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Competitive Splatoon, will it take off?

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Zpenrith, May 29, 2015.

  1. Chris

    Chris Full Squid

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    True, 200cc did add more shortcuts, I imagine they had to add it because of the negative feedback, and wasn't planned beforehand. While I understand how people can see one item as more strategic, most people view it as less strategic, especially in battle mode. While I can handle periodic DLC of weapons, gear, maps and even modes, friend rooms is a day 1 must have. People want to have a team so they can play their team based shooter....
     
  2. Vexen

    Vexen Senior Squid

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    Report me for what exactly? There is no rules against responding to someone that responded to you. And that's cool, runaway from a losing argument claiming that it isn't worth your time, its what you seem to be good at besides being ignorant.
     
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  3. Pivi

    Pivi Inkling Cadet

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    There's gonna be a Splatoon tournament at Nintendo's World Tournament thing so if Nintendo is already behind it, well :^))))
     
  4. LancerStaff

    LancerStaff Inkling Cadet

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    Hmph. I'll box this so it doesn't clog things up...

    Do you really think they would of just hid something so important? That's poor game design, and a type of design Sakurai doesn't utilize. We have no evidence that it was ever intended to be used in that way, and judging from the lack of 1v1 balance it wasn't playtested for competitive play like everything else. The radical differences between games point to L-canceling being an afterthought. Furthermore, in Smash 4 it's just a mere piece of equipment, and a weak one at that.

    Pay attention. Casual Melee veterans complained. Never said that the 1% did squat for sales.

    People don't want "cheap" techniques in games, period. How is Wavedashing different? Why wouldn't people complain when they did for snaking? He isn't removing competitive aspects just because, he's removing things that would directly interfere with others' enjoyment of the game.

    Techniques =/= competitive. In case you haven't noticed, the actual Smash 4 fans don't give a **** about them. One of the forum's biggest personalities was overjoyed when DACUSing was removed just so he didn't have to murder his hands on it anymore. Greninja fans were a little miffed initially but that's mostly because of the nerfs, but the most recent Shadow Sneak technique that was patched out actually gave his a more consistent and less technical option.

    On a slightly more relevant note...

    In the 200cc reveal video you could see Mario jump over the lava lake in the first big turn of Grumble Volcano. This could of happened without 200cc, had there been a vehicle that could go fast enough. But there wasn't. Why in the world would this impossible shortcut exist if not for 200cc? Actually, 200cc complements the overall course design quite nicely. Almost as if it were planned from the very start...

    Of course, 200cc has done very little for MK8 competitively besides smooth over the balance issues somewhat. It's not that much more difficult and presents it's own problems, such as Green Shells being more ridiculous and making certain tracks laughably short. Actually, it's done little for addressing the community's problems. Speaking of which, the community itself is still torn... You have half the players sticking to 150 and the other 200, and after a similar fiasco earlier in MK8's life, the rift would of likely been present even if it would of been ready from day-one.

    Going back to Splatoon, Nintendo indeed advertised it as a competitive shooter. But how competitive? Because right now it's a sort of casual-competitive that your typical fighter or shooter promotes with online modes, not giant tournaments or anything of the sort. We'll have to see when the update comes, but for now it seems that it was created for randoms.
     
  5. Chris

    Chris Full Squid

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    If 250cc was added there would be even more shortcuts, doesn't mean 250cc is planned. Besides, I bet that shortcut would be possible in mario kart wii if 200cc was there too. Accidental shortcuts were in Mario Kart Wii all over the place so I this might also have been one that the developers discovered while in 200cc. Also Grumble Volcano was in Mario Kart Wii, and that game doesn't have 200cc, so saying it was planned from the start because of the track design is just wrong.

    Many people still see it as a welcome addition. The community is dead because it has the melee-brawl problem and most hardcore fans either stopped playing are stuck with Wii.
    The community has nothing to do with this btw I don't see what you're driving at? Like I legit don't know what why you're bringing this up

    Splatoon wasn't advertised for tournaments, this is true. However, even more casual players are upset by the lack of friend rooms.
    Also I still don't see your point in bringing this up, maybe because I'm typing this at 6 am or something
    Usually something is created for fun first and then it becomes competitive, like, every sport ever
    And Splatoon was advertised as a team based shooter, not a competitive shooter, there's a difference
     
  6. WydrA

    WydrA Inkling Commander

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    @Setu
    My reasoning doesn't. I've been talking about the similarity in forums this whole time. I don't know how you can't see that.
    Did you even read my comment? I clearly stated the reasons we're most likely partnered. Old conflicts was not one of them. Perhaps you should go read it again.
    Also I've stated several times now they are not the same they are similar. You really need to read comments more carefully, otherwise you just make the conversation go a round in circles.
    It's nice you want the best for the forums. So do a lot of others here. I personally would ask for a lot more than that when choosing a moderator, especially considering that what you think may be best for the forum may not at all be best for the forum. But I'm not a part of the staff, nor did I even apply, so...
    @Chris
    Because the standards for gaming right now are sooooooo high. And Nintendo totally doesn't go above and beyond them regularly.


    So someone disagrees with your opinion and you tell them to never talk to you again or you'll waste the moderators' time with a useless and trivial report. Very mature.


    You can't say your argument is a hyperbole, and then exactly restate it and pretend you've at all clarified your viewpoint. All you've done is say it's a hyperbole and then restate it. That's useless for everyone.


    MK8 also added more more small jumps and other small strategies that allowed you to take the lead and balanced the items a lot better. That actually makes for a much better competitive experience.
    Nintendo hasn't sabotaged crap, Sakurai has. He's technically freelance, and Nintendo lets him do pretty much whatever he wants. That said they seem to have convinced him to ease back on the sabotage with smash 4, so you're wrong there as well.
    If Splatoon was on PS4 or Xbox 1 it would be generic brown grey blue shooter number 3000 and, yes would have come with lobbies but also would have been filled to the brim with bugs and microtransactions. but sure, Nintendo is the bad guy.
    New IP's are very, rarely system sellers. Thus why Nintendo barely ever advertises new IPs as much as they have Splatoon. People buy systems for games from series they know.

    @LancerStaff
    Look up teching/techrolling/wallteching.


    Except the fact that it only serves a single purpose. This is like saying we have no evidence that jump was meant to be used to jump on ledges because it never specifically states that you can. It's common sense. An even better is teching, which you should now know about.


    The main problem with balance in smash games is that Sakurai tried to do everything himself and underestimate the use of the techs. That's why he had help with balancing this time around.


    You're really gonna need to clarify on how you came to this conclusion.


    So veterans of a series that was on its second game complained soooo much that the game was internationally received as an instant classic, blew away sales expectations and became the best selling game on the gamecube. Now its all making sense. Glad i finally "paid attention".
    Also 1% would be exactly 1% of sales... that's why they're called the 1%...

    They are different because they are not cheap. How can something that anyone has the ability to do with practice cheap? Everyone can do it. And it's not like they're game breakingly strong techniques, where you pull an instant win either, it's just a small thing that has the potential to add up.

    If this affects your enjoyment of the game you have the mntality of a ten year old. Someone is doing something I could always do but don't want to learn or adapt to? Cheap!
    Seriously, think about what you're saying here:
    "Grrrr that guy over there is removing frames from his aerial landing lag and moving around the stae by pressing two buttons! Grrrr how could he do that?! This game is just ruined now! Look at him moving aound and getting rid of frames all over the place!? This is terrible!!!! Think of the children! WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?!?!? GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"



    Not exactly, no however techniques (usually) = more freedom to perform at a higher level and/or more efficiently which = higher skill ceiling
    and higher skill ceiling = more competitive
    so.... well i'm assuming you know basic algebra, so hopefully you can figure the rest out.



    Well that's not totally true. Pretty much everyone is cool with the removal of brawl and melee techniques because it's a new game, but no one is ever happy when techniques specific to smash 4 get removed just cause sakurai has a problem with them.

    EDIT: Added spoiler tags cuz I'm a nice guy.
     
  7. LancerStaff

    LancerStaff Inkling Cadet

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    That shortcut is impossible on MKW even at 500cc because Lakitu picks you up. Not so much in MK8. Another example is in Dolphin Shoals, at the end right after the glide ramp. You could fly over the rough patch with a Golden Shroom on 150... But that's slower then just landing and using it. Most of the time gliders cut out reasonably before an obstacle unless they want you to fly over it, but in that case it's just out of reach by usable means. On 200 anybody can just fly over it by holding down. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    Then there's the fact that the roads themselves are much more spacious then they've ever been, and by a large margin. Many turns that were difficult in previous games were made easier because the tracks are wider, but that's been undone by 200cc.

    The balance too makes more sense on 200cc, namely making heavies less ideal, but bikes aren't helped at all. Still 1000x better then before.

    I bring this up because you said that they added it because of negative feedback, when it did little to address said feedback and actually made things worse by dividing the community.

    Unlike L-canceling, which isn't a completely unique animation and looks more like a glitch then anything, can be reasonably figured out after seeing a CPU perform it. Notably, an Ukemi is an action borrowed from other fighting games. I'd also have to check the manuals again, but I know L-canceling isn't in any.

    No, it serves two. The first is to give the pitiable CPUs an advantage, and to arbitrarily lock players out of faster aerials by being binded to a completely irrelevant button. Either that lock is to keep players from progressing for God-knows-why, or it's just an extra and wasn't included seriously. Can you honestly say with certainty that it's the former?

    Sakurai decided to have help with the balance so he could correctly take techs into account... And removes all the techs. He's weird, but he's not an idiot. He asked Namco to help because they have more experience with fighting games and balancing a 50 character roster is a lot of work, of which Sakurai already has tons of making new characters and modes.

    What was gained by cutting L-canceling in half? Not much in terms of balance, less combos or "depth" if you prefer, not enough for legitimate punishes except on the slowest of moves... It's like it was an afterthought. Smash 4's equipment system works in a way that it's impossible to use the Smooth Lander effect without altering a character's attack, defense, or speed stat, completely limiting it's use to equipment play where it's completely outclassed.

    You really think people didn't have complaints with Melee? Besides the laughable roster that's the prime one.

    People saw snaking as cheating even after MKDD. I'm sorry, but arguing with the unwashed masses is futile. You're better off listening instead of stunting the game's sales with their complaining.

    "Thinking of the children" is what created Smash in the first place. Melee wouldn't exist if it hadn't been created as a casual game.

    Let's look at a few techniques throughout history... Shadow Freezing, or making use of an oversized hitbox on an otherwise short ranged move in Metroid Prime Hunters lets you use said move in new ways, such as freezing players across the stage. It also makes the character with exclusive access to the move the absolute best character. Oh, wait, now you shouldn't even bother with other characters... Less depth with it then without. Snaking lets you move much faster, accelerate much faster, and take new shortcuts. Good, right? Well, now there's only two viable vehicles and it destroys your hands... No, not MK, F-Zero GX. You try snaking for an hour and tell me your fingers aren't raw. The pause technique in Megaman, Z saber combo canceling in Megaman X, IDC in SSBB... They trivalize each game and remove almost all depth. Techniques are generally a very bad thing. Think of a game, practically any game. There's something that wasn't intended that either trivalizes the whole thing or skips a major portion of it.

    People liked the removal of Rush Canceling, vectoring, item canceling... And a bunch of other techniques which upset the game's balance.
     
  8. IsmaR

    IsmaR was tentacles all along
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    Report abuse is punishable by infractions, fyi
     
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  9. Chris

    Chris Full Squid

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    It doesn't matter how good the gameplay is, if it doesn't have basic features a lot of people won't buy it or that it's ok for nintendo to do these things.
    Why are you defending this? You should be demanding day 1 friend rooms as well, as you need those to do clan wars, and you need clan wars for the community to grow

    The guy doesn't just disagree with me, he pretty much insults me whenever he replies calling me ignorant etc, as a mature forum I think we should avoid these situations unless we want this to be 4chan

    Taking the lead in Mario Kart Wii was much easier, the golden mushrooms and stare were more effective more off road to mushroom through etc, so you're wrong. Also there's a reason why Mario Kart Wii is still alive and the Mario Kart 8 community isn't doing so well, MKWii is just genrally better in many people's eyes.
    Oh, I'm sorry that I didn't include Sakurai in my Nintendo list, he only makes one of the best selling exclusives for them. He's practically Nintendo. That doesn't mean he doesn't patch out stuff like DACUS, either way it's taking away competition from a Nintendo game so ye.
    And you are absolutely right, there are no good or unique PS4 or Xbox 1 game ever, everything is Call of Duty and those gamers and mindless drones. And not every PS4 or Xbox 1 game is filled with microtransactions or bad glitches. Also just because someone is doing something wrong doesn't give nintendo a free pass.
    Just because they aren't usually system sellers, doesn't mean they can't be. A brand new online multiplayer game that the Wii U clearly lacks can get it sales, especially with the Wii U bundle.

    This is the second thread the guy has replied to me calling me ignorant, I do not wish for squidboards to be a place where people can just insult you freely like it's some random forum on the edge of the internet. I just warned him not to bother me again


    I don't think you get what I said, I just said that more speed=more shortcuts, so this will automatically happen. Also the rock hop shortcut in Grumble Volcano was removed so if they wanted to make it shortcut oriented they would've left it in.

    The roads are more spacious because now it's 12 players, instead of 8 (xept MKW). You can compare for example DK Mountain on double dash and Wii and see the clear difference.

    Bikes weren't helpful in 150cc anyway, they couldn't fire hop. Also only a tiny fraction of players care for "balance", this is not a fighting game where more characters give you more variety, here all the characters, and usually vehicles control basically the same for their weight class. In Mario Kart Wii pretty much everyone used Funky Kong and nobody complained, it was even insulting to use someone else like Birdo because it was a clear gesture of sandbagging.

    and ughhh... Did I miss something? Why are we talking about MK8's community again? And no it wouldn't have divided the community any more than it was anyway. Most hardcore Mario Kart Wii fans either stopped playing mario kart or stayed with Wii, and the same goes for double dash, DS, 64 etc
     
  10. Hinichii.ez.™

    Hinichii.ez.™ Is Splatoon an E-Sport or just a meme?

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    I thought this thread was about, was about splatoon.
     
  11. Vexen

    Vexen Senior Squid

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    I do admit to calling him ignorant but that is all, I have kept my 'insulting' within the rules.

    "Respect other users. Flaming (insulting, heated arguing with) other members is not allowed. Demeaning or derogatory comments based on race, religion, sexual orientation, culture, ethnicity, handicap, nationality or gender will not be tolerated. Physical threats against and repeated harassment of other members is strictly prohibited."

    No you did not "just warn me" to not bother you again, you threatened me by saying you would report me for abuse if I replied to anymore of your messages.
     
  12. Hinichii.ez.™

    Hinichii.ez.™ Is Splatoon an E-Sport or just a meme?

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    Take it to pm
     
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  13. Vexen

    Vexen Senior Squid

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    Not to be rude but I believe only mods can dictate what two users do. And it'd be pointless to do as he'd just cry wolf and report my messages
     
  14. Setu

    Setu Moderator
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    Actually I think it sounds like a fantastic idea.
     
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  15. Vexen

    Vexen Senior Squid

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    I never said it was a bad idea to take it to pm, just that it would be pointless and wouldn't accomplish anything for either side.
     
    #95 Vexen, Jun 10, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
  16. Faces3

    Faces3 Inkling

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    as long as people keep chatting about splatoon, playing splatoon, figuring out new tech, playing splatoon, getting people into splatoon, playing splatoon, playing splatoon, and playing splatoon the game will be alive. did i mention playing splatoon?
     
  17. Funen1

    Funen1 Full Squid

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    It's hard to judge any time before August how a competitive scene for Splatoon might start up and grow, because the game, as it is right now, has absolutely no capability to support set-in-stone teams of 4 players. I can definitely see how it can be supported once the August patch rolls around, but for now the most anyone can do is join some group and practice with and against each other as much as you can.
     

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