Squad Composition Meta

[Kayeka]

One thing that does worry me about the viability of the Charger is the Splattershot Pro. We haven't been able to actually use it ourselves, but from what they showed in the direct, it seems to be a Splattershot with better accuracy and range. While it doesn't have as much range and accuracy as the charger, nor the one-shot-kill, it could potentially poach the Charger's niche.

 

[DNE]

From a design perspective, the 3 weapon types form a triangle of sorts: Aggression, Expansion, and Fortification. Shooters are aggression. They let you meet enemies head on and push into their territory. Rollers are expansion. They can't easily encroach on enemy territory because of the range advantage and they can't easily defend for the same reason. But when they are kept safe, they can rapidly expand your total coverage. And then you have the Charger; the defensive line. They can't aggressively push because they have to stand still to fire at range and they can't expand because their fire rate is too low. But, they fortify any position better than Shooters or Rollers. You set them up properly, and any aggressive attempts by an enemy to push into your territory are stopped because of their range and kill power advantage, and because they're playing defense, they can watch the map, predict an attack, hold the shot, and just bop you on entry.

And keep in mind while fortification is defensive, it has aggressive applications. I think a key part of Splatoon may be pushing opponents off of the map; you squeeze them until you're basically at their front door, and at that point I think Chargers can just set up shop and potentially shut them out completely.

 

[FunkyLobster]

And keep in mind while fortification is defensive, it has aggressive applications. I think a key part of Splatoon may be pushing opponents off of the map; you squeeze them until you're basically at their front door, and at that point I think Chargers can just set up shop and potentially shut them out completely.

i would argue splatoon's biggest centerpiece to its meta is map control. it's all about area denial. anywhere the other team can't get to is yours, so it's important to block them off at chokepoints and keep them under pressure so that you can maintain that area. anything good at area denial is ideal. i bring this one thing up a lot, but the regular ink bombs are a great example and really capture the core of the meta: because they're 1 hit kills and have a wide blast radius, but had a big telegraphed detonation of 3 or 4 seconds. this forces players caught in that general area to:

1. unsafely advance into your territory, outside of their terms, giving you an advantage
2. tactically retreating and giving you a temporary advantage

and every dominant strategy in splatoon is like that; keeping the enemy forced to engage on your teams, leaving you with the privilege of controlling the map.

if chargers give you that advantage, then they'll probably be good weapons, but its more complicated than that

 

[Kayeka]

From a design perspective, the 3 weapon types form a triangle of sorts: Aggression, Expansion, and Fortification. Shooters are aggression. They let you meet enemies head on and push into their territory. Rollers are expansion. They can't easily encroach on enemy territory because of the range advantage and they can't easily defend for the same reason. But when they are kept safe, they can rapidly expand your total coverage. And then you have the Charger; the defensive line. They can't aggressively push because they have to stand still to fire at range and they can't expand because their fire rate is too low. But, they fortify any position better than Shooters or Rollers. You set them up properly, and any aggressive attempts by an enemy to push into your territory are stopped because of their range and kill power advantage, and because they're playing defense, they can watch the map, predict an attack, hold the shot, and just bop you on entry.

And keep in mind while fortification is defensive, it has aggressive applications. I think a key part of Splatoon may be pushing opponents off of the map; you squeeze them until you're basically at their front door, and at that point I think Chargers can just set up shop and potentially shut them out completely.

I really like this way of looking at things.

And that is, of course, only looking at the "default" weapon of a given class. The Squiffer, for example, having less range but shorter charge times, could be a Charger more suited for aggression than fortification. But, again, makes people wonder why you'd use that instead of a Splattershot.

 

[DNE]

I really like this way of looking at things.

And that is, of course, only looking at the "default" weapon of a given class. The Squiffer, for example, having less range but shorter charge times, could be a Charger more suited for aggression than fortification. But, again, makes people wonder why you'd use that instead of a Splattershot.

I think it's wrong to look at a 'less range but shorter charge' Charger as more suited for aggression. Consider it rather a form of fortification better for a specific position. Perhaps you have a high ground spot but points of entry are smaller; you still have advantage with any Charger, but since you know you'll be in a map where you'll often have that position, why not just pick something with shorter range but faster charge. And assuming the game is balanced well, they'll probably have made it so that no Charger is generally better than a Shooter for full aggression and so on for other weapon type comparisons.

 

[DNE]

if chargers give you that advantage, then they'll probably be good weapons, but its more complicated than that

Certainly more complicated, but it's always best to look at it simply and build on an idea rather than try and figure out all the little intricacies without understanding the greater whole.

With that said, as a fortifier, Chargers are the area denial weapon. They do so more safely and efficiently than any other type. And it also creates interesting team dynamics that can give you the edge over opponents; especially ones that only go Shooters for example.

For example, because they win fights that opponents initiate, it reduces the options your opponent has when pushing into lanes. This forces your opponent to commit their aggressive units either against your aggressive units, who if playing a smart aggressive push won't just drop because they show up; giving you and your roller time to progress your position. Or they commit on you, and you have the positional advantage as a charger which allows you to stall while your Shooters push farther in on their side.

These are the sort of dynamics competitive games are built on.

 

[FunkyLobster]

Certainly more complicated, but it's always best to look at it simply and build on an idea rather than try and figure out all the little intricacies without understanding the greater whole.

With that said, as a fortifier, Chargers are the area denial weapon. They do so more safely and efficiently than any other type. And it also creates interesting team dynamics that can give you the edge over opponents; especially ones that only go Shooters for example.

For example, because they win fights that opponents initiate, it reduces the options your opponent has when pushing into lanes. This forces your opponent to commit their aggressive units either against your aggressive units, who if playing a smart aggressive push won't just drop because they show up; giving you and your roller time to progress your position. Or they commit on you, and you have the positional advantage as a charger which allows you to stall while your Shooters push farther in on their side.

These are the sort of dynamics competitive games are built on.

those are all good points i've used to use to argue in favor with the charger, i'm just skeptical because of the small team sizes. i do believe it's a strong weapon and valid choice, it's just without a doubt going to have trouble competing with shooters that are applicable in every combat and ink coverage scenario that isn't across the entire map

it will probably be viable on teams specifically designed to take advantage of the charger's strengths and to compensate for its weaknesses, but i don't think most teams would want to bother and would rather just like to use the most basic and effective composition

 

[DNE]

those are all good points i've used to use to argue in favor with the charger, i'm just skeptical because of the small team sizes. i do believe it's a strong weapon and valid choice, it's just without a doubt going to have trouble competing with shooters that are applicable in every combat and ink coverage scenario that isn't across the entire map

it will probably be viable on teams specifically designed to take advantage of the charger's strengths and to compensate for its weaknesses, but i don't think most teams would want to bother and would rather just like to use the most basic and effective composition

Mh, I have a feeling with the way the maps are designed that across the map may actually be a big deal though. And I actually think they've designed Shooters pretty well such that they aren't going to be the Jack-of-All trades class that everyone will use just because it can take on everything else no problem. In other games a class like the shooter often would be able to go long range fairly easily and about as efficiently as the Charger. This doesn't seem to be the case in Splatoon though, and the ranged Shooters look like they'll still lose to Chargers in general.

We'll have to see of course, but from the looks of thinks I don't think they've botched it up.

 

[FunkyLobster]

Mh, I have a feeling with the way the maps are designed that across the map may actually be a big deal though. And I actually think they've designed Shooters pretty well such that they aren't going to be the Jack-of-All trades class that everyone will use just because it can take on everything else no problem. In other games a class like the shooter often would be able to go long range fairly easily and about as efficiently as the Charger. This doesn't seem to be the case in Splatoon though, and the ranged Shooters look like they'll still lose to Chargers in general.

We'll have to see of course, but from the looks of thinks I don't think they've botched it up.

the biggest hurdles the chargers have to overcome is the issue of the loss of mobility and coverage

in a vacuum, the chargers actually have better mobility than shooters, because with a fully charged shot you can lay down a straight path to swim up as opposed to shooting, swimming, shooting, swimming, repeat with the shooters. however, because of splatterhopping, splatdashing, and all the other undiscovered movement techs in this game, the shooters have some absurd mobility that rollers and chargers can't compete with. it creates an interesting dynamic with the roller; you can sacrifice mobility and killing power for ink coverage, which is an insanely helpful asset to your team, but a disadvantage to yourself. but the chargers give up ink coverage and mobility for killing power, which is helpful, but... just think of this

you could run with a charger and help your team by assassinating targets from afar, or you could pick a shooter and help them directly and cover more of the map in ink and get back into the fight faster. on some stages and team compositions, the charger is definitely a great choice, but in most circumstances you can just use a splattershot instead and not miss much of the benefits chargers bring to the table

my opinion of chargers have gone from competitively unviable to a certainly valid choice, but the fact is it's going to have trouble competing with other weapons

 

[DNE]

the biggest hurdles the chargers have to overcome is the issue of the loss of mobility and coverage

in a vacuum, the chargers actually have better mobility than shooters, because with a fully charged shot you can lay down a straight path to swim up as opposed to shooting, swimming, shooting, swimming, repeat with the shooters. however, because of splatterhopping, splatdashing, and all the other undiscovered movement techs in this game, the shooters have some absurd mobility that rollers and chargers can't compete with. it creates an interesting dynamic with the roller; you can sacrifice mobility and killing power for ink coverage, which is an insanely helpful asset to your team, but a disadvantage to yourself. but the chargers give up ink coverage and mobility for killing power, which is helpful, but... just think of this

you could run with a charger and help your team by assassinating targets from afar, or you could pick a shooter and help them directly and cover more of the map in ink and get back into the fight faster. on some stages and team compositions, the charger is definitely a great choice, but in most circumstances you can just use a splattershot instead and not miss much of the benefits chargers bring to the table

my opinion of chargers have gone from competitively unviable to certainly valid choice, but the fact it's going to have trouble competing with other weapons, that's for sure

I think it only has a problem competing when you match them like that. I don't think the charger should be used as a support weapon as you're suggesting. You shouldn't push against your enemy with it, you should respond to your enemy's push with it. It defends rather than directly supporting attacks. If you have shooters pushing one part of the map, the way most of them have been designed, another part is left open. The charger wins when pushed against so you own an entire section of the map single-handedly against multiple people because you just kill them as they push in before they can get in range of you. Sure you can't push to get more, but that's what your other guys elsewhere can do. Done right, a Charger will secure your advantage and allow you to push more strongly with your team's own Shooters. Don't keep the charger with the shooters, you split them to defend more of your turf while giving you more aggression elsewhere on the map because then you don't need as many people everywhere to not get out-maneuvered.

Oh and since I didn't state previously my prediction for the standard comp is 2 Shooter 1 Roller 1 Charger.

 

[Roksys]

I'd be sort of surprised if this hasn't been thought of before, but I think I've come up with a decent opening gambit for a team comprised of a roller, a charger and two shooters: the charger can set up the lane/s for the shooters off the bat so they can gain a bit more distance more quickly than they might have by themselves and makes it a bit easier for them to start splatterhopping to the center (gives them a bit of a runway, if you will), and, if applicable, the roller's lane setup should be prioritized last because he should be taking the first couple of seconds to lock down the base. I've been seeing an unsettling number of narrow losses because people fail to take advantage of the easy real estate around spawn.

 

[TheRapture]

I think people are underestimating the power of 4 Splattershots.

 

[Kayeka]

I think people are underestimating the power of 4 Splattershots.

Not really. It's just that the other two are more interesting to talk about.

The Splattershot is the workhorse that gets **** done no matter what you might throw at it, so 4 splattershots is definitely a viable idea, especially in pick-up games. You are, however, sacrificing some good opportunities for gaining a definitive upper hand by either have a roller behind your back to paint the terrain you've just secured so that you don't have to worry about it, or a Charger that can put the odds in your favour before the engagement has even properly started.

 

[TheRapture]

Not really. It's just that the other two are more interesting to talk about.

The Splattershot is the workhorse that gets **** done no matter what you might throw at it, so 4 splattershots is definitely a viable idea, especially in pick-up games. You are, however, sacrificing some good opportunities for gaining a definitive upper hand by either have a roller behind your back to paint the terrain you've just secured so that you don't have to worry about it, or a Charger that can put the odds in your favour before the engagement has even properly started.

Oh, of course. It was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Though, from what I've seen so far, the Splattershot seems to be the most efficient weapon overall. I feel like having a Charger will be worth giving up a Splattershot, but a Roller? I can see a lot of teams being successful without a single Roller. They're more of a liability than anything.

 

[DNE]

I think people are underestimating the power of 4 Splattershots.

I wouldn't say I underestimate the power, I just question the versatility of a pure splattershot squad. Splattershots are good for aggressive action, but when they make aggressive moves on a Charger who's been set up properly, you're in a situation where this one guy is safely taking out 2 or maybe even more of the enemy team because they just don't have the kill power or range. Chargers own a portion of the map by themselves, and if a team can't breach the position without a hard commit, suddenly your team's own shooters can push elsewhere and really put the enemy on the back foot; do they stop the shooters from fast pushing, or the Charger from locking down vital amounts of land. Meanwhile Rollers give you faster expansion time, which means when your team pushes, they can quickly lockdown the portion of the map they push through and any large zones that has been locked from the enemy team because of it, which means your team can more rapidly push. I feel that the games meta will revolve around creating a comp that balances Aggression, Expansion, and Fortification, and 4 shooters only focuses on Aggression. The roller is the comeback mechanic, as well as a catalyst that allows your Shooters to push more aggressively. I do agree with you though that not having a roller isn't the end of the world. But having something that speeds up how aggressive you can be and potentially gives you an edge in coverage speed to opponents that don't use roller could be a game changer.

 

[Diableos]

I think people are underestimating the power of 4 Splattershots.

I somewhat agree. I find a team of 4 Splattershots/Splattershot Jrs much more intimidating than 4 Rollers or Splat Chargers, mainly because the Splattershots are far more versatile with combat, ink coverage and movement. They're the middle ground. Plus, the Splattershot Jr had that shield in the demo and that thing was so incredibly satisfying. With that said, a well-balanced team is obviously going to be the most intimidating every time.

Part of me thinks the main reason why people seem to be underestimating the Splattershots is because, as Kayeka said, the others are more interesting to talk about, and the Splattershots seem to be the 'standard' weapon and there's not really much to say about them.

 

[TheRapture]

I wouldn't say I underestimate the power, I just question the versatility of a pure splattershot squad. Splattershots are good for aggressive action, but when they make aggressive moves on a Charger who's been set up properly, you're in a situation where this one guy is safely taking out 2 or maybe even more of the enemy team because they just don't have the kill power or range. Chargers own a portion of the map by themselves, and if a team can't breach the position without a hard commit, suddenly your team's own shooters can push elsewhere and really put the enemy on the back foot; do they stop the shooters from fast pushing, or the Charger from locking down vital amounts of land. Meanwhile Rollers give you faster expansion time, which means when your team pushes, they can quickly lockdown the portion of the map they push through and any large zones that has been locked from the enemy team because of it, which means your team can more rapidly push. I feel that the games meta will revolve around creating a comp that balances Aggression, Expansion, and Fortification, and 4 shooters only focuses on Aggression. The roller is the comeback mechanic, as well as a catalyst that allows your Shooters to push more aggressively. I do agree with you though that not having a roller isn't the end of the world. But having something that speeds up how aggressive you can be and potentially gives you an edge in coverage speed to opponents that don't use roller could be a game changer.

The charger isn't really fool-proof nor does it necessarily guarantee map control. The charger doesn't really facilitate fast moment because you can't just no-scope people out of nowhere. The Splattershot affords much more flexibility because there's no charge. You can easily dodge Charger shots and get in on them, and once a Splattershot is CQC against a Charger, it's GG. Actually, it's pretty GG for anything that's not a Splattershot or Splat Jr.

Rollers just seem so weak. Because the game counts what paint is left when the game ends, all you have to do is kill them towards the end of the round. They're all scrambling to put more paint down. Mop them up and take the map in last few seconds while they're respawning.

The Splattershots are undeniably the most versatile weapons in the game. I feel like most successful teams will have at least 2-3 of them before even implementing a Charger or Roller.

 

[Kayeka]

Oh, of course. It was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Though, from what I've seen so far, the Splattershot seems to be the most efficient weapon overall. I feel like having a Charger will be worth giving up a Splattershot, but a Roller? I can see a lot of teams being successful without a single Roller. They're more of a liability than anything.

You know what? I'm giving you a like not being part of the "Rollers are OP" crowd. While I don't agree that rollers are a liability, they are definitely not as godlike as some people might say.

 

[Setu]

The charger isn't really fool-proof nor does it necessarily guarantee map control. The charger doesn't really facilitate fast moment because you can't just no-scope people out of nowhere. The Splattershot affords much more flexibility because there's no charge. You can easily dodge Charger shots and get in on them, and once a Splattershot is CQC against a Charger, it's GG. Actually, it's pretty GG for anything that's not a Splattershot or Splat Jr.

Rollers just seem so weak. Because the game counts what paint is left when the game ends, all you have to do is kill them towards the end of the round. They're all scrambling to put more paint down. Mop them up and take the map in last few seconds while they're respawning.

The Splattershots are undeniably the most versatile weapons in the game. I feel like most successful teams will have at least 2-3 of them before even implementing a Charger or Roller.

This is why during the whole demo I was thinking there should be a "defend the roller" strategy that would work great, but only if you make sure the splattershots are doing some ground work as well. From the demo, the charger didn't seem useful at all whatsoever since it was almost impossible to get a hit on someone while they were in squid mode, however, I noticed that since you can't swim in enemy ink, it could be useful for revealing enemies in straightaways. As long as the enemy is revealed, it's an easy kill for a charger. Also we can't judge all rollers as being one thing and all chargers as one thing, etc since the dynamo roller will have many different uses than the regular roller we all played with. 2 Rollers and 2 splattershots has the highest potential on the stages that we played while in TW. I feel like 2 Rollers, 1 splattershot, and 1 charger may work well on a number of other stages however.

 

[DNE]

The charger isn't really fool-proof nor does it necessarily guarantee map control. The charger doesn't really facilitate fast moment because you can't just no-scope people out of nowhere. The Splattershot affords much more flexibility because there's no charge. You can easily dodge Charger shots and get in on them, and once a Splattershot is CQC against a Charger, it's GG. Actually, it's pretty GG for anything that's not a Splattershot or Splat Jr.

Rollers just seem so weak. Because the game counts what paint is left when the game ends, all you have to do is kill them towards the end of the round. They're all scrambling to put more paint down. Mop them up and take the map in last few seconds while they're respawning.

The Splattershots are undeniably the most versatile weapons in the game. I feel like most successful teams will have at least 2-3 of them before even implementing a Charger or Roller.

The charger isn't fool-proof but it has major advantages when it comes to ensuring map control as efficiently as possible. In a situation where you're charge shotting, you'll have set up in a location where you're watching entry points. Each map has a couple of these in regards to major zone objectives within a turf war and because you have ink control at these points, your opponent can't rapidly enter in such a way that it will be hard to hit them. Shooters can't push on them because ink is between them and the Charger, and sneaky movements can be noticed on the minimap.

The roller helps your expansion (and when the enemy pushes and you repel them, they can quickly close up holes in your ink defenses. Say at the start of the round 1 team has one roller and the other doesn't. The roller expands at the beginning past the midline of the map because it's faster than the shooters or chargers the enemy may have. Immediately your opponent is on the back foot, and a charger can potentially setup and just keep that advantage going. I don't think you should rely on coming back at the end of the game; rather you should push your opponent off early and snowball your advantage.

With that said, you definitely still need Shooters; a game can't be won off defense alone. You still need to be able to throw the punches. Which is why I think the standard team is 2 Shooter, 1 Roller, 1 Charger.