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Discussing Inkling/Octoling Biology

Discussion in 'Regular Discussion' started by Paragon-Yoshi, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    To understand the fourth dimension bit, think of it like this: when an object sinks into the ink, it doesn't disappear. It is pulled into another dimension, beyond the three (spacial) dimensions we can perceive. but because we can't see into that dimension, the object just appears to vanish to our eyes.

    It's best to think of this sort of thing in terms of a two dimensional world... There's a great video on this. I'll try to find it.

    Edit: here it is.

    Note that I am not considering the time dimension here. It would still be there, but it doesn't' act any differently, and thus does not need to be described.
     
    #341 Globin347, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  2. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Also, each color of ink will harm all inklings not of that color, so each ink color would match up with a specific protein. Inklings can change their protein to match that of their teammates... I had assumed that the ink would need to have said proteins in order to not destroy organisms with that specific protein... But it looks like you are telling me that there could be several "types" of ink, each of which will destroy all life without a protein specific to that "type" of ink without the ink having said protein in itself.

    The concept is still the same, though.
     
  3. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    ...Herpfish, now that I read your post a little more carefully...

    It could be that the ink breaks down collagen... So, fill me in on this. If the ink breaks down collagen, would said ink still cause acid burns on a human?

    Also, I, at least, was working under the assumption that inklings could not liquefy completely. Squid form can't be totally liquid, because, as I said earlier on this very page, when you fall onto a grate, you still "hit" the grate, and lose all vertical momentum before draining through it.
     
  4. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    And as for the inkling's rapid evolution, I still say it's a combination of nuclear radiation and writers who have no idea how nuclear radiation works.
     
  5. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    We live in a 4th dimensional world, meaning our world has three spatial dimensions (X,Y, and Z axes) and a temporal dimension (spacetime). That means all objects in this world have a length, width, height, and change over a period of time. So, if we talk about Inklings as if they lived in our world, their Ink would serve as a gateway to a 5th dimension imperceptible to 4D beings. When the Octowhirl entered Inkling ink, Inklings would only see the parts of the Octowhirl that existed in 4D. The rest would disappear since they cannot perceive it, but the Octowhirl would still be structurally intact. This is how it behaves in the game.

    Bear in mind that a "dimension" in physics is not a whole other universe or parallel earth like we see in science fiction: it's simply another axis or reference point for determining the physical space an object can take up and move through. Superstring theorists that deal with models of other dimensions suggest that some can be nanoscopic and other can be quite large. The 5th dimension could be a relatively small circular dimension. The Octowhirl was presumably designed to operate in a four dimensional world. These properties may make it too large for the 5th dimension to contain, which could explain why it doesn't sink all the way into the ink and pass into the 5th dimension. Think of it like this:

    If you pass the "edge" of a circular dimension, you'll end up back where you started. The Octowhirl may be too big to fit in this dimension, thus part of it passes through the edge and goes back to the start. In this scenario, the Octowhirl is so large that it is essentially colliding with itself and unable to exist fully in the 5th dimension. Thus, part of it remains in the 4D world because it filled the 5th dimension to capacity.
     
    #345 BlackZero, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  6. HerpFish

    HerpFish Inkling

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    I'm going to try to break this down post by post.

    First, thanks to both @Globin347 and @BlackZero for the explanations on the fourth dimension. I had the basic idea of being unable to perceive its fourth dimension, but I could not explain it for the life of me. So, from what I understand, the ink is four-dimensional (it exists in five dimensions) which allows for solid, three-dimensional objects to slip into the space created by the extra dimension, but not everything. Would it be based on how integrated the ink is within the object in question? Since the inklings' cells likely have ink as a fluid matrix, this could explain how inklings (and other ink related creatures/objects) can use the fourth dimension at will without it being one of their physical dimensions.

    From continuing to read through the thread, I completely agree on the existence of a splat reflex. It would allow the inkling to evade a predator and keep its harder to replace organs intact. I also agree that the spawn point helps to speed up the process of reforming the body. I much prefer this over recreating a deceased inkling from scratch as that would also require the transferring of years of experience to the new inkling. Where I start to question things is the "soul". It very well could be the major organs compacted into a small space with the ink being four-dimensional, but I would like to at least try to explain the floating. What if part of the splat reflex was to pressurize ink within the body cavity, or even use the pressure within the hydrostatic skeleton (if there is one), to propel the "soul" to a safer place? It would be similar to the propulsion system used in the real life flying squids or in-game super jumps. The "soul" would then travel to the spawn point to recollect the scattered parts of its body or use organic material within the spawn point to recreate a body. Ink itself is already organic, so why not give it a cellular component?

    What I am proposing for the way that ink splats inklings is an enzyme. It acts on a specific substrate, likely collagen in this case, and wither destroys or, more likely, denatures it (if it is denatured, it could be repaired when the body reforms). Normally, this enzyme would run rampant and destroy any collagen it finds, even in the "host" inkling. This doesn't happen because it is allosterically inhibited by an identifier protein. Allosteric inhibition is when a molecule binds to an enzyme away from the active site to prevent the enzyme from working and can be reversed. When the color of an inkling changes, so does the identifier protein, according to what you have stated. I am also proposing that this enzyme also changes to be inhibited by the identifier protein that the inkling has. When the enzyme is with the specific identifier protein, the protein binds to the enzyme to prevent it from denaturing the collagen. With an enemy inkling, the correct identifier protein would be missing and the enzyme would proceed to denature the collagen. To answer your question, it should not "burn" a human, but since the human would most likely lack the identifier protein, any collagen present would be destroyed. Since collagen is about 30-40% of our bodies' protein, the results would still be disastrous, likely killing the human. (Say goodbye to your young-looking skin and functioning joints.)

    To expand on the paragraph above, the enzyme would have to be present in the ink without the identifier protein. Thus, the protein would likely exist in the skin. It would also likely be a signal to produce a certain kind of ink enzyme to allow for the offensive properties that are exhibited. The enzymes for each ink color would be very similar to each other so that it wouldn't require a new enzyme to be made and instead could just be switched to a different enzyme. This may also explain why they wait until a certain age to participate in battles, biologically at least. Their bodies could need time to mature to the point where the necessary proteins can be made quickly enough to battle for long periods of time.

    On the point of rapid evolution, I completely agree. It was likely a misunderstanding of the effects of nuclear radiation on mutation and evolution. Although, it could be possible for the inklings to evolve in that time period if their reproductive rate increased dramatically at some point, slowing down again later. It would be the same effect that bacteria experience. Since they reproduce so quickly, genetic mutations compound rapidly and produce rapid evolution, such as antibiotic resistance. Still highly unlikely, but it takes out the excuse that writers simply didn't know what they were doing.

    If I didn't answer anything, just tell me. Feel free to poke holes in any and all of this.
     
  7. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    ...I was actually joking about the radiation thing... We never came to a real conclusion on why the inklings were able to evolve so fast.
     
  8. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    The real reason (from a developer standpoint) is probably because the gamemakers didn't have a good understanding of how long it takes for a new species to evolve.
     
  9. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    The three spatial dimensions in our world stretch outward. You look up, our universe keeps going up. You look to the left, our universe keeps going left. The other six dimensions of String Theory are circular: they go one way for a while, but end up right where they started. Even if you looked in the direction of one of these dimensions, you wouldn't know it because all you'd see was the starting point. This is why we can't perceive the other dimensions: our eyes can see so far that we see past the edge of the other dimensions. This brings us back to the starting point, thus all we can see of the other dimensions is right where we're standing: where the X, Y, and Z axes intersect with the rest of the dimensions.

    String theory physicists limit the number of dimensions to 10 based on their observations of quantum mechanics. Mathematicians say there are infinite dimensions (remember, a dimension is simply an axis or direction). It's possible that each color of Ink is a separate dimension that is incompatible with Inklings with different colors, so they splat when they enter it. The Octowhirl's hull isn't organic material, thus it wouldn't react to the different color of ink?

    I stand by my secret scientific project theory. :cool:

    They probably didn't care. They threw together some reason why the main character is both humanoid and squid and figured people would go along with it. I mean, evolutionary biologists would probably have a field day with the different species of Pokemon that allegedly live on Earth in the Pokemon universe. Horses on fire? Little mice that can cause thunderstorms? Birds made out of steel? Tapirs that eat dreams for sustenance? These things make no sense if we're talking real world biology and evolution. They just ran with it for fun gameplay reasons.
     
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  10. HerpFish

    HerpFish Inkling

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    Are we talking some sort of organic "pocket dimension" here? Possibly with some sort of "immune response"? Or would this be more like wormholes? This is getting a bit outside my field of knowledge either way. I can biology at least. :/

    I still say that enzymes are a pretty good bet without getting crazy with dimensions. And would the different pigments be melanin derivatives?

    I mean... yeah. It just sounds so much more interesting when you describe it with the lack of understanding of nuclear waste.

    I'm pretty sure that tapirs have always eaten dreams for sustenance. What else could that nose be for? It's really the purple rat that defies evolutionary logic. Why would it evolve purple fur? Did humans start making more purple products and throwing them into the environment giving purple rattatas a better chance at hiding from predators?
     
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  11. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    I suppose that would be one way of putting it. I think the "autoimmune" thing would be a product of the ink itself rather than the dimension, if we assume that ink is simply an extension of an Inkling's body. It may consider ink of another color as a foreign body and cause the Inkling's immune system to overreact. Kinda like allergies only messier and fatal, I suppose.

    To be fair, purple is very effective at attracting mates. Just ask these people:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. HerpFish

    HerpFish Inkling

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    Pure logic. That explains why my dissection rat(tata) is where it is. He simply couldn't attract a mate because he is yellow, opposite purple on the color wheel. Poor guy.

    More on topic...
    The ink is an extension of the body and a natural product of the inklings, yet it has another dimension that the inklings themselves could never perceive. Does that mean that the ink is in a symbiotic relationship with the inklings? If so, would it also be the first evidence of life that exists in higher dimensions? Is the ink secretly controlling the inklings? (Think Pikmin endings.)

    The only problem with the allergies idea is that the ink colors are likely similar enough that all ink would cause the reaction at that point. Any time that an inkling produced ink, its splat reflex would activate or its body would start breaking itself down. Very messy. Very fatal.

    I think this tread is going in the right direction.
     
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  13. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    I personally don't see the problem with adorable little squid people exploding at random. It's a small price to pay for access to another dimension. Since Squids lay thousands of eggs and presumably don't have any natural predators at this point, I'd say we're looking at a self-correcting system here. It's literally win-win.

    Who knows? Maybe the splat games are a population control mechanism? Maybe they don't come back at all. You just move on to a new squid who takes on your name, picks up your gear, and carries on the fight. I mean, a very reliable source in game says Inklings have a simple predatory brain and can only think about fashion and battle.
     
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  14. HerpFish

    HerpFish Inkling

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    I never said I wouldn't enjoy inklings randomly exploding. Entertaining, a bit morbid, and with sound biological background, I see no reason that they don't explode randomly at this very moment. (Unless you're playing online, then some may explode and never come back.)

    In my mind, you just confirmed that the ink has all of the control here. It doesn't enjoy needing the inkling host, it despises them as they just aren't fresh enough to exist in another dimension. In a form of revenge, they create the splat games, as you called them, leading to a fun way for them to destroy they're hosts without alerting the hosts to their control. The ink can simply call upon a new host and continue battling. Quite the win-win for the ink, if I do say so myself.

    Just as the Pikmin control Olimar, the ink controls the inklings. (The octolings are divergent and have realized they were under control. They are the unsung heroes of Splatoon.)
     
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  15. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    Indeed. I feel we are truly getting to the heart of the matter. And yes, Octolings did nothing wrong. They are like the resistance from The Matrix. They unplugged themselves from the machine, crying out "no gods, no masters" in a triumphant gurgle that echoed with resolve. Isn't it ironic that Octolings escaped their ink overlord, and octopodes are escape artists IRL?
     
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  16. HerpFish

    HerpFish Inkling

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    Isn't it a bit funny that we were brainwashed to believe that the inklings were the protagonists of the post-apocalyptic future? The octolings would have greater brain-power, so they would clearly be dominant. It was likely a single ruler that caused the Great Turf Wars, where the Octarians fought back by creating the faulty plugs that would be their demise. This assumes that the Great Turf Wars were anything mire than inkling, or ink, propaganda created by the ink to cause the inklings to naturally begin to rebel against the Ocatarians.

    The irony is perfect. The escape artists are framed following their heroic escape and shunned from a society where they are in the right. The only way the inklings could hope to beat the Octarians would be to have help from another plane of existence. Splatoon is a conspiracy.

    Another conspiracy: If you try to type out Splatoon, it tries to autocorrect to Platoon for me. The Octarians are sending a message.
     
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  17. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Umm... I'm not sure how much of this you guys are taking seriously...

    ... so, the Ink needs an inkling host because it evaporates wheb exposed to air?

    And are we saying that foreign ink splats inklings because of a biochemical reaction,
    or because of some string theory ubercomplicated Occam's-razor-can-go-to (I should probably say "heck" here, just to be safe) phenomena?
     
    #357 Globin347, Feb 16, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  18. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    Also, I was under the impression that the three main spacial dimensions do loop back on themselves, but that space is so vast that light could never have time to travel all the way back to the starting point.
     
  19. Globin347

    Globin347 Inkling Cadet

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    ...hey... does that mean that there's a big line of squids in octo valley waiting to take their turn fighting in the single player campaign?
     
  20. BlackZero

    BlackZero Inkling Commander

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    Yep. Clearly the Octarians are the chosen ones. Inklings are puppets of a malevolent sentient ooze that can warp spacetime.

    The string theory stuff explains the dimensional aspects of ink. The splatting is purely biological. Honestly, the string theory explanation is the more Occam's Razor friendly one unless you can provide an explanation of how ink can melt or dissolve metal substances when it falls in, then the metal completely reforms with no structural changes when it gets out.

    I suppose this is possible, but that would require an edge or threshold of the universe for an object to cross. So far, we haven't found one.

    Yep.
     

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