What is getting nerfed next update

[Catloafman]

I really hope pencil gets nerfed but is still the best charger in the game I love pencil as a weapon its so much more interesting then your standard boring Charger or E liter to fight and to use
Like if pencil dies ballpoint isn't taking its place or heavy most likely Z+F will rise and I really dont want that to happen

 

[OnePotWonder]

Y’all act like Snipewriter as a main weapon is a problem when really it’s just the 5H kit. Pencil 5B is fine and shouldn’t have to suffer in tandem with the Cooler kit.
Personally, I’d prefer Snipewriter being meta over either of the other long-range chargers.

The problem with Pencil is its overbearing paint, so just tone it back a bit (and make the 5H kit 220p) and the weapon is fine.

Also, QuagSass, a point against your argument that Snipewriter is just a better splatling; Pencil is far worse at close combat than even Hydra. It has close to zero defensive abilities.

 

[Catloafman]

Y’all act like Snipewriter as a main weapon is a problem when really it’s just the 5H kit. Pencil 5B is fine and shouldn’t have to suffer in tandem.
Personally, I’d prefer Snipewriter being meta over either of the other long-range chargers.

The problem with Pencil is it’s overbearing paint, so just tone it back a bit (and make the 5H kit 220p) and the weapon is fine.

Also, QuagSass, a point against your argument that Snipewriter is just a better splatling; Pencil is far worse at close combat than even Hydra. It has close to zero defensive abilities.

EXACTLY

 

[McSquid82]

What do you mean? Not good for the overall health of the game, or just not good for Pencil mains? A lot of weapons aren't good in this game, something has to be low tier, and after how long Pencil's reign of terror has been, I'm actually fine with never seeing it in the meta again.

Remember Dynamo or Luna Blaster for that matter from S1? They both got nuked at the start of S2, and I'm more than willing to bet it was comments just like these that they got gutted like they did. If you want another example, look at how badly the Aerospray got its painting ability, the one thing it's actually good at mind you, completely crippled. Now do you see what I'm saying? Because those level of nerfs are how you kill a weapon, and send them straight to garbage tier. Yes, Pencil does indeed need to be toned back by a bit. But not fired into the sun like it seems some people here want. Also, all of the aforementioned weapons had to be eventually buffed to even be usable again like they are now.

 

[isaac4]

I do still think it's completely fair to nerf Pencils range.
It should not be around the same as a Splatterscope, especially in a game where a lot of the maps don't give you a way to push in without being watched by a backline.
The map design and range of the weapon is what lets it stay back to poke, paint, and farm for Cooler without having to worry too much about dying.

 

[isaac4]

Another thing I should have mentioned is that the main weapon itself is still a problem for backline diversity.
Hydra being able to defend itself better when getting rushed isn't enough to make up for a Pencil being able to just easily move it out of the positions it wants to play at.
I'm not an expert on backline weapons but despite splatlings having a history of struggling against chargers they still had the advantage of being able to paint better and keep up pressure for longer, which are now traits they share with Pencil.
As I've already said before, the only main weapon nerfs Pencil needs is to its range and paint but I still understand why QuagSass feels this strongly about it.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Chargers' dominant range will always be a point of contention for balancing the game. The counter to chargers is probably supposed to be brushes, and the brush class doesn't exactly have the best history with regards to meta. Maybe we'll see a few Inkbrush comps after its recent buff. If Recycled Brella was good it could probably work too, what with its speedy shield regeneration.
My point being yeah Pencil should probably get a range nerf. What weapon is supposed to be able to deal with it? On these stages?

 

[McSquid82]

I think they could buff some of the counters to chargers and also partially revert some of the nerfs to Ballpoint. A pen to counter a pencil sounds pretty appropriate. In addition, they could slightly buff something like the explosher. Not by too much, but it's extremely good at countering chargers in elevated positions. I was able to pick off a camping RP E-Liter with one in a ranked SZ match and it not only saved the match for us but was also able to get us the KO.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I think they could buff some of the counters to chargers and also partially revert some of the nerfs to Ballpoint. A pen to counter a pencil sounds pretty appropriate. In addition, they could slightly buff something like the explosher. Not by too much, but it's extremely good at countering chargers in elevated positions. I was able to pick off a camping RP E-Liter with one in a ranked SZ match and it not only saved the match for us but was also able to get us the KO.

Honestly the Ballpoint accuracy nerf was kind of ridiculous in the first place. I feel like it could be reverse-engineered to give the weapon perfect accuracy in its long range mode and the weapon would be in a better spot. Any accuracy nerf is ridiculous, really. If they wanted to make its long range mode weaker, its damage is a much easier target. The short range mode already does 2 less damage than the long range.
I'd argue the same case for reverting N-ZAP's damage buffs over its accuracy buffs (once Pencil gets over-nerfed and it becomes the new exceedingly dominant Cooler weapon).

 

[briank913]

I really would love to see bomb spam be made impossible. The devs don't necessarily have to make bombs more expensive (though it might help), but at least increase the time before the ink recovers from a bomb to the point where bomb spamming is close to impossible. Nerf Autobomb, Splat Bomb, and Torpedo in this manner in particular.

 

[missingno]

Remember Dynamo or Luna Blaster for that matter from S1? They both got nuked at the start of S2, and I'm more than willing to bet it was comments just like these that they got gutted like they did. If you want another example, look at how badly the Aerospray got its painting ability, the one thing it's actually good at mind you, completely crippled. Now do you see what I'm saying? Because those level of nerfs are how you kill a weapon, and send them straight to garbage tier. Yes, Pencil does indeed need to be toned back by a bit. But not fired into the sun like it seems some people here want. Also, all of the aforementioned weapons had to be eventually buffed to even be usable again like they are now.

Those are examples of nerfs that were bad for one weapon, but were they bad for the overall health of the meta? The point I was making is that I'm more concerned with the big picture than any one individual weapon, because 65 main weapons can't all be top tier. Something is going to be low tier, and I'd rather prioritize having a game where the top tiers are fun to play both as and against than one where they aren't. If Pencil gets nerfed to a point where it stops getting played entirely... I'm okay with that outcome. Firing it into the sun is preferable to me than keeping it where it is. Nothing of value will be lost.

S1 Dynamo was supremely unhealthy, shooting it was correct. Maybe they overnerfed it, but we're better off having it where it is now than where it was in S1.
Aerospray is a weapon that I firmly believe shouldn't ever be allowed to be meta. Nintendo has openly said in past patch notes that they aimed to curtail playstyles of just farming special and doing nothing else, which conveniently happens to describe Aerospray. It's a weapon that was never designed to do anything else, and that's ultimately boring as hell.
Luna... idk, no opinion.

How about for an example of when shooting something dead was a net positive, consider Missiles. They were nerfed to the point where no one plays them now, and I sincerely think that was correct to do. Raise your hand if you would want Missiles buffed back into relevance. Anyone?

A pen to counter a pencil sounds pretty appropriate.

But Chargers counter Splatlings? Even with BP's nerf reverted, Pencil still wins the head-to-head matchup.

 

[McSquid82]

Those are examples of nerfs that were bad for one weapon, but were they bad for the overall health of the meta? The point I was making is that I'm more concerned with the big picture than any one individual weapon, because 65 main weapons can't all be top tier. Something is going to be low tier, and I'd rather prioritize having a game where the top tiers are fun to play both as and against than one where they aren't. If Pencil gets nerfed to a point where it stops getting played entirely... I'm okay with that outcome. Firing it into the sun is preferable to me than keeping it where it is. Nothing of value will be lost.

S1 Dynamo was supremely unhealthy, shooting it was correct. Maybe they overnerfed it, but we're better off having it where it is now than where it was in S1.
Aerospray is a weapon that I firmly believe shouldn't ever be allowed to be meta. Nintendo has openly said in past patch notes that they aimed to curtail playstyles of just farming special and doing nothing else, which conveniently happens to describe Aerospray. It's a weapon that was never designed to do anything else, and that's ultimately boring as hell.
Luna... idk, no opinion.

How about for an example of when shooting something dead was a net positive, consider Missiles. They were nerfed to the point where no one plays them now, and I sincerely think that was correct to do. Raise your hand if you would want Missiles buffed back into relevance. Anyone?

But Chargers counter Splatlings? Even with BP's nerf reverted, Pencil still wins the head-to-head matchup.

The thing is, they're backing off on these nerfs. Dynamo is back to its old self if not even better. Pretty much every painting nerf Aerospray has gotten from the last game is gone. Not only that, but good Aerospray users do more than just sit back and farm special. I play it quite aggresively and try to go in for the splats. Yes you have a lot of them with a ton of special charge up but that's more of the ability's fault than the weapon's fault. My whole point is, its job is to paint and do it well. The fact that it's good at getting specials is more of a bonus than anything.

 

[vitellary]

i think the more obvious counterpoint is splash in this game, which was even more dominant than anything mentioned previously, but got slowly nerfed until it was still viable, but not "is 3 out of the 4 weapons on a team" good. this has been nearly unanimously praised as a very good choice by nintendo; the argument of "sniperwiter's been good for so long it's fine if it never gets used again" clearly doesn't hold up when the changes to splash have been so well received, even if people complained while it was strong. snipewriter should still be viable, but should have more extreme strengths and weaknesses; right now, it's pretty much all strengths, with no particular thing it's bad at

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

i think the more obvious counterpoint is splash in this game, which was even more dominant than anything mentioned previously, but got slowly nerfed until it was still viable, but not "is 3 out of the 4 weapons on a team" good. this has been nearly unanimously praised as a very good choice by nintendo; the argument of "sniperwiter's been good for so long it's fine if it never gets used again" clearly doesn't hold up when the changes to splash have been so well received, even if people complained while it was strong. snipewriter should still be viable, but should have more extreme strengths and weaknesses; right now, it's pretty much all strengths, with no particular thing it's bad at

I wholeheartedly agree with this but I also think (as a former pencil main) that having pencil be not in the game would be better than what it currently is, even if it's by no means the best solution.

 

[McSquid82]

I wholeheartedly agree with this but I also think (as a former pencil main) that having pencil be not in the game would be better than what it currently is, even if it's by no means the best solution.

That's just too extreme a take for me to agree with, but I'm not going to argue with it further. The reality is, Snipewriter is in the game and it's not going away. It fills a unique niche for a charger, and it just needs toned back. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[missingno]

the argument of "sniperwiter's been good for so long it's fine if it never gets used again" clearly doesn't hold up when the changes to splash have been so well received, even if people complained while it was strong.

Perhaps I should've phrased this better, the problem with Pencil isn't merely that it's been top tier for a while, it's that I consider it to be a very unhealthy top tier. I think that there's a real distinction to be drawn between a healthy top tier and an unhealthy one. Pencil invalidates nearly every other backline weapon, and quite a lot of players detest dealing with it in ways that weren't said about Splash. I genuinely think it's toxic for the game, and I would prefer a meta without it.

 

[vitellary]

Perhaps I should've phrased this better, the problem with Pencil isn't merely that it's been top tier for a while, it's that I consider it to be a very unhealthy top tier. I think that there's a real distinction to be drawn between a healthy top tier and an unhealthy one. Pencil invalidates nearly every other backline weapon, and quite a lot of players detest dealing with it in ways that weren't said about Splash. I genuinely think it's toxic for the game, and I would prefer a meta without it.

that's fair, but i think that this is largely a fixable problem. like i said, snipewriter pretty much has no distinct weaknesses right now, and that is certainly why it feels so bad, but i think a properly balanced snipewriter (one that actually struggles into other backlines rather than dominating them) would be a very fun weapon to have in splatoon. providing valuable chip damage to your teammates is a cool role for a backline to have, and can be fun to play off of as a front/midline, but it needs to have more noticeable drawbacks. really, i think paint simply should not be a strength of it in any way; it should have to primarily focus on its damage, which is the part of the weapon that feels fun

while it's true to say that splash itself probably never faced the brunt of the community's criticism, i do think it's fair to draw comparisons between how people felt about crab then and how people feel about the pencil now. i'm definitely confident there were a ton of people saying that a game without crab as a special would be a better game, but in the long run i think that's been proven false, since they gave it proper weaknesses that it didn't really have before. ultimately, i would personally prefer a world where snipewriter serves a unique and healthy role as a backline, over a world where it doesn't exist at all. i think that this is very possible if they balance it in the right way, and i think, given enough time, nintendo can do it

i wouldn't even necessarily complain if pencil got nerfed so hard that people stop picking it; my own weapon pool would benefit greatly from it. i just prefer to think about how it could be salvaged in a way that makes it feel better than it does now, both to play and to play against, since i think there is potential for a good weapon here if they just change it in the right ways

 

[OnePotWonder]

Pencil is a well designed weapon that suffers from being able to passively paint for special far too easily. The weapon’s offensive capabilities are nearly perfectly balanced (why does it do 68 damage and not 65 it does not need to combo with weapons like Naut and Jet), and a paint nerf coupled with a slight range nerf (and 220p Cooler) should put it in a spot where it’s at about the same power level as the other backline chargers.

Knowing Nintendo, however, the weapon is probably just going to get a damage nerf against Big Bubbler and no other changes.

 

[C-53]

Certainly not pencil. Nerfing that would break the secret concordat, and then what? Fun? Psh.

 

[QuagSass]

Ha, should not be posting pencil thoughts late at night. So much to read through now, lol.

I guess I should quickly summarise my overall thoughts on pencil.

I think the main is pretty neat conceptually. A chip damage backline that's a line of sight weapon and not an AOE weapon like explo is really cool. I like how it rounds out the variety of backlines in the game. The execution however is horrid, this thing should NOT have the paint it has.
Ideally any nerfs to it would keep that identity. If it's still good after, great! If not, good riddance.
I don't actually truly hate pencil. But I do hate what it has become.
A lot of the pencil hateposts I put here is mostly a joke though. I just like blowing my hate out of proportion. Overexaggerating and what not.

Maybe I should post a more objective thread on pencil later. That could be fun