Which specials should be left behind in Splatoon 3?

[DzNutsKong]

The blast radius. 80 damage for just being in a circle is wild. And where did slowing it down come in? 3 jumps around a player(there's a lethal inside ring too) would make it very, very annoying. You could traverse the map easily and it would practically be safer zipcaster. Changing height would just be a bad idea because you would be able to jump safely into the enemy base or backlines with invincibility most of the time.

From here on out I'm not going to follow up on this side of the conversation much, if at all, because it's starting to derail the thread.

I quite literally say the words "even if it'd still need tweaks" in my post. I know the special would have a horrible imbalance from how competitive vs casual players would manage it if it were just directly plopped in like that. Otherwise, I should not need to go into absolute perfect detail about every single idea I present in a thread where I'll need to touch on 19 specials and will have less to say about some than others. The one thing I should've clarified was that I meant this would be a rework of regular Splashdown, not Triple. That much is my bad.

If you're implying that you think this idea could never work then that's an extremely dismissive way of looking at game design. All of this idea's parts are very similar to a lot of other specials that are already in Splatoon 3, and there are plenty of things you could adjust here (the amount you can move between jumps, the time it takes to attack, the explosion radius, vulnerability etc.). The Zipcaster comparison isn't apt at all either because a major strength Zipcaster has that this would lack is the powerful ability to immediately get behind entire teams and begin hitting at them from there.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on my Splashdown rework idea

So if I'm understanding correctly the user basically jumps much higher and has invincibility and a little bit of maneuvering? If so then my fear is that this would even further push it into being a panic button which isn't ideal but it would ultimately fix the biggest problem Splashdown has had.

 

[C-53]

REMOVE: Kraken Royle. Invulnerability is boring. Most use cases for this are cheese. The only serious weakness is end-lag, which is true of like five other specials that also have other weaknesses.

KEEP: Killer Wail 5.1. This is not particularly dangerous or powerful, even when spammed, but is a reliable source of disruption/displacement that can be used to affect zone-control and tempo, which are cornerstones of Splatoon’s core identity. It has a wide range of use-cases, many of which are fun and helpful, and none of them are game-breaking. It is one of the best counters to multiple other specials that otherwise have limited or situational-only counterplay (crab, vac, booyah).

 

[Arigato!]

From here on out I'm not going to follow up on this side of the conversation much, if at all, because it's starting to derail the thread.

I quite literally say the words "even if it'd still need tweaks" in my post. I know the special would have a horrible imbalance from how competitive vs casual players would manage it if it were just directly plopped in like that. Otherwise, I should not need to go into absolute perfect detail about every single idea I present in a thread where I'll need to touch on 19 specials and will have less to say about some than others. The one thing I should've clarified was that I meant this would be a rework of regular Splashdown, not Triple. That much is my bad.

If you're implying that you think this idea could never work then that's an extremely dismissive way of looking at game design. All of this idea's parts are very similar to a lot of other specials that are already in Splatoon 3, and there are plenty of things you could adjust here (the amount you can move between jumps, the time it takes to attack, the explosion radius, vulnerability etc.). The Zipcaster comparison isn't apt at all either because a major strength Zipcaster has that this would lack is the powerful ability to immediately get behind entire teams and begin hitting at them from there.

So if I'm understanding correctly the user basically jumps much higher and has invincibility and a little bit of maneuvering? If so then my fear is that this would even further push it into being a panic button which isn't ideal but it would ultimately fix the biggest problem Splashdown has had.

Well, people are allowed to have opinions and such. Our views for the game are probably VERY different. :) Although I think OnePotWonder's idea would be a healthy option.

 

[OnePotWonder]

So if I'm understanding correctly the user basically jumps much higher and has invincibility and a little bit of maneuvering? If so then my fear is that this would even further push it into being a panic button which isn't ideal but it would ultimately fix the biggest problem Splashdown has had.

Yep, pretty much. A key difference is that you do actually super jump into the air, meaning you have to go through a super jump's typical startup time. That should prevent it from being too panic-buttony. I'm wondering if Special Power Up reducing the startup would be a bad idea.

 

[Arigato!]

Yep, pretty much. A key difference is that you do actually super jump into the air, meaning you have to go through a super jump's typical startup time. That should prevent it from being too panic-buttony. I'm wondering if Special Power Up reducing the startup would be a bad idea.

Maybe SPU would just increas the radius like other splashdowns. But I feel like if I saw a squid super jump with his special full, I would have a lot of time to get out of there lol.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Maybe SPU would just increas the radius like other splashdowns. But I feel like if I saw a squid super jump with his special full, I would have a lot of time to get out of there lol.

True. But the speed at which the user aims the splashdown is a variable I have not yet fixed in place. I’d probably make it a bit faster than swimming, but add a delay before actually crashing down. That and you could also just shoot the squid, since they are still vulnerable.

 

[Picle]

I've been thinking about this topic for the past few months now and despite not having a lot of good options for certain specials like Inkjet or Kraken, we know that the devs could remove any special they want for the next game.
We have no idea what the direction of Splatoon 4 will be but I still think it's interesting to talk about which specials we would personally want gone.
I also don't think Splatoon needs a lot of specials, we don't even get 3rd kits for every weapon to give us the chance to see more kit combinations (we don't even know if we'll get 3rd kits in Splatoon 3 at all).

Personally, my choices would be Reefslider, Tenta Missiles, Ultra Stamp, and Triple Inkstrike.

• Reefslider is doomed to be a panic button that just gets you killed most of the time and it's also completely outclassed by TSD being in the game. While they're not exactly the same since Slider moves forward it doesn't change the fact that TSD is actually able to do what the devs seem to have wanted for Slider, an aggro special that you use to get kills with. They've also continued to buff Reefslider in some of the worst ways by giving it a bigger explosion radius and increasing the invincibility frames for when the special starts and ends but never addressing the real issues that it has. I don't trust it'd be any different if given the chance to return.
• I don't think I have to explain Tenta Missiles. Their use as a global range special is already enough of a reason to not bring it back.
• Ultra Stamp is there for a similar reason as Slider but I actually like the concept of the special. Too bad it's been in the same position in two games as an okay special you can't reliably use for what it's supposed to do. Especially when you're dealing with shooters which are going to be extremely common. I just don't have any hope in the special actually being buffed in a way that matters. They even nerfed it early on in Splatoon 3 which is very confusing but makes me think that they're not giving the special any significant buffs because Stamp is stronger against more casual players. Either way, I hope I'm wrong and they do end up making it good before patches end or at least in Splatoon 4 if they do bring it back.
• Lastly, I just don't like Tri-Strike. I find the special VERY boring to use. The only other special I dislike using more than Strikes is Slider so that probably says a lot for how I feel about it. There could be so many other ways to achieve a similar concept with a whole new special that doesn't feel as basic and simple to use. Not much more I have to say about it besides the fact that I don't like how easily it can help get control of zone when used properly.

Edit: I went back to make my points easier to read through.

a couple specials I'd like to see gone in the next game

Big Bubbler: it's a cool idea on paper, but in practice, doesn't really work balance/design wise. I'll just say it, this special will never be good without also being unhealthy for the game. buff it and it becomes unhealthy. Nerf it, and it becomes useless, It's better off staying in S3

Tenta Missiles: idc what nerfs it got, THIS SPECIAL NEEDS TO GO!!!! it was a bad idea to bring this special back from the start. global range special that targets the entire team, locates them, and forces the entire team to move, without much work or skill needed, it feels so free. Nintendo should never do global range specials

killer wail 5.1: similar story to tenta missiles, global range specials is a bad design choice, it's not fun to fight against, and can easily be unhealthy if it was a good special

reefslider: not powerful, linear, no depth. Only thing it's good for is zones cheese, which isn't a good thing AT ALL

honorable mention.
splattercolor screen: in its current state, it's pretty bad due to blocking your teammates' sight of line with it + controversy with it hurting people with disabilities. Rework it so that the screen muffles your audio instead of crackling could help

 

[lesbianseagull]

Mainly the dumb autokill specials like Triple Splashdown & Reefslider. I'm surprised that crap is still around in Splatoon 3 since the devs have been cleaning up their act (for the most part). Trizooka should either be removed or somehow retooled into something that's weak in close range & strong at long range because its good to have specials that counter backliners.

 

[Arigato!]

Mainly the dumb autokill specials like Triple Splashdown & Reefslider. I'm surprised that crap is still around in Splatoon 3 since the devs have been cleaning up their act (for the most part). Trizooka should either be removed or somehow retooled into something that's weak in close range & strong at long range because its good to have specials that counter backliners.

Triple Inkstrike is boring and I think it needs to go, but I thought it was easy to dodge unless you are severely occupied?

 

[lesbianseagull]

Triple Inkstrike is boring and I think it needs to go, but I thought it was easy to dodge unless you are severely occupied?

I think Triple Inkstrike as well as Booyah Bomb should stay precisely because they don't kill you unless you're severely occupied or distracted. In that sense, they are balanced. They actually require you to think about how to get the most out of them. They can't simply be used to autokill someone. I might be a minority in preferring a game where the specials are boring which is to say they don't break the game. They managed to fix Kraken with its startup animation. They should either rework Triple Splashdown & Reefslider or get rid of them.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I think Triple Inkstrike as well as Booyah Bomb should stay precisely because they don't kill you unless you're severely occupied or distracted. In that sense, they are balanced. They actually require you to think about how to get the most out of them. They can't simply be used to autokill someone. I might be a minority in preferring a game where the specials are boring which is to say they don't break the game. They managed to fix Kraken with its startup animation. They should either rework Triple Splashdown & Reefslider or get rid of them.

I say that those types of specials are fine as long as they give players time to move out of the way. Which they currently do not.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Upon reexamining my values, I think all of the following specials should be removed:

Tri-Zooka, because it's awful.
Killer Wail 5.1; it should be used as a framework for a better special.
Big Bubbler because it makes the game less fun.
Ink Vac due to simultaneously being too strong and too weak.
Reefslider, since it can't be salvaged.
Tenta Missiles, which have already overstayed their welcome.
Inkjet, as it's gotten to the point of feeling old.
Ultra Stamp because it leaves the user too vulnerable.
Booyah Bomb because it doesn't leave the user vulnerable enough.
Kraken Royale, since OG Kraken with proper startup and no one-shot would be better.
Triple Splashdown because there are better Splashdown reworks.

This leaves eight returning specials from Splatoon 3:

Crab Tank; just the right amount of overpowered.
Zipcaster, always fun to use, and fun to fight with 95% of weapons.
Triple Inkstrike; the most fun special to be on the receiving end of.
Tacticooler, assuming its on-death buffs are replaced.
Wave Breaker, which has at least 10 good potential buffs.
Ink Storm, which is absolutely perfect.
Super Chump, with overflowing potential to be awesome.
Splattercolor Screen, which is brilliant outside of easily fixed accessibility issues.

Additionally, I have three suggestions for specials from previous games to bring back:

Kraken, from Splatoon 1, reworked to have similar startup, endlag, and duration to Kraken Royale and 70 jump damage. The special's increased speed and knockback vulnerability make it much fairer than the Splatoon 3 variant.

Splashdown, from Splatoon 2, also reworked to always be used in a super jump. When used normally, the special user will super jump straight upward, be able to steer their landing from the point they took off for two seconds at walking speed, then crash down after another 18 frames. Steering is blocked by walls that wouldn't normally be passable. This removes Splashdown's mid-use vulnerability problems and gives enemies time to get out of the way. The special's duration would be lowered by Special Power up at the same rate Quick Super Jump reduces super jump time, as the special would have identical duration to a normal super jump.

Sting Ray, from Splatoon 2, heavily reworked. Its shockwaves will be removed and the beam will taper off slightly past Crab Tank range. Its damage when fired through terrain will be half that of its standard damage. It will no longer show the silhouettes of enemy players. In exchange, the special will now turn at full speed with minor input delay, its attack startup will be halved, and it can be ended early by pressing R while firing, which creates a brief shockwave that deals 70 damage.
Yes, I do spend that much time thinking of ways to make Sting Ray good. I want my death laser back.

 

[Cephalobro]

The Splashdown rework should also either have its vertical range or its animation reworked so it's completely accurate to how it's portrayed. Can't have both a smaller animation and an infinite vertical range, can only have one of either.

For the animation method, make it so the animation itself has an additional cylinder of ink splash that reaches 10 times higher. That way, a player who encounters someone who uses the Splashdown would know that it wouldn't matter how high they can try to go to avoid it, they would be hit anyway. This allows the Splashdown to keep its infinite vertical range while making it accurate to its true hitbox.

If the infinite vertical range is too unhealthy for the game, then instead of reworking its animation to be accurate, its hitbox would instead be reworked to be accurate to its already existing animation. This means a decrease of vertical range to match that of its animation, which would allow a player to escape a Splashdown if they are above the user in many cases.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I've changed my mind about Vac. I already had a good idea for a simple way to fix its counterplay a while back, and that same fix would be enough to make the special good enough for Splatoon 4.

The fix is making it so the special explodes on the spot if it's completely filled, rather than having it cut suction and switch to the shot.