So many guns need a Nerf IMO.

[Crucifigo]

I'm on the no-nerf side of things. Every weapon has a weakness to exploit, you just have to learn it.

I mained Aerospray RG, Krak-On, Inkbrush and Duel Squelcher, so I've had plenty of practice learning how to kick other players *****.

Aerospray: I use this for grinding points/cash. High points, lots of turf, easily splatted. Anything with range can easily shoot down an Aerospray user. Sure it's like a machine gun, but it still has poor damage. Believe me, I LOVE the RG, but anything a few feet away from you can easily splat you. Krakens, Bubblers, Chargers, Squelchers, Gals, Blasters, MG/RG goes down easy. I can easily wipe out an Aerospray with the Duel Squelcher because they just can't reach me.

It's easy to beat, basically, because it has such a ****ty range. I'll still use it, but I'll never get the kills I do with the Squelcher. Sadface.

Gals: I don't use these because I love high fire rate, but every other match has at least two of the buggers. Compared to other guns, it does fire slowly. That's why it gets to hit hard, because you have to get two consecutive hits, and that's not as easy as it sounds when your target is flopping about like a stranded fish. Inattentive rollers, sure, but nobody else is going to be standing still.

Some weapons are great for covering turf, some are great for splatting other users. None of them are actually a problem. Players need skill with their chosen weapon and practice on the field. Aerosprays get the OP hammer a lot, but really, they're not that great. You're a sitting duck as long as you're firing, and if you're not firing, you're not covering turf.

 

[Beariie]

Next time I want to record my multiplayer matches, I'll try and show some brush games. My main wep is the Splattershot Pro, as I normally prefer long range fighting, but with the rapid fire that really seems to be the advantage (my name IS K7Sniper after all, but the sniper weapons really aren't viable at all in Turf War. if I want to help my team win. If you want to hear me complain about something being useless, get me going about those weapons. Compared to the sniper weps, the brush is beast mode :p). That gun gives me some balance, while allowing me to have some range superiority like I prefer with a drawback of fire rate.

For a frame of my usual play style, my main characters in other games tend to be the all around ones. Personally, I dislike min-maxing, as I want to be able to so a little bit of everything, and let my skill increase specific areas of play. I've played FPS games for decades, and I know what I do best, and that is sniping and range. Though, when I do play melee, I prefer speedsters that allow me to dodge, dip, dive, duck, and dodge; like the Scout in TF2, or the Pyro in ambush mode.

I do believe I've gone on a bit of a tangent. My apologies.

That would be cool to watch, the only videos i can find are ones from when the weapon first came out. And i kind of agree on chargers being under par atm lol.

No worries, It was enjoyable to read and hear about some good experiences =P I feel the same way about being all around playstyle myself. But when it comes to an all around playstyle i feel that you should have to put in a bit more effort.

In regards to the gal weps... They get their paint covering BY killing people. I apologize as I didn't mention that part. When you kill someone, they get splattered with a load of ink, which ups your paint score by a good amount. The gal weapons are made for killing, and they get their ink spread by the enemy kaboom. That is their best method of spreading the colors and upping their score.

No need to apologize on it. I dont see the Gal as being to powerful due to its fire rate, Its kind of like a LMG in a way. Also, Do the gal weapons create more ink then other weapons when splattering an opponent?

In regards to overused weps, there really aren't that many in the game yet (7 main types by my count; splat jr/norm/pro, charger, squelch, roller, brush, aero, blast), so you are always bound to see many who use the same ones in every game, so I can't make a true judgment about that aside from trends, which are aeros and jrs, but that's fine. It's like ARs in most FPS games. Just because they are used a lot doesn't imply they are OP. They just happen to be what people like the most, and in a game whose objective is to paint the most territory, they are all decent for that purpose. There are plenty of counters to all three you mentioned though (flanking and range mainly). And you never mentioned the gal weps. Those are used quite a bit too. So if 4 of the 7 main types are getting use, that's not really signifying anything being OP. It does show variety as more than half are getting regular use, with the rest popping in depending on the map and how well the wielder can utilize it. All the weapons can be low risk if you play them that way by staying out of a firefight, but some do require some practice and skill to master them. You get better, then the reward will be higher as you know how to get the most out of said weapon. If you meant more "noob friendly" or easier to use right off the bat, all games have that. Some weapons do take some real practice. The brush is one of them. It is a specialist weapon. You max your speed on land and get a good ink spread, at the cost of range and power. As much as you may like the brush and want it to be OP for your own needs, it's actually very balanced right now.

I understand that theres limited weapon types. But when i start seeing 4-6 Aero Rgs/Mgs every game for the next 4 or 5 games it just starts to become bland in a way. And yeah, the thing about the weaknesses are true. Things started to look a lot more balanced when kelp dome came out, thank the heavens for this.

My disgust for AR type weapons started in Battlefield 3 or something, Found that they were a bit to excelling at the all around style. High damage, High accuracy + Range, Good fire rate. All of which could kill in 2-4 shots. I found that to be pretty op compared to the other weapons of the game, so maybe I probably brought that hate into this game seeing as how the Machine guns are kind of similar lol.

Also, you wont get carpal tunnel unless you use your wrist, like having to move a mouse for hours on end. Not by clicking the RT button with your finger.

Guess carpel tunnel wasnt the right word then xD. But yeah, there is still a bit of a pain when you click it to fast.

 

[ProfessorJC]

Lmao, sounds like someone is salty af. It's way too early in the meta and even if certain weapons were unbalanced I wouldn't trust anyone here to make balancing decisions.

 

[Splats]

I didn't know that 4 weapons were half the guns in the game. Seriously, be realistic and move on. If you don't agree then ignore it. It's an OPINION. DEAL WITH IT. Seriously I'll probably just delete my account if no one can't handle an OPINION on a FORUM. Wasting your time on such a trivial matter, come on.

 

[Jiggly]

Excuse me if someone has said this, but I think some of these ideas and reasoning is flawed.

52 Gal has really good killing power, but this game isn't about killing. In a deathmatch game, even then it wouldnt be op. One thing that the 52 and 96 gal have issues with turf covering. In a game centrelized around momentum and escape options, and flanking, these weapons are behind. Killing can be important, but if you have a weapon focused on such, it can really drag your team down. So maybe it takes two hits to kill, but it is slow, and thats 2 direct hits. Mobility is crucial, and a smart player wont just be standing in place to get killed. The 52 gal can have issues, and the 96 does too.

Aerosprays do have good firing rate, but it is a straight line, and doesnt cover turf all too well unless you are constantly rotating, which then makes it spotty. It can cover lots of land quickly unclean, or slowly and clean. Ink mines and inkstrikes are nice, but I dont think it pushes it over the edge. It doesnt really help with camping either, especially since camping relies on mobility and spacing, which the sub fails to do.

I can see where you can be upset about dying, but deaths dont bring victory. Even if we do get a team deathmatch mode, we will still rely on movement options and having escape routes, which gals will fail at, and aerosprays will force linear play, m aking you predicatble and easier to kill.

 

[flc]

The game barely has much gun variety in it atm anyways because some guns are just to good and need to be toned down.
-Krak On
-Aero sprays
-Splattershots

They are overused because they are low risk, high reward weapons. You dont see many chargers running around i bet, maybe 1 or 2 every few matches, never a team full of them because it takes work to make them work and to be good at which a ton of people dont like. Unlike Spray guns which anyone can pick up and excel with. Guns like that shouldn't be High rewarding guns for the amount of effort required to use them.

this is addressed to the thread as a whole, but I want to pick on this post in particular because I think it illustrates exactly why nerfing things is a terrible idea this early into the game's existence.

now, to be fair, I'm not sure if you're talking turf or zones here. in the former case, yes, aero and jr are pretty dominant, but high level turf (if such a thing exists) does have emphasis on kills. uncontested aeros and jrs can cover 10% in the time it takes for a team to respawn, but the only way they can be uncontested is if there is nobody to contest them. two and two.

in zones, aero is a mid tier weapon at best (mainly held back by its awful subs). it gets inkstrike/inkzooka fast (the latter of which being very powerful) but is food for the chargers/pros/tteks or whatever on the other team. it can't even safely 1v1 a dual squelcher, which is pretty sad in itself. krak-on is a pubstomping weapon that preys on a lack of organisation and communication. most of the success people find with krak-on comes from its ability to sneak up on people and establish spawn beacons that people don't all notice immediately. the weapon itself, the sub, and the kraken ability are all countered by good organisation, spacing, and positioning, and for that reason, it's almost certainly going to be low tier in 4v4 ranked. nerfing it would make it from a niche weapon into something utterly unusable, and nerfing the aero in any way would likely make it weaker at one of the few things it's good at.

contrast this to the tentatek. the tentatek has virtually no weakpoints that cannot be worked around with a simple adjustment of playstyle (i.e. not facerushing, which you shouldn't be doing anyway), but if nobody on your team is covering the mid while you're off flanking with it, you will execute flanks and get multikills only to realise that your point has been taken because one guy strolled into mid with an aerospray. meanwhile, the two scopes & the classic squiffer are incredibly powerful on organised teams that can abuse, respectively, the defensive lockdown and offensive consistency that these weapons provide. the .52 gal has the ink wall, which basically provides the team with a way to lock down a corridor without having a single person standing in it, while also having killer wail to provide cross-map support to a push from a defensive position. these things, contrary to the krak-on (and a few other weapons as yet unmentioned, such as the blaster), require some level of organisation to function but excel when it is present. imagine if these things were to be buffed for whatever reason. buffing the classic squiffer, for example, would stand a good chance of making the 4v4 meta quad squiffers because of how strong it is.

the tentatek is unquestionably the best weapon in the game right now (even in solo queue with those weaknesses I listed above, it's still the best), and I would still say it's fine as it is. it does its job well enough to make other weapons pointless (though some weapons do that on their own anyway, see rapid blaster & dual squelcher), but that should be fixed by buffing the other weapons into niches that need filling, NOT nerfing the tentatek out of the meta and creating a vacuum.

 

[David]

"So many guns needs to be nurfed"
>names 2 guns

Although I agree that a lot of weapons are op af, has anyone even mentioned that Blaster thing that shoots 1 shot cannonballs at you which are extremely accurate. I use a set up which has several defense stats and it still doesn't save me from getting 1 shotted

We can't say for sure which guns are OP or not yet, since parties aren't allowed yet so we cannot test which 4 weapons work the best together. So for a team based game, the teams overall set up is more important than the individuals. I'd predict the best team combo is Paintbrush, Roller, Sniper and Aerospray for competitive in the future with different specials (orb, kraken, echolocator and ink strike)

 

[Friendan]

It's an OPINION. DEAL WITH IT. Seriously I'll probably just delete my account if no one can't handle an OPINION on a FORUM. Wasting your time on such a trivial matter, come on.

Yes, you are right, this is a forum. On a forum, there is supposed to be discussion, not "lol this is only my opinion imo don't disagree with me". Threatening to delete your account is a stupid thing to do.

-snip-

yeah, pretty much this. It's too early to be nerfing weapons into the ground. Remember how in sm4sh most people thought Little Mac was SS tier at the very beginning? He ended up having a lot of weaknesses and counters. Aerospray is basically Little Mac, it looks good at a first glance, but it isn't "super OP" because it does not kill well, because kills DO matter in this game; it's better to kill someone and then lay down slightly less ink than to lay down ink the entire game, despite what most people say. I agree, the Tentatek is really under-rated in this game (but I haven't done Ranked too much yet, I've really only been doing Turf Wars so I'm not too sure what it's like in higher ranks)

 

[K7Sniper]

Yes, you are right, this is a forum. On a forum, there is supposed to be discussion, not "lol this is only my opinion imo don't disagree with me". Threatening to delete your account is a stupid thing to do.

I was a laughing when I read the kids post. He obviously cannot handle people countering his statement, and it ends up being that the one who said "don't get butthurt" is one who is the most out of everyone.

Honestly, if this is how he reacts to criticism, let him follow through with his little threat.

 

[Nintendome]

Can you guys chill? This is a forum about video games. There's no reason two reasonable people can't disagree politely. You should not argue to be right; you should argue to arrive at a better answer.

 

[Lilguy1456]

If 'so many guns need a nerf,' then relatively speaking, so many guns are evenly powered. If every gun needs a nerf, NO gun needs a nerf. That's so META!

 

[Kevham]

Excuse me if someone has said this, but I think some of these ideas and reasoning is flawed.

52 Gal has really good killing power, but this game isn't about killing. In a deathmatch game, even then it wouldnt be op. One thing that the 52 and 96 gal have issues with turf covering. In a game centrelized around momentum and escape options, and flanking, these weapons are behind. Killing can be important, but if you have a weapon focused on such, it can really drag your team down. So maybe it takes two hits to kill, but it is slow, and thats 2 direct hits. Mobility is crucial, and a smart player wont just be standing in place to get killed. The 52 gal can have issues, and the 96 does too.

Although being horribly Biased towards the .Gals, I'm actually going to have to agree and disagree with this statement. You're spot-on With the difficulty to kill when your target is trying to avoid you,and also with the Gal's lack of flanking power. However, I'm disagreeing with the mobility statement. In turf war, I tend to be one of if not the first person to the splat zone. Using Arowana mall as an example, 7/10 times, i'm the first at the splat zone. The other 3/10 times i get there the same time as an opposing inkbrush. I understand the massive slope in it isnt too roller-friendly, but inkbrushes move at about swim speed, maybe faster. With a hop and a burst of ink, I get from point A to point B damn quickly. In hindsight, Using the deco's seeker to ride behind it may make it even faster. The 96 Definitely has turf covering issues, while the 52 actually doesnt. It may have less fire rate, but it still has a good enough fire rate to be useful in taking turf.

 

[redfeatherraven]

If every gun needs a nerf, NO gun needs a nerf. That's so METAL!

This is how I read it. This is how it should be.

Anyway here's my two cents.

As an Aerospray RG user I'm sure you'll find me biased, but I'd like to point out this - if you're being killed by an Aerospray, then most likely one of two things occurred. Either you rushed my face with a roller (seriously, straight forward, no deviation, every time, I love that so much, please keep up the good work gentlemen) or I got the drop on you (in which case you weren't paying attention to wherever I ambushed you from, but I bet you will going forward).

Splatting people with an Aerospray is like killing people by throwing marshmallows at them. If you're right in my face, certainly, I'll stuff the bag down your throat and call it a day, but otherwise one or two will hit you, you'll laugh it off, and then you'll drop me with something better suited to the task. And anything is. Aero is perhaps the absolute worst gun in the game at actually getting the kill at any range except Up Your Nostrils (And You Should Clean In Here It's Filthy).

Inkzooka aside, Aeros rely almost exclusively on blind luck (spraying into territory where enemies are suspected, hoping they get mired and forget where their Super Jump To Spawn button is; covering turf from a high vantage and picking off an injured, retreating squid; maybe getting that one player who doesn't see the Seeker or Inkstrike coming in time) or subterfuge (dropping in from above, popping out through some part of the ink you didn't anticipate, leading you into an Ink Mine).

Lastly, the gun suffers terribly in Zones. With all your efforts concentrated into one area you nearly always have to get into the fray, where you're weaker than every other gun at the party, and most of the tools that it brings on are better suited to wide-area efforts. Yes, the special charges fast - if you're left alone in a place you can cover a lot of turf. If your opponents leave you alone and let you cover a lot of turf in Zones, either you've run off into a corner and turned the game into an impromptu 3v4 in the name of a single Inkstrike or Inkzooka, or you should check and see that all your opponents haven't accidentally DC'd.

It's also worth noting that the Aero's wide shot spray makes it easier to hit something, but not easier to actually hit it enough. At any range but those mentioned above, an Aero aims like a blind goldfish. Players who want to go that route have generally turned to something like the Splattershot Jr., N-ZAP, or Splat-O-Matic if they wish to keep similar playstyles. If they would rather just get kills, there's a plethora of better options, from Dual Squelchers to Gals to Splattershot/Pros to Tentateks to Blasters to the whole Charger class. I mean you can basically name your price. Pick up a gun, it will kill better.

A few tips, too, just from my personal experience. Before you think you've found The Aerospray Whisperer because he places five shots from the far end of his range to your face, maybe consider the following, as these failures have bolstered my kill count in the past. Did I not back up to plan my next attack when I saw the painfully obvious spray coming at me? Did I get caught in a corner because I chose my escape routes poorly? Did I get caught out of ink? Did I forget to harass back with my own shots during that retreat, or with secondary weapons? Did I not look to hinder his movement towards me in any way? Did I run straight towards him with a roller?

Doing the obverse in any situation listed above has contributed greatly to the Kill Red fund. And may I add, that fund's got a lot more backing than my kill streak, for all the reasons I've listed above, plus some of my own shortcomings.

To any who disagree, I welcome your counterpoints. Get back with me on what weapons and playstyle you favor, and I may be able to tell you more. Worst case, I can give you a strategy that will probably kill me. And hey, after reading through the stuff above, maybe that's something you want to do.

Stay salty squiddos.

 

[meleesplatter]

Although being horribly Biased towards the .Gals, I'm actually going to have to agree and disagree with this statement. You're spot-on With the difficulty to kill when your target is trying to avoid you,and also with the Gal's lack of flanking power. However, I'm disagreeing with the mobility statement. In turf war, I tend to be one of if not the first person to the splat zone. Using Arowana mall as an example, 7/10 times, i'm the first at the splat zone. The other 3/10 times i get there the same time as an opposing inkbrush. I understand the massive slope in it isnt too roller-friendly, but inkbrushes move at about swim speed, maybe faster. With a hop and a burst of ink, I get from point A to point B damn quickly. In hindsight, Using the deco's seeker to ride behind it may make it even faster. The 96 Definitely has turf covering issues, while the 52 actually doesnt. It may have less fire rate, but it still has a good enough fire rate to be useful in taking turf.

The real downside of the .52s compared to .96 is that Defence Up soft counters them by turning them into three shot kills, which
for a slow-firing weapon where every shot counts is kind of a big deal. You could take Offence Up to counter this, but that means giving
up other, more potentially useful skills, and you risk essentially "wasting" slots if they don't use defence.

 

[K7Sniper]

The Aeros are very ambush-oriented. You get good at being able to hide and maneuver in the ink unseen, and they are crazy powerful when it comes to killing due to the spray volume.

Too many people just charge in guns blazing, and I take full advantage of that.

Then again, there are probably a ton of preteen kids playing this game, so being able to outsmart most of them isn't too unprecedented.

 

[CoconutTank]

I don't feel like any particular weapons need a nerf.

I'll admit at first that I was really afraid of the Aerospray RG being overpowered, due to it being the fastest Inkstrike weapon set in the game. A lot of players were using it early on as well. After playing with the RG and against it though, I'm actually not too worried, and I don't see it as often these days. The RG is still a very fast Inkstriker, no doubt, but it gets pushed around very easily until it can actually charge up. The RG going to use its terrible range and unthrowable mine to... do what against a Splattershot or Gal weapon that has a useful sub weapon?

The Aerospray MG on the other hand is a lot less dependent on its special in order to get anything done. Seekers are a very real ranged threat and can also lay down a line of ink for swimming. Inkzookas require more control and timing than Inkstrikes, but I actually find Inkzookas to be way more scary as they don't have any warning, OHKO and cover as much distance as an E-Liter 3K. But the MG still has some range problems since the Seeker can be dodged by diving, and launching a Seeker cost a ton of ink.

Gal weapons are pretty scary as well, but they don't deal too well with enemies that don't fight them head on. None of the Gal weapons have a throwable to cover their flanks or fight around corners. When I used Gal weapons, flanking and corners is usually how I'm dealt with. If I was using a Splattershot Jr. or Splash-o-Matic, I can toss a bomb at my feet and run away if someone is pursuing me, or toss a bomb past a wall or into a narrow intersection if I think someone's trying to ambush me. These aren't really options that Gal weapons can use.

If any changes were to be implemented my silly ideas would be to increase the firing rate of Rapid Blasters by a tiny bit and maybe give Krak-On Rollers mines instead of beacons.

 

[Friendan]

I actually think that the Aerosprays need to be given a beacon, considering that it's more of a support weapon than anything else.

 

[redfeatherraven]

The RG's loadout is just fine in my opinion, inasmuch as it's used as an ambush weapon. Taking turf in a corridor that leads to someone's base, such as the ones in Walleye and Arowana, generally leads to them following you back into it if you retreat, partly to retake, partly to shoot you. Drop a mine on the way back and watch the fireworks.

Even if they don't get dropped by the ambush, the surprise is enough that you should either be able to either finish them off or escape to another location at your discretion, unless you get pincer'd. And hey, if you do, they took two teammates holding an Aerospray and turning the rest of the fight into a 3v2. As long as they didn't just finish cleaning up your team full of face-charging rollers, you should be doing pretty alright.

The MG's loadout strikes me as a bit odder. With ways to carve deep paths into enemy territory and run over resistance, it almost wants to go more directly into combat, while the gun usually does not (and as said elsewhere, the Seeker chews through ink, which compounds a problem the Aero line already has since it wants to fire so much). That said, it'll ready Inkzooka pretty handily if you can stay out of sight of their chargers and headhunters, and that's always a good way to cook up some salty calamari. Sneaking behind a Seeker is always fun as well.

To respond to @Friendan, I wouldn't give either a beacon though. The gun can run deep in the hands of a skilled player, but it really needs the tools it has to stay alive against equally skilled headhunters. Beacon needs to go to a player who can survive fine enough with their primary and special that losing the extra output from their sub is alright; that's why you see it, for example, in the hands of the Krak-On, who has less of an issue there.

 

[Kevham]

Gal weapons are pretty scary as well, but they don't deal too well with enemies that don't fight them head on. None of the Gal weapons have a throwable to cover their flanks or fight around corners. When I used Gal weapons, flanking and corners is usually how I'm dealt with. If I was using a Splattershot Jr. or Splash-o-Matic, I can toss a bomb at my feet and run away if someone is pursuing me, or toss a bomb past a wall or into a narrow intersection if I think someone's trying to ambush me. These aren't really options that Gal weapons can use.

the .52s have decnt-ish subs to escape with, but neither are suited for it. True, the bombs provide a far better at this, but the .52s can do a decent job. The deco Has the seeker. It's be something better to drop down as you run if it didnt cost so much ink and if it was better in tight spots. While the Vanilla .52 has the Splash wall; Pop it down as you run and they have a wall to shoot down or maneuver around. The main fault with the wall when running is that, why would you run? Hurl it infront of you as you run, hop behind it and ink those suckers. If you're in a hallway, they have no way to get past you and nowhere to evade your shots other then abandoning the chase for you. Trouble with corners? no problem, chuck it at an angle and you've got a safe spot to clear 'em out. It's not the best, but it works.

 

[Karonax]

Keep in mind hat not everyone is able to mash there button at a fast pace. Some would also not risk the carpel tunnel.

Inkbrush main here. I use the gyro-controls + mashing the button for the brush, and my wrist does start to hurt after prolonged play sessions.