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THE HARD DATA: Guns, Subs, Specials, and Abilities - Range, DPS, and more

Discussion in 'Competitive Discussion' started by Soul Train, Jun 6, 2015.

  1. PHYTO-1

    PHYTO-1 Pro Squid

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    is that your spreadsheet? i could provide more numbers for 3 main atk + 2 or 3 subs if you want them. doing them against the defense dummies
     
  2. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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  3. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Alright, I didn't like the numbers for Special Duration Up in that other thread, so I tried my hand at the whole frame counting thing.

    The video itself is pretty raw because I'm lazy, but it's mostly for myself to count frames and to provide some proof. The "splits" are by hand, so just ignore that, I just wanted the clock. I timed it from the first frame "Fire at will!" appears until it completely fades away.

    Default Inkzooka duration: 6.12s
    1xSub : 6.33s (3.43% increase)
    2xSub : 6.55s (7.03% total, 3.59% increase)
    1xMain: 6.82s (11.44% total, 4.41% increase)
    2xMain: 7.44s (21.57% total, 10.13% increase)
    3xMain: 7.90s (29.08% total, 7.52% increase)

    If we assume the default is exactly 6 seconds and subtract 0.12s from all durations, we get: 3.50%, 7.17%, 11.67%, 22.00%, 29.67% respectively.
    Although it looks odd that the 2nd sub is a slightly larger bonus, if we account for ±0.01s error then they can easily swap, so it's a tough call.

    Didn't realize I was missing an Ink Recovery shoe, so hopefully I can get that soon.
     
    Soul Train likes this.
  4. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    No Recovery Up shoes today, so I'll just do Quick Super Jump instead:



    Default Super Jump time: 4.03s
    Stealth Jump: 4.85s (+20.35%, +0.82s)
    1xSub : 3.76s (-6.70%, -0.27s)
    2xSub : 3.74s (-7.20%, -0.29s total; -0.50%, -0.02s decrease)
    3xSub : 3.59s (-10.92%, -0.44s total; -3.72%, -0.15s decrease)
    1xMain: 3.57s (-11.41%, -0.46s total; -0.50%, -0.02s decrease)
    2xMain: 3.19s (-20.84%, -0.84s total; -9.43%, -0.38s decrease)
    3xMain: 2.84s (-29.53%, -1.19s total; -8.68%, -0.35s decrease)

    I have no idea why the 1st and 2nd sub are nearly identical. I made extra special doubly sure I did it all right, checking the abilities I had equipped and the time on every surrounding frame, but the values are so close that any difference between them falls within the margin of error. Tried it all over again from scratch and got 3.83s with 1 sub (3.73 with 2 subs), so take from that what you will.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to do it in that recording, but I tested Stealth Jump with 2 mains and got a time of 4.02s, so pretty much back to default.
     
    Soul Train likes this.
  5. Soul Train

    Soul Train Full Squid

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    Big thanks for the testing, @UnLucky, you're great. I did some myself, and combined our numbers to update everything. Notes:

    • I'm really thinking there no general rules. Everything scales differently...meaning yay we have to test. Examples: benefits of Ink Saver (Sub) changes +/- 3% depending on the sub weapon - probably balanced to ensure you can only use a set number of subs on a full tank. Example 2: benefit from Ink Recovery Up quadruples with a second sub. wut
    • In a similar vein to Ink Saver (Sub) values, I'm getting different values for Special Duration with Kraken than what you got with the Inkzooka. My Main #s are: 11%, 19%, and 26%, while yours are 11%, 22%, and 29%. Interesting. I added extra columns to the "Specials" sheet to open up space for this. I bet this is also for balance.
    • Can you tell me how many shots you can get off via mashing with Inkzooka per each ability? I know you can get 7 shots off with 1 Main, but what about 2 subs, or 3 Mains? Some good to know info in there.
    For what it's worth, I have Ink Recovery pretty solidly tested and numbers done. It's up to you if you want to do it as well. What we need most now are exact %s on: Cold Blooded, Haunt, Comeback, Tenacity, Opening Gambit, and Last-Ditch Effort. Of course, since those are all the hardest to test (especially without a capture card). God help us with Comeback, I know it affects a bunch of attributes.
     
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  6. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Mostly I'd just want to prove the numbers for Ink Recovery Up in the other thread wrong. Without a video I got about 11% for one main as well, which is what you have.

    As for Ink Saver (Sub), even just running your numbers, they're all pretty consistent. 7-8%, 12-14%, 18-20%. Burst Bomb is the outlier every time, which I'm assuming is only due to it being the smallest cost to work with, so the inaccuracies of the testing method skews it the most. I think with 2 main abilities they cost <22% each, and with 3 it is >20% each, but it's hard to get too precise just by looking at the ink gauge. Might be better to test the cost of multiple bombs together, or how many shots of your main weapon you'll have left over.

    I'll check some other Specials. If nothing else, it's useful to know how much extra time you'd have with each one. I know I saw something like that before.

    Oh, Opening Gambit and Last-Ditch Effort work in Recon, so that shouldn't be too hard. Cold Blooded and Haunt should just need one recording online, assuming someone has Echolocator/Point Sensors. Tenacity is volatile, but a solid match with varied conditions should give enough data to sift through. Comeback.... "Comeback increases Ink Saver (Main), Ink Saver (Sub), Ink Recovery Up, Run Speed Up, and Swim Speed Up parameters for 20 seconds after respawning." please no.

    edit: @Soul Train it's possible to get 7 Inkzooka shots with 2 subs, but it's a pretty tight window. I couldn't get 8 shots with 2 mains, but an extra sub made it possible. 3 mains was still 8. Doesn't even look close to 9, so no idea how much you'd need for that.
     
    #66 UnLucky, Jul 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
    Soul Train likes this.
  7. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Inkling

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    Hasn't there already been a confirmation of the exact benefits of comeback? According to the Splatoon wiki:

    +20% Main ink efficiency
    +20% Ink Recharge Rate
    +20% Run speed boost
    +20% Squid speed boost
    +10% Secondary ink efficiency
    +16.66% or 1 second Quick jump boost
    +10% Special Recharge Rate (maybe)

    and then "Suspected damage boost and defense boost"

    Also, comeback should be testable in recon as well right? Since everything I've read about it says "respawning" not "after being killed". So if you jump off the edge of a stage and die in the water, you'll have activated comeback correct? Either way, the above percentages may not be correct but if your testing lines up with them then that's at least reassuring.
     
  8. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    @WhiteKnight Nope, Comeback does not trigger if you fall into water. There's no Splatcam, and you respawn much faster as a result.
     
  9. Soul Train

    Soul Train Full Squid

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    Well, first I'm an unhealthily suspicious person, so I want to verify for myself. And second the Wiki is a great place, but I've actually found a good few mistakes in its numbers on abilities. Likewise with the youtube channel Nintendojo, which also does frame-by-frame analysis - therefore we triple-check here. Can't hurt to get more confirmation, anyways.
     
  10. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    @Soul Train Are you just using the Nintendojo numbers? I noticed their Recovery Up has that strange jump on 2x subs, but when I did it myself I didn't see any such thing. Actually, I got a larger jump on the 3rd sub. Mains are more or less the same, at least for the two that I can test.

    Also their calculations there are just completely wrong, just like their Respawn ones. 2.3s is not "37.8% faster" than 3.17s, it's 27.4%.

    Anyway, the times I got were:

    Default: 3.02s
    1xSub : 2.93s (-0.09 overall)
    2xSub : 2.86s (-0.16 overall, -0.07 from above)
    3xSub : 2.75s (-0.27 overall, -0.11 from above)
    1xMain: 2.69s (-0.33 overall, -0.06 from above)
    2xMain: 2.41s (-0.61 overall, -0.28 from above)
    3xMain: 2.12s (-0.90 overall, -0.29 from above)
    2xMain+1xSub: 2.3s (-0.72 overall, -0.11 from 2xMain)

    For reference, the values from their video are:
    Default: 3.17s
    1xSub : 3.07s (-0.10 overall)
    2xSub : 2.84s (-0.33 overall, -0.23 from above)
    3xSub : 2.80s (-0.37 overall, -0.04 from above)
    1xMain: 2.87s (-0.30 overall, +0.07 from above)
    2xMain: 2.57s (-0.60 overall, -0.3 from above)
    3xMain: 2.30s (-0.87 overall, -0.27 from above)

    I found it easier to count frames from a different point than they did, so my times should be offset by the same amount. Adding +0.15s to each one and the percentages become:

    My Overall (from above) vs Their Overall (from above)
    1xSub : -2.84% (-2.84%) vs -3.15% (-3.15%)
    2xSub : -5.05% (-2.21%) vs -10.41% (-7.26%)
    3xSub : -8.52% (-3.47%) vs -11.67% (-1.26%)
    1xMain: -10.41% (-1.89%) vs -9.46% (+2.21%)
    2xMain: -19.24% (-8.83%) vs -18.93% (-9.46%)
    3xMain: -28.39% (-9.15%) vs -27.44% (-8.52%)
     
    #70 UnLucky, Jul 10, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  11. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Well I tried some Comeback testing, but it's all across several matches so I may or may not upload a condensed video of it.

    Here's what I got:

    Duration: 19.97s
    Ink Recovery: 2.68s (-11.26% compared to 3.02s)
    Ink Main: 12.9s (+16.53% compared to 11.07s) continuous fire with Splattershot (-14.19% ink cost)
    Ink Sub: 63% (-10%) for Suction Bomb
    Swim: 6.68s (-4.43% compared to 6.99s) until I hit a wall in Bluefin
    Run: 8.60s (-12.69% compared to 9.85s) same as above

    So pretty much a main ability in all fields, for 20 seconds.
     
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  12. Njok

    Njok Bouncer

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    Doesn't it affect damage and defense also? i realize it's nearly impossible to test that, i'm just asking if it does. And if so, i suppose we can assume those would be 1 main as well?

    With these stats it looks really good, but every time i wear it i barely notice any difference. But i'll give it another go in TC after seeing these stats. Thanks for the testing!
     
    #72 Njok, Jul 10, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
  13. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    @Njok I don't think it does. I quoted the guide earlier and that only lists the ink efficiency and move speed stats that I tested. I should double check it doesn't affect Super Jump and Special Charge, since the wiki seems to think Comeback improves that as well.

    I went and did these on Bluefin before the map change, but I'll probably have to do all the swimming again somewhere else. It's tough finding a nice long straightaway covered in your team's ink with a clear start and finish.

    Opening Gambit
    Swim Speed: 6.7s (-4.15%)
    Run Speed: 8.44s (-14.31%)

    Last-Ditch Effort
    Ink Recovery: 2.49s (-17.55%)
    Ink Main: 13.34s (+20.51% time, -17.02% cost)
    Ink Sub: 62% (-11.43%)


    And I'll sneak this in: Cold Blooded reduced Echolocator down to 2.99s, compared to the 12.19s I got in training using it myself. Not sure how much it affects Point Sensors or Haunt, though.
     
    #73 UnLucky, Jul 10, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
  14. Math

    Math Pro Squid

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    The only use a lot of squids have found is for roller flicks and blasters to splat easier. A blaster shot is a one-hit splat, but the ink explosion from a miss might not do the job. With damage up, those missed shots are more likely to splat. They're basically used for all the weapons you'd never think would need the stat. I'm looking into its effects on chargers, as well.
     
  15. Math

    Math Pro Squid

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    Hey dude, not sure if you ever your answer sorted out. Nintendojo did a great video on the disruptor. Here's the link.
     
  16. Math

    Math Pro Squid

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    @Soul Train, can we get the graphs rendered as images and posted in the thread? They don't seem to show up on mobile. Thanks for all the work you're putting in, man. Incredibly helpful.
     
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  17. UnLucky

    UnLucky Semi-Pro Squid

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    Yeah, Damage Up is actually more like Range Up or Quick Charge since everything's hard capped for direct hits.

    From what I've seen, the percentage increases are consistent across all weapons and conditions, so you can know exactly how much you'll need to increase your hits to splat from certain ranges or level of charge.

    And yes it's amazing for Chargers.
     
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  18. Soul Train

    Soul Train Full Squid

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    Yep, I've actually been messaging back and forth with them about a few testing ideas. Love their breakdowns.

    Also, I do wish we could dissect the roller flick. I just proudly hit A+ with the Dynamo, and have a feeling it's not a random splatter - that it follows a pattern. And if we can isolate the pattern, we can determine what precise effect Damage+/Defense+ might have. Hmmm
     
  19. Math

    Math Pro Squid

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    Have you seen this great dynamo guide by @Grafkarpador? It goes into a ton of detail about the stat effects and flick patterns.

    http://squidboards.com/threads/the-...eral-guide-to-the-dynamo-roller-ver-0-5.2627/
     
  20. Grafkarpador

    Grafkarpador Inkling Cadet

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    thanks, but to be fair, there is more to know. For example, I wish I had hard statistical numbers on how the drops of the flick get exactly distributed over the flick area with which chances, and I don't have the tools to measure that. All I can say is that it's more likely to land in the middle (sweet spot) of a "range box" and the rest gets randomly distributed in the periphery of the center. It would be great if Nintendojo or somebody else did a more detailed breakdown, if at all possible!
     

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