Things I've Learned from my Alt Account

[Award]

otherwise the algorithm would penalize turf coverage (which is an essential gameplay mechanic and the actual goal of two online play modes).

Painting the unreachable base section of the museum is not an actual goal of Splat Zones. The matchmaking system, like my teammates, is unaware of this. ;)

Thus, it would make sense for the algorithm to match players with high accuracy and k/ds with other high accuracy and kill players

Technically there's nothing wrong with that setup. But what gets problematic is when it matches me (mid-to-high k, low-to-mid d depending on weapon) against a team of high k low d, backed by a team of 1/9 (who also didn't ink all that much). How could it arrive at such disparate pairings?

I think we can all agree that the matchmaking in Splatoon is...off kilter to say the least..

LOL, that's putting it mildly. "Massively broken" is probably a better statement the more we analyze this.

It's possible that a lot of TW raises the coverage variable in a player's skill value, but players are also free to focus on building their kill count

That tends to harm TW badly though, as ZombieAladdin and I saw in the last Splatfest, all our teammates were interested in playing Team Deathmatch and nobody was interested in inking the base. I found myself inking the base with an eliter because my team was just running out to get splatted over and over. Using TW as a proving ground for kills means people are going into TW to not play TW which is the keystone of Splatoon's online. The issues with ranked spilling over to infest TW with problems is possible one of the worst aspects of the problems.

TW before starting Ranked, the matchmaking will likely pair them with other people who focused on coverage, and are more likely have a passive play style.

I'd say that's even ok - but then it will pair them against an aggressive team and the result will be mostly predetermined.

I think the problem is that the devs tried to use a run of the mill online shooter matchmaking algorithm for the sake of convenience and financial reasons. Splatoon is very different from other online shooters, so we ended up with a square peg jammed in a round hole. Now that the series has proven itself, I'm hoping they invest the time and money into building a matchmaking algorithm that is a better fit for Splatoon's unique gameplay should they make another Splatoon shooter.

That sounds so Nintendo, and so probably true. Sadly cementing the ideas of Nintendo critics saying "Nintendo STILL doesn't understand online." I generally hate online anything (except Splatoon) and love that Nintendo "doesn't understand online" - but moves like the matchmaking does hand critics a pretty big opening to hit them.

I think now that Splatoon is one of their top 4 franchises (sorry Metroid & F-Zero fans, I'm one of you too!) we'll definitely see more, but I don't know in what form. I do worry that the "unique concept" of NX won't be suitable for a genuine Splatoon 2. Nintendo generally means two things when they bill something as unique and unlike anything else. They either mean they painted the buttons blue and move them to the back of the controller for a new experience, or they mean you'll have to control your inkling by wiggling your toes according to a rhythm game, and wave your hand across the motion sensor on the front to shoot.

 

[BlackZero]

Technically there's nothing wrong with that setup. But what gets problematic is when it matches me (mid-to-high k, low-to-mid d depending on weapon) against a team of high k low d, backed by a team of 1/9 (who also didn't ink all that much). How could it arrive at such disparate pairings?

There are a couple of possibilities. The Elo system matches people based on the probability of them beating each other. In the 1v1 chess matches this method was designed for, it works great. When you try to use this same system in team battle matchmaking, you run into a gremlin. In a perfect world, the probability of two teams beating each other would be 50/50, with both teammates being evenly matched in skill. We do not live in a perfect world, but the game tries to get as close to that perfect split as it can. The gremlin shows its face when team matchmaking uses the Elo "dueling heuristics" system to turn a 1v1 matchmaking system into a team matchmaking algorithm. Here, it considers each team as a single player with skill values determined by averaging the skill values of each player.

The problem is, there's no functional difference between a 50/50 split with both teams being equal in skill, and a 50/50 split with one team having four decent players and another team having one great player and three ****ty ones. It's not so much that the other team is full of masterful players, but rather they are competent players who's combined player value subtracted from that of three ****ty players and an S+ player make close to a 50/50 chance of either team winning. Basically, their teammates are actually better than yours, but the average player values of both teams work out to close to 50/50. This is why the Elo system is utter crap for multiplayer games: it will try to match players based on play style, but will use dirty tricks to keep the win probability as close to 50/50 as possible. That's probably why every so often (or maybe very often), good players get ****ty teams. Not everyone in a lobby will be equally skilled. In fact, it's very possible that all the people in a lobby form a cascading chain of best-to-worst players in that particular grouping. If the worst are bad enough, the game may stick the best player with them to balance things out.

The Elo system also has something called "provisional matches" for new players in order to establish a baseline for comparison. It also uses something called the "K factor" to determine how much a player's bell curve changes based on their performance. Newbies have a dramatically higher K factor than "veteran" players, meaning that their bell curve changes drastically after each match where long-time players will only have minor changes. This spike in newbie player skill value and sharper than normal drop in veteran player skill can trick the game into thinking the newb is better than the more experienced player. So, if that newb somehow killed a veteran player 10 times, their kill stat would skyrocket until they stopped getting kills. What this means is that a newbie who's on a roll might trick the game into thinking they belong with in more advanced match-ups. I think the game keeps track of who kills who, so it's not completely ridiculous to think that the game picks up on when newbs kill veterans and applies the higher k-factor to their player skill bell curve. Moral of the story? Don't get killed by newbs.

Whew. Sorry if I rambled a bit. Unfortunately, these things take a little while to explain.

 

[Award]

Yes, I would often see very low-level players, like 5 or below, who I know are true beginners because they behave like beginners, but they still try and are not afraid to get splatted. They might go 0-6 or so, but I see they've gained about 300p or more and I see them on the front lines on the map, either in the middle or getting to the middle. And admittedly, I see them WAY more, at least in Turf War, than the players who fear getting splatted so much that they will stay as far away from enemy ink as possible. At least until Ranked and Splatfests. Then, they come right out of the woodwork, especially in Splatfests.

Maybe it's because my splat counts are usually not that high in Turf War. In Turf War, I typically mind my own business. My style is to observe what my teammates are doing, figure if they have some void in roles that need to be played, and play that role. If I get a lot of, erm, Team Deathmatch people, I stick around and ink the area around the spawn, then head out looking for uninked ground. If my team is full of people who are more concerned with inking, I'll move forward ahead of them and see what the opposing team is doing. I only really attack opponents if they're interfering with what I'm doing; I don't go out of my way to fight (the exception being snipers, as it's important to get rid of them to open up space for me and my teammates). I most often lead the pack in ground coverage though, regardless of how I play or what I'm using.

But because my splat count is likely lower than any of yours, I'm guessing I'm getting teamed up with other players with low splat counts, only they're low because they actively avoid any opponents and won't take any chances. (Not that it stops them, as I usually see at least a 0-2 by the end of a Ranked match.)

I wonder if during splatfests they're just sort of "scumming" to get their snails. Show up, do nothing, go afk eat Cheetos, let someone else try to win for them, ink enough so the system knows they're there?

Your TW play style sounds like, wait for it....team play! Assessing the team and doing what needs to be done is kind of the point of a team game I"d think. I'm the same, though I get my splats one way or another. If the team is rushing the enemy, I paint a little around the base, mostly to form a defensive position, and camp there for when the team inevitably gets butchered and the opponents try invading. When I get better teams, they wisely use me as a jump point since I'm usually holding position just inside the base behind mid. (Hey, it's happened sometimes!) IF the team gets to inking the base, I'll go aggro and keep the enemy busy. If the team is going aggro at mid, I'll go stealth behind enemy lines and paint their base. Of course if I'm charger, I'm defense exclusively or bringing up the rear. In a noob room I can be 15/0, regular players anywhere between 9/0 to 5/3, advanced players 3/2 can happen, I've had 2/2, 5/5, 24, 1/6 when we get overrun. 0/5 is embarrassing but has happened with really bad spawncamps. Usually with eliter if spawncamped I can at lest rack up trades. But I don't do much midrange, I'm either close and in your face aggressive (luna, carbon, L3, H3, Sploosh) or long range (eliter, splat charger), and very passive, pure defense (if you try to flank me I'll go aggressive though.) I'll play mid sometimes (bamboozler, L3 Noz, tentatek, the Gals.)

Usually, the area in front of the spawn in Camp Triggerfish remains pretty free of opponents for me much of the way through. It's probably a consequence of there always being at least one person on my team who immediately heads out to fight and can hold them off for at least a little while. Rarely do I ever see anyone, regardless of how splat-hungry they are, go for the jugular and get to the opponent's spawn point as quickly as possible. That behavior they save for when Walleye Warehouse comes up.

Wow, at least your opponents are pushovers like your own team....I might be envious. I haven't seen an enemy team stay on their side in Triggerfish in a long time. I have 20 seconds to prepare for at least a scout, or 40-60 seconds to prepare for a 3-4 member bubbler/kraken assault. Most of the battle takes place in front of our spawn. They come through the gates, or if they see me guarding them they'll come over the bridge half way down the hall and either run right up to slaughter at the front, or into the round area to paint it up. They never pull off a full spawncamp there, but there constantly running raids. I hate when the team is so bad I have to pack up my eliter and push into their base myself. Which of course gets me splatted, but what else should I do, stand around and lose?

I'm actually bad enough with an E-liter that I get records of 1-4 or somewhere around there more often than not. I frequently get cornered, then splatted. Well, unless I'm using a Custom E-liter, and THEN I get more splats than I get splatted pretty consistently because I can activate the Kraken should that situation happen (or rather, when).

Then again, most often, what happens is that my team has so little ink that, by the last 60 seconds, I have to leave my usual spots and go ink with the rest of them, which usually results in me getting splatted once or twice in the process.

LOL, ok, yeah, that's pretty bad. :p I'm not a very good eliter yet, I intend to main it alongside carbon and splat charger/splatterscope, but I'm not THAT bad. :D Well when we get overrun it gets that bad, or at least 2/2, and my team gets us flanked often enough, but still... 3/2 is an acceptable "I did bad but not terrible" for me. And that includes pressuring through intimidation. Not getting the splats but using ink to keep the enemy afraid enough (rightfully so) to approach. If they're at my long end I have a hard time hitting still. If they get into my sweet spot they're toast. Unless it's those S rankers that move like crazy. Then I'm SOL :D

I actually bought a Custom today... It never seemed like a good gun. I had fun jumping around with it, but I suck with it. 1/3 was common. I'm used to falling back on burst bombs. Jumping around on beacons was good on theory, but with my sucky defense and my team's inability to prevent a flank, the beacons were gone more often than not and I was stuck trying to use an eliter like a sploosh. I really bought it because I really want to wear the straw boater hat, and with fast super jump, there's only a handful of weapons it has any value at all on and that's one of them. I like the concept of the beacon jumps, but on a lot of maps it doesn't seem practical. :D I can't use kraken well enough to make it worthwhile, and I get more spats with burst bombs (and splat bombs on splatterscope)

I definitely get more splats from splatterschope/splat charger. But I still feel more useful often enough with eliter. I may not rack the kills, but I can use that gun's ink trail of intimidation to good effect, and cut off their escapes for the team! Splatterscope's just fun though.

That being said, NCAA basketball is going on right now--a lot of the coaches have a high-defense strategy, where one or two players play offense and the rest play defense. While there is still some variety, the sheer defensiveness compared to regular NBA games means scores for winning teams are normally 60 to 80 points, as opposed to 100 to 140 points for an NBA game. (Indeed, basketball fans are largely not happy about this because it means not much happens in a particular game.) But I guess that's an extraordinary circumstance, because high defense is a consensus among college basketball coaches, so it's going to be defense vs. defense most of the time.

I know nothing of bball, but their strategy is still sound because they've devoted designated offense to take point. It makes the match a gauntlet, but it still assigns who will push. The splatoon "passive team" has no one assigned to push.

They don't go 0-0. These people get splatted every single match. They don't get splatted much (unless it's a total massacre with the opponents having reduced all of us to the spawn point), but they do get splatted. When they're focused on inking tiny patches of uninked ground, they don't pay attention of an opponent has snuck up behind them. Even if they realize it before the opponent's ink can reach them, it's too late because they are not accustomed to attacking opponents at all. They cannot aim, and they panic. These are the people you see pointing their Aerospray RGs and Tentatek Splattershots at the ground two feet in front of them. Sometimes they swim to the next patch, sometimes they walk. And if they're using a roller (usually Splat Roller, Krak-On Splat Roller, or Carbon Roller), they only dive down into ink to refill, making them an obvious target 95% of the match.

That is, they only pay attention to the five feet or so around them until they look for another patch to ink. If an enemy comes close, creating a path to ink and siwm in to reach this person, they WILL get splatted because they don't know what to do.

ROFL! Your teams....what did you do in life to deserve them?? You need to change your avatar to Charlie Brown. :p You have his luck. It's sad and pathetic reading about them in a fun way. ;)

Why don't they just stay on the shielded spawn if they don't want to get splatted? And are you SURE they're not noobs? That all sounds like what I see the noobs do up to at least level15. They're just really into inking, not fighting. And probably skipped the campaign since that teaches you to shoot.

I panic too! ;) But when I panic I've been staring into a scope and didn't pay attention, am out of ink from missing the first bomb, and am frantically trying partial or uncharged shots. I don't think that's what they have going for them.

Oh I see lots of them walking around pointing their aerospray at the ground....but they're noobs....right? They're kind of cute in their little hats staring at the floor shooing at things :) Tough I do think I found one of your inkers today in Depot, inking little patches of enemy ink that splashed up from the bottom (when they were gunning for me.... )

I suck with krak-on, but carbon...sure...I go down for ink....and ambushing... :p But I still feel bad doing that to the noob shooting the floor....she didn't deserve it :(

Hmm, what you describe still sounds really noobish. They sound like people that have never played a shooter, are very very bad at playing the game, and really don't know what to do, they just enjoy spraying ink at stuff. Which is fine. But why are you getting paired with them? Consistently. I rarely ever see one, again, unless they're the ones idle on spawn that seem to move a little but not really that I presume are afk....but other than that, it's pretty rare I see them. That's weird that you're stuck with them all the time.


I did get the most ink in one of my rounds today. Which is astounding because it was Custom Eliter on Depot, and I didn't ink a lot outside our own base, I was playing with the beacons mostly. So my team really did nothing (and 1/3 was the BEST k/d on he team! "WE'RE NUMBER THREE! WE'RE NUMBER THREE!!" and yet my team STILL inked more than yours

 

[Award]

The problem is, there's no functional difference between a 50/50 split with both teams being equal in skill, and a 50/50 split with one team having four decent players and another team having one great player and three ****ty ones. It's not so much that the other team is full of masterful players, but rather they are competent players who's combined player value subtracted from that of three ****ty players and an S+ player make close to a 50/50 chance of either team winning. Basically, their teammates are actually better than yours, but the average player values of both teams work out to close to 50/50.

THAT'S IT!!! That's the system it's using! You just described EXACTLY what happens with me nearly every match!!! And I'm always that "S+" player (except I'm not, the system just thinks I am.)

I'll reply more tomorrow but I just had to tell you you got it right!

 

[BlackZero]

THAT'S IT!!! That's the system it's using! You just described EXACTLY what happens with me nearly every match!!! And I'm always that "S+" player (except I'm not, the system just thinks I am.)

It certainly would seem to explain everyone's experiences. Players who lean towards a certain style build up a bell curve that favors things like kills or coverage. The game builds a lobby based on bell curve or K/D/C stat value comparisons. From there, it calculates which combination of players on each team results in the closest to a 50% chance of either side winning, then puts them on a team. Since it throws everyone's stats together into a single average for the whole team, it doesn't consider the actual performance of the individuals on the team, but how the team would perform if it were a single player matched against another single player using the combined stat average as a basis for comparison.

Thus, Team A may have the player with the highest player value (the best player) put on the same team with one mid-tier player and two bottom tier players while Team B may have the second best player in the lobby on the same team as three mid-tier players. In practice, Team B has a significant advantage as one can expect the mid-tiers to outperform the bottom tier players on Team A, and may be good enough to give the top-tier player a challenge. Even if they aren't a match for the top tier player, they fact that Team A as two "dead weight" teammates where Team B doesn't makes the match unfairly slanted towards Team B, even if the matchmaking calculations determine both teams to be almost equal.

The provisional matches can also thrust inexperienced players into matches with more advanced players because, due to their high K Factor, their bell curves show radical growth in certain stat areas. This all comes together in a perfect storm of a matchmaking algorithm that does not factor individual performance into its calculations and can mistakenly put players into matches where they will be dramatically outclassed simply because of how the math works out.

 

[Award]

It all makes perfect sense. It matches a perfect fit for what we've seen.

So, if that newb somehow killed a veteran player 10 times, their kill stat would skyrocket until they stopped getting kills. What this means is that a newbie who's on a roll might trick the game into thinking they belong with in more advanced match-ups. I think the game keeps track of who kills who, so it's not completely ridiculous to think that the game picks up on when newbs kill veterans and applies the higher k-factor to their player skill bell curve. Moral of the story? Don't get killed by newbs.

I would think that would be opposite. If you get killed by noobs, it would boost them up in the ranks, but would it also not harm your k factor, and therefore determine you should be pitted against weaker opponents, or even be placed on team B of mid tier opponents?

I would think the advice is "stand around and let the level3 shoot you if you want more fair matches." Which might be how I got my balanced team the other day that got me through the rank rapidly. I'd spent the week playing "defend the noob" trying to NOT shoot noobs in TW and ultimately getting shot several times because of it (and taking more baths in Mahi than I'm used to!). That could have reduced my k factor enough to be paired in the middle instead of as the equalizer. If I keep working with eliter and not getting high kill stats, maybe I'll make S+ simply by not doing as well as I should! :p

The provisional matches can also thrust inexperienced players into matches with more advanced players because, due to their high K Factor, their bell curves show radical growth in certain stat areas. This all comes together in a perfect storm of a matchmaking algorithm that does not factor individual performance into its calculations and can mistakenly put players into matches where they will be dramatically outclassed simply because of how the math works out.

The only part there that doesn't make sense with noobs in ranked is, if their k factor outstripped their real skill would they not be paired against tougher opponents within their rank, and then LESS likely to advance to the next rank?

 

[BlackZero]

It all makes perfect sense. It matches a perfect fit for what we've seen.



I would think that would be opposite. If you get killed by noobs, it would boost them up in the ranks, but would it also not harm your k factor, and therefore determine you should be pitted against weaker opponents, or even be placed on team B of mid tier opponents?

I would think the advice is "stand around and let the level3 shoot you if you want more fair matches." Which might be how I got my balanced team the other day that got me through the rank rapidly. I'd spent the week playing "defend the noob" trying to NOT shoot noobs in TW and ultimately getting shot several times because of it (and taking more baths in Mahi than I'm used to!). That could have reduced my k factor enough to be paired in the middle instead of as the equalizer. If I keep working with eliter and not getting high kill stats, maybe I'll make S+ simply by not doing as well as I should! :p




The only part there that doesn't make sense with noobs in ranked is, if their k factor outstripped their real skill would they not be paired against tougher opponents within their rank, and then LESS likely to advance to the next rank?

After more thought, I missed the mark yet again. I think the lobby builder uses the player stats to divide people into attackers, painters, etc. From there, TW draws 8 players at random to put into teams. At that point, Elo determines which players go on which teams. In Ranked, the players are once again divided into killers/coverage groups that the lobby builder draws from. It has a smaller selection than TW because it is no only looking at players within a certain rank. Thus, the players will be closer together in terms of skill, but there is still a lot of variation in player competence within each rank. From there, Elo calculates the best team compositions for a 50/50 mach-up. Thus, we still have the same problem as before: you may get stuck with weak players or you may get put on a dream team. It all depends on what combination of players is most balanced according to the computer. More detail here.

 

[Award]

After more thought, I missed the mark yet again. I think the lobby builder uses the player stats to divide people into attackers, painters, etc. From there, TW draws 8 players at random to put into teams. At that point, Elo determines which players go on which teams. In Ranked, the players are once again divided into killers/coverage groups that the lobby builder draws from. It has a smaller selection than TW because it is no only looking at players within a certain rank. Thus, the players will be closer together in terms of skill, but there is still a lot of variation in player competence within each rank. From there, Elo calculates the best team compositions for a 50/50 mach-up. Thus, we still have the same problem as before: you may get stuck with weak players or you may get put on a dream team. It all depends on what combination of players is most balanced according to the computer. More detail here.

How do you think it fits into when you're watching a lobby being built, and it puts people in then pulls them out, waits a while, puts two more in, pulls 3 out, then puts the rest in and waits a while for the last one? Or when it decides to put you in a lobby with players that just started a match and makes you wait for a full 3:00 plus results screen to pair you in? Unable to calculate a 50/50 otherwise? or with a 3:00 wait, determined you're the ringer they've been waiting for? I get that often, and it seems pretty weird, especially in TW, when there's plenty of players online and plenty of lobbies to build on the fly that it suddenly chose to put me on one that JUST started a match and requires a full wait to get in. I don't think the lobby builder is entirely random in those cases, it wants a specific player in a specific lobby for some reason.

 

[BlackZero]

How do you think it fits into when you're watching a lobby being built, and it puts people in then pulls them out, waits a while, puts two more in, pulls 3 out, then puts the rest in and waits a while for the last one? Or when it decides to put you in a lobby with players that just started a match and makes you wait for a full 3:00 plus results screen to pair you in? Unable to calculate a 50/50 otherwise? or with a 3:00 wait, determined you're the ringer they've been waiting for? I get that often, and it seems pretty weird, especially in TW, when there's plenty of players online and plenty of lobbies to build on the fly that it suddenly chose to put me on one that JUST started a match and requires a full wait to get in. I don't think the lobby builder is entirely random in those cases, it wants a specific player in a specific lobby for some reason.

My first guess is the matchmaker tested their internet connection and it was dodgy so it kicked them out. If Nintendo was smart, they would set the game up to do a connection test on every player while still in the lobby. Of course, this isn't guaranteed to weed out all unstable connections, but it would reduce them. My second guess is that its an internet connection problem on Nintendo's end and they DCed from the lobby. Selective matching would be my third guess. My friends and I used to joke about the messages we got in a Halo lobby. It would start out saying something like "Looking for best match," then "Looking for a good match," then "Looking for any match." We'd laugh about how lonely and desperate our Xbox 360 was every time we saw the last one.

It's possible that the matchmaker keeps a "back up" pool of players to match people up with if it can't find players. People who are borderline on their stats (high coverage and kills) may get caught in this matchmaking twilight zone where they could fit in with either group of players. The game probably prioritizes players who lean more towards one stat for matches with people who focus on that one stat, but draws on players who are close enough. If it finds someone who is a better fit, it may swap them out with you.

Iirc, Halo matchmaking did things like that. Players would drop in and out of lobbies, or the Xbox would time out while searching for a match. I always assumed this had more to do with connection stability than anything else.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

I wonder if during splatfests they're just sort of "scumming" to get their snails. Show up, do nothing, go afk eat Cheetos, let someone else try to win for them, ink enough so the system knows they're there?

No, they're definitely afraid. They wouldn't leave their spawn points if they're just there to scum the Super Sea Snails by letting other peple do the work. Besides, that's the easiest way to lose a Splatfest, and people seem to take those extra Super Sea Snails by being on the winning team very seriously.

Maybe they're saboteurs. But I think they're most likely children. I saw it happen to Team Planes, Team Ninjas, and most recently Team Nice. (I hear Team Autobots was like that too, but that was before I started playing.) All four of these teams are teams a child is more likely to pick than Team Cars, Team Pirates, Team Naughty, and Team Decepticons.

Wow, at least your opponents are pushovers like your own team....I might be envious. I haven't seen an enemy team stay on their side in Triggerfish in a long time. I have 20 seconds to prepare for at least a scout, or 40-60 seconds to prepare for a 3-4 member bubbler/kraken assault. Most of the battle takes place in front of our spawn. They come through the gates, or if they see me guarding them they'll come over the bridge half way down the hall and either run right up to slaughter at the front, or into the round area to paint it up. They never pull off a full spawncamp there, but there constantly running raids. I hate when the team is so bad I have to pack up my eliter and push into their base myself. Which of course gets me splatted, but what else should I do, stand around and lose?

The way I see it, in Camp Triggerfish, the prevailing reason why they don't invade our side more often than it should logically happen is because I am usually the one to move over to the opponent's side and pick people off from there. If I'm using a weapon with Squid Beakons, it's pretty much guaranteed. That being said, the most frequent outcome is that our timid little inkers ARE able to venture out all the way to the other side (remember that they want to stay deep within their own team's ink, and if their own team's ink is migrating far away, that is where they'll go), and this seems to be what both teams wind up doing: Both teams seem to find themselves at their opponents' sides with no one from the other team in sight. More times than I can count, I'll be at the opponent's side, see the status up top that says we're losing, then super-jump to the spawn point to try to salvage the situation. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Depends on if the opposing team's ace is there (and there is always an ace on the other team, just as I often find myself the ace of my team).

LOL, ok, yeah, that's pretty bad. :p I'm not a very good eliter yet, I intend to main it alongside carbon and splat charger/splatterscope, but I'm not THAT bad. :D Well when we get overrun it gets that bad, or at least 2/2, and my team gets us flanked often enough, but still... 3/2 is an acceptable "I did bad but not terrible" for me. And that includes pressuring through intimidation. Not getting the splats but using ink to keep the enemy afraid enough (rightfully so) to approach. If they're at my long end I have a hard time hitting still. If they get into my sweet spot they're toast. Unless it's those S rankers that move like crazy. Then I'm SOL :D

I actually bought a Custom today... It never seemed like a good gun. I had fun jumping around with it, but I suck with it. 1/3 was common. I'm used to falling back on burst bombs. Jumping around on beacons was good on theory, but with my sucky defense and my team's inability to prevent a flank, the beacons were gone more often than not and I was stuck trying to use an eliter like a sploosh. I really bought it because I really want to wear the straw boater hat, and with fast super jump, there's only a handful of weapons it has any value at all on and that's one of them. I like the concept of the beacon jumps, but on a lot of maps it doesn't seem practical. :D I can't use kraken well enough to make it worthwhile, and I get more spats with burst bombs (and splat bombs on splatterscope)

I definitely get more splats from splatterschope/splat charger. But I still feel more useful often enough with eliter. I may not rack the kills, but I can use that gun's ink trail of intimidation to good effect, and cut off their escapes for the team! Splatterscope's just fun though.

Oddly, right now, the E-liter 3K and its scoped version are the only chargers I'm still seriously struggling with. What gets me with most chargers, however, is that I cannot predict how people will react to the laser. I've noticed how I am so much better with the Hydra Splatling solely because it has no laser. But I can usually get 2 to 4 splats with all other chargers (more so with the Bamboozlers, now that I've adjusted to them).

That aside, the fact that I can get 8+ splats every match with the Custom E-liters shows that I frequently find myself cornered or surrounded. I can use the Kraken and splat my attacker by surprise, and maybe get someone else who's nearby.

I think the other reason is because I feel compelled to go down into the field and help my team ink. The E-liters, I'd reckon, are the chargers least suited to jump into the fray. Even more so in Tower Control and Rainmaker because no one else will do it! (I have seen plenty of other E-liter users on the Tower or holding the Rainmaker though, so I'm sure this is an experience everyone who's used an E-liter will have to go through.) But still, when I do use an E-liter, I am STILL most often the top inker. To that end, I've developed alternate strategies using chargers to ink rather than splat. I had a match in Flounder Heights Turf War where I used the Kelp Splat Charger, for instance, and ended with 927p inked with a 0-0 record.

ROFL! Your teams....what did you do in life to deserve them?? You need to change your avatar to Charlie Brown. :p You have his luck. It's sad and pathetic reading about them in a fun way. ;)

Why don't they just stay on the shielded spawn if they don't want to get splatted? And are you SURE they're not noobs? That all sounds like what I see the noobs do up to at least level15. They're just really into inking, not fighting. And probably skipped the campaign since that teaches you to shoot.

I panic too! ;) But when I panic I've been staring into a scope and didn't pay attention, am out of ink from missing the first bomb, and am frantically trying partial or uncharged shots. I don't think that's what they have going for them.

Nope. They panic because they're deathly scared of getting splatted, and if they see an opponent there, they don't know what to do. They've only ever played the game inking at the ground. They don't know anything about how to shoot at other people. When I observe them, I see that they always retreat closer and closer to the spawn point unless they're cornered (which inevitably happens). But usually, they get splatted because they are so focused on inking the ground nearby that they don't even notice that opponents have come close until they're hit.

I don't know why they don't just stay on the spawn point and ink from there the whole match. Maybe they don't know the spawn point is safe. I do see, pretty rarely, a player who stays on the spawn point inking things around them, but I only really notice it after I've been splatted. I guess even they know they can't contribute if every square millimeter of ground around the spawn has always been inked. At least they're not inking the walls though.

Oh I see lots of them walking around pointing their aerospray at the ground....but they're noobs....right? They're kind of cute in their little hats staring at the floor shooing at things :) Tough I do think I found one of your inkers today in Depot, inking little patches of enemy ink that splashed up from the bottom (when they were gunning for me.... )

Hmm, what you describe still sounds really noobish. They sound like people that have never played a shooter, are very very bad at playing the game, and really don't know what to do, they just enjoy spraying ink at stuff. Which is fine. But why are you getting paired with them? Consistently. I rarely ever see one, again, unless they're the ones idle on spawn that seem to move a little but not really that I presume are afk....but other than that, it's pretty rare I see them. That's weird that you're stuck with them all the time.

And yet, I look at these guy's levels, and while there are a bunch in the single-digits and teens, I often find they're in the 20s or 30s in level.

Maybe they just love inking the ground a lot and will take the splats if it means just walking around inking more ground. If they are little kids, which is what I suspect, they'll find the game so compelling that they'll play it for long hours each day. After all, a thousand matches with 100p inked in each match still takes you to, what, Level 15 or so?

 

[DekuKitty]

You have to wonder though, how do people end up in such high ranks when they play like they just bought the game that morning.

 

[CodyMKW]

1) Lag is CRAZY in very low level rooms. More teleporting rollers than I've seen in a long time.

I've only seen lag in high level rooms mainly with players who are S/S+ rank and its funny because most of the people who lag are from US or UK the Japanese don't lag at all for me :p

 

[Award]

Maybe they're saboteurs. But I think they're most likely children. I saw it happen to Team Planes, Team Ninjas, and most recently Team Nice. (I hear Team Autobots was like that too, but that was before I started playing.) All four of these teams are teams a child is more likely to pick than Team Cars, Team Pirates, Team Naughty, and Team Decepticons.

But all the child-like noobs I've seen don't lurk around the base the whole time. They have NO idea where they are, ever and just try to ink everything that's the wrong color. They'll charge right at the enemy spawn having NO clue the danger surrounding them, because they were just so focused on covering up all that ink that needed covering! And trying to view it through a kids mind, I can't imagine many kids who would stay in one spot afraid of getting splatted. I imagine most would have a single minded focus and curiosity to find all that purple, wherever it leads and make it green! Granted I was probably OCD as a kid, but still, most kids are prone to charge head first into danger because they're too oblivious to understand the danger when their focus is something else. That's why you don't let kids play with a ball near traffic. "Traffic? What traffic? My ball went over there!"

The way I see it, in Camp Triggerfish, the prevailing reason why they don't invade our side more often than it should logically happen is because I am usually the one to move over to the opponent's side and pick people off from there. If I'm using a weapon with Squid Beakons, it's pretty much guaranteed. That being said, the most frequent outcome is that our timid little inkers ARE able to venture out all the way to the other side (remember that they want to stay deep within their own team's ink, and if their own team's ink is migrating far away, that is where they'll go), and this seems to be what both teams wind up doing: Both teams seem to find themselves at their opponents' sides with no one from the other team in sight. More times than I can count, I'll be at the opponent's side, see the status up top that says we're losing, then super-jump to the spawn point to try to salvage the situation. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Depends on if the opposing team's ace is there (and there is always an ace on the other team, just as I often find myself the ace of my team).

LOL, I used to be the one to charge to the other side. I stopped because I realized when I'd get there it's exactly like for you. I'd be over there painting an empty base, and my team would be dead on the other side and our whole base would be painted. Win or lose, it was always the same. Our base was their color, their base was our color. And I have the same experience trying to salvage our now occupied base. Except in my case usually the enemy is made of skilled players who are very good at holding an organized flank and occupation, or sufficient at hit & run raids to keep us forever on base cleanup & defense and never pushing. I hold for the best with eliter, but of course my enemies usually are good enough to know to target the sniper and I spend half the match dodging inkstrikes. If I take the roller or close range weapon I go aggro and let the team figure out how to handle the base. I'll try to ink ours from their side in their absence :)

Additionally usually the enemy is skilled enough that I should know better than to try to take our base back from them. But they're also usually skilled enough that if I try to flank them and seize theirs while they have ours, the ALSO stop me there. At least you get balanced matches and an ace to 1v1! I get 4 aces and a group of suicidal maniacs :(

Oddly, right now, the E-liter 3K and its scoped version are the only chargers I'm still seriously struggling with. What gets me with most chargers, however, is that I cannot predict how people will react to the laser. I've noticed how I am so much better with the Hydra Splatling solely because it has no laser. But I can usually get 2 to 4 splats with all other chargers (more so with the Bamboozlers, now that I've adjusted to them).

I'm not "good" with eliters, but I'm definitely not bad with them either. I'm a competent team sniper, but I'm not a team anchor with it yet and still miss some critical shots that could have saved the area from attack. I'm better at assists than kills, but I still usually have positive k/d. Ideally you hide the laser. I often don't hide it on the ledge floor, but will aim it at a wall or obstruction somewhere other than where the enemy will be. They can see it if they're observant, but it won't be aiming near them so they may ignore it. Unless I WANT to intimidate the field. If I want to delay them or hold them back in doubt, I'll make sure they see the laser sweeping over their entry point. When they know there's a sentry, they often fall back and regroup, hopefully providing time for the team to back me up. I admit, it's fun watching the enemy swim back hastily without having fired a shot.

That aside, the fact that I can get 8+ splats every match with the Custom E-liters shows that I frequently find myself cornered or surrounded. I can use the Kraken and splat my attacker by surprise, and maybe get someone else who's nearby.

LOL, I'm so the opposite. I went 0/5 for the first time ever with an eliter the other day when I tried custom scope. I did better with it yesterday, but used the Kraken all of twice, and got one splat with it. I forget it's even there. Went 5/3. I find I get cornered with it less due to the beacons and because I know I can't get out of it with burst bombs. I still prefer my balloons though. I miss the splats I get with them.

I think the other reason is because I feel compelled to go down into the field and help my team ink. The E-liters, I'd reckon, are the chargers least suited to jump into the fray. Even more so in Tower Control and Rainmaker because no one else will do it! (I have seen plenty of other E-liter users on the Tower or holding the Rainmaker though, so I'm sure this is an experience everyone who's used an E-liter will have to go through.) But still, when I do use an E-liter, I am STILL most often the top inker. To that end, I've developed alternate strategies using chargers to ink rather than splat. I had a match in Flounder Heights Turf War where I used the Kelp Splat Charger, for instance, and ended with 927p inked with a 0-0 record.

Yeah, eliters have little business being on the ground most of the time. The burst bombs make it offensive in small doses though. I tend to play vanilla eliter kind of aggressively because of that. But not as much as splat charger. Personally I wouldn't use eliter for TC ever if I dont' know the team will push the objective and leave me purely support. And since I have to assume the only one pushing the tower is me, I just can't use eliter. RM is different though because you don't get your main weapon when carrying the RM anyway, so you can push no worse than with anything else. Better, personally I think eliter users are better with the RM because the RM itself is basically an eliter with height. Players that aren't good with chargers don't have an "eye" for what to hit and how and how to avoid getting hit with it.

game inking at the ground. They don't know anything about how to shoot at other people. When I observe them, I see that they always retreat closer and closer to the spawn point unless they're cornered (which inevitably happens). But usually, they get splatted because they are so focused on inking the ground nearby that they don't even notice that opponents have come close until they're hit.

That's just amazing, and still kind of cute in inkling form. Maybe they exist on my teams and I just don't know it because I"m not back at the spawn too often if I'm not using something like luna where i take a lot of hits. if DarkZero's idea is right, it seems true that you're assigned to the inker pool and I'm assigned to the killer pool. Except I don't know how my team ends up in the killer pool since they get splatted a whole lot more than they manage to kill...
Our base is always empty (unless it's filled with enemies.) My team is trying to press the attack to the empty enemy base and hold a spawn camp (and paint the enemy base. The other day on Saltspray I beeline to the top. The enemy beelines for the top. I'm 1v4 trying to get the top (and lose of course) Where's the team? Inking the ramps. On both sides. And one of them is standing in front of the enemy spawn trying to spawncamp alone. They did take the bottom section while I had 3-4 of the enemy on me at the top. So, yay team?

Later I did have a great teamwork session with another team, though which was great. We held the top, the two of us, against 3 full waves of attacks and a series of inkstrikes, bomb rushes, and wails. And properly jumped back to each other.

I don't know why they don't just stay on the spawn point and ink from there the whole match. Maybe they don't know the spawn point is safe. I do see, pretty rarely, a player who stays on the spawn point inking things around them, but I only really notice it after I've been splatted. I guess even they know they can't contribute if every square millimeter of ground around the spawn has always been inked. At least they're not inking the walls though.

LOL. What a boring game it must be standing on spawn inking things.

And yet, I look at these guy's levels, and while there are a bunch in the single-digits and teens, I often find they're in the 20s or 30s in level.

Maybe they just love inking the ground a lot and will take the splats if it means just walking around inking more ground. If they are little kids, which is what I suspect, they'll find the game so compelling that they'll play it for long hours each day. After all, a thousand matches with 100p inked in each match still takes you to, what, Level 15 or so?

I don't know how you find them. Even my little noobs, focused on inking every bare spot they find, with a charger, no matter how many shots it takes to cover ALL of it, wander EVERYWHERE to do so.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

But all the child-like noobs I've seen don't lurk around the base the whole time. They have NO idea where they are, ever and just try to ink everything that's the wrong color. They'll charge right at the enemy spawn having NO clue the danger surrounding them, because they were just so focused on covering up all that ink that needed covering! And trying to view it through a kids mind, I can't imagine many kids who would stay in one spot afraid of getting splatted. I imagine most would have a single minded focus and curiosity to find all that purple, wherever it leads and make it green! Granted I was probably OCD as a kid, but still, most kids are prone to charge head first into danger because they're too oblivious to understand the danger when their focus is something else. That's why you don't let kids play with a ball near traffic. "Traffic? What traffic? My ball went over there!"

It depends on the kid. There are definitely a lot of kids who are reckless and have no real idea of danger, and their behavior is reflected when playing this game. But there's also the type of kid who's extremely cautious and fearful, who prefer aclose-knit group of friends and don't do anything that they feel might put them in danger. You know, the scared child.

I was one when I was little, with the bonus of an active imagination. My father bought an NES a long time ago. I would play World Class Track Meet, Ernie's Big Splah, and other non-conflict games. But I would not play Super Mario Bros. because I believed that television consisted of little people who live inside a big plastic box, they could see out through the screen and to the viewers, and they could escape if they found a way out. Hence, I was scared those Goombas and such would leap out of the TV to attack me if Mario, the first and last line of defense, failed. It got to where my father tried to play it himself to demonstrate to me that they're not real, but I would run and hide behind the couch if he let Mario die to an enemy.

Now, imagine that kind of kid playing Splatoon, even if they're not quite to the extent I was at. They'd be deathly terrified of getting splatted under any circumstances, and unfortunately, as getting splatted is part of the game, they might stop playing after a bit. They were probably lured in by the idea that this is a shooting game where you don't have to attack other people and has cartoon physics (to some extent), but soon realized that just because they never attack anyone doesn't mean they won't get attacked. Then again, as I mentioned, a lot of these kids have levels in the 20s or 30s (sometimes even 40s), meaning either they aren't too bothered by getting splatted but never learned how to attack back (never underestimate a child's dedication), or they are borrowed accounts from their more competent siblings, friends, or even parents. (And I know some parents who play Splatoon of their own volition. I also know at least one teacher who does too, on a related note.)

LOL, I used to be the one to charge to the other side. I stopped because I realized when I'd get there it's exactly like for you. I'd be over there painting an empty base, and my team would be dead on the other side and our whole base would be painted. Win or lose, it was always the same. Our base was their color, their base was our color. And I have the same experience trying to salvage our now occupied base. Except in my case usually the enemy is made of skilled players who are very good at holding an organized flank and occupation, or sufficient at hit & run raids to keep us forever on base cleanup & defense and never pushing. I hold for the best with eliter, but of course my enemies usually are good enough to know to target the sniper and I spend half the match dodging inkstrikes. If I take the roller or close range weapon I go aggro and let the team figure out how to handle the base. I'll try to ink ours from their side in their absence :)

Additionally usually the enemy is skilled enough that I should know better than to try to take our base back from them. But they're also usually skilled enough that if I try to flank them and seize theirs while they have ours, the ALSO stop me there. At least you get balanced matches and an ace to 1v1! I get 4 aces and a group of suicidal maniacs :(

Most commonly for me in Camp Triggerfish Turf War, I'll be the one to super-jump back to the spawn to try to salvage the situation, and I'll discover the opposing team has one really good player, the aforementioned ace, and all of his or her teammates follow him or her to our spawn. The reason why I don't always get annihilated is because the behavior I see on my opposing teams also applies to my teams: Because I am usually the ace of my team, sooner or later, at least one teammate will come back and help me. Sometimes, it's as simple as my teammates running out of space to ink and moving back towards our side. What happens then is that I am attacking from in front of the spawn, and they are attacking from the middle, and even an ace will get splatted if pinned in that way. The narrow paths much of Camp Triggerfish is made of means it only takes two players to pin an opponent.

I'm not "good" with eliters, but I'm definitely not bad with them either. I'm a competent team sniper, but I'm not a team anchor with it yet and still miss some critical shots that could have saved the area from attack. I'm better at assists than kills, but I still usually have positive k/d. Ideally you hide the laser. I often don't hide it on the ledge floor, but will aim it at a wall or obstruction somewhere other than where the enemy will be. They can see it if they're observant, but it won't be aiming near them so they may ignore it. Unless I WANT to intimidate the field. If I want to delay them or hold them back in doubt, I'll make sure they see the laser sweeping over their entry point. When they know there's a sentry, they often fall back and regroup, hopefully providing time for the team to back me up. I admit, it's fun watching the enemy swim back hastily without having fired a shot.

I should probably try that. Says something that the Bamboozler, of all chargers, is now the one I have the most splats with (except for the Custom E-liter 3K and the scoped version), because it fires so quickly that my opponents cannot react to the laser and because it has a lot of mobility, meaning I can move around a lot and avoid trouble spots.

LOL, I'm so the opposite. I went 0/5 for the first time ever with an eliter the other day when I tried custom scope. I did better with it yesterday, but used the Kraken all of twice, and got one splat with it. I forget it's even there. Went 5/3. I find I get cornered with it less due to the beacons and because I know I can't get out of it with burst bombs. I still prefer my balloons though. I miss the splats I get with them.

Watching people with the E-liters, I realized the reason why I can be good with the Custom E-liter but not the vanilla one is simple: The E-liter is strictly a support weapon, whereas the Custom E-liter is not. I cannot rely on my teammates to support me, and as I am very bad with Burst Bombs (and if I'm swarmed by 2 or more opponents, I am as good as dead), I can't really do much with the vanilla E-liter. The Custom E-liter, however, has Squid Beakons, and I know of good places to tuck them in every stage (except Piranha Pit, but I'm looking into that). But more importantly, it has the Kraken, which allows me to escape getting cornered, pinned, and swarmed, which happens often whenever I'm using a non-Bamboozler charger.

The vanilla E-liter comes off to me as a weapon that can strengthen a team's lead if one gets it early on, but if a team cannot gain a lead, the E-liter will not be able to help. This is because the more enemy ink there is, the more possible spots for them to hide in, and even with Echolocator on, the more mobility they have over you. That is, enemies can be anywhere, and they can move around quick. Inversely, if your team has a lot of ink, the enemies are slowed down a lot and behave in more predictable patterns as they're trying to push back.

However, the Kraken comes in handy when the opponents are all breathing down your neck: You can take out one, often two, sometimes three, once in a while all four, and that alone can turn a match around by removing the aggressors from of the match for the time being, allowing the inkers (or tower-riders or Rainmaker-holders) to do their thing undisturbed.

That's just amazing, and still kind of cute in inkling form. Maybe they exist on my teams and I just don't know it because I"m not back at the spawn too often if I'm not using something like luna where i take a lot of hits. if DarkZero's idea is right, it seems true that you're assigned to the inker pool and I'm assigned to the killer pool. Except I don't know how my team ends up in the killer pool since they get splatted a whole lot more than they manage to kill...
Our base is always empty (unless it's filled with enemies.) My team is trying to press the attack to the empty enemy base and hold a spawn camp (and paint the enemy base. The other day on Saltspray I beeline to the top. The enemy beelines for the top. I'm 1v4 trying to get the top (and lose of course) Where's the team? Inking the ramps. On both sides. And one of them is standing in front of the enemy spawn trying to spawncamp alone. They did take the bottom section while I had 3-4 of the enemy on me at the top. So, yay team?

I don't know how you find them. Even my little noobs, focused on inking every bare spot they find, with a charger, no matter how many shots it takes to cover ALL of it, wander EVERYWHERE to do so.

You know, I think that's a very good point. Based on what you've told me, you are a splat-oriented player, whereas I am an inking-oriented player. My splat counts tend to be very low even in Ranked, as I don't go out of my way to attack opponents. However, neither of us exist on the extreme end that our teammates seem to be at. I mean, teammates wandering off in Ranked to go ink and we never see them again except for the occasional badly-aimed Inkstrike?

The game may analyze player behavior and determine if the player intends to go splatting all day or if the player is a combat pacifist (that is, rarely attacking except when under attack), but it'd be short-sighted if there is a simple "splat" category, a simple "ink" category, and perhaps a "balance" category. It may also explain why I see such a huge amount of Inkstrike weapons: They must be popular among the player type who prefers to stay far away from opponents and dedicate themselves solely to inking, as the Inkstrike would allow them to ink from a very far distance and hopefully get some splats.

 

[Award]

It depends on the kid. There are definitely a lot of kids who are reckless and have no real idea of danger, and their behavior is reflected when playing this game. But there's also the type of kid who's extremely cautious and fearful, who prefer aclose-knit group of friends and don't do anything that they feel might put them in danger. You know, the scared child.

I was one when I was little, with the bonus of an active imagination. My father bought an NES a long time ago. I would play World Class Track Meet, Ernie's Big Splah, and other non-conflict games. But I would not play Super Mario Bros. because I believed that television consisted of little people who live inside a big plastic box, they could see out through the screen and to the viewers, and they could escape if they found a way out. Hence, I was scared those Goombas and such would leap out of the TV to attack me if Mario, the first and last line of defense, failed. It got to where my father tried to play it himself to demonstrate to me that they're not real, but I would run and hide behind the couch if he let Mario die to an enemy.

All I can say is: "D'aaaaaawwwwwww" :)

That's so funny. I didn't think you'd find a more fearful kid than me :p But once I was focused on something, I was oblivious to all else around (actually not much has changed, that's why the scoped eliter confounds me at times! :p) Being afraid of Mario enemies is a first though. For me Mario, Zelda, the Capcom platformers, etc, were the true meaning of happiness :) I still found Metroid kind of creepy though....

Now, imagine that kind of kid playing Splatoon, even if they're not quite to the extent I was at. They'd be deathly terrified of getting splatted under any circumstances, and unfortunately, as getting splatted is part of the game, they might stop playing after a bit. They were probably lured in by the idea that this is a shooting game where you don't have to attack other people and has cartoon physics (to some extent), but soon realized that just because they never attack anyone doesn't mean they won't get attacked. Then again, as I mentioned, a lot of these kids have levels in the 20s or 30s (sometimes even 40s), meaning either they aren't too bothered by getting splatted but never learned how to attack back (never underestimate a child's dedication), or they are borrowed accounts from their more competent siblings, friends, or even parents.

Well, I suppose getting into games a lot longer ago provides a different perspective. I've avoided the boring brown shooters of the past decade and tend to forget just how boring they are. When I think "shooter" I think 90's shooters. Quake and Unreal, Doom, SiN, etc. "Cartoon physics" or "arcade physics" to me is what all shooters are, I forget that sometime around 2000 they started going for realistic (gag) everything. Maybe you're right. But it's odd that only you see these kids :p

(And I know some parents who play Splatoon of their own volition. I also know at least one teacher who does too, on a related note.)

Naa, they just play so they can participate with the family events. I mean we all know @jsilva bought Splatoon as a toy for the kiddies, right? Reaching S rank 4 times was just, y'know showing them the ropes ;)

Most commonly for me in Camp Triggerfish Turf War, I'll be the one to super-jump back to the spawn to try to salvage the situation, and I'll discover the opposing team has one really good player, the aforementioned ace, and all of his or her teammates follow him or her to our spawn. The reason why I don't always get annihilated is because the behavior I see on my opposing teams also applies to my teams: Because I am usually the ace of my team, sooner or later, at least one teammate will come back and help me. Sometimes, it's as simple as my teammates running out of space to ink and moving back towards our side. What happens then is that I am attacking from in front of the spawn, and they are attacking from the middle, and even an ace will get splatted if pinned in that way. The narrow paths much of Camp Triggerfish is made of means it only takes two players to pin an opponent.

Yeah, that seems pretty common. I just tend to think the one that jumps back is genuinely trying to help and understand the situation. Maybe I assume too much competence! But again, my teams usually aren't BOTH incompetent. If they invade our base, they dig in with the intend to stay, and/or stay hidden around our base and keep causing mayhem. so I end up never leaving the base, remaining on defense and cleanup for the whole match! And the attacks are coming quicker and quicker!

I should probably try that. Says something that the Bamboozler, of all chargers, is now the one I have the most splats with (except for the Custom E-liter 3K and the scoped version), because it fires so quickly that my opponents cannot react to the laser and because it has a lot of mobility, meaning I can move around a lot and avoid trouble spots.

Bamboozler is weird. It's a charger, but it's more of a shooter that charges than a charger. I love it, but I'm wildly inconsistent with it. I'll dominate one round with it, and flub the next badly. I do better with it with the splash wall than the disruptors (though I do well with L3 Noz with disruptors.) Somehow the disruptor mechanic makes me want to close in which is bad with bambi.

Watching people with the E-liters, I realized the reason why I can be good with the Custom E-liter but not the vanilla one is simple: The E-liter is strictly a support weapon, whereas the Custom E-liter is not. I cannot rely on my teammates to support me, and as I am very bad with Burst Bombs (and if I'm swarmed by 2 or more opponents, I am as good as dead), I can't really do much with the vanilla E-liter. The Custom E-liter, however, has Squid Beakons, and I know of good places to tuck them in every stage (except Piranha Pit, but I'm looking into that). But more importantly, it has the Kraken, which allows me to escape getting cornered, pinned, and swarmed, which happens often whenever I'm using a non-Bamboozler charger.

That's interesting because it's normally viewed exactly the opposite. Custom with beacons is seen as purely supportive, while the vanilla is seen as moderately aggressive with the burst bombs. If you suck with burst bombs, then, yeah, it's not going to be very offensive. I don't suck with burst bombs, and it helps that most of my weapon mains have a burst bomb variant (and carbon roller is really a bomb main gun with a roller sub.) But I do find I get stuck with too little ink too often with them. And, yes, if you get overrun by 2 or more, you're toast. But with bombs you at least have an offensive weapon to help push. Beacons keep you squarely defensive.

The vanilla E-liter comes off to me as a weapon that can strengthen a team's lead if one gets it early on, but if a team cannot gain a lead, the E-liter will not be able to help. This is because the more enemy ink there is, the more possible spots for them to hide in, and even with Echolocator on, the more mobility they have over you. That is, enemies can be anywhere, and they can move around quick. Inversely, if your team has a lot of ink, the enemies are slowed down a lot and behave in more predictable patterns as they're trying to push back.

I'd generally agree about eliter (in general) as a weapon to strengthen an early lead but can not gain a lead. More importantly the aim area denial. The enemy can't flank through a route the can't access, and they can't turf an area they are unable to approach. The side half pipe area of skatepark is a key one. If you can set up on the perch early, the halfpipe is yours. The enemy will always try to flank your base through the halfpipe. If they can't GET to the halfpipe they can't flank, leaving your team free to press through center (and through their halfpipe) without fear of getting flanked. If you get overrun, your team WILL get flanked. Burst bombs are helpful here since if the enemy scout gets there as you get there, you can take him out fast and take your perch. With Custom, you have no real means of removing him and are left with trying to 2-shot him with the main gun. And generally if you get overrun here, the beacon will be taken out as well (or camped.) afterward. Generally with either eliter, once your team's defense fails, you get overrun and your base covered mostly in enemy ink, it's pretty much game over for the eliter unless the shooters can push again.

I miss burst bombs in situations like the halfpipe and claiming/defending a perch when I use Custom, but I have to admit I'm taking a liking to custom. I do have ink management issues with the bombs (though I get a lot of splats with them.) But I'm starting to think "gitting good" with the main gun's 2-shot is a lot cheaper on ink and is very flexible. It requires more evasive retreat techniques, which I've become used with with Carbon. Though it kills the fact that both have the burst bomb sub in common and make it a constant. I think lag also makes me reconsider bombs. Too many times I've thrown all 4, they should have hit, but didn't, and I'm out of ink and defenseless to escape or try to 2 shot. Roller's a little easier to risk it with since I can create my own escape trail.

However, the Kraken comes in handy when the opponents are all breathing down your neck: You can take out one, often two, sometimes three, once in a while all four, and that alone can turn a match around by removing the aggressors from of the match for the time being, allowing the inkers (or tower-riders or Rainmaker-holders) to do their thing undisturbed.

It's funny, I'm a very aggressive player with most weapons (I'm a rabid lunatic with carbon and L3 noz.) but I just never seem to use the kraken. I think in most maps I'm fairly sure I won't get it recharged, so I need to keep it just in case. I end up using it in the last 10 sec.

You know, I think that's a very good point. Based on what you've told me, you are a splat-oriented player, whereas I am an inking-oriented player. My splat counts tend to be very low even in Ranked, as I don't go out of my way to attack opponents. However, neither of us exist on the extreme end that our teammates seem to be at. I mean, teammates wandering off in Ranked to go ink and we never see them again except for the occasional badly-aimed Inkstrike?

The game may analyze player behavior and determine if the player intends to go splatting all day or if the player is a combat pacifist (that is, rarely attacking except when under attack), but it'd be short-sighted if there is a simple "splat" category, a simple "ink" category, and perhaps a "balance" category. It may also explain why I see such a huge amount of Inkstrike weapons: They must be popular among the player type who prefers to stay far away from opponents and dedicate themselves solely to inking, as the Inkstrike would allow them to ink from a very far distance and hopefully get some splats.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that's a big part of it. And more, I think MOST of the good players are going to be splat oriented (strong offense is a good defense, and all that.) so you're more likely to be up against high end players if you're splat oriented, and more likely to see more weak players if you're an inker. I didn't really intend to be a "splat oriented player", it just sort of happens when you cover a lot of ink (or get a lot of people flanking) that you get a lot of splats. But for me, I have a weird mix maining both carbon roller and eliter (but also playing ALL weapons regularly.) Carbon roller is an ink monster and an ambusher, it's not going to lead a charge like a tentatek so I'll generally get splatted a few times, but have a positive k/d, usually something like 2/0, 4/1, 6/3, 8/5 (or 9/0...I'm proud of that one! ;)) but over 1k ink points. Eliter's the polar opposite. It exists to splat. if my team holds the line I might be 1/0, or 2/2. If it's contested 6/0, 9/0, 5/3, 4/1 would be common scores, but #3 or #4 in ink. Double digits are definitely possible when against weaker players. Not so much against tougher players. I didn't set out to play COD, but if the enemy's in my range, they're going to take a hit. The system can't always figure me out as an inker or fighter maybe.

But in general I do what the weapon dictates and what needs to be done. If innk is needed I ink. If sniping is needed I snipe. If ambushing is needed I camp. We do seem to end up with extremes. Your inkers that ink and little else, and my Team DM Halo players that race out through my 4 eliter shots from spawn to battle again and again and never even fill in the paint between the lines.

I think inkstrikes are common in general, though. As an eliter, I'm used to dodging them. But I do see a LOT of inkzookas, krakens, and bubblers. Are they less common in your games?

BlackZero's theory was an inker/killer pool in the lobby generator. Your idea of a balance category might be valid too. But if it exists, it's a badly broken category and maybe that's the problems some of us have.

I wonder how @HappyBear801 get's matched in terms of other players? I think she has the same main duo of carbon/eliter as I do.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

All I can say is: "D'aaaaaawwwwwww" :)

That's so funny. I didn't think you'd find a more fearful kid than me :p But once I was focused on something, I was oblivious to all else around (actually not much has changed, that's why the scoped eliter confounds me at times! :p) Being afraid of Mario enemies is a first though. For me Mario, Zelda, the Capcom platformers, etc, were the true meaning of happiness :) I still found Metroid kind of creepy though....

It's not just Mario. It was almost every video game with enemies. Hence, I didn't play video games that were combat-related until I was around 6 years old. (That game would be the 8-bit version of Sonic the Hedgehog. I don't know why, but those Badniks didn't seem quite so intimidating as the Goombas. Maybe it's because it was on a Game Gear, and the 4-inch screen meant those enemies were the size of bugs.)

Yeah, that seems pretty common. I just tend to think the one that jumps back is genuinely trying to help and understand the situation. Maybe I assume too much competence! But again, my teams usually aren't BOTH incompetent. If they invade our base, they dig in with the intend to stay, and/or stay hidden around our base and keep causing mayhem. so I end up never leaving the base, remaining on defense and cleanup for the whole match! And the attacks are coming quicker and quicker!

Humans may be social animals, but they have a pretty difficult time seeing eye to eye. With the added veil of anonymity, I would say most people playing Splatoon play to protect themselves until they reach a certain level of understanding. Nevertheless, you and your teammates are all trying to win, and if it's Turf War, they probably know what the winning conditions are. If they see a bunch of enemy ink on the GamePad map near the spawn point, it's reasonable to assume the opponents are there too.

That's interesting because it's normally viewed exactly the opposite. Custom with beacons is seen as purely supportive, while the vanilla is seen as moderately aggressive with the burst bombs. If you suck with burst bombs, then, yeah, it's not going to be very offensive. I don't suck with burst bombs, and it helps that most of my weapon mains have a burst bomb variant (and carbon roller is really a bomb main gun with a roller sub.) But I do find I get stuck with too little ink too often with them. And, yes, if you get overrun by 2 or more, you're toast. But with bombs you at least have an offensive weapon to help push. Beacons keep you squarely defensive.

I'd generally agree about eliter (in general) as a weapon to strengthen an early lead but can not gain a lead. More importantly the aim area denial. The enemy can't flank through a route the can't access, and they can't turf an area they are unable to approach. The side half pipe area of skatepark is a key one. If you can set up on the perch early, the halfpipe is yours. The enemy will always try to flank your base through the halfpipe. If they can't GET to the halfpipe they can't flank, leaving your team free to press through center (and through their halfpipe) without fear of getting flanked. If you get overrun, your team WILL get flanked. Burst bombs are helpful here since if the enemy scout gets there as you get there, you can take him out fast and take your perch. With Custom, you have no real means of removing him and are left with trying to 2-shot him with the main gun. And generally if you get overrun here, the beacon will be taken out as well (or camped.) afterward. Generally with either eliter, once your team's defense fails, you get overrun and your base covered mostly in enemy ink, it's pretty much game over for the eliter unless the shooters can push again.

I get swarmed by multiple opponents at once. All the time. The most common enemy formation is that they move in one pack, and for some reason, they always seem to find their way towards me within the first 30 seconds of a match. (Sometimes, they take a teammate out along the way, and sometimes, they don't.) That's why the Custom E-liter's set is perfect for me: If the Kraken is ready, I'll unleash it and mow them all down. If it's not, I'll usually have at least one Squid Beakon somewhere else to retreat.

Meanwhile, my team is scattered everywhere--great for inking turf, bad for if this mob comes by and wipes them out one by one, with me in the line of fire sooner or later. If they DO stick together, for some odd reason, they're often facing inwards, toward each other, rather than facing outwards or facing all in one direction. Sometimes, they can get rid of one or two, which weakens this mob enough that they can actually get defeated. But if they're close enough and cover each other well enough, there's nothing I can do.

Regarding Blackbelly Skatepark, if you mean the halfpipe to the side, I definitely see flanking attempts through there all the time. But there'll always be someone taking the direct straight path too, and they're the ones who can ambush and splat me if I've set myself up near the halfpipe with a charger. My teams usually can't push through the center because there's someone there who's getting rid of them through there.

In any case, that I can take out a lot of people with the Kraken allows my team to push back with the Custom E-liter 3K. If I can determine where they are, and it's not that hard from point blank, which is how I like to activate the Kraken, even one opponent splatted will give my inking teammates some peace of mind. I've had matches on Museum d'Alfonsino, for instance, where each time the Kraken gets charged up, I leap down into the middle, go right up to an opponent, and splat them. Then, with a Squid Beakon, I could quickly head back up. Because I could keep doing this, getting 2 or 3 splats with each activation, I got a total of 14 splats in one match, 10 of which were from the Kraken. And yes, the opponents were moving like a swarm, bunched up together usually near or on the central rotating platform. Unfortunately, it was not Turf War, but Splat Zones. We won narrowly a lot of the time, but I couldn't helpbut feel frustrated that I was the only one making an attempt to ink the Splat Zone--another one of my teammates was doing that too, but the other two stood on the cliffside shooting at it, not realizing their Tentatek Splattershot and their N-Zap '89 don't reach all the way. (But they didn't get splatted.Well, not very often anyway.)

Yep, I'm pretty sure that's a big part of it. And more, I think MOST of the good players are going to be splat oriented (strong offense is a good defense, and all that.) so you're more likely to be up against high end players if you're splat oriented, and more likely to see more weak players if you're an inker. I didn't really intend to be a "splat oriented player", it just sort of happens when you cover a lot of ink (or get a lot of people flanking) that you get a lot of splats. But for me, I have a weird mix maining both carbon roller and eliter (but also playing ALL weapons regularly.) Carbon roller is an ink monster and an ambusher, it's not going to lead a charge like a tentatek so I'll generally get splatted a few times, but have a positive k/d, usually something like 2/0, 4/1, 6/3, 8/5 (or 9/0...I'm proud of that one! ;)) but over 1k ink points. Eliter's the polar opposite. It exists to splat. if my team holds the line I might be 1/0, or 2/2. If it's contested 6/0, 9/0, 5/3, 4/1 would be common scores, but #3 or #4 in ink. Double digits are definitely possible when against weaker players. Not so much against tougher players. I didn't set out to play COD, but if the enemy's in my range, they're going to take a hit. The system can't always figure me out as an inker or fighter maybe.

But in general I do what the weapon dictates and what needs to be done. If innk is needed I ink. If sniping is needed I snipe. If ambushing is needed I camp. We do seem to end up with extremes. Your inkers that ink and little else, and my Team DM Halo players that race out through my 4 eliter shots from spawn to battle again and again and never even fill in the paint between the lines.

I never, ever lead a charge. I don't know what my teammates are going to do. If I lead a charge, who's to say they won't all follow me single file until we find an enemy, then we get splatted one by one like an assembly line? The only way to know for sure what role is not being fulfilled, and there will always be one, is to observe what my teammates will do. Heck, there are some incredibly bold inkers I find sometimes, who always want to be at the front and have a lot of uninked ground in front of them. I'll let them pass me and see what kind of trouble they run into.

I think inkstrikes are common in general, though. As an eliter, I'm used to dodging them. But I do see a LOT of inkzookas, krakens, and bubblers. Are they less common in your games?

Inkzookas and Krakens are common but not nearly as much as Inkstrikes. Bubblers are rare unless Piranha Pit is one of the stages or someone is using the Splattershot Jr. Echolocators and Killer Wails are somewhere in between, and Bomb Rushes are on the uncommon side.

BlackZero's theory was an inker/killer pool in the lobby generator. Your idea of a balance category might be valid too. But if it exists, it's a badly broken category and maybe that's the problems some of us have.

I wonder how @HappyBear801 get's matched in terms of other players? I think she has the same main duo of carbon/eliter as I do.

I would like to think that I am a balance player; I prefer to ink and mind my own business, but I'll splat someone, or at least put up a fight, if I or a teammate get in danger. But I guess that's what a competent inker should be doing, not running away from enemies, so I guess the game considers me an inker.

 

[Inyo]

This thread has gone in directions I didn't anticipate.

Well, I haven't played my alt account in awhile. I'm certainly terrible at sniping in my actual account, hoo boy

 

[HappyBear801]

I wonder how @HappyBear801 get's matched in terms of other players? I think she has the same main duo of carbon/eliter as I do.

*gasp* You got my gender right? And my mains? This is a pleasant surprise! Since I'm not the best of ranks I do find alot of easy players but I can get matched up pretty unevely, which I try to avoid with hyperactive tactics.

 

[Award]

It's not just Mario. It was almost every video game with enemies. Hence, I didn't play video games that were combat-related until I was around 6 years old. (That game would be the 8-bit version of Sonic the Hedgehog. I don't know why, but those Badniks didn't seem quite so intimidating as the Goombas. Maybe it's because it was on a Game Gear, and the 4-inch screen meant those enemies were the size of bugs.)

Maybe because when you defeat a Sonic enemy, fluffy bunnies come flying out? :D

Though it's funny when you think of reality versus perception. Mushrooms with feet and goofy toothy grins: Terrifying. They're going to jump out and kill you. Robotic creations made by an evil mastermind who has actually captured and imprisoned innocent animals to be used as the living core of his contraptions: Not so bad, I'll be fine! :)

I get swarmed by multiple opponents at once. All the time. The most common enemy formation is that they move in one pack, and for some reason, they always seem to find their way towards me within the first 30 seconds of a match.

You're probably always on point, given your little inkers, so they know to aim for you.

If it's not, I'll usually have at least one Squid Beakon somewhere else to retreat.

As long as you don't drop a beacon on the spawn you're already ahead of my teams. TW matchmaking LOVES to put me against all S/S+ teams. When I suspect my opponents are S, and I get splatted, and I see a beacon sitting atop my spawn. Or, my favorite, 3 of them. I just figure "that's it, we're f*****!"

Meanwhile, my team is scattered everywhere--great for inking turf, bad for if this mob comes by and wipes them out one by one, with me in the line of fire sooner or later. If they DO stick together, for some odd reason, they're often facing inwards, toward each other, rather than facing outwards or facing all in one direction. Sometimes, they can get rid of one or two, which weakens this mob enough that they can actually get defeated. But if they're close enough and cover each other well enough, there's nothing I can do.

I do hate how they generally gang up on me 3-1. But I have the other problem when my team joins up together on a map like Depot. They'll all go down to the left side together, so I really have no choice but to try to take on the right side alone. Meeanwhile the 3 of them either get pinned down on the left, by 2 opponents (while the other 2 are on me on the right), OR they take the left, then race up to the enemy base to pillage and camp, leaving the right STILL undefended, except for me. Inevitably, the enemy makes a push and then starts taking the right AND left again. And it's just me. So then our base gets overrun, and that's the game. In fact few teams I play with have any concept of base defense at all. They will not defend their base. They will not try to establish a line of skirmish in mid and advance or hold that line as a front. They will simply take the shortest path possible to enter the enemy base, even if the enemy has an established alternate route around them, and try continuously to conquer the enemy base while mid falls to the enemy. I defend the base alone and my team is now cut off in enemy territory. Like the history conversation, as eliter I feel like the Maginot Line. I can be a devastating deterrent to anyone approaching from the front, but if they just can walk around me and get me from behind, I'm SOL. :D

When I do get swarmed, it's never a tight formation like your mobs. It's guerilla tactics. One from the left, one from the right, another flanking. All of them bunny hopping and janking around. And inevitably, if I have a position I might still be able to win, they have two bubblers and a kraken charged. "I don't always get attacked, but when I do, it's from the direction of my own base. "

In any case, that I can take out a lot of people with the Kraken allows my team to push back with the Custom E-liter 3K. If I can determine where they are, and it's not that hard from point blank, which is how I like to activate the Kraken, even one opponent splatted will give my inking teammates some peace of mind. I've had matches on Museum d'Alfonsino, for instance, where each time the Kraken gets charged up, I leap down into the middle, go right up to an opponent, and splat them. Then, with a Squid Beakon, I could quickly head back up. Because I could keep doing this, getting 2 or 3 splats with each activation, I got a total of 14 splats in one match, 10 of which were from the Kraken. And yes, the opponents were moving like a swarm, bunched up together usually near or on the central rotating platform. Unfortunately, it was not Turf War, but Splat Zones. We won narrowly a lot of the time, but I couldn't helpbut feel frustrated that I was the only one making an attempt to ink the Splat Zone--another one of my teammates was doing that too, but the other two stood on the cliffside shooting at it, not realizing their Tentatek Splattershot and their N-Zap '89 don't reach all the way. (But they didn't get splatted.Well, not very often anyway.)

I feel like I'm missing out, hoarding my kraken as I do. I still miss burst bombs, but yet I love setting up my jump points....

Well, in SZ bunching is definitely more common. Foolish, but common. But everyone's going to be in that same general spot so it's bound to happen. I've been using Carbon for it, though, so I'm down in the zone, moving constantly, and pulling back to friendly ground only to refill ink and re-evaluate enemy positions.

Somehow Museum throws off splat zones or something. I haven't played there in a while, but i remember in C ranks I'd have teams that I did not see them the entire match. I'd be on the zone with, at the time, splash o matic, and I'd be the only one holding the zone, and the only one near it the whole match.

I never, ever lead a charge. I don't know what my teammates are going to do. If I lead a charge, who's to say they won't all follow me single file until we find an enemy, then we get splatted one by one like an assembly line? The only way to know for sure what role is not being fulfilled, and there will always be one, is to observe what my teammates will do. Heck, there are some incredibly bold inkers I find sometimes, who always want to be at the front and have a lot of uninked ground in front of them. I'll let them pass me and see what kind of trouble they run into.

IMO, there's not many weapons good at leading a charge anyway. Certainly not most of my favorites. Chargers, blasters, carbon roller, heavy splatling. I'm excitedly anticipating the neo hydra. None of them are great for leading a charge except maybe squiffer.

Inkzookas and Krakens are common but not nearly as much as Inkstrikes. Bubblers are rare unless Piranha Pit is one of the stages or someone is using the Splattershot Jr. Echolocators and Killer Wails are somewhere in between, and Bomb Rushes are on the uncommon side.

Interesting. For me, all 3 are very common. I can't say I see more inkstrikes than kraken or 'zooka. Possibly the other way around, but it's not like inkstrikes aren't super common. I'd say all the specials are pretty equally common actually. I can't go down the list and find one I don't see all the time except maybe specifically seeker rush. And even that's somewhat frequent. Interesting your players favor inkstrikes. Bubblers just irritate me, when anyone I fight has a bubbler, the bubbler is up EVERY TIME I encounter them.

What I really hate is when they have organized use of specials. The chain of overlapping inkstrikes consuming your base all at once as the opening salvo of the assault. Or, you dodge an inkstrike, only to have tornados flying at you. You hide behind cover for that as the wail fires up, and you roll out in the open ready to retaliate only to discover all 3 of them are bubbled. Or a chain of bubblers, that as soon as one dissipates, the next one renews it.

That happens a lot :(

I would like to think that I am a balance player; I prefer to ink and mind my own business, but I'll splat someone, or at least put up a fight, if I or a teammate get in danger. But I guess that's what a competent inker should be doing, not running away from enemies, so I guess the game considers me an inker.

Yeah, you're an inker :) I kind of wish I was too, I miss that from the early days. But I just can't help myself, if there's an inkoming enemy, I just have to splat it! :)

 

[Award]

*gasp* You got my gender right? And my mains? This is a pleasant surprise! Since I'm not the best of ranks I do find alot of easy players but I can get matched up pretty unevely, which I try to avoid with hyperactive tactics.

LOL, that might be a pretty sad statement about the forums if that's surprising :)

What kind of k/d & ink do you usually get with either weapon? I think I tend to get fairly good k/d with eliter but low or poor ink coverage, and lots more ink with carbon and I suspect I'm tossed back and forth between the "inker" pool and the "killer" pool since it doesn't know what to do with me

And how do you do hyperactive with eliter?