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Splatdashing correctly: the advanced movement option

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Flying_Tortoise, May 21, 2015.

  1. Youngster Skaymore

    Youngster Skaymore Full Squid

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    See, this is the kind of discussion we should be having. We should be discussing the utility of splatterdashing, since it is the fastest way (we know of) to move over uninked turf, and not whether splatdashing is faster than walking and swimming.
     
  2. ThisFungi

    ThisFungi 8-bit crazy!

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    Whether the player dies or not is not the point. It's about having the ink necessary to be able to maneuver more securely. The enemy team can easily disreguard the team that rushed and go around the center to fill areas that aren't inked, along with a special they have at the ready because they covered ground more. And... there's the problem with prioritizing speed over ink. The team that rushed won't have enough resources to fight (or fall) back with.

    The team that rushed would be setting themselves up to something called a flanking maneuver. Simply put, that's when one team has the enemy team attack forward while other groups (or players for Splatoon) would go and position themselves to an area that the enemy going forward would be more prone to defeat. An example of what I mean is this neat diagram of the Battle of Marathon, executing a maneuver called the double-envelopment.

    [​IMG]

    Another example is the pincer movement. It's similar to what I posted above, however instead of going for the enemy they can just go around them. Here's an image for what I mean:

    [​IMG]

    The team with more ink is able to pull these kind of techniques and more because they put themselves at less of a risk than the ones that quickly maneuver to a specific position.

    Slow and steady wins the race. Splatoon makes good use of that idea. It's what makes this game a lot different from other shooters where speed is necessary to stay ahead of the competition.
     
  3. Youngster Skaymore

    Youngster Skaymore Full Squid

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    I absolutely love the gif in your signature. It's like it was made for splatoon
     
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  4. Mondrae205

    Mondrae205 Senior Squid

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    I think the argument they are making is that with good teamwork that won't work, at least as well. Plus the fat that there are many areas to be covered in splatoon there weren't be as many flanking maneuvers, or that you can get the highground and be ale to see flanks coming.
     
  5. ndayadn

    ndayadn yeah

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    I admire the use of irl military techniques... but can we really say for certain what works best at this point in time? Like let's forget the use of splatdashing completely at this point, because that's not what I'm contesting. I know that it's the fastest non-swimming movement, no argument there. Personal experience in unoptimized lobbies kind of showed me that sometimes getting somewhere first mattered, and sometimes it didn't. It depended on what the enemy team did. Sometimes in Rig the team would never come to the North section (despite having claimed it and gotten there first) and would instead just contest everywhere else. I had instances of both winning and losing because of this.
    Point is, I suppose that maybe it won't matter. Which is actually kind of exciting and fun imo. If you were lucky to have played matches where both teams were "good," the same turf is lost and gained sometimes 3 or 4 times in a single match. I think people are forgetting a little that this isn't a standard game. It doesn't always matter that a certain area is on lockdown, because everyone can just go "ok well screw this" and run away and ink somewhere else. Maybe it will turn out that it takes an average of a minute to lose/gain an area, and therefore you want to get there first/second. But then always remember that literally almost the entire stage is worth inking. There are ways to win in Rig without taking the top, and the game may support different playstyles even competitively.

    I dunno, just my take on it :V
     
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  6. Bottlecapn

    Bottlecapn Inkling Commander

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    See, there's four people on a team. You take 4 separate paths and bam, you got yourself a wall. Unless you're a roller ofc. Rollers should stick with someone. Also going along the sides takes more time than going straight forward. The shortest point from Line A to Line B (considering the choke points of the central area are the lines) is a straight, perpendicular segment.
     
  7. Gsnap

    Gsnap Full Squid

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    You're absolutely right, but I think, when considering competitive play with coordinated teams, due to the symmetrical nature of maps, specific loadouts with specific purposes, and quantifiable value of territory, teams will come up with opening strategies, and then will have to adapt strategies depending on how the match plays out. Yes, you're entire team should not defend only the north of Saltspray. Because then the other team will ink everything else and have a higher percentage than you. However, if you can take the north platform quickly, while others on your team are contesting other areas, you put yourself in a positional advantage that the enemy team has to deal with or risk a loss. What happens after that, who knows. And then there are other maps that probably won't see this type of strategy. Because it's true that certain maps will allow for flanking like mentioned before. Saltspray doesn't, really. There's only 3 (sort of) ways into the north and they're all around the same area. The back platform is all on it's own and require a forward assault to take.

    But yes, it will not surprise me at all if common opening strategies involve getting a certain amount of your team to high value areas quickly.
     
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  8. Bottlecapn

    Bottlecapn Inkling Commander

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    Wait, it just hit me. Are we even going to play Turf War in competitive Splatoon?
     
  9. Life

    Life Senior Squid

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    I'm just gonna pretend as if I know what I'm talking about for a second.

    One reason that pincer attacks work is surface area: if they have 1000 soldiers surrounded by your 1000 soldiers, you can have all 1000 soldiers attacking at once, but their central guys can't attack until their comrades fall and give them a space to step into, giving you the advantage; if the two armies just run at each other, it's an even match. It works in real life, it works in at least one other game I'm aware of (Starcraft, where they call it a "concave"), and I see no reason it wouldn't work in Splatoon as well (although to be fair, running away is pretty easy in Splatoon, so terrain is a much bigger factor than how good the concave is in this situation).

    Another reason is that their mobility is limited when you get a surround. This applies to both Inklings and ink: if you've ever tried to back up from a Roller only to find yourself trodding through enemy ink or getting shot by the person who snuck in behind you, you'll know why this is an issue, even if the rest of your team is standing on top of you.

    There are situations where surrounding the opponent isn't the best idea, mainly when it would involve pinning yourself to a wall or whatever. But generally speaking, it's going to be a good tactic in any game that involves many units in combat.
     
  10. Gsnap

    Gsnap Full Squid

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    If it's a mode in party matchmaking in August, I hope we do.

    But yeah, it might not be. haha
     
  11. RiDEL

    RiDEL Semi-Pro Squid

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    Would it be possible to see all game modes used in competitive? I mean they all look relativity fast paced with they're own differing strategies that would make the meta ripe for diverse gameplay.
     
  12. Citrus

    Citrus Inkling Cadet

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    Sweet! This seems a lot better than the splathop in most situations, although both will be crucial im sure.
     
  13. WydrA

    WydrA Inkling Commander

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    We get it Setu. Nothing in splatoon is ever worthy of being called tech.

    On the topic of game modes, it has been discussed that several modes might be used in faceoffs so the winner proves they are the best across all modes (or the majority of modes) but it's not certain yet. Competitive modes isn't something we'll know for quite some time I think. It all depends on weapions, strategies, maps, and pretty much anything else that effects gameplay.

    Also I'd like to point out that getting north first is a huuuuuuge advantage. You guys talk about being outnumbered, but I've actually been alone in north this last play seesion while they had 3 other members there, and they couldn't kill me, and I was able to safely undo a lot of their work while they were trying to ink it. Stood my ground until someone superjumped to me and we were able to reclaim it. The high ground and maneuverability the containers provide makes you very, very hard to kill. And it was n't just the other team sucking or me being good, I simply had much more range and visibility than them. I could see their every move and shoot them before they shot me. If pressure was too intense it's very easy to disappear on and around the containers.

    Also i'm not sure i see the pincer working in north. How do you get "around" it? There's a choke point to get in, it's not a plain. I might be misunderstanding the technique or what you're suggesting it be used though, @ThisFungi
     
  14. Setu

    Setu Moderator
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    Actually there was a lot more to my post than me giving reasons to why nothing is splatoon is worthy of being called a tech, it was actually about the use of splatdashing.
     
  15. PixL

    PixL Inkster Jr.

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    I get where the nay-Sayers are coming from, but speed is KING for stuff like this. The entire team isn't going to be racing to one area like a school of fish, that isn't the point of this tactic. It's simply: Get to a point FASTER before your enemy and control it. Another thing is....Isn't everyone trying to rush to multiple points for control anyway? Why not do this if it's faster then? And just look at how quickly it can get you out of a bind with enemy ink at your feet! Throw some jumping into the mix and you're a bothersome target to strike. And even then, out-racing your opponent and going for the kill is also very important because it buys you and your allies more time to ink the turf. Inb4 "it doesn't cover as much ground" Worry about covering the enemy's tracks more than spraying literally every corner, if you die or kill enough of the other team off then you can worry about covering your tracks.

    TL;DR It's a smart tactic than can offer anywhere between a little hop and a big leap.
     
  16. ThisFungi

    ThisFungi 8-bit crazy!

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    Good reading on the map design. Although I think it can still work if the team is positioned well (i.e. just before entering the choke point). While there's still a small gap before entering the center there should be ink covering behind the team before they execute the maneuver so they can escape if things don't go to plan. Otherwise... yeah, it ain't gonna work. xD
     
  17. Snacks

    Snacks Inkling

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    I said it before and I'll say it again since these arguments are going nowhere.

    People are not against splatdashing because they think speed is unimportant or unneeded. These are not the things you should be trying to prove in your counter arguments.

    The main reason is because there is no proof that it is the fastest way to get around. It was tested by me and others, even the guy who made the video for the fastest way to splatdash, and we all came to the conclusion that ink trails are just as fast if not faster than splatdashing. And if they are just as fast, there is no reason to splatdash since ink trails have a lot more pros in other areas to make them the better choice.

    Whether or not getting to mid fast is a "HUUUUUGE ADVANTAGE" can be left for another thread about the meta in general once the game actually comes out, that's not the topic here. If you want to prove that splatdashing is viable, I want to see a properly timed proof with optimised ink trails as well as optimised splatdash. After seeing what FunkyLobster thought an optimised ink trail looked like I get the feeling that possibly the rest of you are terrible misinformed on ink trails movement potential as well, which is why some of you think so highly of splatdash and ignorantly claim that there is no way ink trails can be faster; because you were doing it wrong to begin with.
     
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  18. Bottlecapn

    Bottlecapn Inkling Commander

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    as has been previously stated within this thread several times. 3 of them were by me...
     
  19. Youngster Skaymore

    Youngster Skaymore Full Squid

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    It is not for going thorugh your own ink, it is for going through unclaimed or enemy territory, so it being slower than going through ink trails is irrelevant
     
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  20. Flying_Tortoise

    Flying_Tortoise Sushi Chef

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    Guys just wait the 3 hours til the game comes out. Experiment for a day. Then comeback and discuss. I will say that with the testfire experience I have S-dash atm appears that it is useful in enemy ink as an escape option, although mb a gun with a slow firerate can benefit.
    But again let me reiterate just test it when you guys get the game.
    and most importantly ...Have Fun :D!!
    I'd say more for enemy ink, for an escape option but who knows maybe someone finds a better way to do it
     

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