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THE HARD DATA: Guns, Subs, Specials, and Abilities - Range, DPS, and more

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Soul Train, Jun 6, 2015.

  1. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    (Guide Frame - Straight Frame)*6

    That part just seems so arbitrary, is there a good reason for this?

    I still think the range data is a bit off. No way the Blaster goes 0.25 lines further than Aero/Jr./Splash, considering the Blaster is physically longer and can't hit a target for max damage at the same range in actual practice. I also can't see how the length of the weapons themselves can make .96 Gal/Pro/Dual more than surpass the 0.12 line advantage the Rapid Blaster supposedly has (Splattershot Pro looks shorter than all of them, yet only the Rapid Blaster has a different range value). Also the Sploosh (1.28) and Luna (1.67) are practically identical in the test range, and I wouldn't say the Sploosh is 0.39 longer.

    Squiffer looks dead on, as the rifle itself is nearly half a line, so that matches up with the 4 lines from your feet. But they straight up tell you the range for Chargers.

    I mean, I have no idea how to calculate this precisely, but it certainly does seem like it's something to do with Guide/Straight Frame and Velocity.
     
    #101 UnLucky, Jul 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  2. flc

    flc Inkling Commander

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    range data is off on blasters because I hadn't added a special case for blasters yet (since I hadn't checked the explosion files on account of blasters being too crap to care about that much). easily fixed now that I've added the data in (edit: fixed it and the calculation is basically the same)

    guide frame is how the game calculates whether or not to show a X on your crosshair when you aim over something. the 6 doesn't come from anywhere in particular (it's an estimate based on the difference between straightframe*velocity and the range at which the X mark appears), but the fact that it lines up within any acceptable error margin for every weapon in the game seemed reasonable enough (again, this is why I've been sitting on this data, it's not fully correct yet)

    basically we already knew from frame data and our own testing that bullet drop off is neither quadratic nor linear (it seems to be instantaneous deceleration from muzzle velocity to some arbitrary number) so I used that to estimate it

    squiffer is what I used to figure out the range units -> firing range line conversion for the reason you mention, so naturally it should be perfect
     
    #102 flc, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  3. PHYTO-1

    PHYTO-1 Pro Squid

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    PHYTO-1
    damage ups with the octobrush if anyone is curious

    3 mains and 3 subs

    Roll - 31.5 (base 25)
    Fling - 46.7 (base 37)

    2 subs

    Roll - 31.2
    Fling - 46.3

    roll probably caps at 33.3 and fling at 49
     
  4. PHYTO-1

    PHYTO-1 Pro Squid

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    Range Blaster. 3 main and 5 dmg subs

    Effective kill range at 3 lines as opposed to 2.5
    [​IMG]
     
    Marraphy likes this.
  5. PHYTO-1

    PHYTO-1 Pro Squid

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    Slosher with 3 mains 5 subs dmg up

    Main hit : 89.7
    weak hit: 49.9 cap

    4 subs main hit: 89.1 = 0.6711%
    3 subs 88.4 = 0.7887%
    2 subs 87.5 = 1.0233%
    1 sub 86.6 / weak hit 49.5

    2 mains:
    4 subs 86.4 / 49.3
    3 subs 85.3 / 48.7


    gatling
    33.3 cap
     
  6. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    So just for fun, I decided to compare the different specials now that they cost a varying amount of points to fill up since the big August patch.

    [​IMG]
    Using the same angle techniques as before, I get a slightly different percentage than it should theoretically be.

    160/180 = 88.89%
    160/200 = 80.00%
    160/220 = 72.72%

    But I suppose it can clarify that 2x main Special Saver leaves you with <80%, while 3x is <89%

    Edit: Actually why didn't I just do this before:
    [​IMG]
    Red lines are just the ones from before overlaid on top of my Special Saver comparison.

    Oh, one more thing. I tried it out again with Special Charge Up and the bars are exactly the same. Like pixel perfect. A fully charged Killer Wail is proportional to an Inkzooka no matter how much Special Charge Up you stack. So we cannot consider it as the maximum gauge costing less by a static amount.
     
    #106 UnLucky, Aug 9, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
    Soul Train and PHYTO-1 like this.
  7. Marraphy

    Marraphy Inkling Cadet

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    About your Special Saver research; have you found if it's possible to have a 100% filled special gauge after death? In other words, where do you think the cap is?
     
  8. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    I've not personally seen it, but I'd estimate you'd need at least 3x mains and 4x subs, if not 5 or 6.
     
  9. RareCandyMan

    RareCandyMan Inkling

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    With so much data, it is almost a bit overwhelming.

    My initial thoughts and playing experience have led me to put a higher value on special and ink modifying abilities. I know it all varies greatly based on personal preference and play style, but that doesn't mean their isn't a most efficient way to distribute your ability slots.

    One stat that I tend to value very highly is Ink Resistance, could I be over valuing it? It seems like something I would want on almost any set, except maybe a longer range weapon set. I just don't want to sink tons of time and cash and snails into getting a set that would end up being less than optimal.


    Great work on grinding out all of this awesome info guys!
     
  10. Lunaroh

    Lunaroh Inkling

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    Great post! I love seeing some numbers to theorycraft with!

    I main brushes so Ink resistance is mandatory for having the mobllity i need when closing in.

    On long range weapons i guess you could swap it with something else, but being able to not get stuck in place the instant you touch enemy ink is always a good choice.
     
  11. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Ink Resistance (along with Run Speed Up) is arguably less useful for rollers/brushes, since so long as you're painting the ground you should be moving at full speed. You'll obviously slow down if you step off, which will naturally happen if you're not paying attention when your ink tank runs out, but still possible otherwise.

    Ink Saver (Main) and Special boosting abilities are amazing in Turf War, and still really good for certain weapons in Ranked.

    But loadouts like pure Damage Up, Quick Respawn/Jump+Comeback, or even Bomb Range+Ink Recovery can be surprisingly effective. And Run/Swim Speed is good to fill up empty slots, too.
     
  12. RareCandyMan

    RareCandyMan Inkling

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    I haven't been putting a lot of value on quick re spawn, I guess I just never really thought about it. I'll have to look at working some of that into my gear.


    Here is another question, do you guys think it is always the best idea to get as man of a few powers as you can instead of just kind of spreading one or two of a lot of different good things?
     
  13. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Quick Respawn can shave full seconds off your revive time, which is mostly useful in Tower Control, but also if you prefer to be the suicidal distraction by repeatedly jumping to your charger and harassing anyone trying to take them out. You could also consider that, over the course of a match, you'd need to fully restore at least 4 entire ink tanks per life to make Ink Recovery Up save as much total downtime as Quick Respawn.

    Ideally, you wouldn't die, and you're always going to take at least 5s to respawn no matter what which can cost you and your team the game. Plus without a lot of Quick Jump and Special Saver you're going to eat the other death penalties, so you're always going to be better off not dying in the first place. That's typically why people focus on other abilities that directly improve your survivability.

    As for your other question, variety for variety's sake (or fear of diminishing returns) is not a good idea. Several abilities are straight up useless for certain weapons, and the rest vary in effectiveness as well. Two mains' worth of "the best" ability can greatly improve upon your chosen weapon's strengths, or completely negate any glaring weaknesses. And of course, stacking ~4 mains of Damage Up just gets absurd on the E-Liter. Nothing wrong with a good generalized set with ~1 main each of all-purpose abilities, especially when starting out and always switching weapons, but a single sub is hardly noticeable.

    Try to come up with an ability you think would best suit your weapon when doubled up, or even tripled up. It might be the case where nothing is better, even with diminishing returns. Or it might be excessive, or another similar ability complements it better than simply stacking more of the same.
     
    RareCandyMan likes this.

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