sure what you mean. do you mean to say a player lays down ink and another splatterhops through it, without shooting? the only reason to splatterhop is because there's not ink in the first place, jumping doesn't actually save you time in squid form because you already move at a 2x your regular walk, and the arcs in your jumps in squid mode make that slower. so there's not much point for a player laying down ink and having another hop through it, unless splatterhopping is actually faster than just regularly swimming & your jumps are actually faster and i'm completely wrong lol

or do you mean another player followers the trail a splatterhopper leaves behind (which is what i think you meant)? that would work early in the round when rolling out of spawn for sure, i've actually done that before one round when i matched up with someone who knew how to splatterhop, but it'll be tricky and you probably wont find specific patches of ink like that later in the round when both teams manage to coat most of the map in their ink. that would make rolling out effective for charger as well as roller users, at least early in the round

also that's a really good video, did you make that?

Was talking about the second. It would be tricky but it could be worth to get a charger into a good sinping position very quickly.For example, imagine this:
Saltspray rig: Game starts, Splatter shot/jr splatdashes (with charger following in the pools) to north and sprays up the stacked containers, then begins to move around and spray the rest of the area (maybe inkler (lol)) from another high spot. Mean while Charger sits on the top of the containers and waits for the other team to start coming through choke point, where hopefully he/she could pick them off like flies. Pretty much guaranteed capture of north if all goes well.

I really wish this could be tested. The physics may even allow for the charger to literally just swim from pool to pool and not have to hop since when splat dashing is optimized you're doing just that.

also no, unfortunately I did not make that video. I can't splatdash that well unfortunately haha. Credit goes to @Flying_Tortoise

splatterhopping (I already can tell I will hate this term)

Lol I know what you mean. There were several points yesterday where the words just kind of lost meaning and I questioned what I was doing with my life. I personally shorten them to S-hop and s-dash sometimes. Sounds less weird in my opinion.

I somewhat agree. I find a team of 4 Splattershots/Splattershot Jrs much more intimidating than 4 Rollers or Splat Chargers, mainly because the Splattershots are far more versatile with combat, ink coverage and movement. They're the middle ground. Plus, the Splattershot Jr
had that shield in the demo and that thing was so incredibly satisfying. With that said, a well-balanced team is obviously going to be the most intimidating every time. Part of me thinks the main reason why people seem to be underestimating the Splattershots is because, as Kayeka said, the others are more interesting to talk about, and the Splattershots seem to be the 'standard' weapon and there's not really much to say about them.

I don't know about ink coverage. Unless you "Inkler (lol)" -which requires high ground- I find rollers to be better at ink coverage. Splattershot leaves too many holes. Geting it perfect requires more time.

You know what? I'm giving you a like not being part of the "Rollers are OP" crowd. While I don't agree that rollers are a liability, they are definitely not as godlike as some people might say.

Lol then I think you have to give everyone in this thread a like :p

It will likely vary from map to map, playstyle, and etc;.

Lol that's been stated like every fifth post :P

 

[Life]

I'm thinking 2 flexible-shooter, 1 charger/ranged-shooter, 1 roller/assassin+coverage-shooter is ideal as a general-purpose comp.

On maps like Walleye Warehouse where there's one central hub that must be controlled, you'll want to send the first three three members to it as fast as possible and try to secure it as soon as possible. Have the last player secure the low-hanging fruit areas around the base, then a little ways in once the chaos has started unfolding and the ink patterns are getting erratic, you send them in to gank someone and turn the tide in that area. Then the first two fan out to poke into enemy territory and see where they're weak, the third sits a little behind them as backup-slash-fortification, and the fourth cleans up stray bits of enemy ink while being on call to help if someone gets jumped. If things go south, send a flex shooter in behind the enemy team to force them to back up (with the understanding they're going to die for the betterment of the team, just try to live and cause havoc as long as possible), and while the enemy team is split your defense can push them back to the central staging area.

On maps with two major asymmetrical staging areas like Saltspray Rig, you secure the more important area at the beginning in the same way, but this time the fourth player is a scout who tries to safely harass whatever enemy players go down to the bottom area. If nobody shows up there you take some for free and then ASAP super-jump to your team because they're probably pushing as four in the big area. If one person shows up you duel them. If two or more players show up, tell your team and try to keep them there as long as possible without getting yourself killed (as my childhood basketball coach told me, a double-team leaves the enemy shorthanded elsewhere). If your team is halfway competent they'll be able to secure the big area by the time you're forced out of the small one. Once the big area is secure, leave the third player nearby to fortify it while the other players spread out as normal.

Communication is vital. Remember that you can super jump at any time, not just from the spawn point. This means it's very possible to turn around a shorthanded engagement provided your friend can survive long enough.

 

[Flying_Tortoise]

Was talking about the second. It would be tricky but it could be worth to get a charger into a good sinping position very quickly.For example, imagine this:
Saltspray rig: Game starts, Splatter shot/jr splatdashes (with charger following in the pools) to north and sprays up the stacked containers, then begins to move around and spray the rest of the area (maybe inkler (lol)) from another high spot. Mean while Charger sits on the top of the containers and waits for the other team to start coming through choke point, where hopefully he/she could pick them off like flies. Pretty much guaranteed capture of north if all goes well.

I really wish this could be tested. The physics may even allow for the charger to literally just swim from pool to pool and not have to hop since when splat dashing is optimized you're doing just that.

also no, unfortunately I did not make that video. I can't splatdash that well unfortunately haha. Credit goes to @Flying_Tortoise

haha thanks for the shoutout.
But I was actually thinking the same thing with a splattershot/jr and Charger teaming up in the North. In the meantime the other two probably a roller and splattershot can take the south. Then when the North is contained the 1st splattershot/jr. could superjump to the southside while Charger keeps the area.

edit: man the strategy is going to be so much fun to come up with, when we get our hands on this game.

 

[WydrA]

haha thanks for the shoutout.
But I was actually thinking the same thing with a splattershot/jr and Charger teaming up in the North. In the meantime the other two probably a roller and splattershot can take the south. Then when the North is contained the 1st splattershot/jr. could superjump to the southside while Charger keeps the area.

edit: man the strategy is going to be so much fun to come up with, when we get our hands on this game.

No problem, I gotchu man :P
Also glad we think along such imilar lines. That squad synergy is gonna be off the charts. InkZooka squad pushing the meta to new levels lol

 

[Roksys]

but that's exactly the problem we're talking about. what is a roller going to do when it gets jumped?

I know this isn't what you were talking about, but that wording makes me curious. If a roller is coming at me, could I jump over it and hit him from behind? Is the hitbox just with the actual roller on the ground?

 

[Gsnap]

Interesting Charger discussion so far. Honestly, I don't see Chargers having much of a function in Turf War. But that's ok. They'll definitely get their uses in Tower Control. The entire point of that mode is to shoot at a sitting duck on a tower. You gotta have a charger on your team for that.

 

[WydrA]

I know this isn't what you were talking about, but that wording makes me curious. If a roller is coming at me, could I jump over it and hit him from behind? Is the hitbox just with the actual roller on the ground?

I don't know about over it, but apparently jumping will give you priority when you too have a roller. I wouldn't be surprised if the game had enough detail to put the hurt box specifically in the roller. So you could probably jump and shoot to and come out on top

 

[Joe4evr]

I've been seeing an unsettling number of narrow losses because people fail to take advantage of the easy real estate around spawn.

Well, those weren't any of my matches at least. :P I always made sure to do a quick loop around the spawn point for some quick initial points.