Save Scumming in the competitive environment

[Sharpzz]

The odds of getting gear with 4 of the same (neutral - 6%) ability are 0.0216%. That would take an average of 4,630 snails, or 138,888,889 G. I'd say that's equipment you can't use but save scummers can. I've seen plenty of these equips in-game.

I have Pilot Goggles with 1 Bomb range up main and 3 subs and I didn't scum for it. Some people just have luck.

 

[Hitzel]

Save scumming for equipment is actually a good thing.

For a game to be competitive, there needs to be an even playing field for as many players as possible. This means that everyone should have as much access to the exact gear they want as possible. If a majority of people save scum, more people are going to have easier access to optimal gear and the playing field will be more even. It doesn't matter what the game or the developers say, an even playing field is an even playing field. Period.

It's the same as, say, genning difficult-to-get Pokemon for competition. RNG, rarity, event-exclusivity, etc should never prevent specific people from being able to use the tools they want within the normal bounds of the game. People DO get off-brand perfect rolls without save scumming. SS-S LSDJ has 3 special charges on Ink Resist shoes, Pikachu.SF has a Ninja Squid shirt with 3 Swim Speeds, etc, and they don't save scum. Those are good examples of RNG being unfair.

It does suck that players with digital copies of the game have a harder time save scumming, but there are still things you can do:

Digital players CAN still save scum, but they really should horde a ton of resources before doing so (I'd say at least two million), especially when going for low-chance rolls, to mitigate the longer backup and restore process.

Players can, of course, order off of their clanmates and common opponents, although you'll usually end up with two slots copied at best instead of 3. (I suspect that save scumming a file with perfect gear in town to order every day will result in different results every time, but I don't know this for sure. I do know for a fact that your gear's subs are determined at or before the moment you order from Spyke, so scumming a file that has gear ready for pickup does nothing.)

The most important way to increase your chances of getting gear is actually to not go for perfect off-brand rolls. Spreading your subs over multiple pieces of gear increases your chances dramatically (although they are still not very high, you go from ~1 in 4500 to ~1 in 600 depending on what you're trying to do). It is still best to horde money and save scum with digital to achieve this, but know that you can manipulate RNG slightly in your favor by spreading your subs around. it makes your perfect build more possible, although it also makes it hard to use the same pieces of gear in multiple builds. I have a save scumming and RNG manipulation guide written here.

Then there are of course, people who do absolutely nothing to increase their chances of getting good gear and try to call out those who did the smart thing. Those people don't have the right to call anyone out and we can ignore them. It's like a kid who didn't study for an exam and failed, then talked trash on kids who got good grades. Shut up, kid.

---

Save scumming for rank is an entirely different issue. On one hand, low level players scumming for high ranks is bad for matchmaking because it screws with Solo Queue's team balancing, and it's honestly pretty pathetic. People who scum and act like they didn't is also pathetic.

On the other hand, there are plenty of S players on high-level teams that just don't play or enjoy Solo Queue, and I don't see anything wrong with them scumming to get S+, never touching Solo Queue again, and being honest about scumming when asked about it. Performance as an individual in Solo Queue is quite certainly irrelevant compared to the performance of a team in Team Queue, Tournaments, Competitive Customs, etc. It's always been that way throughout the history of online team shooters and Splatoon is no different. Since the ranking system doesn't reward the best teams in the game for being the best teams, those high-level teams can go ahead and use an exploit to get the S+'s they should have already gotten for winning so much. There's nothing wrong with them getting the extra 1K per win, and it's better for the game if the best teams search Team Queue with the highest rank and therefore have less chances of pub stomping low-level players.

The problem is, of course, that it's all an honor system. People have to say "I am on one of the best teams and deserve S+" and actually deserve S+. It's just such a problem that a collective team is judged by a rank that is not related to their collective team, so what else are you going to do? Some people will do it and it will be okay, but others will do it and it won't be okay. Some people will be honest about it, others won't. There's simply no way to enforce things. It would be nice if S players could move up and down S and S+ but not lose S, but that doesn't happen so we are stuck with what we're stuck with.

---

In the end, save scumming is a good thing as far as equipment is concerned, and is a cloudy issue as far as rank is concerned.

 

[Rhode]

The odds of getting gear with 4 of the same (neutral - 6%) ability are 0.0216%. That would take an average of 4,630 snails, or 138,888,889 G. I'd say that's equipment you can't use but save scummers can. I've seen plenty of these equips in-game.

By equipment I can't use, I mean equipment that cannot be obtained through any means but data mining.

 

[Lyre]

Save scumming for equipment is actually a good thing.
Then there are of course, people who do absolutely nothing to increase their chances of getting good gear and try to call out those who did the smart thing. Those people don't have the right to call anyone out and we can ignore them. It's like a kid who didn't study for an exam and failed, then talked trash on kids who got good grades. Shut up, kid.

I wouldn't use that as the analogy. It'd be more of a kid who studied and paid to take an an exam, but got a lower grade due to a curve from other kids who just retook the exam over and over via time machine until they got the score they wanted with one entrance fee. Save scumming goes against the spirit of the system, as justifiable as it is. Anyone can do it, but that doesn't make it right. Personally I don't really care for save scumming items, but this is just antagonizing others since they don't feel like resorting to external measures to get it easier is right. This is starting to sound like the whole Monster Hunter 4 powersaving shenanigans, where you COULD use other means to get your specific item, but it brings up a massive rally on either side claiming what's right and what's wrong. Yes, you can do it, but others will argue against it.

For this situation of competitive splatoon, it's apparent that most people will want "perfect" gear for min-maxing. So I'd say people better start doing it if they want to compete, or Nintendo needs to release a 0* set of gear that has no subs for competitive play. We can't really tell apart who did save scum and who did get it legitimately anyways.

 

[Poyo]

I have a save scumming and RNG manipulation guide written here.

This is fantastic. I'd recommend making a dedicated thread.

 

[MakesDream]

Save scumming for equipment is actually a good thing.

For a game to be competitive, there needs to be an even playing field for as many players as possible. This means that everyone should have as much access to the exact gear they want as possible. If a majority of people save scum, more people are going to have easier access to optimal gear and the playing field will be more even. It doesn't matter what the game or the developers say, an even playing field is an even playing field. Period.

It's the same as, say, genning difficult-to-get Pokemon for competition. RNG, rarity, event-exclusivity, etc should never prevent specific people from being able to use the tools they want within the normal bounds of the game. People DO get off-brand perfect rolls without save scumming. SS-S LSDJ has 3 special charges on Ink Resist shoes, Pikachu.SF has a Ninja Squid shirt with 3 Swim Speeds, etc, and they don't save scum. Those are good examples of RNG being unfair.

It does suck that players with digital copies of the game have a harder time save scumming, but there are still things you can do:

Digital players CAN still save scum, but they really should horde a ton of resources before doing so (I'd say at least two million), especially when going for low-chance rolls, to mitigate the longer backup and restore process.

Players can, of course, order off of their clanmates and common opponents, although you'll usually end up with two slots copied at best instead of 3. (I suspect that save scumming a file with perfect gear in town to order every day will result in different results every time, but I don't know this for sure. I do know for a fact that your gear's subs are determined at or before the moment you order from Spyke, so scumming a file that has gear ready for pickup does nothing.)

The most important way to increase your chances of getting gear is actually to not go for perfect off-brand rolls. Spreading your subs over multiple pieces of gear increases your chances dramatically (although they are still not very high, you go from ~1 in 4500 to ~1 in 600 depending on what you're trying to do). It is still best to horde money and save scum with digital to achieve this, but know that you can manipulate RNG slightly in your favor by spreading your subs around. it makes your perfect build more possible, although it also makes it hard to use the same pieces of gear in multiple builds. I have a save scumming and RNG manipulation guide written here.

Then there are of course, people who do absolutely nothing to increase their chances of getting good gear and try to call out those who did the smart thing. Those people don't have the right to call anyone out and we can ignore them. It's like a kid who didn't study for an exam and failed, then talked trash on kids who got good grades. Shut up, kid.

---

Save scumming for rank is an entirely different issue. On one hand, low level players scumming for high ranks is bad for matchmaking because it screws with Solo Queue's team balancing, and it's honestly pretty pathetic. People who scum and act like they didn't is also pathetic.

On the other hand, there are plenty of S players on high-level teams that just don't play or enjoy Solo Queue, and I don't see anything wrong with them scumming to get S+, never touching Solo Queue again, and being honest about scumming when asked about it. Performance as an individual in Solo Queue is quite certainly irrelevant compared to the performance of a team in Team Queue, Tournaments, Competitive Customs, etc. It's always been that way throughout the history of online team shooters and Splatoon is no different. Since the ranking system doesn't reward the best teams in the game for being the best teams, those high-level teams can go ahead and use an exploit to get the S+'s they should have already gotten for winning so much. There's nothing wrong with them getting the extra 1K per win, and it's better for the game if the best teams search Team Queue with the highest rank and therefore have less chances of pub stomping low-level players.

The problem is, of course, that it's all an honor system. People have to say "I am on one of the best teams and deserve S+" and actually deserve S+. It's just such a problem that a collective team is judged by a rank that is not related to their collective team, so what else are you going to do? Some people will do it and it will be okay, but others will do it and it won't be okay. Some people will be honest about it, others won't. There's simply no way to enforce things. It would be nice if S players could move up and down S and S+ but not lose S, but that doesn't happen so we are stuck with what we're stuck with.

---

In the end, save scumming is a good thing as far as equipment is concerned, and is a cloudy issue as far as rank is concerned.

Agreeing with Poyo above me. This guide is great and is exactly what I'm looking for. Also I think I saw you online the other day in squads, do you play a splattershot with a burst bomb build?

 

[StayPuft]

I've save scummed for rerolls and I have no problem with those that do it. It's super easy to do as well, all you need is a USB and those can be acquired for pretty cheap nowadays, it's not like you need some special external programs or whatever for it to work.

 

[Sol64]

Up to this point I've rolled all my gear with my money and didn't even realize this technique existed. I have about 400k left (while everyone swims in their millions) to get the library of gear that I can access so far on my save.

When I did learn about it, I noticed some really "unfair", "broken" and perfect" and "pure" gear coming out the woodwork while I was only in my 2/3 gear. I only had 4 perfect brand based gear through leveling and I was honestly okay with it, if I didn't like what I had i'd roll it anyway.

Seeing this thread, i've now noticed that save scumming your file to beat the RNG Spyke rolls out seems surprisingly acceptable in this forum. I might even start to make a back up of my file (why didn't I think of it before) after I get my snails from the next splatfest to try and get some better results.

Or maybe I still shouldn't?

 

[Poyo]

Or maybe I still shouldn't?

At the beginning of this year, I spent like three months grinding Classic Mode on Smash for 3DS to get all of the custom special moves.
Did I need to? No. I could have effortlessly installed homebrew, without any repercussions.
Did I want to? Absolutely. It felt good to myself to have perservered through and gotten it legitimately.
Did the end result matter? Not at all. I would have all of the special moves either way.

When it doesn't affect other people negatively, do whatever you want to for yourself. This is one of those instances. To a vast majority of us on this forum, save scumming (for gear) is totally acceptable

 

[Mendax]

personally, I'm of the opinion that Save Scumming for re-rolls is fine. after all, a pure/shiny piece of gear only has about a 0.02% chance of occurring, and considering the high cost, I think it's well justified.
Save Scumming for Rank, though....depends. if you save, say, once per 3 ranks, (one for B-/B/B+) then I reckon it's allowed since there's a massive gap and you're just keeping progress, in constrast to making progress.

EDIT: on second thoughts...scrap that. Ignore the above; Scumming for rank is stupid, inexcusable, and makes you a pain in the neck for your team-mates.
I have since deleted my backup, forced myself down to B where I was before, and am planning to get to A+ legit.
Thanks for the enlightment, @Njok.

 

[Njok]

personally, I'm of the opinion that Save Scumming for re-rolls is fine. after all, a pure/shiny piece of gear only has about a 0.02% chance of occurring, and considering the high cost, I think it's well justified.
Save Scumming for Rank, though....depends. if you save, say, once per 3 ranks, (one for B-/B/B+) then I reckon it's allowed since there's a massive gap and you're just keeping progress, in constrast to making progress.
but if you do it once a rank, or even once a match...
get out. you're nothing but a poser.

Ehm no, you're cheating either way. The game is designed to make you rank up once you can sustain a certain win rate. By backing your file up and not counting the losses, you are cheating. It's that simple.

The point in this thread though, unless i misunderstood it, is that it doesn't affect competitive play, since scrims and tournaments are held in private battles and it literally doesn't matter there if you are C- or S+.

 

[pooplooser]

I'd like to get a discussion about the infamous Save Scumming going.

A lot of you probably heard of it already - on the Wii U it's possible to copy your Splatoon file from and to a USB drive, load and save from this drive and - if you wish - revert your save to an old state. It's not like in early times of the Wii U anymore when you could only move files to external devices, you can actually copy them with ease.

This mechanic is perfectly fine for backup purposes, but it opens up some possibilities for exploits. The most well-known one is to get infinite rerolls on equipment, thus making is way easier to get your desired or "perfect" loadout. While I haven't tried it myself, I personally think there's not much wrong with doing so if you wish. Nintendo doesn't give us better ways to get specific slots (like rolling single slots for a higher price for example), so it's the only legit way without farming money for all eternity and hoping to get lucky.

And here we've come to the topic: Do you think equipment which was formed with the help of Save Scumming should be considered 100% legit for competitive gaming, i.e. tournaments etc.? Yet, there is no way to proof if someone used this method or just got lucky, but I'd like to hear the community's opinions nevertheless.


Some people also use this method to gain rank without the risk of losing. While there is some controversy about that, too, I think it doesn't impact competitive play as much as equipment farming.

Like it or not, technically speaking it is the more reliable, quicker way to achieving the biggest goal in the game: S+.
Don't think like a brain, think like a computer.

 

[Damandatwin]

Even if people wanted to ban it, bans have to be enforceable. As was said in the OP, there is no way to tell (with certainty) that any particular piece of gear was save-scummed. So you'd end up with endless accusations with insufficient evidence (unless someone was dumb enough to admit doing it). Not feasible IMO.

 

[TheMH]

Like it or not, technically speaking it is the more reliable, quicker way to achieving the biggest goal in the game: S+.
Don't think like a brain, think like a computer.

Technically there are faster ways to cover a distance of 42,195m than running ;)

When it comes to highscores in gaming (i.e. ranks in Splatoon) there are rules and just because it's possible doesn't mean you can neglect these rules.

 

[Nintendome]

Like it or not, technically speaking it is the more reliable, quicker way to achieving the biggest goal in the game: S+.
Don't think like a brain, think like a computer.

Too bad there's a brain in my head instead of a computer

 

[Mendax]

Like it or not, technically speaking it is the more reliable, quicker way to achieving the biggest goal in the game: S+.
Don't think like a brain, think like a computer.

A computer has no logical reasoning, especially where bragging rights are concerned. As such, it may not consider S+ the biggest goal in the game.
For instance, it may consider getting 99999p on a weapon as the biggest goal.

A.I, on the other hand, may be different. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[Heart of Ice]

Too bad there's a brain in my head instead of a computer

Actually, brains are considered to be natural super-computers. They are more powerful then any computers invented by man. Instead of being guided by code, they are controlled by systematic releases of chemicals. Also, they can be hacked just like a computer. That's essentially what hypnosis is.

 

[Poyo]

Okay, this thread has evolved into total pedantics. Can we just not post unless it's relevant to the topic of save-scumming?

 

[Power]

Okay, this thread has evolved into total pedantics. Can we just not post unless it's relevant to the topic of save-scumming?

I don't really get why this thread has so many replies.(Edit: nvm, a "controversial" issue is bound to be flooded with replies) Anyways...like I have stated before, the competitive sub forum has been very uninteresting lately, which could be a part of it. My thoughts on the issue are...

1. Can we stop people from save scumming? No, as it is impossible to tell.
2. In terms of competitive play, rank doesn't matter at all. So save scumming rank doesn't really accomplish anything in that regard (unless the more $$$ in Squad ranked = More re-rolls, but the flawed logic in this is obvious)

I really doubt there is more to say about save scumming that is relevant to the competitive side of things.

 

[Reila]

I couldn't care less. But then again, I used to be a huge Pokésav user. I don't like wasting my time.