Buff, Nerf, Delete

[Grekly]

I got this idea for a game from the the game Kiss, Marry, Kill (Actually the kiss mean something else if you know but I digress)


The rules are simple you can choose any weapon main, sub, or special and you can do one of three things to it.


Buff/rework the weapon


Nerf it


Or delete it from the game entirely


You are allowed to choose any weapon but you need to provide a reason for why you want it be buffed, nerf, or delete. Doesn’t need to be lengthy it can be a simple short sentence.


One last thing if somebody posted something you disagree with you are allowed to discuss it with them and try to get a better idea for why they think that. Just don’t be an ******* and try to invalidate other opinions.


I go first


Buff: Octobrush

Octobrush struggles a lot against other short range weapons So I feel a slight damage buff can help it stand its ground against other short ranged weapons.


Nerf: Fizzy bomb

This is just me but I find fizzy to be way to spamable and I also find it strange that it cost less ink than curling so making the ink cost 65% might make it less spamable and annoying to fight.


Delete: Tenta Missiles

This is the coldest take on the century but missiles should have never been brought back. I don’t even need to say anything I just need to show this photo and it explains itself.

 

[Hikarimoon]

I got this idea for a game from the the game Kiss, Marry, Kill (Actually the kiss mean something else if you know but I digress)


The rules are simple you can choose any weapon main, sub, or special and you can do one of three things to it.


Buff/rework the weapon


Nerf it


Or delete it from the game entirely


You are allowed to choose any weapon but you need to provide a reason for why you want it be buffed, nerf, or delete. Doesn’t need to be lengthy it can be a simple short sentence.


One last thing if somebody posted something you disagree with you are allowed to discuss it with them and try to get a better idea for why they think that. Just don’t be an ******* and try to invalidate other opinions.


I go first


Buff: Octobrush

Octobrush struggles a lot against other short range weapons So I feel a slight damage buff can help it stand its ground against other short ranged weapons.


Nerf: Fizzy bomb

This is just me but I find fizzy to be way to spamable and I also find it strange that it cost less ink than curling so making the ink cost 65% might make it less spamable and annoying to fight.


Delete: Tenta Missiles

This is the coldest take on the century but missiles should have never been brought back. I don’t even need to say anything I just need to show this photo and it explains itself.

View attachment 10866

Yeah, I personally like Tenta missiles, but if someone locks them on me, (that includes you, JELETONS) I’m gonna go insane, ESPECIALLY if my teams losing

 

[OnePotWonder]

Buff: Goo Tuber
Nerf: Splat Bomb
Delete: Squeezer

Goo tuber is a weapon that's lots of fun to use, and it has two half-decent kits. It deserves better than eternal low tier.

Splat Bomb has almost zero interaction, and its main utility for all the weapons it's on is to quickly do 30 damage for a main weapon combo, or as a get-off-me tool. Nerfing the bomb's lethal and paint radius would only make the game more fun.

Squeezer is an overpowered weapon that's completely redundant and that some people physically cannot use. It should never have existed in the first place, and it only makes the game worse.

 

[DzNutsKong]

Buff: Splat Brella
This weapon has such a fun playstyle that's unlike anything else in the game but despite getting an insane kit nobody uses it. I don't even know if I'd say I want it to get damage back since I imagine Nintendo wants this to play more supportively as is. Just make it paint better, or maybe give it better ink efficiency, or maybe give it more HP on its shield, so on and so forth. I haven't played this thing much so it beats me how you'd do it.

Nerf: Trizooka
Honestly give it more startup AND reduce the outer damage back to 40. A special like this was in its most ideal spot in the tier list before that initial buff. This special doesn't paint and isn't meant to lock down space as opposed to just taking people's focus and killing them at a distance. If your primary goal is to kill people from far away and that's it then that should never be consistent or else you end up with something really overtuned by default.

Delete: Angle Shooter
All of the changes you could make to this subweapon to make it balanced are probably against Nintendo's internal design ideas for this game. Rapid Pro is literally the perfect weapon for this sub in its current form and it still sucks on it which speaks volumes to me. The only thing of value it's added to the game was that one Challenge around it, which was fun to be fair. Otherwise it's just artificially put more kits that suck into the game than there need to be. Shame because there's a lot of fun ideas here.

 

[Lisku]

delete tri sholsher. im begging you

 

[isaac4]

Going to be really biased right now but

1. Buff Machine
2. Nerf Tri-Zooka
3. Delete Angle Shooter

Sloshing Machine isn't in horrible place right now, especially when you look at other weapons that are much weaker than it without a strong kit but I always get very disappointed remembering how much more fun the main weapon used to feel. The fact that the main weapon itself got nerfed means that any other kit it gets later on will always feel less fun to play and if it get's a bad kit in Splatoon 4, the main weapon won't be enough to make it worth playing for me anymore. I've had a similar experience before with my favorite option in a series being over nerfed for being good in the previous game so I would really prefer not to deal with that again.

I probably don't have to explain why I want Zooka nerfed. I still don't want it be bad though, just not as easy to pop and get a ton of value from without proper positioning. I thought about putting Splattershot instead since it's the weapon being used for Zooka spam but I figured that unless you make it 220p, it's always going to have enough gear freedom to run a ton of scu with Comeback to deal with having a more expensive special.

I used to be okay with Angle Shooter being in the game but recently, I've grown to really hate how it was designed and what weapons they gave it to. It can do so many things, but it's not really good at any of them. We have Burst, Torp, or even Fizzy for designing kits with damage combos in mind but they seem to really want to avoid giving any weapons those options so they give them Angle Shooter instead knowing that it's the weaker option but thinking all the other utilities it has can compensate for that, which they don't. This is the only new sub for Splatoon 3 and it's been absolutely awful on almost everything it's been on while only being mediocre on other weapons. The fact that they had to buff it's range, damage, and paint multiple times but it still ended up being weak anyway just shows to me that this sub shouldn't have existed.

Obviously there's a lot more that should get buffed or nerfed but this is just for what I would care about the most.

 

[Hikarimoon]

Going to be really biased right now but

1. Buff Machine
2. Nerf Tri-Zooka
3. Delete Angle Shooter

Sloshing Machine isn't in horrible place right now, especially when you look at other weapons that are much weaker than it without a strong kit but I always get very disappointed remembering how much more fun the main weapon used to feel. The fact that the main weapon itself got nerfed means that any other kit it gets later on will always feel less fun to play and if it get's a bad kit in Splatoon 4, the main weapon won't be enough to make it worth playing for me anymore. I've had a similar experience before with my favorite option in a series being over nerfed for being good in the previous game so I would really prefer not to deal with that again.

I probably don't have to explain why I want Zooka nerfed. I still don't want it be bad though, just not as easy to pop and get a ton of value from without proper positioning. I thought about putting Splattershot instead since it's the weapon being used for Zooka spam but I figured that unless you make it 220p, it's always going to have enough gear freedom to run a ton of scu with Comeback to deal with having a more expensive special.

I used to be okay with Angle Shooter being in the game but recently, I've grown to really hate how it was designed and what weapons they gave it to. It can do so many things, but it's not really good at any of them. We have Burst, Torp, or even Fizzy for designing kits with damage combos in mind but they seem to really want to avoid giving any weapons those options so they give them Angle Shooter instead knowing that it's the weaker option but thinking all the other utilities it has can compensate for that, which they don't. This is the only new sub for Splatoon 3 and it's been absolutely awful on almost everything it's been on while only being mediocre on other weapons. The fact that they had to buff it's range, damage, and paint multiple times but it still ended up being weak anyway just shows to me that this sub shouldn't have existed.

Obviously there's a lot more that should get buffed or nerfed but this is just for what I would care about the most.

I agree. Imo but angle shooter is useless (sorry, @a hot mess)

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

You said buff or rework, but I don't think these really should be the same category. So I'll have 4 things.

Buff: Big Bubbler
This works great for weapons that synergize well with it, but it gets absolutely shredded by most specials in the game, meaning that they can't use it as a shield for very long. Of course this varies by special, but the ones that are good against it should do 0.5x damage to it so that it isn't countered by half of the specials in the game, and most of the good ones.
Actually, giving it utility specifically as a special blocker would be really cool. Being able to stand in the open and threaten things without having to worry about a crab or zooka would make the special be a way more functional shield, and it would offer a counter to zooka (and crab once cooler is nerfed). So specials (that do good damage to it) should only do 0.4x damage.

0.4x damage to bubble	no change	n/a
zooka missiles booyah wail? stamp crab slider strikes	zip storm kraken vac inkjet chumps TSD	bubble wave breaker? cooler screen

Nerf: Pencil
Do I really need to explain this one?

Rework: Blob
Blob plays best by staying back and painting an area, using its lingering shots and good paint to control an area from a distance. This is problematic in the same way that sub spam would be problematic if it was good. So it should be nerfed the same way we would nerf sub spam: ink efficiency. 20% more ink consumption per lob would let it keep its identity as a good painter/space controller, but make it not be able to spam it as much. It should also get a buff that lets it be better at fighting, since the shots being so slow makes it really hard to do more than make the enemies move side to side. So it should also get a shot velocity buff. 200% at first, so that if there's someone near you you actually have a chance of hitting them, and then gradually less and less speed as the blobs keep going.

Delete: Sprinkler
All the arguments I've seen for deleting angle shooter are based on it being weak. But I don't think that justifies removing it from the game; it simply needs more buffs. Sprinkler, on the other hand, is fundamentally not well designed. Having a sub weapon that only paints has only two potential uses. One is painting for area control. The problem with this is that any relevant sprinkler position will either be shot down immediately and get no value, or it will be a "sprinkler spot" that is very difficult or impossible to shoot down and paints an unfair amount in a relevant position on the map. The other use is passive special charge, which really does not need to have its own dedicated sub. If you want something to be good at getting special, just give it a paint or pfs buff.

 

[chaotik0]

there is so much in this game that needs buffing it’s absolutely laughable. i have too much brain damage to decide on 1 thing so i’ll just skip it, even if i did talk about one it would be way too long.

for nerf, there is the obvious pencil and cooler and zooka but i can’t think of anything else that is too strong, the main problem in this game balance wise is that a lot of stuff is too weak. you might think of something like squeezer which is a pretty overpowered weapon, but even in that case, the weapon is so difficult to play just to actually get the strengths. that weapon has always only been used competitively if either the player was absolutely insane or if the sub/special were also worth the difficulty, which it is right now because zooka is too strong. but, people are still gonna use shot most of the time because it is a pretty strong weapon while being much easier to play and it has zooka.

as for deleting, i dont think deleting anything from this game is a good idea at all. everything has its use case and its own part of this game, even if niche or annoying. and if they are, isn’t it better to have them reworked to be more fun instead of removing an entire option from this game? its funny to say AAAA I HATE PENCIL SEND IT TO THE SHADOW REALM but like, the thing about this game is that they can constantly change and balance it to be more fun. if pencil was fun and didn’t break this game, would it deserve to be banished? we also literally have a real example of this with missiles. they brought back this infamously lame and game breaking special, but they changed it so that it can’t be spammed as much, and isn’t as powerful, meaning you have to move up and fight with them to get the most value instead of sitting back and painting for more.

i might just be weird because i haven’t had any issue with any weapon in the game, especially to the point where i would want it deleted. it obviously sucks when a weapon takes over the game like pencil and zooka, but they aren’t so terrible in design that they need deleting, they just need some reworking is all. even screen which has caused so many issues for people shouldn’t be removed, it’s just a few changes away from actually being a good special. with how much stuff is in this game it’s impossible to get to everything, which is why a lot of stuff hasn’t gotten any attention. hopefully they get to do more in the balance patches since there are only 2 weapons and 1 stage left, though. plus, they always spend more time after the last bit of content balancing the game.

 

[Umbreonfan]

Buff: Splat roller. Not sure but it needs a buff somewhere.

Nerf: Tacticcoler. Less duration of soda and special saver nerf

Delete: Sprinkler. It ruins any kit this sub gets put on.

 

[a hot mess]

I agree. Imo but angle shooter is useless (sorry, @a hot mess)

im mad abt how they wanna nerf trizooka

 

[a hot mess]

buff: trizooka

nerf: triple splashdown

delete: toxic mist

 

[☆Oblivion☆]

Buff: Reef-lux 450

It may know how to paint but it struggles to fight well despite it's ability to one shot, increasing it tap shot damage will definitely help fix that issue in my opinion.

Nerf: Snipewriter

This thing is holding back other cooler weapons and is being forced to play over its ability to get cooler really quickly and it is able to do so from a safe distance. This weapon should get both a major paint nerf and a special charge.

Delete: Reefslider

As a self destruct button in disguise, the reefslider also does the exact same thing as a booyah bomb but instead of being able to use it from a distance, you are the bomb which makes it worse than other specials that do the exact same thing that you want. The game would practically change without it, its that useless.

 

[isaac4]

as for deleting, i dont think deleting anything from this game is a good idea at all.

I still say that we shouldn't have so many specials and subs anyway. We don't know if we're getting 3rd kits yet but if we do, I highly doubt we'll get 3rd kits for every weapon.

 

[isaac4]

I still say that we shouldn't have so many specials and subs anyway. We don't know if we're getting 3rd kits yet but if we do, I highly doubt we'll get 3rd kits for every weapon.

Actually, sub count might be fine even though I would want Angle Shooter gone but there's definitely too many specials.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I don’t know if it’s weird that I’m a little annoyed that everyone is picking underpowered subs for the ‘delete’ option.
a) I was kind of hoping to see more hot takes removing annoying main weapons like Clash or .52.
b) Splattercolor Screen exists and it’s objectively the least necessary weapon to exist in the game.

I like Sprinkler. I like Angle Shooter. I’m not going to say that they’re worth having on any given kit, but I’d rather have them be good than have to deal with even more bomb spam and Splash Walls.

 

[DzNutsKong]

To be clear I'd absolutely love a good Angle Shooter. Just revert it back to how it was in 1.0.0, then make it actually go where the reticle on screen is pointing for each weapon and make it have Disruptor's effect too when it hits people. From there you instantly have a super fun subweapon, probably my favorite in the game. In context though I don't think this is something Nintendo would ever do as opposed to just continuing to try smaller changes that avoid the problem out of fear of anything crazier making it way too strong. So, if I were brought to their front office for some reason and told to delete a subweapon without any explanation, I'd just choose that one.

 

[a hot mess]

I don’t know if it’s weird that I’m a little annoyed that everyone is picking underpowered subs for the ‘delete’ option.
a) I was kind of hoping to see more hot takes removing annoying main weapons like Clash or .52.
b) Splattercolor Screen exists and it’s objectively the least necessary weapon to exist in the game.

I like Sprinkler. I like Angle Shooter. I’m not going to say that they’re worth having on any given kit, but I’d rather have them be good than have to deal with even more bomb spam and Splash Walls.

\
TRANS CALLIE ATTACK !!

 

[Grekly]

Alright there is a lot of response here and I want to respond to some of them so here is one long lengthy post here because I was to lazy to reply earlier. Sorry for the great wall of text

Delete: Squeezer

Squeezer is an overpowered weapon that's completely redundant and that some people physically cannot use. It should never have existed in the first place, and it only makes the game worse.

I like the concept of squeezer a shooter with two firing modes focused on different things but I just don't like the whole spam zr to tap shot enemies to death. it has the same problem as inkbrush IMO where a weapon that just can not be played by some people due to having a physical condition is not really well designed in my eyes

Delete: Angle Shooter
All of the changes you could make to this subweapon to make it balanced are probably against Nintendo's internal design ideas for this game. Rapid Pro is literally the perfect weapon for this sub in its current form and it still sucks on it which speaks volumes to me. The only thing of value it's added to the game was that one Challenge around it, which was fun to be fair. Otherwise it's just artificially put more kits that suck into the game than there need to be. Shame because there's a lot of fun ideas here.

3. Delete Angle Shooter

I used to be okay with Angle Shooter being in the game but recently, I've grown to really hate how it was designed and what weapons they gave it to. It can do so many things, but it's not really good at any of them. We have Burst, Torp, or even Fizzy for designing kits with damage combos in mind but they seem to really want to avoid giving any weapons those options so they give them Angle Shooter instead knowing that it's the weaker option but thinking all the other utilities it has can compensate for that, which they don't. This is the only new sub for Splatoon 3 and it's been absolutely awful on almost everything it's been on while only being mediocre on other weapons. The fact that they had to buff it's range, damage, and paint multiple times but it still ended up being weak anyway just shows to me that this sub shouldn't have existed.

Obviously there's a lot more that should get buffed or nerfed but this is just for what I would care about the most.

Delete: Sprinkler
All the arguments I've seen for deleting angle shooter are based on it being weak. But I don't think that justifies removing it from the game; it simply needs more buffs. Sprinkler, on the other hand, is fundamentally not well designed. Having a sub weapon that only paints has only two potential uses. One is painting for area control. The problem with this is that any relevant sprinkler position will either be shot down immediately and get no value, or it will be a "sprinkler spot" that is very difficult or impossible to shoot down and paints an unfair amount in a relevant position on the map. The other use is passive special charge, which really does not need to have its own dedicated sub. If you want something to be good at getting special, just give it a paint or pfs buff.

Delete: Sprinkler. It ruins any kit this sub gets put on.

I'm a little suprise by how many delete sprinklers/angle shooter there is mostly because I feel that it's not really the sub weapon fault it just that it is incredibly weak and does nothing. I don't really have any problems with the sub weapon itself it just that the sub balance in this game is pretty bad with bombs like splat, fizzy, and burst basically doing everything and can win games just by being spammed meanwhile there is angle shooter which only has a useful on friday the 13th during a solar eclispe during the blue moon. These subs need more buffs than anything else. But I get where you guys are coming from with deleting it I really do it just I don't really like deleting something for being too weak

as for deleting, i dont think deleting anything from this game is a good idea at all. everything has its use case and its own part of this game, even if niche or annoying. and if they are, isn’t it better to have them reworked to be more fun instead of removing an entire option from this game?

Originally this thread was going to be a bit different with instead of delete it would of been reworked as I also don't really believe in deleting something from the game for being poorly designed but the reason why I changed it to delete is I felt that deleting something from the game would lead to more interesting discussion as one thing is being removed from the game. But yea generally speaking it's better to rework something into being more healthier instead of going "Welp we tried" and just tossing it into the bin we saw this with the splatoon 1 specials making a return in splatoon 3 and becoming less OP and annoying version of their previous version except for tri-zooka which is just a whole new can of worms

Alright that's all I have to say here now time for me to retreat to my hidey hole and just observe from a distance once again

 

[isaac4]

a) I was kind of hoping to see more hot takes removing annoying main weapons like Clash or .52.

I don't really hate any weapon enough to want it completely gone, honestly. I think Squeezer might be the only exception for me since it's extremely strong while also being a weapon that not everyone can play because of the mashing required. I just have higher hopes for weapons getting properly rebalanced or reworked more than I have any hope for weaker subs to significantly improve.