Discussing Inkling/Octoling Biology
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aceofscarabs
Inkling Fleet Admiral
Flareth
Inkling Fleet Admiral
Oh hey, this thread's been Lazarus taxon'd. Sweet!
To paraphrase, it's a sort of balancing structure, in which the statolith (that purple sphere in the diagram) rolls up against the little hairs whenever the creature gets thrown off-balance, which lets the brain know that it must correct itself.
That page doesn't say anything about it hearing, though, but the page for cephalopods in general provides a link to this BBC article, which shows that they can and supposes that it (the statocyst) lets them hear because fish & prawns use theirs in a similar way.
That article also gave a difference between our ears and the statocysts: we can amplify any sounds we recieve, but they can't. So their hearing is rather limited.
...that was an awful pun, I'm sorry.not
Does this help?
To paraphrase, it's a sort of balancing structure, in which the statolith (that purple sphere in the diagram) rolls up against the little hairs whenever the creature gets thrown off-balance, which lets the brain know that it must correct itself.
That page doesn't say anything about it hearing, though, but the page for cephalopods in general provides a link to this BBC article, which shows that they can and supposes that it (the statocyst) lets them hear because fish & prawns use theirs in a similar way.
That article also gave a difference between our ears and the statocysts: we can amplify any sounds we recieve, but they can't. So their hearing is rather limited.
...that was an awful pun, I'm sorry.
Huh... But given that Inklings communicate via speech, like we do, I think it's safe to assume that inkling hearing is considerably better than the hearing of an oceanic squid. Otherwise, Inklings would probably communicate by changing colors, like oceanic squid.
Flareth
Inkling Fleet Admiral
It's possible that the statocyst underwent a path of convergent evolution, changing up bit by bit until they could function as ears more properly.
In that case, I wonder what became of that "color-changing-as-communication" feature. Maybe it's only used to... how do I put it... when an Inkling's in a Turf War, and s/he changes the color of her/his hair to show what team he/she's on. Something like that.
Although that probably would have also gone through some serious adjustment in order to be able to change the Inkling's ink color as well.
In that case, I wonder what became of that "color-changing-as-communication" feature. Maybe it's only used to... how do I put it... when an Inkling's in a Turf War, and s/he changes the color of her/his hair to show what team he/she's on. Something like that.
Although that probably would have also gone through some serious adjustment in order to be able to change the Inkling's ink color as well.
To be fair, The inkling's ink would already had to undergo serious changes, since it evolved into an acid-like substance capable of distinguishing different individuals and only harming inklings deemed "enemies".
And, of course, it extends into another dimension.
And, of course, it extends into another dimension.
aceofscarabs
Inkling Fleet Admiral
Still lurking here.
Flareth
Inkling Fleet Admiral
Oi, I'm alive and well. Can't exactly say the same about this thread, though. XÞ
I'll have to look over the whole thing to make sure, but I think we've covered just about everything (barring what an Inkling's innards look like; which I'd be more than happy to sketch out).
I'll have to look over the whole thing to make sure, but I think we've covered just about everything (barring what an Inkling's innards look like; which I'd be more than happy to sketch out).
Hmm... Well, I just remembered something. I was messing around on Mahi-Mahi resort (on recon, of course), and I noticed that there is (before the water goes down) a slope which gradually lowers into the pool. If you go down slowly, you;ll find that there is a specific point at which the inkling splats (I think it was around knee to waist deep).
So, depending on where exactly the inkling splats, I think this would provide evidence for whether inklings dissolve in water or simply can't swim. I'll have to check out that stage again in order to find the exact point; I can't remember.
So, depending on where exactly the inkling splats, I think this would provide evidence for whether inklings dissolve in water or simply can't swim. I'll have to check out that stage again in order to find the exact point; I can't remember.
...And while we're at it, the squid form can't be completely liquid, since falling onto a grate in squid form still results in you hitting the grate and loosing momentum before falling through... although I don't know if that changes anything.
Flareth
Inkling Fleet Admiral
A water threshold, eh?
Well, for an Inkling to be splatted, it has to be hit with a certain amount of enemy ink (100.0p, I think). Seems like it would work the same with water, then.
Well, for an Inkling to be splatted, it has to be hit with a certain amount of enemy ink (100.0p, I think). Seems like it would work the same with water, then.
HerpFish
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Just stumbled across this thread after not visiting this site for a while, but I have a few ideas on how they are able to survive after "disintegration" and how they can pass through grates. Sorry if you already have answers to some of this, but I don't feel like reading through all 8+ pages.
To start, a bit of a biology lesson. Organisms are classified into groups based on their organization, including protoplasmic, cellular, cell-tissue, tissue-organ, and organ-system (we fall into the latter). Everything beyond protoplasmic is multicellular with different amounts of "cooperation" between different cells. The one that I would like to focus on is the cellular level. In this level, there are groups of cells with different functions that generally work together without organizing into more complex tissues. Sponges are the most common example of this level. The cells of a sponge can be separated from one another and survive, and if they are brought back together, will rejoin and survive as a single organism again. They may not be able to do anything too complex, but they have survived for millions of years.
In short, even if a sponge (or other organism of the cellular level of organization) is torn apart, as long as the cells are not too badly damaged, the organism can recombine and survive.
Let's say that Inklings/Octolings can work this way on some level. While in their humanoid form, they have a higher level of organization, most likely the organ-system level as with most complex organisms. This prevents them from being able to split apart to pass through grates and why they can't hide in a thin layer of ink on the ground. They have better control, even allowing for the complex movements for firing weapons or the coordination required for jumping so well. When in the squid form, I propose that the different tissues and organs "devolve" to the cellular level of organization. This means that their cells can freely split and rejoin as needed. They are still able to work together, but not in as complex of ways, which would give them a reason to be in their humanoid forms at most times. When hiding in ink, the cells could separate to form a thin layer, allowing them to hide in just a small amount of ink. To fall through a grate, the cells could temporarily separate to allow the body to pass through.
This could also explain the melting seen when they transform. The cells are splitting from tissues and organs into a simpler structure, becoming more loosely bound and removing excess structures.
The ink itself could act as a sort of fluid matrix to house the cells and to allow for easier recombination, such as when they are splatted. This could be forced splitting caused by excess water or enemy ink. The enemy ink could act as a repulsive agent that cause the cells to be forced apart from one another in higher quantities, explaining the threshold at 100. The water could be too "loose" (I can't think of a better word right now) that allows the cells to split freely whereas the ink could be "thick" enough to keep the cells at least near each other. Once the cells have split, the spawn point could act as a point that the cells "know" to return to so that they can rejoin to form the whole organism again.
Lots of hypothesizing in there, but there's some good factual basis as well. Again, if there are better ideas already presented for some of this, I apologize. Something to do on Singles' Awareness Day.
To start, a bit of a biology lesson. Organisms are classified into groups based on their organization, including protoplasmic, cellular, cell-tissue, tissue-organ, and organ-system (we fall into the latter). Everything beyond protoplasmic is multicellular with different amounts of "cooperation" between different cells. The one that I would like to focus on is the cellular level. In this level, there are groups of cells with different functions that generally work together without organizing into more complex tissues. Sponges are the most common example of this level. The cells of a sponge can be separated from one another and survive, and if they are brought back together, will rejoin and survive as a single organism again. They may not be able to do anything too complex, but they have survived for millions of years.
In short, even if a sponge (or other organism of the cellular level of organization) is torn apart, as long as the cells are not too badly damaged, the organism can recombine and survive.
Let's say that Inklings/Octolings can work this way on some level. While in their humanoid form, they have a higher level of organization, most likely the organ-system level as with most complex organisms. This prevents them from being able to split apart to pass through grates and why they can't hide in a thin layer of ink on the ground. They have better control, even allowing for the complex movements for firing weapons or the coordination required for jumping so well. When in the squid form, I propose that the different tissues and organs "devolve" to the cellular level of organization. This means that their cells can freely split and rejoin as needed. They are still able to work together, but not in as complex of ways, which would give them a reason to be in their humanoid forms at most times. When hiding in ink, the cells could separate to form a thin layer, allowing them to hide in just a small amount of ink. To fall through a grate, the cells could temporarily separate to allow the body to pass through.
This could also explain the melting seen when they transform. The cells are splitting from tissues and organs into a simpler structure, becoming more loosely bound and removing excess structures.
The ink itself could act as a sort of fluid matrix to house the cells and to allow for easier recombination, such as when they are splatted. This could be forced splitting caused by excess water or enemy ink. The enemy ink could act as a repulsive agent that cause the cells to be forced apart from one another in higher quantities, explaining the threshold at 100. The water could be too "loose" (I can't think of a better word right now) that allows the cells to split freely whereas the ink could be "thick" enough to keep the cells at least near each other. Once the cells have split, the spawn point could act as a point that the cells "know" to return to so that they can rejoin to form the whole organism again.
Lots of hypothesizing in there, but there's some good factual basis as well. Again, if there are better ideas already presented for some of this, I apologize. Something to do on Singles' Awareness Day.
That's largely the conclusion we came to, except that we decided that the major internal organs remained intact throughout the transformation. If you go back through the thread, you'll see a lot of posts about sea cucumbers, which can liquefy their bodies in the manner described above.
As for how the intact internal organs can move through grates... Well, the ink already extends into the fourth dimension, so...
Also, the reason enemy ink splats inklings is because it is an acid-like substance meant to destroy organic matter. It doesn't hurt "friendly inklings" because the ink contains identifier proteins that mach up to similar proteins in the inklings themselves. The ink won't destroy any organic matter that contains the same identifier proteins.
Of course, inklings can change their proteins to match those of their teammates.
As for how the intact internal organs can move through grates... Well, the ink already extends into the fourth dimension, so...
Also, the reason enemy ink splats inklings is because it is an acid-like substance meant to destroy organic matter. It doesn't hurt "friendly inklings" because the ink contains identifier proteins that mach up to similar proteins in the inklings themselves. The ink won't destroy any organic matter that contains the same identifier proteins.
Of course, inklings can change their proteins to match those of their teammates.
HerpFish
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What was the conclusion with regards to the reformation of the body when splatted then? The specific protein identifiers is an interesting idea, but I feel as though at that point, the cells themselves would be destroyed, preventing complete reconstruction of the body. In blood cells, the protein identifiers are used as a means to identify non-self cells that enter the body, such as bacteria, that eventually leads to destruction of the foreign body, leaving nothing intact. This theory, while fairly sound, seems to ignore that possibility from this summary (I'll go back through the thread eventually). From what you wrote, it sounds like an enzyme that would have allosteric inhibition from the identifier proteins of friendly inklings that prevent the destruction of those with the correct identifier. Would the ink itself really need to have the identifier proteins then?
I am quite mad at myself for not knowing about the sea cucumber liquefaction part as I am studying marine biology right now. From what I have read on this, it is neurological control over collagen in the tissues that allows this. It seems as though the cells themselves never really separate, though. Some articles even describe that the near total liquefaction of certain species would likely cause death, and it seems like this more complete liquefaction is what inklings are able to do. I'm not really sure how to amend this outside of complete separation of the cells with some sort of advanced, specific signaling that would follow, likely hormonal or chemical and related to the identifier proteins. This really pushes it though, whereas the sea cucumber bit at least has a natural example.
For the organs, could it be possible for them to simply split while going through a grate? It could work in a similar way as to endo/exocytosis where the walls of the organs form a "vesicle" that surround the part of the grate, allowing them to pass through and remain intact. This may not work for the heart and circulatory system, but other invertebrates may have a solution for that. Most invertebrates (cephalopods being that only mollusks that don't) have open circulatory systems with hemolymph instead of blood. In these systems, the blood leaves the vessels and floods the tissues to provide them with oxygen. If inklings were to have reverted to an open circulatory system, at least in squid form, then the issue of the blood vessels being blocked while passing through grates is resolved, but not the heart. Either the heart could stop beating for the short time it takes or instead of using an open circulatory system, it could revert to simple diffusion again. While inefficient, the inklings only exist in this form for a short amount of time (squid form). Both options are a stretch, but they could also offer options to leave the fourth dimension away from the organs. It might not be a good idea for part of the inkling to begin existing in another dimension while the rest doesn't.
For the ink in the fourth dimension bit, are you saying that the ink itself is a four-dimensional object? From my understanding of the dimensions (which I admit can be lacking), three-dimensional objects/beings (like us) exist in four dimensions. So for the ink to have a fourth dimension to help explain the organs' phenomenon, it would exist in five dimension? (Not trying to refute anything with this one. I just think its really cool.)
Overall, the conclusions described seem well put together. Sorry if some of it sounds like nitpicking, it's not meant to be offensive in any way if it comes off that way. I'll be sure to read through the rest of this thread as well. Yay for walls of text.
(Big) Edit: What if aforementioned enzyme breaks down collagen if the squids liquefy in a similar manner to sea cucumbers? This could explain why enemy ink readily liquefies inklings while it takes a short transformation time to do it by choice. Food for thought. Also, after a bit of reading the previous pages, I support the idea of a modified hydrostatic skeleton, possibly combined with the evolutionary remnants of the pen, which could have become primarily made of collagen. For the rapid evolution aspect, it could be a combination of the theory of punctuated equilibrium and hazardous waste released into the environment by humans. I mean, if rapidly changing environments lead to rapid evolution, I think a globe-encompassing flood fits the bill.
I am quite mad at myself for not knowing about the sea cucumber liquefaction part as I am studying marine biology right now. From what I have read on this, it is neurological control over collagen in the tissues that allows this. It seems as though the cells themselves never really separate, though. Some articles even describe that the near total liquefaction of certain species would likely cause death, and it seems like this more complete liquefaction is what inklings are able to do. I'm not really sure how to amend this outside of complete separation of the cells with some sort of advanced, specific signaling that would follow, likely hormonal or chemical and related to the identifier proteins. This really pushes it though, whereas the sea cucumber bit at least has a natural example.
For the organs, could it be possible for them to simply split while going through a grate? It could work in a similar way as to endo/exocytosis where the walls of the organs form a "vesicle" that surround the part of the grate, allowing them to pass through and remain intact. This may not work for the heart and circulatory system, but other invertebrates may have a solution for that. Most invertebrates (cephalopods being that only mollusks that don't) have open circulatory systems with hemolymph instead of blood. In these systems, the blood leaves the vessels and floods the tissues to provide them with oxygen. If inklings were to have reverted to an open circulatory system, at least in squid form, then the issue of the blood vessels being blocked while passing through grates is resolved, but not the heart. Either the heart could stop beating for the short time it takes or instead of using an open circulatory system, it could revert to simple diffusion again. While inefficient, the inklings only exist in this form for a short amount of time (squid form). Both options are a stretch, but they could also offer options to leave the fourth dimension away from the organs. It might not be a good idea for part of the inkling to begin existing in another dimension while the rest doesn't.
For the ink in the fourth dimension bit, are you saying that the ink itself is a four-dimensional object? From my understanding of the dimensions (which I admit can be lacking), three-dimensional objects/beings (like us) exist in four dimensions. So for the ink to have a fourth dimension to help explain the organs' phenomenon, it would exist in five dimension? (Not trying to refute anything with this one. I just think its really cool.)
Overall, the conclusions described seem well put together. Sorry if some of it sounds like nitpicking, it's not meant to be offensive in any way if it comes off that way. I'll be sure to read through the rest of this thread as well. Yay for walls of text.
(Big) Edit: What if aforementioned enzyme breaks down collagen if the squids liquefy in a similar manner to sea cucumbers? This could explain why enemy ink readily liquefies inklings while it takes a short transformation time to do it by choice. Food for thought. Also, after a bit of reading the previous pages, I support the idea of a modified hydrostatic skeleton, possibly combined with the evolutionary remnants of the pen, which could have become primarily made of collagen. For the rapid evolution aspect, it could be a combination of the theory of punctuated equilibrium and hazardous waste released into the environment by humans. I mean, if rapidly changing environments lead to rapid evolution, I think a globe-encompassing flood fits the bill.
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Aki's video doesn't answer the questions we're trying to ask here, although it is informative.
And yes, I am saying that the ink itself is a four dimensional object.
Anyway, the origin of the inter dimensional ink idea has nothing to do with going through grates. I first got the Idea from thinking of the ink in splatoon like the graffiti in super Mario sunshine. At first, I couldn't support it, but then someone else brought up the octowhirl boss battle.
In said battle, the massive, metal octowhirl mecha will sink into your ink, even though it's just a thin covering of a solid surface, and should be an inch deep at most. Similarly, when you walk into enemy ink, your inkling clearly sinks into the enemy ink at least to the heels, when once again, it should be just a thin covering on a solid surface. The dimensional ink also provides an explanation of how inklings carry Dynamo rollers and hydra splatlings in squid form, when both weapons are bigger than the squids themselves.
(I guess hammer space could explain the latter, but the dimension ink is already in place to explain the former issues).
Anyway, about the splatting...
The closest we came to explaining that was this:
When an inkling is covered in enemy ink, their body activates an"splat reflex". Their major organs contract into a tiny pseudo-body, and the inkling launches itself out of it's own skin- this is the little "soul" you see when you splat an inkling. Apparently, with all those organs contracted into such a small space, the inkling becomes so dense, it floats!
...actually, it probably uses the dimensional ink to achieve this... Somehow.
Anyway, the inkling then hides in a little pool of ink, and desperately tries to regenerate it's body before it is eaten or dies of exhaustion... Unless a spawn point is nearby. These spawn points allow inklings to regenerate in seconds, with no sign of exhaustion.
Either that, or the inkling dies, and the spawn point builds an identical inkling from scratch.
And yes, I am saying that the ink itself is a four dimensional object.
Anyway, the origin of the inter dimensional ink idea has nothing to do with going through grates. I first got the Idea from thinking of the ink in splatoon like the graffiti in super Mario sunshine. At first, I couldn't support it, but then someone else brought up the octowhirl boss battle.
In said battle, the massive, metal octowhirl mecha will sink into your ink, even though it's just a thin covering of a solid surface, and should be an inch deep at most. Similarly, when you walk into enemy ink, your inkling clearly sinks into the enemy ink at least to the heels, when once again, it should be just a thin covering on a solid surface. The dimensional ink also provides an explanation of how inklings carry Dynamo rollers and hydra splatlings in squid form, when both weapons are bigger than the squids themselves.
(I guess hammer space could explain the latter, but the dimension ink is already in place to explain the former issues).
Anyway, about the splatting...
The closest we came to explaining that was this:
When an inkling is covered in enemy ink, their body activates an"splat reflex". Their major organs contract into a tiny pseudo-body, and the inkling launches itself out of it's own skin- this is the little "soul" you see when you splat an inkling. Apparently, with all those organs contracted into such a small space, the inkling becomes so dense, it floats!
...actually, it probably uses the dimensional ink to achieve this... Somehow.
Anyway, the inkling then hides in a little pool of ink, and desperately tries to regenerate it's body before it is eaten or dies of exhaustion... Unless a spawn point is nearby. These spawn points allow inklings to regenerate in seconds, with no sign of exhaustion.
Either that, or the inkling dies, and the spawn point builds an identical inkling from scratch.
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