Super Sea Snails: how will we get them?

[Niliks]

It isn't unfair though. Everyone has the same chances at every possible combination. The fact that some players will play more and therefore have more theoretical shots at getting it through Spyke is not the game system being unfair, it's a fact of most anything that the more you do it the more of an advantage you will have over someone that does it less. If anything, this is more fair. If re-spins were only available to people that could play during Splatfest, then if you were busy that day, tough luck, no re-spins for you till the next one. Further, thanks to the Order system, as soon as one person finds that "perfect" set of sub-perks it can spread through the community like wildfire. Similar to those so called "viral achievements" on steam games that go something like "Play with a developer, or someone that has this achievement." Those rapidly become one of the most common achievements in the game because they network so fast. These "perfect" gear peices can work the same way. As soon as one person gets the "best" spin, they wear it, because it is the "best". Then, they show up in the plaza of more players, who order it, who wear it, who show up in the plazas of even more players, ect. So in reality, the most anyone can get is an early run.

Edit, May 28th: New info says this was wrong. I have changed this to avoid confusion.

 

[squidfingers]

So it's fine to have an unfair playing field if it's only a little unfair? As long as it's non-zero, I'm not okay with it.

Yup, I agree with you. Some players getting the abilities they want while others do not is not fair or balanced. It's just random. Random elements meant to keep players grinding is not what I wanted from this inventive team shooter. Even the CoDs I've played at least let the grind amount to a guaranteed payout. It's kind of a problem if I can say CoD is better designed on this front, and it wasn't even fun there either... Splatoon is supposed to be the anti-CoD. :/

 

[Niliks]

That's the thing, the Order system subverts this. As soon as someone finds the "best"combo, everyone will have access to it because people are wearing it. And that's assuming you guess there is a single best option in the first place.

Edit, May 28th: New info says this is wrong. I am changing these to avoid confusion.

 

[squidfingers]

That's the thing, the Order system subverts this. As soon as someone finds the "best"combo, everyone will have access to it because people are wearing it. And that's assuming you guess there is a single best option in the first place.

How exactly does the Order system work though? I haven't been keeping up recently because I didn't want to see spoilers. If I can order any ability combo I want whenever I want then that would be great. From the Direct I think they said you have to see someone in the Base to order that particular item or something? If it's like that it's another random roll whether you see the exact thing you want.

Here's the simple solution: Let us make whatever we want from the start. I don't even like the way they've included perks/abilities but at least this would be fair and respect my time as a player.

 

[Niliks]

The Order system does work by you having to see someone in the base, so yes it is in theory a roll. However, it isn't quite that straight forward. I spelled it out in more detail in the post 3 above this one, so I will use a different example. In short, lets say you roll the gear I want, and put it on. Now I can order it from you if I see you in the base, but so can anyone else. So, I don't only get to order it from you, I get to order it from anyone else that ordered it. So, if I see Dak, who saw Sqidmaster, who saw itisrag, who saw missingno, who saw you, I can still order the gear. It's kind of like that "six people from knowing the president" concept.

Edit: Six Degrees of Separation is the common name. Don't ask why I couldn't think of that a moment ago...

Edit, May 28th: New info says this is wrong. I am editing these to avoid confusion.

 

[squidfingers]

The Order system does work by you having to see someone in the base, so yes it is in theory a roll. However, it isn't quite that straight forward. I spelled it out in more detail in the post 3 above this one, so I will use a different example. In short, lets say you roll the gear I want, and put it on. Now I can order it from you if I see you in the base, but so can anyone else. So, I don't only get to order it from you, I get to order it from anyone else that ordered it. So, if I see Dak, who saw Sqidmaster, who saw itisrag, who saw missingno, who saw you, I can still order the gear. It's kind of like that "six people from knowing the president" concept.

That's still not a good solution. What if I don't care for the community's "best" setup? If I don't see the setup I want I'll have to grind it out myself. And even the act of running around the base to maybe see the thing I want will be a waste of time.

Like I said before, I think the best solution would be full customization from the start. The additional elements of RNG grinding are not needed. The gameplay is so good and varied even in just the testfires, I have no idea why the developers thought it necessary to lock the game up like this. Its really sad.

 

[Bottlecapn]

Well, just saw this: http://imgur.com/a/OsDgi

From here: http://www.twitch.tv/alwaysnintendo/v/5442972

Safe to say you need a Super Sea Snail to reroll an ability. It's wording using "3 full slots" seems to indicate you can only reroll sub-abilities.

Glad to see that Splatfests is just an easier way of getting them.

"THIRTY-THOUSAND?! WHAT THE FLYING-?!?!"

Literally my out loud reaction to that picture.

Honestly, the more disappointing thing in that picture is that Level 20 is Max. I was hoping for level 25 or maybe 30. To think that this guy already got to the Max level is insane.

Like I said before, I think the best solution would be full customization from the start. The additional elements of RNG grinding are not needed. The gameplay is so good and varied even in just the testfires, I have no idea why the developers thought it necessary to lock the game up like this. Its really sad.

It is, somewhat... There literally is no way to circumvent this, as you and @missingno are wanting, unfortunately. Even the basic gear (which cannot be unequipped if you don't have any other gear) comes with a secondary perk slot, which is guaranteed to be unlocked before you can even reach level 4 and buy other gear. No one will ever be exactly even, But...

Even the 3 main perks are minor buffs. The main Defense Up perk only increases your defense by 12.5% IF you have three of them, but even then you'd still get killed by the .96 Gal in 2 shots, or the Splat Charger in one. Not to mention that that can be counteracted evenly by a Damage Up.

 

[DaBoss]

I don't think it's too bad. It can be rerolled, at least. Though I play Pokemon and try to get the best IVs and stuff, so I may be used to this lol.

I think they may update and add more levels, though the levels are kinda useless beyond lvl20 since you would have everything unlocked by then.

Grinding. And then you use it to roll a dice. The dice didn't give you what you want from the 24 possible options? Grind some more.

This is a disappointing addition to Splatoon's formula.

Seems more like 13 options: http://squidboards.com/threads/theory-on-how-gear-abilities-work.996/

 

[RespawningJesus]

The way the order system works is that anyone you played a multiplayer match recently will show up in your version of Inkopolis.

 

[DatGuyAegis]

Grinding. And then you use it to roll a dice. The dice didn't give you what you want from the 24 possible options? Grind some more.

This is a disappointing addition to Splatoon's formula.

Well depends on how you look at it.

 

[Lyn]

Win stuff or grind. :P

 

[DatGuyAegis]

Win stuff or grind. :p

Grind hard or Grind home :3

 

[Trieste Sp]

Well, just saw this: http://imgur.com/a/OsDgi

From here: http://www.twitch.tv/alwaysnintendo/v/5442972

Safe to say you need a Super Sea Snail to reroll an ability. It's wording using "3 full slots" seems to indicate you can only reroll sub-abilities.

Glad to see that Splatfests is just an easier way of getting them.

Thanks for posting this.

Oh, man. Looks like we have to grind for it. I hope Splatfests are frequent.

 

[Crucifigo]

as a snail i am offended that super sea snails do not resemble actual snails

30k is definitely a bit much, but with any luck Splatfests will happen very regularly. I'd like to see them on a one-after-the-other schedule (aka not 1 fest per week) to ensure that there's a steady supply going.

 

[Bottlecapn]

Thanks for posting this.

Oh, man. Looks like we have to grind for it. I hope Splatfests are frequent.

Actually, seeing as most of the better weapons in the shop cost well over 10000, I think it wont be that bad. 30000 is like, 20 games of Turf War (if you score around 1500 on average like me :p) and maybe 17-18 games of Ranked Battles (assuming you win, because if you lose you get NOTHING in Ranked Battles!)

 

[Trieste Sp]

Actually, seeing as most of the better weapons in the shop cost well over 10000, I think it wont be that bad. 30000 is like, 20 games of Turf War (if you score around 1500 on average like me :p) and maybe 17-18 games of Ranked Battles (assuming you win, because if you lose you get NOTHING in Ranked Battles!)

I guess you're right. It's not as bad as the grinding for rare items in XCX. It's just a way to make people play the game longer.

 

[Citanul]

Dude, that's like at the very least 30 rounds assuming you get 1000p every round.
There's probably going to be some kind of crazy demand for ordering gear because of this.
People will have to start finding some really good friends to make the grind worth it.

30 rounds will be 90 minutes in Turf Wars since each match is 3 minutes long, total time maybe closer to 2 hours including matchmaking and other time spent in menus.

Not awful but it's still pretty bad. And that's IF you score 1000p per round. In the testfire I would only rarely break 1000, maybe closer to 700-850 in a normal game.

 

[Ikieri]

Looks like we have quite the grind if we want to max every single piece of equipment and gear don't we?
Splat fests are starting to look more better for this stuff.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I think we should give it a chance- the game isn't even out and I understand there will be some reservations but I feel like some of this was to let you try out new abilities, etc. We don't know exactly how all the mechanics fully work yet.

 

[missingno]

It isn't unfair though. Everyone has the same chances at every possible combination. The fact that some players will play more and therefore have more theoretical shots at getting it through Spyke is not the game system being unfair, it's a fact of most anything that the more you do it the more of an advantage you will have over someone that does it less. If anything, this is more fair. If re-spins were only available to people that could play during Splatfest, then if you were busy that day, tough luck, no re-spins for you till the next one.

It's RNG. One player could spin a zillion times and never find what they want, while someone else gets the perfect set on their first try. RNG decides who gets a good build and who doesn't, and you still have to grind until the RNG takes mercy on you. Tying these things to RNG is incredibly unfair.

Further, thanks to the Order system, as soon as one person finds that "perfect" set of sub-perks it can spread through the community like wildfire. Similar to those so called "viral achievements" on steam games that go something like "Play with a developer, or someone that has this achievement." Those rapidly become one of the most common achievements in the game because they network so fast. These "perfect" gear peices can work the same way. As soon as one person gets the "best" spin, they wear it, because it is the "best". Then, they show up in the plaza of more players, who order it, who wear it, who show up in the plazas of even more players, ect. So in reality, the most anyone can get is an early run.

This might be a good point, but do we know for a fact that ordered gear will have the same skills on it? I wouldn't put it past them to only give you the cosmetic but randomize the abilities. Also, as @squidfingers pointed out, even if it does work that way it will still hinder experimentation.