Splatoon 2: Find Out What's Fresh! (General Discussion)

[Green Waffles]

but at least there's always Nintendo to redeem it some.

=[

On a sillier note
@Ansible that pic now reminds me not only of balding mer-people, but also of

Spoiler: this

 

[Drew Sebastino]

@Green Waffles Damn... That video is so true it hurts...

 

[Award]

My point is that pretty much nobody dies before they had the chance to throw the Ink Storm.

And seperating people from free stuff is working out better these days than ever. Not to mention we, again, don't know what exactly is included with the online stuff and that it's the standard these days.

People get killed often enough with the ink storm if they don't back away safely. That's what we're saying. Storm you can't just activate in the middle of an ambush mob and still get your special. They can easily kill you first. Armor you CAN...It's a zombie weapon. If you slam the button just before you die you upload the launch sequence to the satellite targeting system and Armageddon can not be stopped as the pool of ink that was your inkling cackles madly at his foes "You've accomplished nothing! I've already won!! Mwahaha!"

Separating people who have money from said money is easier than ever. Separating people from free things they already have will no get easier. Despite the "booming stock market" (just before it goes boom....) it's a polarized economy, if you're not moving upward, you're moving downward. It's easier to separate the one group from their stuff, and harder the other group, as evidenced by the people in this very thread who will not be continuing to play despite being the Splatoon hardcore due to the paywall. If that's how the hardcore respond...imagine mass market? If it were at launch people would have simply accepted it as part of the platform and moved on based on their choice. Introducing it part way through....I mean I can ALREADY hear the whining sound, can't you? Are you new to Internet? Would you like a tour? :P

To PS3 owners they are suddenly introduced to a pay wall if they want to keep playing the latest/best version of CoD/GTA/etc, that's how it's similar. Of course not all PS4 owners had a PS3, but surely a good number of them did and had no issue upgrading. Another point is the sudden paywall introduction wont actually be sudden to most Switch owners. Switch will probably be hovering above 20 million come September, and it's safe to say it will end up selling way more than that lifetime. The pay to play will already be there for every new Switch owner from September onwards.

This isn't on the same level as the always online DRM nonsense Microsoft was trying to pull though. Paid online atleast is optional and doesn't interfere with your gaming experience, but even Nintendo got plenty of bad PR after the Switch event for the aforementioned pay to play, high price accessorys, 1-2 Switch existing, weak launch line-up, poor battery life, and so ons. As we can see though, it wasn't bad enough!

But the difference as you say is it was new hardware. It's one thing when the hardware generation rolls over and you have to buy a fancy new machine and "oh look it requires a subscription." versus buying a new machine that doesn't require one and then one day it does a period of time later after you've invested in online games. While you're right it won't be new after September to new owners, there are already more Switch owners than total WiiU owners. "majority" is irrelevant. It's a large group of noisy people on the internet. Remember when Spore got all 1-star reviews on Amazon due to the DRM? And more recently Gran Turismo: Sport was riddled with 1&2 star reviews due to the always-online, and even the Metacritic score plunged to show a bad game mostly due to even critics pillorying the always-online aspect that even solo play won't save if it's not online? You don't need a majority for a PR nightmare. You just need "a lot of angry noisy people on the internet". "Left joycon" is a running meme thanks to that already and that was the nerdy ultra-Nintendo-fan early adopter pool.

I'm not saying charging for service at all is a PR nightmare. I'm saying not doing it 6+ months ago is going to make it a PR nightmare if they're still bent on doing this. Not for me. I've known since day 1. I expected it in time for the Splatoon launch, and see this all as free play time that was a nice bonus. But I don't mean us. I mean THEM. And there are tens of millions of THEM. And they're all on the internet.

Do you need a tour of Internet as well? :P To our right, we have Instagram, and if you look in the distance over this balcony here, you see that plume of thick black smoke? That's Facebook.....

Not really related to the current discussion, but I love how much people complained about the Switch's poor battery life, but also went on to complain that it still wasn't powerful enough. It's like getting a V8 and complaining about the gas mileage, but then wishing you had a supercharger as well. Of course, the dock is really just a big plastic box, so they could have at least improved TV mode performance.

LOL very true. They gave us a USB-C port with USB Power Delivery support.....which for nintendo is amazing. That really solved the battery life issue in general.

People keep saying they could have improved performance in the dock though...which makes no sense. You'd need a whole other console inside the dock to offload processing to different, faster hardware. You can't just magically run the existing hardware faster than peak (other than running it at peak vs. underclocked in handheld as it already does.) There's eGPU which in addition to being crazy expensive, doesn't help the CPU anyway.

While I complain about the battery life, power is actually right where I want it to be. Games can always look better of course, but the way they look right now on Switch is perfectly fine for me. Granted, I'm one who has no problems playing games on the 240p 3DS hehe.

Most games actually do run better docked, not because of the dock itself, but because the Switch can run at full power while plugged in. ARMS is 1080p docked vs. 720p in handheld for example.

Splatoon 2 is as well, of course!

Processing power is pretty much irrelevant in the age of 2+GHz CPUs; I'm just echoing what many others have said. It does baffle me how poorly some games can run though on even modern hardware due to incompetent developers: look no further than Player Unknown Battlegrounds. Instead of enabling better graphics, more powerful hardware is being used more and more as a band-aid for awful programming, which does nothing but screw over the consumer.

The fact that there are only a handful of games that run at 4K, 60fps on the Xbox One X, is just completely pathetic, not necessarily due to the hardware (which is actually pretty ridiculous), but the programmers. Most of these people's eyes would pop out of their head if they learned that 1993 Doom ran at the full hardcoded 35fps (the refresh rate was 70Hz) on a 66MHz CPU with no hardware graphics acceleration. Of course, with the deadlines imposed by the corporate higher ups at wonderful companies like Activision, Ubisoft, and EA, you can't put sole blame on the developers. The modern video game industry as a whole is a dumpster fire, but at least there's always Nintendo to redeem it some.

Same old same old. Poor Windows optimization is the reason the Pentium era through C2D era especially was stuck with constant Wintel upgrading....new hardware has always just been used to make inefficient code run almost as well as the old efficient code making it cheaper and faster to produce. Now with the rise of interpereted library middleware like Java and .net taking over most everything and the elimination of most low level code, "Hello World" needs a P4 and 2GB ram..... :P Why spend months on efficiency when you can abstract everything to 2 lines that uses a huge library? Work smarter, not harder, then work endlessly to afford a quantum computer that can run a simple order form.

Never thought it would infect gaming though....

 

[SquidKid85]

=[

On a sillier note
@Ansible that pic now reminds me not only of balding mer-people, but also of

Spoiler: this

I saw that before. Cracks me up.

This is the new official video of this thread and it shall be hailed as so.

 

[Dewnose]

I hereby hail the video @Green Waffles posted as the official video of this thread.

 

[Drew Sebastino]

People keep saying they could have improved performance in the dock though...which makes no sense. You'd need a whole other console inside the dock to offload processing to different, faster hardware. You can't just magically run the existing hardware faster than peak (other than running it at peak vs. underclocked in handheld as it already does.) There's eGPU which in addition to being crazy expensive, doesn't help the CPU anyway.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Of course, having to add a whole other GPU it isn't very economical... I don't actually think the CPU needs help; from my understanding, it's the most powerful part of the system proportional to everything else. Of course, developers never cease to disappoint... The less powerful but cheaper alternative would be to try and help with cooling. While the Switch already has an onboard fan, I wonder if you could cool it off further by running air over the back of it, as it gets fairly warm.

Splatoon 2 is as well, of course!

Well, in the best possible scenario. In reality, it's more like 800p to 900p. It's actually a bit annoying sometimes; while it's much harder to notice during an actual match (where it typically stays lower anyway) the game does often rapidly switch back and forth between resolutions, particularly at the match starting sequence and the end with the overhead view of the stage. (I have no idea why it does this here; if it is actually rerendering the stage every frame, that's pointless.) I think it's a bit disappointing that the game doesn't run at a locked 1080p considering how basic most of the geometry is and whatnot, but it's really not that bothersome.

Same old same old. Poor Windows optimization is the reason the Pentium era through C2D era especially was stuck with constant Wintel upgrading....new hardware has always just been used to make inefficient code run almost as well as the old efficient code making it cheaper and faster to produce. Now with the rise of interpereted library middleware like Java and .net taking over most everything and the elimination of most low level code, "Hello World" needs a P4 and 2GB ram..... :p Why spend months on efficiency when you can abstract everything to 2 lines that uses a huge library? Work smarter, not harder, then work endlessly to afford a quantum computer that can run a simple order form.

Keep preaching the truth! :) People act as if assembly is some sort of black-magic, although admittedly, having to deal with ridiculous new processor instruction sets (with 13 letter opcodes...) and Windows bs makes it so difficult to optimize for that it would likely be more efficient to just use C, which sadly isn't that popular either because it's still "too difficult".

I can't wait until we hit that 5nm wall; I'd like to see how software developers can work their way out of that. Well, actually, we'll probably then just start using less resistive materials than silicon.

 

[Cyan]

All you guys complaining about Ink Armor are wrong. The real OP special is Splashdown, you can become invincible forever and become a massive distraction to the enemy team allowing a free win for you:


No, I did not find this glitch, and yes this is a joke :P

As a bonus have this video where the camera started acting weird because it was getting caught on the upper floor:

 

[Windstar]

For the sake of stirring up some discussion, what would be the most broken weapon combination?

I think a Squid Beakon + Splashdown weapon would be just insane, but I’m not sure what sort of main weapon could benefit from that kind of set.

 

[Yin_]

For the sake of stirring up some discussion, what would be the most broken weapon combination?

I think a Squid Beakon + Splashdown weapon would be just insane, but I’m not sure what sort of main weapon could benefit from that kind of set.

Add this to a different hydra splatling. I want it to be broken

 

[Green Waffles]

Just sharing this juicy new blog post from FLC.
Guy's got great insight on spatoon metagame.
https://flc.imperious.ink/

 

[Ansible]

For the sake of stirring up some discussion, what would be the most broken weapon combination?

I think a Squid Beakon + Splashdown weapon would be just insane, but I’m not sure what sort of main weapon could benefit from that kind of set.

Depending on whether or not you want to toss out the Sploosh for already having a Splashdown. Let the NZap, Splash, and Aerospray fight over it. Stack some quick super jump. Then learn how to quickly open your map and click on the beakon. That way you can immediately drop a beakon, jump to it, then splashdown at moments inconvenient for the other party.

For added kicks, stack sub-power up so anyone can jump to the beakons faster and booyah when there are other splash-beakons on your team... because they know today's forecast is meteor showers.

 

[Dewnose]

Hmm, not much can top that...

(laughs maniacally)

How about Inkmine + Stingray?

 

[Windstar]

Hmm, not much can top that...

(laughs maniacally)

How about Inkmine + Stingray?

Really depends on the main weapon. That’s something I could see a Splatling using.

 

[Dewnose]

Really depends on the main weapon. That’s something I could see a Splatling using.

You mean, so it can use the kit outside of a combo?

I’m just imagining getting hit with a random Inkmine near your spawn, going like ‘Oh whatever,’ then getting pwn’d with a Stingray. Perfect troll kit. Not that I troll though, seriously.
It’d also be great for map control, since you don’t even need to be in that part of the map. Of course, you’d need to be great at Stingray.

EDIT: Great, now you all think I troll...

 

[Lonely_Dolphin]

Separating people who have money from said money is easier than ever. Separating people from free things they already have will no get easier. Despite the "booming stock market" (just before it goes boom....) it's a polarized economy, if you're not moving upward, you're moving downward. It's easier to separate the one group from their stuff, and harder the other group, as evidenced by the people in this very thread who will not be continuing to play despite being the Splatoon hardcore due to the paywall. If that's how the hardcore respond...imagine mass market? If it were at launch people would have simply accepted it as part of the platform and moved on based on their choice. Introducing it part way through....I mean I can ALREADY hear the whining sound, can't you? Are you new to Internet? Would you like a tour? :p

But the difference as you say is it was new hardware. It's one thing when the hardware generation rolls over and you have to buy a fancy new machine and "oh look it requires a subscription." versus buying a new machine that doesn't require one and then one day it does a period of time later after you've invested in online games. While you're right it won't be new after September to new owners, there are already more Switch owners than total WiiU owners. "majority" is irrelevant. It's a large group of noisy people on the internet. Remember when Spore got all 1-star reviews on Amazon due to the DRM? And more recently Gran Turismo: Sport was riddled with 1&2 star reviews due to the always-online, and even the Metacritic score plunged to show a bad game mostly due to even critics pillorying the always-online aspect that even solo play won't save if it's not online? You don't need a majority for a PR nightmare. You just need "a lot of angry noisy people on the internet". "Left joycon" is a running meme thanks to that already and that was the nerdy ultra-Nintendo-fan early adopter pool.

I'm not saying charging for service at all is a PR nightmare. I'm saying not doing it 6+ months ago is going to make it a PR nightmare if they're still bent on doing this. Not for me. I've known since day 1. I expected it in time for the Splatoon launch, and see this all as free play time that was a nice bonus. But I don't mean us. I mean THEM. And there are tens of millions of THEM. And they're all on the internet.

Do you need a tour of Internet as well? :p To our right, we have Instagram, and if you look in the distance over this balcony here, you see that plume of thick black smoke? That's Facebook.....

It's funny you say that since internet dwellers are the ones who are especially aware of the paid online and have already complained about it. Social media is exactly why anyone on the internet will know about it. I'd imagine most of the people who'll own a Switch prior to September are the more dedicated players who've already complained, while the more casual players will wait for bigger library, price drops, bundles n remodels, and then have no problem paying because that's "just what you do" sadly. Of course there'll be some that complain as there always are, but not enough to make a significant impact.

What do you find to be more important, the console we play games on, or the games we buy the console for the first place? I think most would agree on the latter, thus the difference of start of gen vs. mid gen doesn't really matter. Games that used to be free are being locked behind a paywall all the same, that's what would matter to most. Similarly, when the paid online happens certainly doesn't matter more than paid online happening at all to begin with, yet that along with many other bigger problems did not hinder the Switch out of the gate. Bad PR is never wanted of course, but not necessarily the end all you're making it out to be as the Switch continues to prove.

Hmm, not much can top that...

(laughs maniacally)

How about Point Sensor + Stingray?

Fixed! It's probably no accident that there's no weapon with that kit.

 

[Saber]

@Green Waffles
Just ran into playing the squeezer, and kept trying to get your attention. (I was the annoying scoped charger on the enemy team)

Although even I don't know how I got away from you and that custom splattershot jr.
For some unknow reason every time I pick up a scope I become an escape artisit with terrible aim

 

[Award]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Of course, having to add a whole other GPU it isn't very economical... I don't actually think the CPU needs help; from my understanding, it's the most powerful part of the system proportional to everything else. Of course, developers never cease to disappoint... The less powerful but cheaper alternative would be to try and help with cooling. While the Switch already has an onboard fan, I wonder if you could cool it off further by running air over the back of it, as it gets fairly warm.


Well, in the best possible scenario. In reality, it's more like 800p to 900p. It's actually a bit annoying sometimes; while it's much harder to notice during an actual match (where it typically stays lower anyway) the game does often rapidly switch back and forth between resolutions, particularly at the match starting sequence and the end with the overhead view of the stage. (I have no idea why it does this here; if it is actually rerendering the stage every frame, that's pointless.) I think it's a bit disappointing that the game doesn't run at a locked 1080p considering how basic most of the geometry is and whatnot, but it's really not that bothersome.


Keep preaching the truth! :) People act as if assembly is some sort of black-magic, although admittedly, having to deal with ridiculous new processor instruction sets (with 13 letter opcodes...) and Windows bs makes it so difficult to optimize for that it would likely be more efficient to just use C, which sadly isn't that popular either because it's still "too difficult".

I can't wait until we hit that 5nm wall; I'd like to see how software developers can work their way out of that. Well, actually, we'll probably then just start using less resistive materials than silicon.

I forgot about the dynamic resolution. Though Splatoon 1.5...err...2 suffers from the same problem BotW and XC2 do: It's a WiiU game inside and is best treated as though it were an X360 port as a result. The structure of the engine is still meant for PPC, not ARM, and still meant for the AMD GPU. There's only so far you can optimize that in a short space of time. Odyssey I think gives a much better taste of what pure Switch games can be. Splatoon 1.5, lets face it, was funneled out as fast as they could get it out after cutting support for Splatoon 1.

In terms of cooling, I'm not sure even with an external cooling solution you'd want to try to OC the Tegra. Shield did that and the results were mixed.

It's funny you say that since internet dwellers are the ones who are especially aware of the paid online and have already complained about it. Social media is exactly why anyone on the internet will know about it. I'd imagine most of the people who'll own a Switch prior to September are the more dedicated players who've already complained, while the more casual players will wait for bigger library, price drops, bundles n remodels, and then have no problem paying because that's "just what you do" sadly. Of course there'll be some that complain as there always are, but not enough to make a significant impact.

What do you find to be more important, the console we play games on, or the games we buy the console for the first place? I think most would agree on the latter, thus the difference of start of gen vs. mid gen doesn't really matter. Games that used to be free are being locked behind a paywall all the same, that's what would matter to most. Similarly, when the paid online happens certainly doesn't matter more than paid online happening at all to begin with, yet that along with many other bigger problems did not hinder the Switch out of the gate. Bad PR is never wanted of course, but not necessarily the end all you're making it out to be as the Switch continues to prove.



Fixed! It's probably no accident that there's no weapon with that kit.

Social media people aren't the "internet dwellers", it's two different groups. We're the internet dwellers. And yes, we are all aware. But plenty of casual people have bought into Switch early. That's the thing with Switch. It doesn't appeal to just console fans, and it's the rare case where the console you play on matters as much as the games you play on it, because it's fairly exotic in not being just a black box (or "a box to play Mario on" as Yamauchi called the NES.) The form factor itself is part of the incentive to play. So this once, the horse SHOULD go before the cart. Normally I'd have agreed with you on any other console though.

I do stick with it though. It's not what, it's when. 1.5 years past launch after tons of online games.....and a large non-dedicated audience, it's not going to go over well. Will it destroy Switch? No of course not. But it will be controversy. And controversy is still best avoided (unless you're a celebrity in which case it boosts your image :P ) , and this one could easily have been avoided.

 

[Drew Sebastino]

Splatoon 1.5, lets face it, was funneled out as fast as they could get it out after cutting support for Splatoon 1.

Yeah, this was pretty obvious. I'm not exactly Splatoon 2's biggest fan, in case you couldn't already pick that up, but perhaps what is the most upsetting to me about it is what it potentially means to the franchise. I'm not looking forward to another Splatoon game with marginal improvements (improvements often being debatable) every two years, especially with the insane amount of grinding in this game.

I do stick with it though. It's not what, it's when. 1.5 years past launch after tons of online games.....and a large non-dedicated audience, it's not going to go over well. Will it destroy Switch? No of course not. But it will be controversy. And controversy is still best avoided (unless you're a celebrity in which case it boosts your image :p ) , and this one could easily have been avoided.

I'd really like to know how many people even here think they would be interested in paying for the online service. Of course, we're probably more into Splatoon as a whole than the general public. Heck, I'll set up a poll for it. Unless they actually improve the online functionality in some way (options for regional or worldwide matchmaking, higher tickrate, public voice chat) then count me out.

 

[Dewnose]

Yeah, this was pretty obvious. I'm not exactly Splatoon 2's biggest fan, in case you couldn't already pick that up, but perhaps what is the most upsetting to me about it is what it potentially means to the franchise. I'm not looking forward to another Splatoon game with marginal improvements (improvements often being debatable) every two years, especially with the insane amount of grinding in this game.


I'd really like to know how many people even here think they would be interested in paying for the online service. Of course, we're probably more into Splatoon as a whole than the general public. Heck, I'll set up a poll for it. Unless they actually improve the online functionality in some way (options for regional or worldwide matchmaking, higher tickrate, public voice chat) then count me out.

Can you do that pls? I’d like to see. I would do it, they have Salmon Run after all :D

 

[MINKUKEL]

Splatoon is a type of game that devs can quickly make a sequel for, and considering the Wii U was going to be replaced less than 2 years after S1 debuted and the Japanese are absolutely crazy for Splatoon, it made sense for them to quickly crank another game out. I don't see how that necessarily has to lead to Splatoon 3 being similar yet again. Though tbh, Splatoon is the kind of game you'll get many more hours out of than single-player games even if they are similar, so if there's any series I can forgive for doing that, it's this one. But I don't see any reason to be worried yet.

Most people here probably reached at least the 100h mark, probably a large portion has played over 200h, so I let's not be too ungrateful, shall we?

And we'll see soon enough if the paid online will cause any controversy, but I'd bet good money it'll go over completely smooth.