Discussing Inkling/Octoling Biology

[Globin347]

Well... that gives a great deal of support to the inkling parents... Although, one could technically argue that it doesn't provide evidence that inklings actually care for their offspring.

 

[Globin347]

...I wish we knew more about inkling ink. Then we could decide how an inkling would fare in a fight against a human.

 

[Dolphoshi]

well i think the inkling would have a very good chance at a human simply because our natural combat abilities are very limited but i think it would be an even match seeing how the shots from inklings do damage to wooden boxes and we know bullets would do damage to inklings from a previous discussion on this forum and we humans really don't have a natural defense but the inklings have their ink so i think inklings would win

 

[BlackZero]

well i think the inkling would have a very good chance at a human simply because our natural combat abilities are very limited but i think it would be an even match seeing how the shots from inklings do damage to wooden boxes and we know bullets would do damage to inklings from a previous discussion on this forum and we humans really don't have a natural defense but the inklings have their ink so i think inklings would win

If it was shot at high pressure, it wouldn't have to be corrosive, toxic, or otherwise harmful. High pressure liquid alone can break bones and damage tissue.
If Inklings are vulnerable to water however, an air strike from a fire fighter airtanker could wipe out a ton of them. Kinda makes you wonder why the Octolings didn't try that during the war. A combination of those, firetrucks, and fireboats could wreak havoc on Inklings. Furthermore, their ink cannot stick to metal. Even if it is corrosive, it wouldn't likely damage metal vehicles if it falls right off. The weapons we've seen probably wouldn't have the range to hit aircraft, and amphibious assault is out of the question.

So it's a question of short-ranged high-pressure liquid versus armored water trucks, aircraft, and boats. I think the Inklings would have a tough time covering the ground and surviving having water dumped on their heads. Even if they aren't completely vulnerable to water, we could use DMK, naphtha, or turpentine which eats up paint and ink pretty quickly. It has the added bonus of being flammable just to be safe.

 

[Globin347]

I'm pretty sure that the ink should stick to most metal pretty well... I would guess that anything the ink can't stick to is either simply "out of bounds", or covered in some ink proof coating... I'm aware that this changes very little, but I thought I'd bring it up.

As for the weaponry... You know, inklings have helicopters, too. And given that Marie mentions TNT by name during one of the saltspray rig announcements, I infer that inklings have access to much of the same weaponry we do...

Admittedly, they wouldn't have had any incentive to develop small firearms, but as BlackZero said, If the ink guns have enough pressure...

Also, I would guess that ink is at least somewhat corrosive to organic tissue, since it evolved based on it's ability to tear apart enemy inklings.

 

[BlackZero]

I'm pretty sure that the ink should stick to most metal pretty well... I would guess that anything the ink can't stick to is either simply "out of bounds", or covered in some ink proof coating... I'm aware that this changes very little, but I thought I'd bring it up.

It doesn't stick to the metal plates on the Octostamp, Octowhirl, and in many levels on Story Mode that are not out of bounds. It also doesn't stick to any shields the Octolings use. The only metal objects it appears to damage are the teeth on the Octomaw, and it doesn't stick to those either afaik. I don't know why this is other than certain metals are vulnerable to ink, but the majority aren't. That's assuming the Octomaw's teeth are metal and not composite ceramics or polymer. In either case, the ink seems to be pretty harmless against metal objects.

As for the weaponry... You know, inklings have helicopters, too. And given that Marie mentions TNT by name during one of the saltspray rig announcements, I infer that inklings have access to much of the same weaponry we do...

I base my assessment purely on what's presented in game. Marie's comment only proves that 1) they have TNT or 2) she's aware of what it is. It doesn't prove they have weaponized it. The only "explosive" weapons in the game, even when fighting the Great Octoweapons, are ink weapons. Something that could punch through armor would have been very useful. In fact, the only weapons you're given to stop the greatest threat to Inkopolis are ink based.

Even if I give this every advantage and say they have used TNT as a weapon, that doesn't solve the problem of delivery systems. TNT has only been used to fill explosive projectiles, not as a propellant. The only propellants that leaves are ink (used for inkstrikes) and compressed air. Ink is too dense to compress enough for it to serve as a long-ranged propellant: it works as very close-ranged rocket artillery, but wouldn't work for anything beyond similar ranges to our modern portable mortars. Air, water, and steam can work, but lack the range of combustible rocket propellant considering these would have to carry a warhead and possibly guidance systems. With our solid, liquid, and hybrid-fuel rocket engines, we can launch missiles like the BGM-109 Tomahawk up to 1,500 miles from missile cruisers, and small artillery rockets like the M-26 up to 20 miles. We could hit them with small, short ranged artillery rockets long before coming within range of an inkstrike missile. Even if they used an IS missile, there's no guarantee it would do anything to an armored target.

And this is only talking about ballistic missiles/artillery. There's no way an Ink propelled missile could catch up to and hit modern aircraft. If they used ink-propelled artillery shells, range is still an issue. If they used ink-propelled flak shells, there's no guarantee the shrapnel could penetrate the armor on modern aircraft or that they'd be able to hit such aircraft accurately. They'd have to carpet-bomb their airspace which would use TONS of ink if chargers are any indication. Even then, ballistic missiles, high-altitude bombers, and wild weasel teams could deal with any Inkling Triple A.

Helicopters would be easy to defeat with our own interceptor aircraft and Triple A. Assuming their weapons are ink-based (as shown in the game), and given the above statements on ink and metal, I'm not sure how effective Inkling aircraft and Triple A would be against our own. Needless to say, any Inklings shot down over water would be in for a bad time. The same goes for Inkling naval forces: a sinking ship would be a far greater problem for them than us. Fireboats spraying water with air or ballistic missile support would make it very difficult for Inklings to fight back

Our military is designed to attack and defeat materiel. Given our GEOINT capabilities, it wouldn't be difficult to target respawn pads with ballistic missiles or aircraft. If those were destroyed, Inklings wouldn't be able to recover their losses as easily. Based on what is shown in game, I don't believe Inklings would be able to combat conventional human militaries effectively without having to invest in significant R&D before fielding weapons designed to fight considering the only think that could be used for anti-materiel weapons is TNT. They are used to fighting with Ink. That works if the enemy is vulnerable to it. If not, they'd have a significant disadvantage as it would be easier for us to repurpose our weapons to fight them than for them to do the same for us.

 

[Globin347]

...Well, if you look at the sky in inkopolis, you can see modern planes flying. Inklings also have cars and trucks, at least as good as ours, as can be seen on urchin underpass and flounder heights. Given all this, I'm sure inklings have developed more material weapons.

As for not having these weapons in singleplayer... either:

This was intended to be a covert guerrilla operation, and cuttlefish felt like weaponry powerful enough to take out the octoweapons would be too bulky to take with you, or...

Cuttlefish is a paranoid elder living in a shack who can't afford big guns and doesn't trust the government enough to let them know where the zapfish are.

 

[BlackZero]

...Well, if you look at the sky in inkopolis, you can see modern planes flying. Inklings also have cars and trucks, at least as good as ours, as can be seen on urchin underpass and flounder heights. Given all this, I'm sure inklings have developed more material weapons.

Again, I base all of this entirely on what's shown in game. I prefer to let the game speak for itself. Airplanes and cars only prove that they have commercial airliners and vehicles. That doesn't mean they have a military or have invested in developing anti-materiel weaponry. The game is rather clear that Inkling combat revolves around Ink. It gives us no reason to believe they've developed non-ink weapons. Even the great Octoweapons revolve around Ink. The Inkzooka is ink based. The game gives zero indication that Inklings have paid any thought to non-Ink weaponry aside from the Killer Wail, which uses sound.

This was intended to be a covert guerrilla operation, and cuttlefish felt like weaponry powerful enough to take out the octoweapons would be too bulky to take with you, or...

The Vietcong and Mujahideen had no trouble using armor busting weapons like the RPG-2 and homemade explosives to stop US and Soviet armor in guerilla operations. The Japanese in WWII also employed similar strategies against US armor by burying 500 lb bombs beneath anti-tank mines.

Cuttlefish is a paranoid elder living in a shack who can't afford big guns and doesn't trust the government enough to let them know where the zapfish are.

Agent 3 could afford heavier grade firepower after several TW or Ranked Matches. Assuming there is a government (as they game gives no indication there is one, and the lack of interest in the missing Great Zapfish strongly suggests there isn't one, or it simply doesn't care that an essential central power source disappeared), one would expect them to take more interest in a historic enemy that is known for their tech savvy and military engineering. There's no indication that anyone other than Cpt. Cuttlefish and the Splatoon pays any attention to them.

The Octarians demonstrate that they have things like rocket propulsion, "smart" missiles, stealth technology, levitation, etc. The Inklings don't demonstrate any of this despite having a very good reason to have these capabilities. Of the two, Octarians are more suited to combatting conventional human militaries than Inklings based on what the game shows about them.

 

[Globin347]

Well, once again, the inklings don't have a whole lot of incentive to develop gunpowder-based small firearms, as ink works for that purpose...

I'd like to get something out of the way here. Are there weapons which are as small and easy to carry as Splatoon's ink guns, yet have the power to destroy the great octoweapons? ...Well, I guess there would be some bombs like that, but...

Agent 3 could afford heavier grade firepower after several TW or Ranked Matches. Assuming there is a government (as they game gives no indication there is one, and the lack of interest in the missing Great Zapfish strongly suggests there isn't one, or it simply doesn't care that an essential central power source disappeared), one would expect them to take more interest in a historic enemy that is known for their tech savvy and military engineering. There's no indication that anyone other than Cpt. Cuttlefish and the Splatoon pays any attention to them.

Firstly, It's one thing for the inklings to buy ink based weapons, as they use them for turf wars. It's something else entirely for them to buy a bomb that could theoretically destroy public property and kill many people who wouldn't normally be at extreme risk to ink. (Also, I don't think Spyke has access to these kinds of weapons).

As for the government issue, I have only one counter: game design.
As I have previously stated, it would be extremely bad game design for an online shooter if Inkopolis went into some kind of panic/lock-down until the single-player campaign was finished. Between the splatfests, general online gameplay, and the developers not wanting to try to devise a way for Inkopolis to go into total war while still holding city-wide festivals and minor-league sporting events, trying to give Inkopolis a realistic reaction to the disappearance of the great zapfish would be far more effort than it's worth, and hurt the game on top of that. (besides- even the kids would have to realize how catastrophic the situation is. They can't be completely clueless.)

Also, There are plenty of other video games in which government does not play a visible role. You don't actually think Hyrule could survive if their entire military was as bad as the soldiers seen in the games, do you? Similarly, Grand theft auto police will, after only a few minutes, forget about the man who brutally murdered an innocent civilian. That's hardly a competent government.

While it is cheap to use the "it's just a game" excuse for everything that doesn't add up, one must keep in mind that there are times when it would severely hurt the game to portray something like government realistically.

 

[BlackZero]

Well, once again, the inklings don't have a whole lot of incentive to develop gunpowder-based small firearms, as ink works for that purpose...

I'd like to get something out of the way here. Are there weapons which are as small and easy to carry as Splatoon's ink guns, yet have the power to destroy the great octoweapons? ...Well, I guess there would be some bombs like that, but...

That's exactly my point: they followed a different path of technological evolution. The weapons they developed work great for them because they are engineered to be effective against enemies vulnerable to Ink. Without anything to suggest otherwise, human military equipment does not appear to be vulnerable to this sort of thing given how the Ink reacts to metals. In order to make their weapons effective against humans, they'd have to re-engineer their weaponry. Humans wouldn't have to: they could easily adapt pre-existing military hardware to deliver water (which is supposedly fatal to Inklings) and already possess the capacity to destroy Inkling materiel should they field it. That's because we don't have natural weapons like ink, thus we had to engineer our own that not only trumps anything that can compete with it but also function in virtually any environment, including a nuclear battlefield.

Firstly, It's one thing for the inklings to buy ink based weapons, as they use them for turf wars. It's something else entirely for them to buy a bomb that could theoretically destroy public property and kill many people who wouldn't normally be at extreme risk to ink. (Also, I don't think Spyke has access to these kinds of weapons).

This is true, except that there is no noticeable difference between the weapons Agent 3 uses and those in TW and Ranked. It's possible that they are modified versions of real weapons, but they use the same ammo: ink. Same with Splat bombs.

Also, There are plenty of other video games in which government does not play a visible role. You don't actually think Hyrule could survive if their entire military was as bad as the soldiers seen in the games, do you? Similarly, Grand theft auto police will, after only a few minutes, forget about the man who brutally murdered an innocent civilian. That's hardly a competent government.

With Hyrule, there doesn't appear to be any threat. All the races either acknowledge Princess Zelda as their ruler, or have good relations with her. In GTA, the whole point is to be satirical to the Nth degree. The way the government acts is consistent with the rules of how society functions in that particular universe. The game decides what is normal, in other words.

With Splatoon, there is zero input as to how things work beyond matches and the story mode. With nothing to go on, I'm using very generalized trends in how governments behave, based on my education in international affairs to fill in the gaps. The game was made by humans, thus traces of "real world" phenomena are going to infiltrate the game. The devs can't help using human elements in the game as they are humans and are only capable of thinking like humans. Inkopolis was based on Tokyo, which is in Japan. Japan, despite being very close to two countries that have no love for them (N. Korea and China), has not maintained a conventional military, merely a self-defense force. Granted, this was due to the US essentially forbidding them from having a military and waging war. Still, it's a very controversial issue among the Japanese as to whether or not they should establish an actual military even though the US has given them permission to do so. The people simply do not see the need for one and many don't want one at all despite rather overt aggressiveness from China on maritime territory claims and North Korea threatening the world with nuclear holocaust every year or so to remind the world they exist.

I see a similar situation in Inkopolis: the Inklings are simply not militaristic. Perhaps they have a defense agreement with another entity, or perhaps they have a competent defense force that has simply never had to mobilize. Either way, the idea of a military simply doesn't not hold any significance to them. This may be difficult for Americans and Europeans to grasp given the almost saintly level of reverence our society places upon military personnel, but there are some cultures that simply do not place any significance on their own military power.

With that said, I wouldn't expect some massive breakdown of Inkopolian society over the Zapfish disappearing. Still, one would expect some manner of response from a government entity; even if only a speech from their mayor/president/whatever reassuring them everything will be fine. Of course we can dismiss this as a game development decision. There's nothing inherently wrong with throwing up our hands and saying "it's just a videogame." Personally, I would have done that with the respawn pads, as respawning is clearly a staple of online shooters. With that said, I think it's an interesting and entertaining thought experiment to see how much we can explain with real world mechanics, but ymmv.

 

[Globin347]

With Splatoon, there is zero input as to how things work beyond matches and the story mode. With nothing to go on, I'm using very generalized trends in how governments behave, based on my education in international affairs to fill in the gaps. The game was made by humans, thus traces of "real world" phenomena are going to infiltrate the game. The devs can't help using human elements in the game as they are humans and are only capable of thinking like humans. Inkopolis was based on Tokyo, which is in Japan. Japan, despite being very close to two countries that have no love for them (N. Korea and China), has not maintained a conventional military, merely a self-defense force. Granted, this was due to the US essentially forbidding them from having a military and waging war. Still, it's a very controversial issue among the Japanese as to whether or not they should establish an actual military even though the US has given them permission to do so. The people simply do not see the need for one and many don't want one at all despite rather overt aggressiveness from China on maritime territory claims and North Korea threatening the world with nuclear holocaust every year or so to remind the world they exist.

I see a similar situation in Inkopolis: the Inklings are simply not militaristic. Perhaps they have a defense agreement with another entity, or perhaps they have a competent defense force that has simply never had to mobilize. Either way, the idea of a military simply doesn't not hold any significance to them. This may be difficult for Americans and Europeans to grasp given the almost saintly level of reverence our society places upon military personnel, but there are some cultures that simply do not place any significance on their own military power.

With that said, I wouldn't expect some massive breakdown of Inkopolian society over the Zapfish disappearing. Still, one would expect some manner of response from a government entity; even if only a speech from their mayor/president/whatever reassuring them everything will be fine. Of course we can dismiss this as a game development decision. There's nothing inherently wrong with throwing up our hands and saying "it's just a videogame." Personally, I would have done that with the respawn pads, as respawning is clearly a staple of online shooters. With that said, I think it's an interesting and entertaining thought experiment to see how much we can explain with real world mechanics, but ymmv.

That seems like a pretty good explanation. Admittedly, one would expect a nation that sends children into gladiator matches to be pretty militaristic, but the inklings have apparently lived for 100 years of peace.

I would guess the octarians view the inklings as violent both because of government propoganda, and because they haven't really seen the inklings since the great turf war.

 

[Flipz]

Regarding why the Octarians wouldn't use mass water-based tactics (i.e. water drops and flooding) to wipe out the Inklings: presumably, it is just as dangerous to them as it would be to the Inklings, since both were warring over reduced landmass from rising sea levels. If there's already not enough land, flooding what land is there seems like a rather poor strategy. Additionally, it seems like the domes already existed (and were held by the Octarians) at the time of the war since the Octarians were able to retreat to them; with those existing underground, it again seems like a very bad idea to flood the Inkling armies and simultaneously risk flooding the domes that are your last resort and/or place you want to lock the Inklings in after the war.

 

[Globin347]

Well, the game implies that the octarians built the domes as a last resort after losing the war, but what you said makes more sense.

 

[BlackZero]

That seems like a pretty good explanation. Admittedly, one would expect a nation that sends children into gladiator matches to be pretty militaristic, but the inklings have apparently lived for 100 years of peace.

I would guess the octarians view the inklings as violent both because of government propoganda, and because they haven't really seen the inklings since the great turf war.

It's not uncommon for governments to shift attention away from domestic hardships onto a foreign threat. A big part of why North Korea acts the way it does is because that is the only way it can maintain any sort of legitimacy among its own people. China is in a similar situation with Taiwan. They Octarians appear to be suffering from an energy crisis. Considering they were defeated by the Inklings, it's a reasonable assumption that Octarian leadership blames the Inklings for any difficulties they are facing to convince their constituents that Inklings are the reason things are tough and not political or economic mismanagement on their part.

Regarding why the Octarians wouldn't use mass water-based tactics (i.e. water drops and flooding) to wipe out the Inklings: presumably, it is just as dangerous to them as it would be to the Inklings, since both were warring over reduced landmass from rising sea levels. If there's already not enough land, flooding what land is there seems like a rather poor strategy. Additionally, it seems like the domes already existed (and were held by the Octarians) at the time of the war since the Octarians were able to retreat to them; with those existing underground, it again seems like a very bad idea to flood the Inkling armies and simultaneously risk flooding the domes that are your last resort and/or place you want to lock the Inklings in after the war.

I think the first part is true enough: water is pretty dangerous for them. Still, that did not stop humans from using nuclear reactors in ships. They could have simply laid out rules of engagement that banned the use of WMDs like water, similar to the real life Hague Convention. They both agree not to use water-based weaponry as it would flood what land remained and would also wipe out large numbers on both sides.

 

[Globin347]

Well, at this point I doubt that water is as dangerous to inklings as nuclear radiation is to us (and the inklings), but that makes sense...

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

It's not uncommon for governments to shift attention away from domestic hardships onto a foreign threat. A big part of why North Korea acts the way it does is because that is the only way it can maintain any sort of legitimacy among its own people. China is in a similar situation with Taiwan. They Octarians appear to be suffering from an energy crisis. Considering they were defeated by the Inklings, it's a reasonable assumption that Octarian leadership blames the Inklings for any difficulties they are facing to convince their constituents that Inklings are the reason things are tough and not political or economic mismanagement on their part.

We do not know what caused the Energy Crisis and Deterioration of their Prison-Homes to begin with.
All we know is that the Inklings banished the Octarians inside the domes, due to the lost Great Turf War.

So in a sense, the Inklings are indeed to blame for their situation, based on the limited knowledge there is.
At least it looks that way.

One thing's for sure though, they did steal the Great Zapfish not for some revenge-driven plan, like Cuttlefish suggested, but to solve the Energy Crisis and probably rebuild their destroyed homes as well.
They are like the Twili from "Zelda: Twilight Princess".
They were imprisoned into a certain confinement-area.
But they managed to turn, what was supposed to be their eternal prison, into a fine home.


But I suggest we make a seperate thread for this, if we are going to talk government, culture and the like.
This has hardly anything to do with Biology.

 

[Globin347]

Whale, I'm sure revenge was part of it...

...mayhap I should build this new thread?

 

[Dolphoshi]

lol i was going for a biological stand point i don't know much about weapons besides staying out of their way, but as for natural defense it is very likely that a human would lose to an inkling simply because we humans are not good at defending ourselfs against other living things, we are not strong compaired to the inklings (they are able to lift a gun made of gold with minor movement loss), we have no natural defense (ie poisons, claws, or ink) while the inklings have the ink they carry, our senses aren't nearly as good as 90% of other living things while inklings have evolved from current day squids and unless they are in a dark cave sight tends to get better or stay the same,

the only hope that man would have is if their was a lake near by and to be able to throw the inkling in the water so it would drown (inklings don't seem to be torn apart by water)

 

[Globin347]

...You know, we've been somewhat been neglecting octolings here. If they are indeed not descended from the same Cephalopoda as the inklings, one would expect their biology to be at least a little different... Let's start with the ears.

Do octolings even have external ears? I think they do... I found a picture of an octoling wireframe trying to show the ears, but I couldn't make them out...

http://tamarinfrog.tumblr.com/post/129695481774/hey-tammy-i-was-messing-around-with-the-splatoon

 

[BlackZero]

Eh, nobody cares about Octolings anyway.

Do octolings even have external ears? I think they do... I found a picture of an octoling wireframe trying to show the ears, but I couldn't make them out...

Don't see why they would. Inkling "ears" are just the fins on the side of their squid heads. Octopuses use statocysts for hearing, which function differently from human ears.