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Switch gyro has considerably more latency than Wii U

Discussion in 'Regular Discussion' started by knubie, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. knubie

    knubie Inkling

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    As I was playing Breath of the Wild on my Switch, I noticed right away the first time I got a bow that the motion input felt a bit laggy (similar to how Wii felt back in the day). I've put a lot of hours into Splatoon on my Wii U (which is very responsive) so it was pretty noticeable to me right away.

    One of the first things that blew me away about the Wii U gamepad was when I booted up Nintendoland and noticed just how accurate and responsive the motion controls were in that game. I hadn't experienced anything like it, and I believe it's one of the reasons Splatoon felt so good.

    I did some research into the Wii U gamepad's tech back then and found the key element it had that was missing in every other controller that features motion inputs was something called a "magnetometer" which offers so-called "nine-axis" controls. From this [article](http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/wii_u_gamepad_offers_nine_axis_controls):

    > Becky Oh, chief executive of PNI Sensor Corporation, the company behind the GamePad’s geomagnetic sensor, has spoken in an interview with GamesBeat about how the technology improves the accuracy and reliability of the GamePad.


    > "[The gyro and accelerometer] are good at tracking relativistic change. But it doesn’t tell you absolutely where you’re pointing and where the pointer is. What the magnetic sensor does is use the Earth’s magnetic field as a reference. It can always guide [the GamePad] back to what the absolute position is."


    > Oh believes the new geomagnetic technology will allow the failings of six-axis devices — such as the Wii Remote — to be eradicated, saying she thinks several genres of games can now be played much more responsively.


    > "I think games such as first-person shooters, driving games, or some type of flying game would be a good candidate for this type of technology. Sony’s Sharpshooter [Move peripheral] did something like this, but when we played with it we saw it was not accurately tracking. There was both latency and inaccuracy. In that case, hardcore gamers would go back to using a joystick or game controllers, but if you had a very accurate way — with no latency or very little latency — to use the gun to point what you’re shooting. I think that does change the way the game is played."

    I did some research and I could not find any information regarding whether the switch has a geomagnetic sensor like in the Wii U gamepad, and after comparing bow aiming in BOTW with Splatoon and Nintendoland on Wii U, the difference is absolutely noticeable.

    People who don't like gyro aiming won't care either way, but I'm afraid the exclusion of such a feature will completely ruin games like Splatoon. I could have lived with this if it was limited to the Joycons, but it doesn't even look like the pro control has this feature either. I'm hoping this is just some odd way the developers have implemented gyro aiming in BOTW and it will be more responsive in Splatoon, but I don't think that's the case.

    Does anyone have a copy of BOTW for both Switch and Wii U that can compare?
     
    Sqwiddles, GamerJed and Power like this.
  2. SweetBippy

    SweetBippy Senior Squid

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    I do sometimes have issues aiming the bow in BotW, but usually have no problems with aiming the magnet or statis power. I can't remember what else I was doing the other day, but I remember thinking that the gyro felt pretty alright with whatever it was. For the record, I am using a pro controller as well.

    It will be interesting to see how it feels during the demo next week!
     
  3. Maave

    Maave Inkling Cadet

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    I think this is just the devs intentionally nerfing the motion for people who don't normally use motion controls. The motion controlled puzzles are much more sensitive than the bow. It seems like the motion for the bow and camera and whatnot were "smoothed" to avoid jitter. I also noticed there is a minimum threshold for movement or else the camera won't move. If you try to move really slowly it doesn't work. So I think it's a nerf for people who don't use motion normally. None of the people playing the Splat 2 demo (like ThatSRB2Dude) noticed laggy controls, they said it feels just like Splat 1
     
  4. RespawningJesus

    RespawningJesus I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar.
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    I have had no problems with the bow in BotW. I aim with the right analog stick, and then make adjustments with the gyro, which is what I imagine is how it will work in Splatoon 2.
     
  5. Ikaheishi

    Ikaheishi Inkling Commander

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    I played the Splatoon 2 demo version about a week and a half ago at a special event Nintendo put on and I didn't notice anything wrong with the gyro controls. It felt just like playing Splatoon itself on the Wii U… Actually a little smoother than Splatoon. The only thing I had a problem with motion-controls wise was that the sensitivity was set lower than I'm used to.

    I'd also like to note that I have the Wii U version of Breath of the Wild and I've noticed (and have died a few times because of) some latency with motion controls in the game. The motion controls in BotW just aren't as smooth or precise as Splatoon, which is a bit disappointing.
     
    Warchamp7 likes this.
  6. spoxbox

    spoxbox Full Squid

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    tbh this thread scared me a bit with the first post but it seems i can rest easy
     
    Sqwiddles, SweetBippy and Magic8Ball like this.
  7. Award

    Award Lord of the Squids

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    The gyro and accelerometer are actually higher resolution than that in the gamepad, so it should actually be capable of GREATER accuracy and smaller movement. The bow is definitely set to very low resolution by design, however controlling it with separate joycons and using the right one alone for motion aiming is terrific. The motion puzzles (roll the ball into the hole) in shrines however show off how VERY finely accurate the motion controls can be. Now that I think about it, the aiming feels similar to Twilight Princess HD bow aiming on WiiU. I'm guessing Zelda always uses the same aiming code since Ocarina 3D.
     
  8. Cyan

    Cyan Pro Squid

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    Not sure if BOTW is a fair game to compare to Splatoon, because I'm pretty sure BOTW runs at 900p30 when docked (and 720p30 undocked/Wii U). The fact that the framerate is half that of Splatoon (which definitely runs at 60FPS) would alone be enough to mess with the fluidity and precise aiming you get with motion. I played the Splatoon 2 Demo about 2 weeks ago in London, and the game felt just as good as Splatoon 1 for aiming, I would even say it felt more responsive and more sensitive than 1 ever did (I always use -1 in Splatoon though, never really messed with the sensitivity). There shouldn't be anything to worry about, and the devs wouldn't nerf motion controls to make stick more viable, because deliberately making poorer controls for a game would end in a huge outcry from fans and make the game bad when it shouldn't be. You do have the Testfire in 9 days' time, so you have 6 hours worth of sessions to mess with the game and compare to Splatoon 1 but I felt no real difference or degrade in quality from 1 with motion (except for the Joycon Grip being awkward with the shoulder buttons).
     
  9. knubie

    knubie Inkling

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    I actually find the motion puzzles even less responsive than the bow aim, which leads me to think that it must have been intentional. ThatSRB2Dude did actually mention that there was "a bit of input lag" but that he was still able to aim accurately. Whether or not the input lag he experienced is as noticeable as it is in BOTW remains to be seen. I hope it's not.

    Do you have a source you can link to about the gyro/accelermeter being higher resolution? I'd be interested to look at the details on the chip that's acutally in use (couldn't find any details on ifixit). The main issue I've experienced, however, is not lack of granularity, but a noticeable ~100ms input lag.

    The 30fps would only add, at most, an additional 16ms of latency which would be hardly noticeable I think. The latency that I've noticed is closer to 100ms or more.

    And to be clear, I'm not saying I've experienced a lack of accuracy with the motion controls, but there is a noticeable 100-200ms latency. Which is a HUGE amount of input lag for a competitive game like Splatoon.
     
  10. knubie

    knubie Inkling

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    Looks like the joycons (and presumably the pro controller) use a STMicroelectronics SH641 according to this article at techinsights, which "has a full-scale acceleration range of ±2/±4/±8/±16 g and an angular rate range of ±125/±245/±500/±1000/±2000 dps."

    Compare that to the Invensense MPU-6500 on the HTC Vive controllers and the accuracy looks identical (however the vive has the benefit of external sensors).

    I still don't know what this means for the Switch in terms of latency of motion control input.
     
  11. blu

    blu Inkling Cadet

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    I have heard that the latency might be due to wifi issues in the Switch, so I would check your wifi connectivity to see if its strong enough, or if its disconnecting during gameplay. If its a single player game try airplane mode to see if the gyro controls are smoother.
     
  12. knubie

    knubie Inkling

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    So Tomorrow Corp just released a few games for the Switch, and some of them use the gyro in the joycon as a cursor. Someone recorded a demo of the cursor in action here:



    If you download the video and run it frame by frame you can see that there is about a 3 frame delay between when he moves the joycon, and when the cursor moves. Since the video is running at ~30 frames per second, that translates to a ~100ms delay, which is exactly what I predicted the latency to be in BOTW.

    Now this latency may be attributed to "smoothing" where the software samples the position across 2-3 frames in order to make the cursor appear less jittery. Hopefully this is the case, and the smoothing is removed in Splatoon, otherwise it does not bode well for the game.
     
    #12 knubie, Mar 16, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  13. Astral

    Astral Astral Finish!

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    1ms monitor meta
     

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