Guys I Think I Figured Out How To Fix Toxic Mist

[youre_a_squib_now]

Most people are not standing in the mist for 5 seconds, the last 2 seconds are kind of useless and if they are useful, it's usually for a very annoying reason like rainmaker stalling or it being thrown at the tower, so get rid of that.

Actually, those last two seconds are the most impactful part of the list (against me, at least).

I almost never get a mist thrown directly at me. What it does is it keeps me from going into that area because if I did, I would get shot easily.

Now that I'm writing this down, I think players are thinking about must in a different way than the devs are. The devs are thinking of it like I just explained (throw it somewhere to keep people out and maybe occasionally also trap people) but whenever I see people talking about it all I hear is how you're supposed to throw it at people to trap them, and yeah I guess you can do that, but I don't think that's even what it's best at

 

[Grushi]

Actually, those last two seconds are the most impactful part of the list (against me, at least).

I almost never get a mist thrown directly at me. What it does is it keeps me from going into that area because if I did, I would get shot easily.

Now that I'm writing this down, I think players are thinking about must in a different way than the devs are. The devs are thinking of it like I just explained (throw it somewhere to keep people out and maybe occasionally also trap people) but whenever I see people talking about it all I hear is how you're supposed to throw it at people to trap them, and yeah I guess you can do that, but I don't think that's even what it's best at

That's fair, I get what you mean. But considering it's so expensive and doesn't paint, it usually feels like a waste to me to throw it at an area instead of a player unless it's a really important chokepoint or something. But even then, I don't think it should be as good at controlling chokes, that's kind of an annoying property.

I guess it depends on if the devs view it as an area denial sub or a fighting sub, though it's hard to tell considering it's not great at either of those lol

 

[isaac4]

I don't see why the devs wouldn't also think that throwing Toxic Mist is a viable strategy.
I checked some of Sheldon's descriptions and he does mention using the sub to trap opponents to kill them more easily.
vTri is really what makes me believe it though because why would they give Mist to Tri for area denial? The idea clearly seems to be that Tri-Slosher can use Mist so that it can trap someone and get them before they're able to escape.

 

[Algae]

Tri-Slosher is fairly quick (and not the most aim-intensive), so it's funny that I used to see its Toxic Mist kit as fun.

 

[OnePotWonder]

The sub is pretty clearly designed for trapping enemies and controlling areas, neither of which the sub is particularly good at compared to other options.

One other change I’d like to see made is the removal of its scaling effect; it’s rather counterintuitive. Making it so the mist is weaker when first entered and stronger the longer an enemy sits in it only makes it weaker at what it’s supposed to do; nobody needs a reason to leave an area of Toxic Mist quickly. A consistent speed and ink draining penalty like with Disruptor would work far better.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I guess it depends on if the devs view it as an area denial sub or a fighting sub, though it's hard to tell considering it's not great at either of those lol

Why should we have to pick? Suction bomb is, at its core, and area denial sub. It says "don't be in this specific area, or you will die." It doesn't get much simpler than that. But I don't think anyone would say that it isn't also a fighting sub.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Why should we have to pick? Suction bomb is, at its core, and area denial sub. It says "don't be in this specific area, or you will die." It doesn't get much simpler than that. But I don't think anyone would say that it isn't also a fighting sub.

That's just the thing; Mist is supposed to be a hybrid fighting and area denial sub to make up for its lack of painting (like one would have with a Suction Bomb), but the problem is that it's too weak to fill either role very well. That's why I think making its effects stronger would be a good change for it, making it an actually threatening debuff. You should not be able to take a 1v1 in Toxic Mist and win unless you're playing a slayer and fighting a support.

 

[Yeenom]

auto bomb is always annoying, it chases you down and sends you scrambling so you don't get cooked like an egg and get turned into an omelette

Inner Agent 3 when

 

[OCTöHEAD]

would be cool if you couldn't be in squidmode when you're in it.
cuz it doesn't do that already.. right? I gotta say I've almost never used a weapon with that sub and hardly ever encountered it in game

 

[OnePotWonder]

would be cool if you couldn't be in squidmode when you're in it.
cuz it doesn't do that already.. right? I gotta say I've almost never used a weapon with that sub and hardly ever encountered it in game

It does not, in fact, do that. I think that it would stack too much with the mist’s other effects, though, and it might make it too strong and annoying. That’s the hard part about buffing Mist; making sure the game still feels playable while you’re inside it.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

ooh I really like this though. I don't have time to explain right now but taking away swim form actually feels like really good game design. As you said it would synergize really well with its other effects, but mist being too strong means we can tone it back.

my best guess for balancing it would be it doesn't drain your ink (keeping you in kid form restricts your ink enough) and it keeps a weaker version of the movement penalty.

Alternatively, that but you can use swim form and if you use it inside the mist you take double ink storm damage.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Toxic Mist disallowing swim form could be an interesting rebalance idea if done correctly. It would probably have to kick players into kid form over time in a similar vein to enemy ink, and then only prevent ink recovery and slightly reduce movement. It would make it so fighting in Toxic Mist is still entirely doable, but escaping it wouldn’t be easy once a player is stuck inside of it.

I would prefer this change to occur after some QoL changes reducing the negative impact of enemy ink.

 

[OCTöHEAD]

I got to thinking that it could just paint the floor it touches but that'd be too op in modes like tower and zones ig haha