Nerfing Shooters 101

[sevenleaf]

You just reminded me that Gloogas exist.

have we not suffered enough? must we also be forgotten by the masses?

 

[blind_solZ]

I main the spLoosh i don't think firerate would help but maybe more shot spread

 

[OnePotWonder]

I've done some more research into weapon accuracy, and can safely counter-buff the Gals now:

.52 Gal
Initial chance to shoot wide decreased from 2% → 1%
Accuracy decrease per shot decreased from 3% → 2%

.96 Gal
Initial chance to shoot wide decreased from 4% → 2%
Accuracy decrease per shot decreased from 3% → 2%

Still not quite as accurate as other shooters, but better than what it would have been otherwise. Seems only fair.

 

[NumberOneAries]

Those .52 nerfs gave me clear skin ‍

 

[missingno]

That doesn't begin to compensate for how far over the top your nerfs are. You didn't balance .52, you made a .96 with much worse range.

.96 already doesn't need a nerf. How does it make sense to have a weapon that's substantially worse than that?

Really what you've done here is put the top tiers so far into the dumpster that you then had to look at the low tiers and make those even worse too.

 

[blind_solZ]

What do you mean Don't these just make the gals better or am I Confused?

 

[isaac4]

That doesn't begin to compensate for how far over the top your nerfs are. You didn't balance .52, you made a .96 with much worse range.

.96 already doesn't need a nerf. How does it make sense to have a weapon that's substantially worse than that?

Really what you've done here is put the top tiers so far into the dumpster that you then had to look at the low tiers and make those even worse too.

Besides .96, what are some of the other changes that you would say are too harsh? I can see .96 being hit pretty hard and maybe Splattershot Jr. but the rest of the nerfs don't stand out to me as anything that would kill the weapon.

Edit: My opinion has changed quite a bit since I posted this. I get why these nerfs could be seen as way too harsh but I still think these changes are worth discussing about as some of them are really interesting.

 

[missingno]

All of the fire rate nerfs stand out as the most obvious cases of overkill. Just as I've done with the two Gals, you can compare every weapon that got a fire rate nerf to other weapons with similar fire rates - and then bear in mind that those weapons are supposed to have other redeeming attributes to make up for being slow, which these nerfed weapons won't even have. And why are we even nerfing low tiers at all? Just to cover up how far the good weapons got dropped so they don't look so bad in comparison?

I'm not going to go through the whole list one by one, I don't think it's necessary. I think it should be on OP to justify these changes, because when they've started the thread by admitting they just hate the weapon class and want them all removed from the meta, it's hard for me to take any of this seriously.

 

[Cephalobro]

Also, I have to point something out, the (main) Splatoon series is a third-person shooter whether we like it or not, and it has been from the very beginning. The Splat Roller, while being basic, cannot replace the Splattershot as the starter for the shooter class, because the Splattershot itself is a shooter weapon while the Splat Roller is not.

Each weapon class is supposed to have a beginner-friendly weapon that can give new players a chance to win against experienced players, and they rightfully do so.

 

[Catloafman]

I gotta say I am a big fan of these changes especially the squeezer and aerospray changes
my only gripe is with the splashwall change which now is placed like a squid beakon which is a good idea but I worry for how it would work on tower control
Sure it has less health now but wall on tower is way easier to set up which I don't think you intended especially knowing your stance on Big bubbler on tower

 

[SAMICOM]

That doesn't begin to compensate for how far over the top your nerfs are. You didn't balance .52, you made a .96 with much worse range.

.96 already doesn't need a nerf. How does it make sense to have a weapon that's substantially worse than that?

Really what you've done here is put the top tiers so far into the dumpster that you then had to look at the low tiers and make those even worse too.

i really don't want to take sides because you both have some awful takes, my god

 

[OnePotWonder]

One person at a time.

All of the fire rate nerfs stand out as the most obvious cases of overkill. Just as I've done with the two Gals, you can compare every weapon that got a fire rate nerf to other weapons with similar fire rates - and then bear in mind that those weapons are supposed to have other redeeming attributes to make up for being slow, which these nerfed weapons won't even have. And why are we even nerfing low tiers at all? Just to cover up how far the good weapons got dropped so they don't look so bad in comparison?

Which weapons are you comparing these nerfed shooters to? Dualies? Or each other?
Shooters already have a slew of redeeming attributes to make up for lower fire rates than other options. They remain the most mobile class. They remain the best painters. Now, instead of being able to rely on their times to splat, they'll have to actually strafe around and dodge enemy attacks to win fights.

As for the low tiers, Aerospray was given a huge compensatory buff, and both it and Jet Squelcher and handicapped by two bad kits. Splattershot Pro could stand to have its fire rate nerf only be a one frame increase, but it would likely end up badly outclassing the standard Splattershot, and I'm trying to avoid invalidating any shooters by having others be flatly superior. I'm not sure how many other counter-buffs I can give Pro, though. It is a point of issue.

I'm not going to go through the whole list one by one, I don't think it's necessary. I think it should be on OP to justify these changes, because when they've started the thread by admitting they just hate the weapon class and want them all removed from the meta, it's hard for me to take any of this seriously.

You keep repeating this, but it's false. I never said I hate the class. I do consider them overpowered, and I certainly don't want any of them to be top tiers, but I don't want them dead. I actually quite like Pro, .96, and Nova, not to mention the semi-autos.
Don't make assumptions. They tend to falsely justify your mental image of a situation and only ever prove yourself right.

I have already justified most of the nerfs, but I'll add another point: Shooters will survive. Even if my intent were to kill the class, it would be impossible without shattering their identities or halving their fire rates. Their inherent strengths of being able to cleanly switch between swimming and shooting, being able to paint in a wide spread; they will always keep the class afloat. The only thing that's ever made any of them truly weak is their shot spread, which I will never advocate for increasing, or truly garbage kits.

Think about how the weapons would play with the nerfs before writing your next comment. Either your mental perception is wildly different than mine, or you'll see the class operating almost identically, at most forced to use their movement a bit more.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Also, I have to point something out, the (main) Splatoon series is a third-person shooter whether we like it or not, and it has been from the very beginning. The Splat Roller, while being basic, cannot replace the Splattershot as the starter for the shooter class, because the Splattershot itself is a shooter weapon while the Splat Roller is not.

Each weapon class is supposed to have a beginner-friendly weapon that can give new players a chance to win against experienced players, and they rightfully do so.

Splattershot Jr. is the beginner-friendly shooter. It's literally the first weapon a player is given, and for good reason; it's built for inking as much turf as possible, with the mobility (and bombs) to escape from unwanted fights. It's perfect for beginners. We don't also need a powerful beginner slayer shooter.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I gotta say I am a big fan of these changes especially the squeezer and aerospray changes
my only gripe is with the splashwall change which now is placed like a squid beakon which is a good idea but I worry for how it would work on tower control
Sure it has less health now but wall on tower is way easier to set up which I don't think you intended especially knowing your stance on Big bubbler on tower

I've been thinking about this since you made the comment and it's actually a tricker situation than I was expecting. I neither want to make placing Splash Wall on tower impossible nor change its stats too much while it's on the tower. I suppose it could start with 400 HP and 2/3 of its normal duration, and it wouldn't be too weird, but I feel like there exists a better alternative.

 

[Cephalobro]

Splattershot Jr. is the beginner-friendly shooter. It's literally the first weapon a player is given, and for good reason; it's built for inking as much turf as possible, with the mobility (and bombs) to escape from unwanted fights. It's perfect for beginners. We don't also need a powerful beginner slayer shooter.

Yeah no, the Splattershot Jr. is not the beginner weapon, sure it's the first weapon that the player is given, but having it be the designated beginner weapon of the shooter class is highly inaccurate. First, the Splattershot Jr. is not even considered the designated beginner weapon by Nintendo themselves, if it was, its design would've matched that of the Splattershot and the other first weapons that can be bought. Secondly, the point of the beginner weapons is that they are supposed to decently represent the class they are part of, which in the shooter class's case, being able to splat the members of the opposing team decently regardless of weapon makeup. Thirdly, yes we do need a powerful beginner slayer shooter so that later in the game's update cycle when new players inevitably join in, they would be able to hold their own against decently skilled players.

 

[OnePotWonder]

Yeah no, the Splattershot Jr. is not the beginner weapon, sure it's the first weapon that the player is given, but having it be the designated beginner weapon of the shooter class is highly inaccurate. First, the Splattershot Jr. is not even considered the designated beginner weapon by Nintendo themselves, if it was, its design would've matched that of the Splattershot and the other first weapons that can be bought. Secondly, the point of the beginner weapons is that they are supposed to decently represent the class they are part of, which in the shooter class's case, being able to splat the members of the opposing team decently regardless of weapon makeup. Thirdly, yes we do need a powerful beginner slayer shooter so that later in the game's update cycle when new players inevitably join in, they would be able to hold their own against decently skilled players.

I've had enough of your blathering. Splatlings, Brellas, and Stringers don't have good flagship weapons. Splattershot's current time to splat and special output are ridiculous. There is a reason that vShot is the only weapon regularly banned in scrims. If new players need a decent starting weapon, Splat Roller is available at the same level. Shooter or not, it's an option for beginners, and a great one at that. We do not "need" a powerful beginner shooter to keep new players invested. The notion is ridiculous.
You hold no ground. No nerfs will be reverted. Splattershot fully deserves what I have given it.

 

[Cephalobro]

I've had enough of your blathering. Splatlings, Brellas, and Stringers don't have good flagship weapons. Splattershot's current time to splat and special output are ridiculous. There is a reason that vShot is the only weapon regularly banned in scrims. If new players need a decent starting weapon, Splat Roller is available at the same level. Shooter or not, it's an option for beginners, and a great one at that. We do not "need" a powerful beginner shooter to keep new players invested. The notion is ridiculous.
You hold no ground. No nerfs will be reverted. Splattershot fully deserves what I have given it.

The Splat Roller isn't that great of a starting weapon to replace the Splattershot. And it's not ridiculous at all that we need a powerful beginner shooter for new players to keep being invested, because there needs to be one of every weapon class, which includes the shooter class.

Besides, Nintendo will never implement these nerfs you presented in the first place, especially not for the Splattershot.

 

[SAMICOM]

can we focus on buffs and nerfs to other classes

and not with bias and whatnot. if you say something like "eliter is bad for the game"
please get good

like actually

 

[OnePotWonder]

can we focus on buffs and nerfs to other classes

and not with bias and whatnot. if you say something like "eliter is bad for the game"
please get good

like actually

I was debating making a post covering literally everything. Dualies need rebalancing to match these nerfed shooters, splatlings need a better matchups against chargers and Hydra needs reworking. Brellas need buffing, sloshers need reworks. There's a lot. I might make one once I have a metric ton of time on my hands.

 

[SAMICOM]

I was debating making a post covering literally everything. Dualies need rebalancing to match these nerfed shooters, splatlings need a better matchups against chargers and Hydra needs reworking. Brellas need buffing, sloshers need reworks. There's a lot. I might make one once I have a metric ton of time on my hands.

okay, true. this was also really brave to post, you pissed many people (such as myself) off