Some Recycled Brella changes/balance ideas (discussion)

[Stephano2005]

Been putting (at for what I feel is) an okay amount of time into playing Recycled Brella (I'm non-comp so SoloQ) so I wanted to share some thoughts into some changes I think could be interesting to see made to the weapon and some expansion as to what those changes are meant to do/why I thought about them.

Changes:
+ increase canopy HP from 100/200 to 150/300
+ Increase the width of canopy paint when launched to match that of Tenta Brella's
+ increase canopy contact damage 20->25
+ increase canopy regen when swimming from 30->70 HP/second (~1.1 HP/frame) (~2.1 seconds for full regen)
+ increase the radius of paint when inking walls (idk how much but enough to be noticeable but maybe not too much. Possibly somewhere in-between splat and undercover wall paint)

The increased canopy HP should be enough to be notable while not being too much, it would be mostly noticeable when the canopy is launched. The increased paint for the launched canopy will give more benefit for launching the canopy as it will help with the weapon's currently okay to mediocre paint. The increased canopy contact damage will simply make it combo better in situations where you only do 75 damage instead of the full 90. 75 damage is the most common damage I usually get next to the full 90 or a 60 damage shot. The latter of which can be combo'd with marker (assuming opponent isn't running any sub defense). The increased canopy regen is mostly to help when fighting up close to hopefully mitigate the low canopy HP (even with an HP buff). It would also kind of help the launched canopy as it would decrease the amount of time required to regen a notable amount of HP before launching it allowing it to have more HP when launched. The increased wall paint is due to the low shot spread. causing it to not paint walls very well. Which while currently marker helps with that, there's no guarantee that the next kit will have something that can that as well.

 

[Grushi]

Yeah, I like these changes, making the shield launch paint even better is kind of an interesting idea to make up for its poor paint, and I like the shield dealing more damage and having slightly better HP! Oh and I don't know why its HP regen is lower than splat brella, I think that's kind of a pointless weakness.

The wall paint buff could be nice, but I think it's okay if you make sure to paint walls at your maximum range: in case you don't know, with every brella, you can paint walls much more effectively if you make sure your pellets hit the wall when they're the most spread out, so the further you are, the better your paint is. That also works if you shoot at an angle, almost paralel to the wall.


For now, the buffs I'd want are:
- Removing the shield stun when your canopy gets broken without launching it ( ;) @youre_a_squib_now )
- Make the shield launch more ink efficient, or change it so it mostly consumes ink the moment it's launched: that's mostly because you can briefly open your shield in between your shots to help in fights, which is a cool technique that helps a lot on paper, but it's way too ink hungry, if you flare your shield, you basically go from 14 shots to like, 9 maybe.

 

[Stephano2005]

I'm aware about the wall paint being better at farther ranges and going back and looking at it in game it is much better than I had previously thought, so the buff probably isn't as useful as I had initially thought it would be. Although I still think wall paint up close is pretty bad. But line marker is still there to help with that. I think it's HP regen being lower than Splat Brella's kind of makes sense given the lower amount of HP the canopy, however I disagree with how much lower it is. While they both currently regen to full in the same amount of time, the Cycle canopy breaks significantly quicker compared to Splat Brella. So I think better regen is fair, I had considered 90 HP/second but I thought that may be too much so I landed on 70.
A lot of these buffs, with the exceptions of the regen HP, contact damage, and wall paint, were made primarily with canopy launching in mind. Which I view as something the weapon would do often, that's why I focused the paint and HP buff on the (launched) canopy. So most painting would be done with the canopy and you can paint along with it. The HP would hopefully allow it to paint for longer as well as making it easier to follow without it getting instantly destroyed.

The longer I've known about the existence stun I question why it's even a thing, especially on this weapon. Like you're already in a bad situation because the canopy is broken (which isn't exactly difficult to do against Cycle) but now you can't even fight for the small amount of time you have before you get splatted. A broken canopy is punishment enough imo. Also yeah flaring is pretty expensive. That in combination with other factors of the weapon is why I consider it wanting to launch its canopy often. Adjusting it to allow 10-12 shots instead of 9 would be nice.

 

[Grushi]

Yeah, I think that's a good direction for the buffs, tbh I hope nintendo focuses on giving the shield some more utility since I feel like buffing the shots further is kind of a boring direction to take. I'm really curious to see what they end up doing, since even in solo I barely see anyone else playing it, so surely they'll give it something

Or who knows maybe they'll just give it fizzy/ crab tank next season and we'll immediately stop complaining lmao

 

[Stephano2005]

Fizzy/Crab sounds like it could be pretty fire. Also yeah, the shots themselves are fine outside of paint but with the damage, range, and accuracy/spread it's a fair trade off imo.

 

[Stephano2005]

Make the shield launch more ink efficient, or change it so it mostly consumes ink the moment it's launched

Not entirely sure how simple this would be. Maybe it could reverse what it currently does? I believe when Cycle launches sheild it halves the ink consumed when holding it out. So reversing it would make it consume half up until it launches. However this would impact how often it's able to launch the canopy as it would be as expensive as Splat Brella's sheild launch. Which I believe is something the devs specifically went out of their way to not have. So I don't think it's that good of an idea. The only other things I could see is decreasing the consumption by half in general (45%->22.5% per second) and removing the part that halves consumption when launched. Or make it consistently only 15% ink consumed for launch and just change holding to consume less in general.

 

[Bennet]

hey @Stephano2005 I might steal these ideas because I need to know if it is a good idea or bad idea to do brellas when I already main the splatana wiper and the HSR

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Another thing that would be helpful for it is removing the delay between launching the shield and when you can shoot again. If you let go of the shield, you can shoot again almost instantly, but if it launches, by the time the game lets you shoot the shield is already decently far away. I think removing this delay would be beneficial for the same reason as removing the stun thing.

 

[Stephano2005]

It definitely wouldn't hurt, but I don't think that it's as important or helpful as something like the removal of the stun. Although for that short amount of downtime you can't fire when it's launched you have the paint from your shield to swim and move as well as twice the canopy HP. So I think it's not as problematic of a state compared to being stunned when the shield breaks when holding. But that's my opinion.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I don't think it's as important, but it's still important. The delay is actually quite long. Compared to shooting after coming out of swim form, the delay after launching the shield is about the time it takes for 1 shot. So this buff would basically give the brella an extra shot every time it launches the shield. And considering the shield is really easy to launch and will probably be launched a lot, having an extra shot in the middle of a fight would probably be pretty impactful

 

[Stephano2005]

That's fair.

 

[Stephano2005]

hey @Stephano2005 I might steal these ideas because I need to know if it is a good idea or bad idea to do brellas when I already main the splatana wiper and the HSR

Okay.

 

[Grushi]

Not entirely sure how simple this would be. Maybe it could reverse what it currently does? I believe when Cycle launches sheild it halves the ink consumed when holding it out. So reversing it would make it consume half up until it launches. However this would impact how often it's able to launch the canopy as it would be as expensive as Splat Brella's sheild launch. Which I believe is something the devs specifically went out of their way to not have. So I don't think it's that good of an idea. The only other things I could see is decreasing the consumption by half in general (45%->22.5% per second) and removing the part that halves consumption when launched. Or make it consistently only 15% ink consumed for launch and just change holding to consume less in general.

I honestly don't really know how it works, so I just hope shield flaring becomes more ink efficient. I tested it out in the training room and you go from 15 to 8 shots if you open your shield briefly in between (I use two subs of ink saver main), so it's really not optimal in matches

I kind of like the idea of reducing how much ink opening your shield takes, + removing the shield stun, that would basically increase its options in fights, since shield flaring wouldn't be as punishable and wouldn't melt through your ink tank!
I really hope that happens! Would give it more options to use in general, fingers crossed

Another thing that would be helpful for it is removing the delay between launching the shield and when you can shoot again. If you let go of the shield, you can shoot again almost instantly, but if it launches, by the time the game lets you shoot the shield is already decently far away. I think removing this delay would be beneficial for the same reason as removing the stun thing.

That sounds too strong to be honest, I think this weapon being able to insta shoot after launching a shield would be insane to fight, I feel like launching your shield should still have some lag. They could still reduce it a bit, but I think that's a very drastic buff, giving you time to essentially fire one more shot in fights would be very strong

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

They could still reduce it a bit, but I think that's a very drastic buff, giving you time to essentially fire one more shot in fights would be very strong

That's the idea. That plus the ink consumption buff would probably be too much though.

My reasoning for the buff was that if the brella is supposed to be using its shield, which is very fast but low health, it shouldn't be punished for using the shield. And that lag after launching your shield pretty heavily discourages launching it during fights, which I don't think should be discouraged.

 

[a hot mess]

balance idea:
remove it
(i seriously cant stand the thing in turf war its a menace.)

 

[Grushi]

That's the idea. That plus the ink consumption buff would probably be too much though.

My reasoning for the buff was that if the brella is supposed to be using its shield, which is very fast but low health, it shouldn't be punished for using the shield. And that lag after launching your shield pretty heavily discourages launching it during fights, which I don't think should be discouraged.

I guess that's fair, using your shield in fights is a bit too risky as is, so removing some of its downsides would be good for it.
I hope that's the direction nintendo takes, instead of just giving it more hp

 

[Stephano2005]

From my perspective it's not meant to launch canopy during fights or even do too much flaring. It launches it when going to engage or right before fights (basically instead of fighting with your shield you fight alongside it) as well as using it in the downtime between fights. That's why I don't find the launch->fire delay that impactful or relevant. Or at least if it does launch during a fight it's done at a comfortable distance to where said delay isn't a big deal. The weapon has enough range and damage to do so somewhat comfortably. (of course with the exceptions of weapons that can out range/damage it) Or even if it did launch the shield in the middle of a close proximity fight it would still have a shield that is painting and is double the HP compared to before it being launched so it's probably safe long enough for the delay to be negligible. However on the subject of flaring, it would be foolish for me to say that a player wouldn't end up in a situation where they need fight and flare. It's for that reason why despite what I had said before in a previous thread I have come around to the idea of the removal of the stun, as inevitably the shield will break and will likely do so fast when fighting and flaring so I think for those situations that the removal of the stun could be helpful in confirming kills or at least trading in that situation. Same with the shield regen increase I had proposed, as being able to swim regen in-between flaring in close proximity fights hopefully would help mitigate the low canopy HP in that situation.
(side note: I have learned this there are options for creating lists and tables, that's very cool)

 

[OnePotWonder]

Not bad, certainly, but there's another direction I think this weapon could take, a much funnier one:

• Increase canopy HP from 100 to 150
• Reduce the time between losing shield (launch or break) and being able to fire by 5 frames
• Increase canopy HP recovery (HP/s) from 30 to 60
• Increase canopy damage from 20 to 60

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

From my perspective it's not meant to launch canopy during fights or even do too much flaring. It launches it when going to engage or right before fights (basically instead of fighting with your shield you fight alongside it) as well as using it in the downtime between fights. That's why I don't find the launch->fire delay that impactful or relevant. Or at least if it does launch during a fight it's done at a comfortable distance to where said delay isn't a big deal. The weapon has enough range and damage to do so somewhat comfortably. (of course with the exceptions of weapons that can out range/damage it) Or even if it did launch the shield in the middle of a close proximity fight it would still have a shield that is painting and is double the HP compared to before it being launched so it's probably safe long enough for the delay to be negligible. However on the subject of flaring, it would be foolish for me to say that a player wouldn't end up in a situation where they need fight and flare. It's for that reason why despite what I had said before in a previous thread I have come around to the idea of the removal of the stun, as inevitably the shield will break and will likely do so fast when fighting and flaring so I think for those situations that the removal of the stun could be helpful in confirming kills or at least trading in that situation. Same with the shield regen increase I had proposed, as being able to swim regen in-between flaring in close proximity fights hopefully would help mitigate the low canopy HP in that situation.
(side note: I have learned this there are options for creating lists and tables, that's very cool)

The launched shield is a great tool to get in range to hit opponents, but due to it only lasting 2.8 seconds, you're going to get it back and want to use it again in any fight that isn't a 1v1. I do see your point now about how this buff isn't relevant to how this weapon wants to play most of the time, but while it is better for it to end fights quickly, that doesn't always happen, and in the situations where the buff does help, I think it would help quite a bit.

 

[Stephano2005]

Fair. At least one of it's existing problems got fixed. (also sorry for the long wait on a response)