Weapon Strategy Types WIP

[redacteddd]

Swap The placements of both splash-o-matics, neo splash has more kill oriented options (burst bomb / inkzooka) than the regular (suction bomb/ bomb rush)

 

[SupaTim]

This is really, really good and helpful.

I noticed that someone suggested moving the carbon roller to turfing front, which got me thinking: my first impression is that the carbon roller is definitely assassin style. You have the fastest TTK close range and that is often your role. BUT, sometimes I do play the turfing front role if I have to, and I think the carbon roller isn't terrible at it either. I'm sure there is overlap with other weapons as well. Is this something worth analyzing, or is it a slippery slope?

 

[Smoothshake317]

If it's got the same damage as the regular rb I don't see it being viable w/o damage up especially since the fire rate got lower. 4 indirect hits at luna blaster speed seems really poor. heck you could probably splatterhop out of the range in the time it takes to kill like that.

Either way, we won't know what it needs gear-wise until we actually get the weapon. However one thing to note about the weapon is that it uses the same Ink per shot as the range blaster. When fire rate is also taken into account, it becomes bright as day that this weapon must have Ink saver main to support it. You have LESS THAN SEVEN SECONDS OF FIRE TIME BEFORE YOU RUN OUT OF INK. One thing though that I have also forgotten about blasters in general is that despite their high damage, damage up is still a good investment because you want to ensure that your target dies in 2 indirect shots.

 

[JFL]

H-3 Nozzlenose is definitely an assassin. That weapon is built for the patient hunter of sneeky cheeky scrubs. ;)

l disagree, or maybe l'm misunderstanding the nature of assassin type weapons.

l think l have a decent amount of experience with this sort of style as l main the octobrush and the sploosh is my third most used weapon. l've played quite a bit of H-3 recently and l've found it excessively difficult if not impossible to replicate the kind of gameplay l'm familiar with as an octobrush main, while the sploosh only requires a few tweaks.

The H-3 is far too static to be played as a stealthy, hit and run, base invading harassing weapon which is how l interpret assassin types. On the other hand l found moderate success playing the H-3 in a very defensive fashion, staying out of the heart of battle, throwing suction bombs as a zoning tool to force opponents to move in the desired direction and using the H-3 excellent range to take out frontliners. As such l think it belongs in the active back category as essentially a worse version of the .96 Gal Deco.

Just my two cents, this is a great thread btw, very informative.

 

[Smoothshake317]

Guys, One thing that I also want to note about how I categorized weapons was that I determined them partially on my own experience with them. This means that I am bound to get some wrong if it does not meet the general consensus on how a weapon should and should not be played. This also means that I need as many suggestions for moving weapons as possible, in essence, a larger sample size of opinions and experiences. In the end, this list IS NOT SET IN STONE. I want the community to decide on general consensus what each weapons' strategy type should be. So if possible, can you help me spread this thread? Also in the future I will try to set up a Smogon like strategy-dex of sorts for each of the weapons, but it will take some help.

Another thing that I want to mention is the fact that it is a fact that some, if not all weapons can also play other strategy types very we besides the ones that they are listed here. In example, .96 gal from my experience has also ripped apart the opposition being a Passive back weapon. However, when I started to use it in a Killing Front format, I did even better than before with it (I did this because it was highly recommended to be moved to this position).

l disagree, or maybe l'm misunderstanding the nature of assassin type weapons.

l think l have a decent amount of experience with this sort of style as l main the octobrush and the sploosh is my third most used weapon. l've played quite a bit of H-3 recently and l've found it excessively difficult if not impossible to replicate the kind of gameplay l'm familiar with as an octobrush main, while the sploosh only requires a few tweaks.

The H-3 is far too static to be played as a stealthy, hit and run, base invading harassing weapon which is how l interpret assassin types. On the other hand l found moderate success playing the H-3 in a very defensive fashion, staying out of the heart of battle, throwing suction bombs as a zoning tool to force opponents to move in the desired direction and using the H-3 excellent range to take out frontliners. As such l think it belongs in the active back category as essentially a worse version of the .96 Gal Deco.

Just my two cents, this is a great thread btw, very informative.

I see your point on this, so I will move it to Passive back for now, unless more people say it should not be otherwise.

 

[HappyBear801]

I see your point on this, so I will move it to Passive back for now, unless more people say it should not be otherwise.

It shouldn't be Passive Back since it can fight with Suction Bombs. If not an assassin, then place it at Active Back or even mid. Active Back more likely.

 

[Smoothshake317]

l disagree, or maybe l'm misunderstanding the nature of assassin type weapons.

l think l have a decent amount of experience with this sort of style as l main the octobrush and the sploosh is my third most used weapon. l've played quite a bit of H-3 recently and l've found it excessively difficult if not impossible to replicate the kind of gameplay l'm familiar with as an octobrush main, while the sploosh only requires a few tweaks.

The H-3 is far too static to be played as a stealthy, hit and run, base invading harassing weapon which is how l interpret assassin types. On the other hand l found moderate success playing the H-3 in a very defensive fashion, staying out of the heart of battle, throwing suction bombs as a zoning tool to force opponents to move in the desired direction and using the H-3 excellent range to take out frontliners. As such l think it belongs in the active back category as essentially a worse version of the .96 Gal Deco.

Just my two cents, this is a great thread btw, very informative.

It shouldn't be Passive Back since it can fight with Suction Bombs. If not an assassin, then place it at Active Back or even mid. Active Back more likely.

See, this is the kind of thought provoking I want on my thread. I want discussions about weapons strategy types that can make people both agree and disagree so that we may ultimately come to a consensus about what is a weapon's most fruitful strategy type. I am excited.

I will move it to assassin for now, but you two should discus its location.

 

[JFL]

It shouldn't be Passive Back since it can fight with Suction Bombs. If not an assassin, then place it at Active Back or even mid. Active Back more likely.

l agree with active back. l originally typed passive back in my first post but realized l got it wrong and edited.

 

[Smoothshake317]

l agree with active back. l originally typed passive back in my first post but realized l got it wrong and edited.

Alright then, although I have yet to play the weapon like an active back (I usually try to play the weapons in different roles to see what works and not) I will move it to Active Back for now.

UPDATE: I tried out the H-3 Nozzlenose as an active back weapon, and here on my thoughts on it:

I really don't think this weapon can be used as an active back type efficiently. My reasoning for this deals with how the suction bomb works. The suction bomb is not a bomb that unlike burst and splat bombs, cannot be used for self-defense effectively. This is due to its prime time. The prime time of the suction bomb is quite longer than that of the splat bomb. This means that it won't provide an immediate defense from your attacker. The key trait that I want to point out about the difference between the Active Back and the Passive Back is not that the user has a sub weapon to defend themselves with, but that they have a sub weapon to
Efficiently defend themselves with. In my experience trying to get the suction bomb to work as defensive for weapons, it does not work. Suction Bomb's skill lies in going on the offense to suppress the ability of slow moving defensive weapons like Dynamo roller and the Chargers and killing people hiding undercover from overwhelming fire.

This is why I say it is either Assassin or Passive Back. As for mobility issues, I have had none with this weapon, which does not limit its chance for being an assassin.

As for the new Tri-Slosher, I'd say it is a killing front, although it may even have the potential to be a turfing front weapon.

 

[JFL]

l don't see how suction bombs are less efficient defensive subweapons than inkmines. Using a suction bomb generally is a powerful deterrent as no one wants to get close to it due to its blast radius. Of course it's not a good last resort option but due to the nature of the H-3 if you need your subweapon to save you in a confrontation you probably ****ed up anyway and even a splat bomb would only result in a trade.

l still have no clue how this weapon fits the assassin class. lf you look at all the other members of this class the H-3 simply doesn't fit, actually its characteristics are for the most part on the opposite end of the spectrum. Assassins are short ranged, the H-3 is long ranged. Assassins have a high rate of fire or at least the ability to ink a large surface in a short amount of time due to their low accuracy/wide AoE arc, the H-3 has one of the slowest fire rates and high accuracy which means any movement has to be linear as strafing simply takes too long to cover territory efficiently. Assassins have support/decoy/movement based secondary weapons (beakons, sprinklers) while the H-3 has suction bombs, a zoning tool that doesn't really fit well with stealth. Assassins have specials that can be used to punch a hole in enemy defences with the kraken or killer wail in order to invade their base while the H-3 has a purely support special with the echolocator.

Again, l might completely misunderstand the nature of assassin weapon but l have no clue how the H-3 fits with the kind of gameplay l've seen from rollers, brushes or splooshes.

 

[HappyBear801]

The H-3 Nozzlenose is a very different type of assassin, in that, it must be played with careful thought and extreme patience. One must be very skilled with the weapon and its loadout and know EXACTLY what one is doing to be successful with it. However, when approached, it can still put up a fight with its sub weapon and main weapon combined (Ink Saver Sub probably required though).

Tri-Slosher should definitely be killing front. Its loadout is created for pushing the enemy back by shutting them down with a quick mix of offense with Disruptors and the main weapon and defense with the Bubbler.

 

[SupaTim]

Theoretically, I can see H-3 as an assassin in the same way as Carbon Roller. You pop up, kill someone with one squeeze, then you move on. Echolocator is helpful for this, and the suction bomb is so good even if it can't be used as effectively for close-quarter defense.

I also can see it used as a mid weapon. It has similar stats to the .52, so it might fit there.

 

[HappyBear801]

I'd like to suggest a list of the specials and their best-suited placements. Here is where I tend to see them used best:

Splat Bomb Rush: Mid
Burst Bomb Rush: Turfing Front
Suction Bomb Rush: Mid
Seeker Rush: Killing Front or Assassin (my guesses; we'll have to see when Seeker Rush actually comes out)
Inkzooka: Killing Front
Inkstrike: Assassin
Killer Wail: Active Back
Bubbler: Killing Front
Echolocator: Passive Back
Kraken: Killing Front

 

[sammich]

I think Squiffer should be in Killing Front, because it basically is an Assassin if they know how to 'snap' snipe, and I usually go to the front lines as a Squffer. Otherwise, this is pretty accurate.

with my squiffer playing i do usually snake around the front, yeah... though usually it's not straight on. generally my goal is to take out stray players and stake an area for my teammates to take (though if need be the squiffer is on the faster side when it comes to inking). other times, if i'm blocked in an already claimed area, i switch to mid defense (bouncing back and forth from the front to just behind the front).

for me it's a bit mixed, where i stake areas to be claimed along the front lines, defend them briefly, but ultimately move on rapidly (the squiffer is GREAT at taking and defending an area QUICKLY but is bad at holding it for very long once your enemies regroup).

not sure whether i'm more of an assassin or a turfer or a front lines person...
more than "i COULD do any role" i feel like "i SHOULD do any role," rapidly changing what i'm doing to make up for the weapon's innate vulnerability.

 

[WesFX]

Love it so far :)
Not sure I can see the "Passive Back" category as anything more than "uncategorized" though, hee hee :P

 

[HappyBear801]

Where do you think the Carbon Roller Deco should go? It really all depends on if Seeker Rush is better for turfing or killing, so it should either be Turfing Front or Killing Front.

 

[Smoothshake317]

Guys, I have been playing around with Carbon roller deco, and I have deduced so far that it Could be three different strategy types. Often while using it I found my self loving the assassin style. I could not only benefit from the kills I got from hiding and killing opponents, but the seekers themselves. They could give me ranged kill assists for killing opponents far in front me. If they happened to notice the seeker, they would run undercover. This was my chance to kill them since I swam down my seeker trail, allowing me to get closer to my opponent. This is an observation I want you guys to take notice of. This weapon had quite a lot of mobility before, but now it has a ton of it.

This weapon also had me rethink the entire purpose of seekers in general. My previous attitude was that seekers were weapons of offense for killing targets. But, now I am seeing an entirely new purpose to them through this weapon. I am seeing a defensive purpose to these weapons. This sub weapon can also be used for defensive purposes such as throwing it towards an opponent who is far too aggressive and simply wants to b-line right towards you. Now turn this up to the power of 11 and you have what is called seeker rush. When I fought this thing, I could not even move forward unless I get killed. The streams of all out seekers acted like a wave in the ocean that spelled doom for me. In essence seeker bomb rush is an active back type weapon.

In the end, Carbon Roller Deco could be a multitude of rolls. These being Assassin, Killing front, or even Turfing Front. Until I can narrow it down, won't put it on the chart. Also, I am moving N-Zap 85 to turfing front since I have done more tests with it and found that it can keep up with the Jr. in covering turf. I am also moving Rapid Blaster Deco to mid since the suction bombs, while somewhat handy tools don't ensure it kills nor defend itself in the heat of battle

 

[HappyBear801]

Guys, I have been playing around with Carbon roller deco, and I have deduced so far that it Could be three different strategy types. Often while using it I found my self loving the assassin style. I could not only benefit from the kills I got from hiding and killing opponents, but the seekers themselves. They could give me ranged kill assists for killing opponents far in front me. If they happened to notice the seeker, they would run undercover. This was my chance to kill them since I swam down my seeker trail, allowing me to get closer to my opponent. This is an observation I want you guys to take notice of. This weapon had quite a lot of mobility before, but now it has a ton of it.

This weapon also had me rethink the entire purpose of seekers in general. My previous attitude was that seekers were weapons of offense for killing targets. But, now I am seeing an entirely new purpose to them through this weapon. I am seeing a defensive purpose to these weapons. This sub weapon can also be used for defensive purposes such as throwing it towards an opponent who is far too aggressive and simply wants to b-line right towards you. Now turn this up to the power of 11 and you have what is called seeker rush. When I fought this thing, I could not even move forward unless I get killed. The streams of all out seekers acted like a wave in the ocean that spelled doom for me. In essence seeker bomb rush is an active back type weapon.

In the end, Carbon Roller Deco could be a multitude of rolls. These being Assassin, Killing front, or even Turfing Front. Until I can narrow it down, won't put it on the chart. Also, I am moving N-Zap 85 to turfing front since I have done more tests with it and found that it can keep up with the Jr. in covering turf. I am also moving Rapid Blaster Deco to mid since the suction bombs, while somewhat handy tools don't ensure it kills nor defend itself in the heat of battle

Really? They ensure kills for me. And I use that weapon a ton.

 

[Galaxeon]

I've just discovered this thread, and it's awesome.
Your choices are really accurate, at least I can tell that for all the weapons I main/used to main (which are Octobrush, .52 (both versions), N-Zaps (both versions) and rollers). And I really like the classification of the 6 playstyles. Perhaps with time and experience the "mid" category could split into two categories for more precision, but for now this is great.

I agree there should be a special ranking and I agree with the one posted above by HappyBear, except for the Inkstrike. This really isn't Assassin playstyle, I'd say it's passive back. Or active back. But back anyways.

 

[Yellowkirbyguy]

I like the analysis on the seeker rush. I'll put down my opinion om it seeing as it's fairly new. While i'm at it, The Carbon Roller Deco and Rapid Blaster Deco too.

At long range, the enemy would of noticed a hoard of seekers coming towards them, Even if you aim the seekers while they're hiding, there would be enough room to maneuver, assuming if used defensively since in most situations you would be sending seekers into enemy territory. Its effectiveness tends to vary a lot, or you could be at the right place and at the right moment to get maximum effectiveness. Now putting into the context of the enemy team pushing, you'd need constant pressure to force the enemy to think twice about coming closer to a hoard of seekers. Though if the enemy is spread out, it might be tougher to accomplish since if one squid dodges a bunch and you're concentrating on another squid, you might find yourself in a bit of a pickle. So i think Active back was a good choice. Seeker rush is like Rapid Blasters at close range, if you can't aim it with its fire/deploy rate *Splat"... It's life or splat really.

Carbon Deco... Mmm, in my opinion. It still retains it's Assassin like qualities, but it has a less reliable escape with burst bombs and Inkzooka gone, so it can't be as effective on the killing front than the Normal Carbon Roller. Turfing front is viable, Seekers cover a decent amount of turf when used in the correct fashion, plus the main weapon itself is fast and can handle on it's on while spreading ink. It can be used on the back line defensively to ensure your side is always inked, plus seekers can put pressure on advancing opponents sorta like an active back. So combine what i thought, and you get mixed. That's how i see it anyway.

With the Rapid Blaster Deco, it was a good choice moving it from killing front to active back, there's hardly a chance for it if you're always trying to push, with an unreliable close quarters ability, it just can't last on the battlefield because it simply can't manage it. You could be surrounded, flanked, or generally aimed at by other killing front weapons. With two shots minimum i don't think it's possible to clear out the enemy team playing aggressively, i don't think you're always going to get two hits in, and Suction bombs can only do so much before you need to refill, which leaves you open if you can't manage your ink. So yeah Active back yay!