Mafia 1 | D2

[Drez]

What, no. It's not a theory disagreement lol. What happened was that I stated I had African American as a town lean, then he says that I've had African American as null, and that he doesn't believe I'm town leaning African American because I didn't state any reasons, then uses that as an example for my lack of proactive play, stating that I could have asked him questions to strengthen my read.

Oh yeah this seems like a lie. He should definitely explain that part. @Bruce Squillis Can you explain this?

Anyways, I'm not really seeing h.JC scum atm, his eagerness to hunt for scum early on while most of us didn't have anything and were pretty lost makes me feel that he is more likely to be town. I think that as scum, he could have easily acted just as lost as the rest of the game and would have no repercussions from doing that. There are a few things I don't understand, like his unvote, and I don't really get the explanation of him backing off simply because at least one townie was defending coco, but overall, I think he's town.

On staying inactive as mafia, I feel it's possible mafia could try that. Yet, they don't have to, or at least, all of them. Otherwise, they run the risk of letting the town control lynches over them, and have cred over them. I feel one mafia being inactive and one being active as possible as well, to make it harder to find both. Remember, it's beneficial to scum if they do things that make them appear townie. I think it's better to simply look at their actions, instead of think of the possibilities, because we can't nail the possibilities, but we can nail their words and actions in thread.

 

[JeXs]

The reason he put Bruce in null was most likely as a result of this line:

The rest aligns with his other post aside from the Squid points, which I have already covered (unless I am missing something, in which case what am I missing?)

I am not saying either are wrong, and I am not specifically saying either of you are right. It was just about the way that you went about the response to him that made me feel slightly suspicious. Once again, you are more null than null scum for me, and I need more time/data to make a more decisive read on you.

That would be a town lean. Also, his African American read.

 

[JeXs]

Oh yeah this seems like a lie. He should definitely explain that part. @Bruce Squillis Can you explain this?



On staying inactive as mafia, I feel it's possible mafia could try that. Yet, they don't have to, or at least, all of them. Otherwise, they run the risk of letting the town control lynches over them, and have cred over them. I feel one mafia being inactive and one being active as possible as well, to make it harder to find both. Remember, it's beneficial to scum if they do things that make them appear townie. I think it's better to simply look at their actions, instead of think of the possibilities, because we can't nail the possibilities, but we can nail their words and actions in thread.

I never said anything about inactivity lol. I find it more likely that he is a townie who is eager to play the game, rather than a scum who is pushing everywhere to appear like they're doing something.

 

[Drez]

##Vote: Bossanova

Mari, I get the feeling that you are too unsure on Bossanova, you are a bit too wishy washy and seem to be trying to re-direct attention from him to JeXs. If you think he is being fake, then you certainly have room on the wagon with me. I think you just may have a problem with my personality, which definitely influences how I play and how I think. But, if you see my reasoning, then you can see why I have such confidence in my reads. I think you need to have a little bit more faith.

 

[Drez]

Read wise, I'm getting null-scum from you. Yet I still have a stronger read on Boss, who isn't even here on the most likely last day before deadline.

 

[JeXs]

Deadline is about 16 hours? I think? I think I'll be around.

 

[JeXs]

Or am I just completely wrong and we have 40 hours...

 

[Drez]

It depends on whether Yolo accepts or denies the request to extend. Stick around for today just in case.

 

[JeXs]

Yeah I'll be around but the dates are messing up my head lol.

 

[Drez]

You and everyone should think about major lynch targets and people you would be fine with compromising. Compromises are important.

The town must agree upon something! I think it's 5 to lynch.

 

[JeXs]

I'd be fine with Boss and Bruce. On a town flip I'll go after the other immediately. Haven't decided which I prefer though, most likely that will depend on their responses when they come back.

 

[Marigi174]

I'm not really completely sure on him, but maybe wagoning for this day may be the best way to go about it. We can probably make clearer judgements based around whether bossanova was scum or not tomorrow, so I think I'll hop on the bandwagon.

##vote: Bossanova

 

[JeXs]

##Vote: Bossanova
L-2. (It means 2 more votes are needed to lynch)

 

[Drez]

Alrighty. Mod: Request Votecount Currently by my count, there is 2 votes on Boss.

 

[Drez]

Lol ninja. There are 3 votes now.

 

[Drez]

Also, JexS and African, I'll trust you to ensure we get a lynch today (or do the right thing depending on the situation). I might have work tonight, since I am on call. I'm a busser for a restaurant.

 

[Drez]

I wanted to post this introductory theory for mafia, since this seems to be a game for newer players. I generated this as an IC in an old newbie game, but didn't change any of it up. I'm leaving this since I won't be around tonight, and I feel this is important for the newer players to at least think about before end game, as there are many things to keep in mind. Both spoilers are quite long, but these I put some time into formatting to make it easy to read, and with plenty of examples. Please do at least skim through it when you have the time, at least before end game!! (I have copy pasted this many times haha)

Enjoy!

Spoiler

Introduction

Ran here. Here are three simple tips you should follow for now:

• Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is, if you still do, hold those thoughts in notes until after the game finishes)
• Don't lie. Especially if you are a Vanilla Townie Role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end. Just don't lie at all, easier that way for you. Power Roles too, don't lie please. I'll talk a little bit about claiming soon.
• It's a game - have fun. My priority in mafia is to have fun, before winning. (I do want to win, yet my motivation to win is the fun)

RVS

We have started what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

STANDARDS

Soup mentioned his standards. I have standards, but I won't tell you them. You know what Town (The good guys) has to do, and what Mafia (The bad guys) want to do. You act accordingly to the role you were given, and I'll judge if your play is satisfactory. Noobytownscumguy: "But wait, ... I don't know. ; _ ;" That's fine, just check out my next post!

OH AND DON'T YOU DARE EDIT YOUR POSTS, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED

Spoiler

Basic Theory Post

Premise

The premise of the game is simple. At it's core, there is a town, and usually there has been a killing during the night, which riles the town up and they start discussing, questioning, and even lynching to actually get some progress going in finding the criminals who did the killing. If there isn't a pre-game kill which would have riled them, then pretend there was, or just assume there is Mafia (Bad guys) in the town that we are looking for as Town (The Good guys).

Game wise, everyone will get their role sent to them privately, and is usually randomized, so everyone has an opportunity to randomly aqcuire a role they may like, or may not. :troll: The good guys (Town) won't know who the other Towns-Men are, because they only know their own alignment. The bad guys know who the other bad guys are (if there are more than one) because that way they can work together to discuss plans/strategies to hide from the town and destroy them.

Now then. The Town usually wake up, and discuss/vote/lynch during the day. Discussion involves who people find suspicious, and questioning those they find suspicious, and even voting their suspicions. Games start during the day, usually in normal setups. So expect to start during day. Then, after a lynch is set, night falls, and the Townies go to sleep, while Power Roles and The Mafia will be out at night. The Mafia stay up at night to kill the Townsmen, one by one. (One per night) Power roles stay up to find information about the whole town in general, depending on what they can do. Power roles in my opinion, should not lie just because they are a power role. Here is an example of how lying can go wrong:

Mafia Newbie 10:
#635
#638
#639

You shouldn't really read any further unless you want to confuse yourself. I'll give a summary. Basically, Vanderzant was town. I was the mafia. Third post shows Acrostic's reasoning for believing why Vanderzant may have been scum, yet, this lie cost Town the game. Why? Because Glyph came in, and put the final vote on Vanderzant giving scum the game. So please, don't lie as town. Even as a power role.

LYNCHING

First, let's count how much people there are. There are 9 people, which means the majority is half that number plus 1. So 9 alive, 5 to lynch. What "5 to lynch" means, is 5 individual votes on one person, to lynch. The sole purpose for Townies to be awake, is to find The Mafia (The bad guys), via lynching. That's the power of the Townies, while the power of The Mafia is killing one person per night. This is why, voting is important. Usually, you should use your votes on the people you believe are suspicious, and along with the reason you believe so. This way, other townies can be able to see your point of view with why you believe that person to be The Mafia, and may also vote along with you. Keep in mind that The Mafia may also vote along with you to have the sense of belonging to the town as well. This may be confusing, just remember that The Mafia's sole purpose is to survive, even with one sole member, so voting their own Mafia Member would benefit them in the long run if it would give them Town Credit.

Yadda yadda yadda, and blam. Somehow, you have 3 votes on scummymctowndude. The pressure is on him, and now he is working his butt off to defend himself. It is in town's best benefit to hear him out, because you may have thought his mindset was a Mafia Mindset, yet may have been a Town Mindset in which was thought in a different angle. Town should be able to explain their mindset's easily, since Town usually don't lie. They should always have reasons for why they do things. If they don't, (and are Town), then they should try better next time.

Now, someone else votes along (with reason) and puts 4/5 votes on that person. He is most likely getting lynched. He just got put at L-1, which means "1 vote to lynch". Just think of it as "Lynch -1" when Lynch = 5, and it's at 4. Uh oh. It's time to claim.

CLAIM and HAMMERS

What should one do at L-1? Claim. Should people hammer after someone claims? NO! You read the claim and think before doing so, same as you look both ways before crossing the street. You take the claim with caution. Claim your role, and flavor.

Townmcscumdude: I'm Willy Wonka, Town Inventer.
Situation: Townies think, and might let him live since he can be useful. Mafia might kill him at night, so would be ok to let him be and get another chance to lynch someone else.

Townmcscumdude: I'm **** Dastardly, Vanilla Townie.
Situation: It's A-Ok to go ahead with lynching him because he isn't a power role, may be lying about his role (since Vanilla Townie is easy to claim as Mafia) and Mafia now won't have a reason to guess at his role nor kill him. The 5th vote would be the HAMMER.

Hammering means that when you hammer (the final vote), you finalize the lynch, and it freezes up. This means there is NO going back on the lynch, it's done. This is why when you vote, you better be voting as if you are holding a trigger to that person's head, and are ready to shoot the gun. That's how serious you should be in voting, during the middle of the first day, and the end of it.

COUNTER CLAIMING

Townmcscumdude: I'm Alladin, Town Cop.
Situation: Ok, now this guy claims a role which should be confirmed town. What should town do? They wait for anyone else to Counter Claim this person, or have everyone say "Not Cop" to confirm that this person is a Legit Cop. Why should one wait for a Counter Claim? This person may be mafia trying to lure the Power Role out. And guess what? If this person is Mafia, and you are the Town Cop (or whatever role that person is claiming to be), that person is lying and YOU SHOULD COME OUT to grant him death. No hiding to get more confirmations of reads. Example of a person hiding as cop:

Bad Idea Mafia 4:
#1643

This is just the end game, yelling at the person who didn't counter claim scum. It was a scum win because of this. So remember, if someone claims YOUR ROLE, you come out. An eye for an eye. 1 for 1. 1 for 1's don't work in LoL, but here they do. Why? I'll talk about that in the next section.

ADVANTAGES OF TOWN AND MAFIA

Generally, The Town have the advantage in numbers, yet they don't know who the other town are. The advantage of the Mafia, is information. They are usually low in number in comparison to the Town, yet they know who the other Mafia are, so they can usually wiggle around the town. Example?

Think of Fire Emblem (Role Playing Strategy Game), and how Greil had him, Shinon, and Gatrie roam about in a three-man team, because they know smaller numbers = more room to run/manuever/take out men quickly. Shinon and Gatrie were pretty damn good at what they did, and Greil was a ****ing monster. This helped the rest of the Mercaniries take off some heat while in pursuit, because the greil pack would devastate the enemies while being in the shadows. This is sort of how the advantage for Mafia works, except their The Bad guys, and their enemies are The Town.

For town, it's easy to see. Since we don't know who other towns are, we'll have to lynch people without really knowing their alignment. We may be confident, yet we won't know until the mod posts the flip. This is why for town, it's good to have numbers, because we may have been very wrong, and for us to find mafia we may need extra chances, especially since we have low information at first. Eventually as the numbers get closer together, the town will be gaining more information and should be able to find The Mafia if they try hard enough, and are right enough.

So, why are 1 for 1's good? Because let's say with 9 people... a person claims your role? A 1 for 1 is very good because you only gave up 1 Town, to find 1 Mafia. (Instead of lynching alot of town before finding mafia). Bam, if you come out, this becomes 7 people with 1 mafia in it. (If there were only two, which usually it is). This keeps the Town up in numbers, while nerfing the Mafia to less numbers without the Mafia messing about in the town before it happened. Sure, you are town cop that wants to confirm more reads. You don't need to, you just essentially, got a guilty on scum when this happens. When you get a guilty, you SHOULD COME OUT THAT DAY AND WITH TIME to discuss. Just trust me bro, it's better that way. :smirk:

TL;DR

I think I covered everything that you should know for now. Remind me (or my bro, Soup) to cover end-game (not post-game) and Lylo/Mylo sometime during the day. Don't ask me if you haven't even read this post lolz. READ IT MOFO.

Things to remember:

• This whole post covers what should happen during 1 Game Phase/Day. So this should happen every Game Phase/Day, until the very last Game Phase/Day. The Last Day is called Lylo, or rather, Lynch or Lose.
• Don't lie as Town Vanilla or Town Power Role.
• Come out as a Town Power Role when you have information to give to the town which can give them a certain chance of finding Mafia, or when someone claims your role. If you haven't gotten a guilty yet, just keep investigating, and come out on Day 3, it's the optimal move for cop. (Come out with two innocents, and yourself, equal's 3 confirmed town)
• Don't claim a power role as Vanilla Town, you will get lynched. Just accept your fate.
• Town have the advantage of numbers, Mafia have the advantage of information/intel.
• The only chance Town has to get rid of Mafia, is through lynching.
• Voting is important, treat it as a trigger of a gun. Should come along with reasons.
• It should take a certain amount of votes to lynch; check the vote count/first game post to see how much it takes. In this game, it says "9 alive, 5 to lynch". Always check this number at the start of the day.
• Claim at L-1, or "Lynch minus 1 (vote)". If power role, unvote, think, and decide the person's fate. Usually might live. If Vanilla Town role, usually go ahead and lynch.
• The hammer (Final vote) freezes the lynch, which makes it finalized, meaning you can't go back from lynching. They are dead for good. This is why people must be careful when someone is at L-1. Good practice is unvoting if the wagon was going too fast, or if the person claimed a confirmed Power Role, or questionable Power Role.
• Have fun, and try to learn via experience. Also follow my and Soup's example.

P.S. Soup~ If I forgot something, please cover it. Thanks ~
Your bro - Ran

 

[h.JC]

have to get to class soon so i'll reply to JeXs since his are shorter
miragi, reading is important, and i've tried to seperate my defense into the different points. i'll consider "more posts" as a strategy later on to make things more digestable

Why the unvote here?

i'm using tilt controls

I didn't have any scum reads, I'm not going to push for a random lynch lol. If you feel like I'm not providing enough reasons, you could have asked me, which you didn't.

Anyways, I'm not really seeing h.JC scum atm, his eagerness to hunt for scum early on while most of us didn't have anything and were pretty lost makes me feel that he is more likely to be town. I think that as scum, he could have easily acted just as lost as the rest of the game and would have no repercussions from doing that. There are a few things I don't understand, like his unvote, and I don't really get the explanation of him backing off simply because at least one townie was defending coco, but overall, I think he's town.

I'm not a very aggressive player. I try to make pushes in several directions, with logic that I find to be sounds, but I've learned to back down after past failure--I've maybe hit scum once out of my 10+ games. The timidity can be seen as scummy, sure, but so can keeping my vote on one person instead of just moving on (i.e. tunneling).

Hmm, interesting. @Drez

So, you're pointing out that the FOS on Bruce is similar in reasoning to the HOS on Drez. What are you getting out of that?

 

[JeXs]

Hmm, no. I found your fos on Bruce to be an interesting interaction. I tagged Drez to ensure that he sees it. Also, what is that part about tilt controls?

 

[h.JC]

it's the approximation for "i've already said this twice so i'm probably not going to take the effort to answer it again"