Goodbye Old Meta (Patch 2.7.0 is Insane!)

[swamphox]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but if you use at least 3 mains and 2 subs of special saver on a 40% loss weapon you will lose none of your special gauge, I can see this becoming extremely useful for some weapons, like the areospray, as you'll be able to get inkstrike small the time, although a pretty big negative is that you are to invest a lot of ability slots in it.

Theres always tenacity. Helps a lot

 

[Award]

i do agree the burst bombs have become stronger cause of the radius buff o3o
carbons do consume much less ink every swing but still not difficult to deal with. far from op
i'm still seeing many dynamos, just gotta play differently, add some swim speed if the only speed nerf bugs you
going custom eliter, add swim speed and special charge up.
and saying you got two S ranks is kinda meh. cause of the inflations of S ranks
http://www.evanmiller.org/splatoons-ranking-system-is-still-broken.html

I read that article....it's interesting....and touching on two things...but it's also out of date. And I think somewhat incomplete as to some of the finer details. When you wrote that, A+ still played with S and S+ (and similarly S and S+ still played with A+ - and B+ and A- were still grouped together.

However some of what they do still is bad, if not worse. I haven't experienced a glut at A+. Anecdotally I've found A+ punishing in that every time I'd get to upper A+ I'd get shot back down to A or A- or B+ in what seemed like a "controlled" losing streak. Many people seem to focus on disproportions in S and yet it's the A's that seem horribly imbalanced. Even with the current patch a big part of the problem is there is ZERO difference in difficulty in A-, A, and A+ matches. They are all randomly mashed together. In many ways A- is harder to escape than A+ due to the high liklihood of incompetent teammates there, but in reality they're all one big mashup. The only difference between an A- and an A+ is they've won more "A tier" matches, not that those matches are harder.

I'd say S fighting only S has pushed more people out of S since 2.6, BUT that means that players better than the normal for A's have now been pushed into the A's. Upward promotion has never seemed to be the flaw of the game, and the overly punishing scoring systems that force you to tread water against what seems like system controlled losing streaks by poor matchmaking has broken things to the point that the people in S/S+ are the people who can carry entire losing teams on a regular basis. A group I'd say should really make up S+ exclusively. But...then you have the alts, where the S+ tier players are ALSO in the A's and B's. Which then suppresses everyone else.

I don't mean to bash your study, I really like it - you should join in on some of the matchmaking conversations we've had around here :) That's the kind of stuff we've been trying to get into. But I should also say it's missing some details in terms of some less than genuine seeming underpinnings in matchmaking. I'm no S+ and never will be. I am a solid S and can often win against S's (but lose against S+'s...though not always.) yet in the A's I can seldom win anything because the teams are simply imbalanced. I really see almost no difference between the A's and S's with the exception that the A's seem to have more wholly incompetents.

Which gets back to the core issue of the game. A punative scoring system that drags good players DOWN for losses that were not their fault will accumulate more of them at lower ranks who will then make it difficult for real players of that rank to move on when they should. While the upper ranks are filled in with players that are far TOO good for their rank because they got there by having to basically win 1v4 most of the time - the opposite of what the team game aimed to promote. Which technically all goes back for the need for a progressive ladder that favors promotion with resets. But since the game is so broken, I'll just take my S accounts, squad, and stick with it and not look back. it's a catch 22. The ranks will ALWAYS be broken unless they're determined by individual performance (and I don't mean having to carry whole teams) - and yet the nature of the game precludes doing so.

But a system that gives and takes identical points for win/lose is a DOWNWARD favoring system, not an upward favoring system. It's easier to lose than to win, and outside circumstances always favor losing versus winning. Every time the system seems to assign me to a losing streak I can lose points in 20 minutes due to BS matches that are all but unwinnable that takes 3 hours to make back through hard fought matches, if I get lucky enough to get matches that balanced. Then again as has been observed, not everyone seems to get the "assigned losing streaks" that others seem to get. It seems to affect some specific people - I'm guessing based on something in play style throwing off the "player skill" metrics (the real ones used behind the scenes for matchmaking purposes.)

I also have doubts about that paper showing, basically, "unless you're really bad you end up in A". I'm not sure that's true at present. I was able to carry my way into mid-B+ in a matter of 2-3 hours. Then B+ started getting a lot of BS matches against obvious alts and took days to slog through. Then I shot to upper A in a day. And ever since then it's been long-term never ending losing streaks. From your chart, S isn't really unbalanced. You're showing A-, A, A+ as three separate ranks, but they aren't. Which is part of the problem. They're mixed as a single rank. So by your chart 35% is "B general", 41% A general" 20% S. That doesn't seem like much of a glut anywhere. I think the real problem is that C is just a tutorial and not a rank, but S is still a difficult achievement considering the tiny number at S+. You're still talking about 20% of the splatoon player base.

There's more to the matchmaker than just the points system, and it makes it worse. But the points system IS bad.



BTW, I saw your in-game name in a screenshot from you in the bragging thread and I'm pretty sure I've played with/against you sometime in the past week or two either in squads or TW :) I never know what clan is what, and I've played a LOT of people from NS* over the past few months so I don't remember who is who but I'm pretty sure you're among them :) (No doubt you wiped the floor with me, though :( :P )

 

[Nero86]

Heh, the ironic thing is, for my play, I feel burst bombs are STRONGER now. Because of the nerf I had to leave custom eliter behind much like the early dynamo nerfs forced you to leave dynamo behind, but I found I can still use it in the vanilla flavor now....and I find burst bombs far more effective than pre-patch. I never spammed them, I aimed them. And aimed, they're quite deadly now and more lag resistant. So in "nerfing" the vanilla's bombinb, they made it a stronger weapon (and crippled custom which nobody was complaining about.) Kind of like what they did to .96.

Hmm, it does seem like many are clueless....though it also seems that it's mostly MY team that is clueless...the other team generally doesn't seem to be (though they're seldom excellent, etiher, they're just excellent compared to my teammates.) What I HAVE seen is hordes of splash-o-matics and nzaps and the now seriously OP carbon rollers....and usually more of them on the other side. It's hard to say if it's adapatation to the weapons though if it's affecting one team more. I'm a player with TWO S rank accounts, and for me to, on my third alt lose consistently down from upper A to almost B+ with scarce few wins between....something is amiss now.

It also seems like there's too many bombs. Most of my deaths have come from swimming forward and a bomb is thrown right in my way, and I can't reverse fast enough to avoid it under momentum.....some rounds that gets me 8, 9 times.

If you aim and not normally use as a panic button it makes sense things are better for you now. But that's not what I normally see, and I'm rarely dying on burst bombs as I did befor. Looks like this sub will require a little more effort than before, most people will surely find something else to toy with.

I agree, something's different on Carbon Rollers, they don't seem to be like past patch. Maybe something with their range changed? I can't tell.

 

[Leronne]

If you aim and not normally use as a panic button it makes sense things are better for you now. But that's not what I normally see, and I'm rarely dying on burst bombs as I did befor. Looks like this sub will require a little more effort than before, most people will surely find something else to toy with.

I agree, something's different on Carbon Rollers, they don't seem to be like past patch. Maybe something with their range changed? I can't tell.

Only their ink consumption was changed. The range on the carbon roller is still the same.

 

[SkyBound]

I feel like the only one, that thinks e litres got buffed

 

[Award]

If you aim and not normally use as a panic button it makes sense things are better for you now. But that's not what I normally see, and I'm rarely dying on burst bombs as I did befor. Looks like this sub will require a little more effort than before, most people will surely find something else to toy with.

I agree, something's different on Carbon Rollers, they don't seem to be like past patch. Maybe something with their range changed? I can't tell.

It seems that way, which is interesting. I never did the "panic button eliter" thing - I have always used burst bombs highly offensively, both on eliter and on carbon roller. Their penchant for NOT killing and requiring a third was very annoying before. The bigger ink spread and higher damage output makes them a LOT more offensive now and I usually kill with two when I'm aiming to kill (other times I use them as ink traps and take the second shot with the gun like a slow bamboozler mk 3.)

yeah, they didn't change range, they just give it INFINITE ink via, basically 2-3 free ink saver mains built in. But it somehow does feel MORE dangerous than before. Not just due to burst bomb buffing.

I feel like the only one, that thinks e litres got buffed

At least for my play style, vanilla surely did. But Custom truly got nerfed. Some like the play style of the new custom I presume because they'd prefer to be rear perch snipers while I find in solo that rarely works out well and I need to ALSO be on the tower etc. But for an offensive bomb users, eliter did kind of get buffed. Which makes me wonder: how many people WEREN"T properly using burst bombs? :)

 

[Kowai Yume]

Came back from a month hiatus, sees my mains hasn't be touched or received a buff. They feel so more powerful now.

 

[Leronne]

Can we talk about how freaking great the (neo) splash-o-matic is now? No seriously. The increased range, accuracy and shot velocity makes this weapon so much better. Now for the most part, most of what i say in this post is mostly based on the neo variant, which i find to be the better one.

First of, accuracy or spread as the patch calls. This was obviously increased to compliment the new range, but it also really helps with right-side peeking.

Second, shot velocity. This being increased means shots will reach opponents faster. Not only does it make shots hitting your opponent more consistent, but it can also splat opponents faster than before. Which is a really good thing. You see, normally how it works is the shorter a weapons range, the faster it splats. But the thing about the the splash is that it kills slower than quite a few shooters that outrange them. Mainly splattershot, .52 and .96 and the n-zap kills in as many shots and has better strafing, so it essentially outclassed the splash as well. Now i don't know how much faster the splash splashes (heh) now, but it's definitely noticeable for me.

And now finally, range. This is the best buff the splash could've ever gotten. I have gotten so many splats because of this buff. I can actually go toe to toe with the splattershot, jr, carbon, splat roller and octobrush and even the dynamo to some extent. Before i could barely even touch these, and even if i could, it usually ends up in a trade that is not beneficial to my team, or me getting splatted because the weapon has a faster ttk. Most of my matches i ended up with bad k/d's, but now, i've been getting better k/d's than my teammates for a lot of matches. Beating out splattershots, octobrushes and even .96 deco's.

And now burst bombs, probably the reason the splash was buffed at all. It took a while, but i finally got used to the burst bomb change, and i must say, i love it. Not only am i not spamming these things anymore and running out of ink in crucial moments, but the increased ink spread makes opponents easier to splat because they get stuck in the ink. I went 17/6 today. A K/D i could only dream of with the splash. Thank you so much splatoon devs, this is the best buff ever :D

 

[Award]

Can we talk about how freaking great the (neo) splash-o-matic is now? No seriously. The increased range, accuracy and shot velocity makes this weapon so much better. Now for the most part, most of what i say in this post is mostly based on the neo variant, which i find to be the better one.

First of, accuracy or spread as the patch calls. This was obviously increased to compliment the new range, but it also really helps with right-side peeking.

Second, shot velocity. This being increased means shots will reach opponents faster. Not only does it make shots hitting your opponent more consistent, but it can also splat opponents faster than before. Which is a really good thing. You see, normally how it works is the shorter a weapons range, the faster it splats. But the thing about the the splash is that it kills slower than quite a few shooters that outrange them. Mainly splattershot, .52 and .96 and the n-zap kills in as many shots and has better strafing, so it essentially outclassed the splash as well. Now i don't know how much faster the splash splashes (heh) now, but it's definitely noticeable for me.

And now finally, range. This is the best buff the splash could've ever gotten. I have gotten so many splats because of this buff. I can actually go toe to toe with the splattershot, jr, carbon, splat roller and octobrush and even the dynamo to some extent. Before i could barely even touch these, and even if i could, it usually ends up in a trade that is not beneficial to my team, or me getting splatted because the weapon has a faster ttk. Most of my matches i ended up with bad k/d's, but now, i've been getting better k/d's than my teammates for a lot of matches. Beating out splattershots, octobrushes and even .96 deco's.

And now burst bombs, probably the reason the splash was buffed at all. It took a while, but i finally got used to the burst bomb change, and i must say, i love it. Not only am i not spamming these things anymore and running out of ink in crucial moments, but the increased ink spread makes opponents easier to splat because they get stuck in the ink. I went 17/6 today. I K/D i could only dream of with the splaah. Thank you so much splatoon devs, this is the best buff ever :D

Funny you'd post this yesterday just when I went to try it out (after getting completely infurated by losing streaks) I, too love the changes. It was my original main even before luna long ago and I'd abandoned it but along with the new wonderful burst bombs, this weapon is so fantastic now. I dislike playing midrange shooters...but when I go meta because the matchmaker SUCKS it will be this weapon I use :)

 

[Floating Eyeball]

It's small compared to the buffs it got, but I'm a bit sad about the Seeker/Kraken patch. (I had actually thought it said it would fix a problem where Seekers would target Krakens and they were taking it out, so that doesn't help) I feel like there's so little knockback to Krakens that it won't do anything, and it's pretty annoying to try to hit someone with a Seeker and watch it trailing after an invincible enemy. (and sometimes hitting them from behind-even less useful) Bubbler, in my experience, seems to at least get pushed back, and Bubbler helps more when in kid form, so they're not as fast as Krakens, so I understand Seekers targeting them more.

But I shouldn't really be complaining, they've been doing really great with their buffs.

 

[Leronne]

So this is a weird set i tried. The jet's strafing being equal to the dual's means that run speed up can actually increase it's strafing to a reasonable amount, as opposed to it barely making a difference pre 2.7.0. Now i normally use swim speed up, damage up and tenacity on the jet and in most cases these are some of the best abilities for it, but hammerhead was in rotation, so i tried running 2 run speed up mains instead of tenacity and some damage up. I actually ended up liking it more than i thought i would. For a majority of the matches on hammerhead i primarily stayed on the grating and it was surprisingly effective. Being able to effectively take down a lot of weapons. Chargers are still dufficult to deal with, but overal pretty great. I might just use it more often when hammerhead is in rotation.

What i normally use with the custom jet:
Soccer headband|
|
|

What i used this time around:

(been meaning to get triple damage on this)


The above will still be my go to set, but i'll use this one every so often on maps with a lots of gratings/nets like hammerhead, kelp dome or triggerfish.

 

[River09]

So this is a weird set i tried. The jet's strafing being equal to the dual's means that run speed up can actually increase it's strafing to a reasonable amount, as opposed to it barely making a difference pre 2.7.0. Now i normally use swim speed up, damage up and tenacity on the jet and in most cases these are some of the best abilities for it, but hammerhead was in rotation, so i tried running 2 run speed up mains instead of tenacity and some damage up. I actually ended up liking it more than i thought i would. For a majority of the matches on hammerhead i primarily stayed on the grating and it was surprisingly effective. Being able to effectively take down a lot of weapons. Chargers are still dufficult to deal with, but overal pretty. I might just use it more often when hammerhead is in rotation.

What i normally use with the custom jet:
Soccer headband|
|
|

What i used this time around:

(been meaning to get triple damage on this)


The above will still be my go to set, but i'll use this one every so often on maps with a lots of gratings/nets like hammerhead, kelp dome or triggerfish.

Yes, Run Speed speed increase does a lot for the Jet in that you can use sets like these. In my experience, it makes it far easier to cover turf in a short amount of time with strafing and Run Speed abilites greatly help in that regard. Large open maps like Dome and Pit or maps that require more running like Hammerhead, Run Speed greatly helps. I wouldn't place Run Speed above the ones you prioritise in your Custom Jet build but its in my opinion, a really great ability to have in some cases.