Guys I Think I Figured Out How To Fix Toxic Mist

[OnePotWonder]

Not going to bother with preamble. Just know that I've been trying to figure out how to buff this sub for months.

Toxic Mist is a weak, boring sub at the moment. I'd sugarcoat it, but there's really nothing to sugarcoat.
Toxic Mist has two uses; area denial and weakening opponents. The sub is hard outclassed by Suction Bomb at the former, and hard outclassed by Burst Bomb at the latter. The sub's inability to ink turf or deal damage only limits it further compared to the competition, which can be used to paint at a distance or finish off opponents that flee outside of main weapon range.
Additionally, Toxic Mist is rather bland and uninteresting. You throw it and the mist appears, lingering for five seconds. That's it.
This isn't even saddest part of Toxic Mist's fate, arguably. Almost every weapon the developers have put it on synergizes with it.

I have two buffs for the sub to try to make it stronger and more fun for the user.
Players that leave an area of Toxic Mist will have its effects linger on them for 1 second.
When a cloud of Toxic Mist appears, its initial effects against opponents in the area will be twice as strong.

These buffs make Toxic Mist stronger at both of its uses, as well as rewarding players for landing the sub close to an opponent.
Toxic Mist's effects grow stronger the longer a player is in the cloud, so these buffs should be strong, but not unreasonable.

Feel free to share your thoughts on these changes.
I hope you have a good day.

 

[Bennet]

I have a great way to make it fun, have two or more teammates have Toxic mist and you and some other teammate use your special on the opponent that is stuck I the toxic mist

 

[Catloafman]

I actually really like these changes might be tricky to implement but would be cool

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I have two buffs for the sub to try to make it stronger and more fun for the user.
Players that leave an area of Toxic Mist will have its effects linger on them for 1 second.
When a cloud of Toxic Mist appears, its initial effects against opponents in the area will be twice as strong.

More fun for the user, sure. But this would be seriously annoying to play against even if it isn't better than the other subs, which might be the reason they're hesitant to buff it. It's already pretty annoying to fight as is, you just don't see it as much because not many weapons with it are worth playing.

 

[OnePotWonder]

More fun for the user, sure. But this would be seriously annoying to play against even if it isn't better than the other subs, which might be the reason they're hesitant to buff it. It's already pretty annoying to fight as is, you just don't see it as much because not many weapons with it are worth playing.

The sub in and of itself is flawed, and has been since its previous incarnation as Disruptor. It will always be annoying to play against. Still, though, I wouldn't call it too much more annoying than a Splat Bomb or Torpedo. Even with these buffs, it's still fairly weak unless you're hit directly by it. The only other direction I can think of for buffing the sub is dialing up its opacity and turning it into a smoke bomb. And that seems cheesy in more ways than one.

 

[isaac4]

More fun for the user, sure. But this would be seriously annoying to play against even if it isn't better than the other subs, which might be the reason they're hesitant to buff it. It's already pretty annoying to fight as is, you just don't see it as much because not many weapons with it are worth playing.

I don't think there's any way you could buff Toxic Mist that wouldn't make it more annoying but a lot of weapons are stuck with it so I'd rather have it be good, though I would prefer if the sub just got reworked as a whole.

 

[Bennet]

Not going to bother with preamble. Just know that I've been trying to figure out how to buff this sub for months.

Toxic Mist is a weak, boring sub at the moment. I'd sugarcoat it, but there's really nothing to sugarcoat.
Toxic Mist has two uses; area denial and weakening opponents. The sub is hard outclassed by Suction Bomb at the former, and hard outclassed by Burst Bomb at the latter. The sub's inability to ink turf or deal damage only limits it further compared to the competition, which can be used to paint at a distance or finish off opponents that flee outside of main weapon range.
Additionally, Toxic Mist is rather bland and uninteresting. You throw it and the mist appears, lingering for five seconds. That's it.
This isn't even saddest part of Toxic Mist's fate, arguably. Almost every weapon the developers have put it on synergizes with it.

I have two buffs for the sub to try to make it stronger and more fun for the user.
Players that leave an area of Toxic Mist will have its effects linger on them for 1 second.
When a cloud of Toxic Mist appears, its initial effects against opponents in the area will be twice as strong.

These buffs make Toxic Mist stronger at both of its uses, as well as rewarding players for landing the sub close to an opponent.
Toxic Mist's effects grow stronger the longer a player is in the cloud, so these buffs should be strong, but not unreasonable.

Feel free to share your thoughts on these changes.
I hope you have a good day.

effect lasts for a few seconds during and after an opponent leaves the toxic mist bubble

 

[TheBearProphet]

Playing around subweapons should be annoying. When I’m playing Heavy Splatling a splat bomb or suction bomb is a serious annoyance. When I’m playing Nautilus the auto bomb is a huge annoyance. A sub weapon used against you being annoying means that it is doing something.

toxic mist needs more currently to be annoying. It’s currently in a tier where you need to be aware of it (like point sensor or ink mine) but it isn’t enough to change your game plan and the punishment for ignoring it isn’t even guaranteed. The worst case is still a splat, but only with the enemies continued attention, and even then that depends on them not being platted or otherwise distracted. If I throw a mist and you throw a spot bomb, I have to move and you can go through the mist unpunished.

It is demonstrably not enough in the state that it is in, and on the weapons that it is on that I play it is so rarely worth throwing one for the cost of ink and time spent. It still has use cases (so it is better than dart) but they are rare and I don’t think it being annoying to play against is enough of a counter argument.

 

[Bennet]

Playing around subweapons should be annoying. When I’m playing Heavy Splatling a splat bomb or suction bomb is a serious annoyance. When I’m playing Nautilus the auto bomb is a huge annoyance. A sub weapon used against you being annoying means that it is doing something.

toxic mist needs more currently to be annoying. It’s currently in a tier where you need to be aware of it (like point sensor or ink mine) but it isn’t enough to change your game plan and the punishment for ignoring it isn’t even guaranteed. The worst case is still a splat, but only with the enemies continued attention, and even then that depends on them not being platted or otherwise distracted. If I throw a mist and you throw a spot bomb, I have to move and you can go through the mist unpunished.

It is demonstrably not enough in the state that it is in, and on the weapons that it is on that I play it is so rarely worth throwing one for the cost of ink and time spent. It still has use cases (so it is better than dart) but they are rare and I don’t think it being annoying to play against is enough of a counter argument.

auto bomb is always annoying, it chases you down and sends you scrambling so you don't get cooked like an egg and get turned into an omelette

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

If something is never annoying to anyone then it probably isn't doing a lot and that's not great. but I feel like toxic mist is different, although that could just be personal bias.

 

[Bennet]

If something is never annoying to anyone then it probably isn't doing a lot and that's not great. but I feel like toxic mist is different, although that could just be personal bias.

yeah, but we all have to agree the most annoying thing is... dumb teammates (Not noobs because I know that they just started playing S3)

 

[OnePotWonder]

If something is never annoying to anyone then it probably isn't doing a lot and that's not great. but I feel like toxic mist is different, although that could just be personal bias.

It's particularly tricky to make slows, roots, and stuns feel fair on the receiving end. There's something about having your movement limited that feels kind of awful, which should be especially true in Splatoon (hence why there are no roots or stuns). Considering the fact that the good subs in the game can splat an enemy instantly, I feel like a strong-ish slowing sub is fine.

 

[Bennet]

It's particularly tricky to make slows, roots, and stuns feel fair on the receiving end. There's something about having your movement limited that feels kind of awful, which should be especially true in Splatoon (hence why there are no roots or stuns). Considering the fact that the good subs in the game can splat an enemy instantly, I feel like a strong-ish slowing sub is fine.

 

[Grushi]

Okay so after using it I think there's one buff I want.

The annoying parts about this sub are the duration (5 seconds) and the fact that it slows your movement. Ideally giving it a skill shot effect but reducing the duration would be cool but realistically nintendo's never doing that.

So I want mist to drain ink tanks faster. Right now it takes around 8 seconds to deplete a full ink tank which just isn't that threatening. Sometimes I'll throw it at a backline to displace them but the draining effect is kind of ignorable. Even against opponents sharking under ledges, they can literally tank the whole 5 seconds and be fine. So make it an actual threatening effect, it now takes 5 seconds to drain ink tanks. That makes the sub way better for fights and displacements without making it better at what it's already annoying at.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Okay so after using it I think there's one buff I want.

The annoying parts about this sub are the duration (5 seconds) and the fact that it slows your movement. Ideally giving it a skill shot effect but reducing the duration would be cool but realistically nintendo's never doing that.

So I want mist to drain ink tanks faster. Right now it takes around 8 seconds to deplete a full ink tank which just isn't that threatening. Sometimes I'll throw it at a backline to displace them but the draining effect is kind of ignorable. Even against opponents sharking under ledges, they can literally tank the whole 5 seconds and be fine. So make it an actual threatening effect, it now takes 5 seconds to drain ink tanks. That makes the sub way better for fights and displacements without making it better at what it's already annoying at.

wait it drains your ink tank?? I literally never noticed this, I thought it just stopped it from refilling. Yeah I can definitely see this needing a buff

 

[Grushi]

wait it drains your ink tank?? I literally never noticed this, I thought it just stopped it from refilling. Yeah I can definitely see this needing a buff

I looked it up and apparently it depletes faster and faster the longer you stay in the mist, which is a good mechanic honestly, if only it had more impact

 

[OnePotWonder]

Ah, yes, I meant to come back to this.
My new idea for a mist buff is simply to steepen the scaling curve of its effects. Mist's effects slowly increase over time, meaning unless you've been sitting in the cloud for four seconds, it's pretty pathetic. Mist will now scale to four seconds' worth of potency after one second. The sub is also getting @Grushi's ink draining buff because I didn't even realize it was that weak.

 

[Grushi]

You know what I'm coming back to this thread because I've got an even simpler idea.
Nintendo I'm making this so easy for you FIX THIS SUB ALREADY

Just make toxic mist a 45% sub, but nerf the duration from 5 to 3 seconds.
Mist's initial effect is kind of nice but it's very ink hungry, so why not lower the ink consumption and the duration to compensate? Most people are not standing in the mist for 5 seconds, the last 2 seconds are kind of useless and if they are useful, it's usually for a very annoying reason like rainmaker stalling or it being thrown at the tower, so get rid of that.
You can throw two of them but it's got a lot of white ink frames so it's mostly not worth it, I don't think that'd be a problem.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I still think it doing a small amount of damage would be a bigger improvement with regards to its synergy with the weapons it’s on.

Not a bad idea, though.

 

[Algae]

I've long had the idea of combining the mist's (hopefully faster-acting) effects with a thermal-ink tracking effect. The slowness infliction helps aim-intensive weapons AND the tracking lasts shortly after leaving the mist to further help arc-shooting sloshers and stringers?! Not like that'll stall the game as much, but I still think it'd be fun!