What Weapons do you feel need Buffs or Nerfs and how would they change them?

[Mr. 9]

Gotcha, just wish the escalator wasn't quite so high. ;)

 

[sammich]

I WANT to love the squiffer, but it still comes down to: What can squiffer do that splat charger/splatterscope can't do better? A faster ohko I suppose, but it's not THAT much faster, the mobility isn't much better, and you don't have the ability to play close and far at the same time. I keep trying squiffer and ending up back on splatterscope which seems far more versatile and not much worse at the same range with some dmg up.

isn't it depressing?

squiffer could use:

more range, more inking, larger hitbox up close or shorter TTK uncharged, shorter charge time, quieter shots (seriously the squiffer is one of the most distinctive chargers despite needing the most stealth).

 

[Dual]

isn't it depressing?

squiffer could use:

more range, more inking, larger hitbox up close or shorter TTK uncharged, shorter charge time, quieter shots (seriously the squiffer is one of the most distinctive chargers despite needing the most stealth).

It really could. The squiffer should have more range than the bamboozler.

 

[sammich]

It really could. The squiffer should have more range than the bamboozler.

i don't agree with the squiffer having more range than the bamboozler (i think it kinda needs the range tbh if it's gonna be a 2HKO), but i definitely think that neither one should lose or be in risky area with shooters that aren't the squelchers.

not to mention heavy and hydra splatlings who kill in half the time with twice the range and 100x the inking power and don't depend on a single shot to save their life.

 

[Award]

Yeah, and I think the suction bomb rush is really good too, but I can't really pressure with them unless they're in a corner because otherwise the opponent can get away and just go in the direction of the suction bomb because it doesn't explode that fast. Also, I still don't know what to think of the squiffers. Can someone help explain tp me why you would use them over the bamboozler or the Splatcharger?

I think dmgup really broke the squiffer. The point of the squiffer was the be a short range, fast charging charger, that has to get into the fray but can quickly do ohko. dmgup stacks on the longer range chargers give them essentially the same ability in the same range, making squiffer less versatile and redundant save for the specials. I play the splatterscope like a squiffer, and used to play eliter that way. But I get the option to pick off from range too. And splat bombs >>>>>> any other sub. :p Given that there's really so little reason to use a squiffer instead other than the slightly better mobility.

Bamboozler at least separates itself by not allowing ohko but allywing rapid shots at full range. So bambi can do what squiffer does better than squiffer, but at least the two allow different play styles, squiffer relies more on surprise and odd angles of getting the shot in unnoticed, bambi relying more on getting the shot in when they're cornered, or just gunning them down like a manual fire splattershot.

But squiffer just....it's a shame, it's so fun to use, but so impractical given the other options. To its credit I was dominating with it that infamous Flounder round where my team had 2 disconnects in zones, and I just kept going up the wall on the right zone holding it pretty solidly with Fresh Squiffer :) That might have been harder to pull off with splatterscope...but maybe easier with bambi.

 

[SuperLuigi231]

I know seekers have gotten a few buffs already (like with the width of its trail), but I think they would be a more viable option if they were a bit faster.

 

[Hitzel]

Seekers just need to cost less ink. One rapid Blaster shot after seeker makes no sense.

 

[xXDR.SWOOCEXx]

What they really need to do is bring back the Dynamo from the dead. That thing has been nerfed more than any other weapon mostly because of salt.

 

[Award]

What they really need to do is bring back the Dynamo from the dead. That thing has been nerfed more than any other weapon mostly because of salt.

No, it was nerfed because it was broken when combined with the horrendous netcode. As both a dynamo hater and a dynamo player, I still feel it needed the nerfing, not because it was an easy weapon to play, but because it was a difficult weapon to avoid, for all the wrong reasons. It's been nerfed so it's really handicapped which sucks for playing dynamo, but it was a way of sort of but not quite removing it from the game because it really needed to be - it was too dominant because it was too broken (@Hitzel disagreement in 5...4...3..2... ;) )

But if they bring back the Dynamo from the dead they'd better bring back my eliter too. If you resurrect one stupidly broken weapon, you have to bring back all the stupidly broken weapons ;)

It's problems were being abused. Some weapons like H3 and inkbrush never had a real chance. Squiffers got really ignored and lost their place. But the weapons I feel most sad for are the splat roller family. They were once great and between nerfs and everything else getting buffed, the normal rollers really lost so much of their utility, it's sad. I really liked those weapons.

 

[Saber]

Seekers just need to cost less ink. One rapid Blaster shot after seeker makes no sense.

Honestly they just need to lower the ink consumption on rapid blasters if they lower the cost of seekers .52 deco and carbon roller will become overused and the rapid blaster will still not be as useful as it should be

 

[Dual]

Honestly they just need to lower the ink consumption on rapid blasters if they lower the cost of seekers .52 deco and carbon roller will become overused and the rapid blaster will still not be as useful as it should be

Don't most people use the vanilla versions of the Carbon and .52 anyway?

 

[Award]

Don't most people use the vanilla versions of the Carbon and .52 anyway?

For carbon, generally yes, though I've taken a liking to the deco, and have certainly seen a lot of them out there. Making use of seeker trails opens up a lot of possibilities for movement and ambushing for a carbon that the typically excellent burst bombs don't have. But it can't play as openly aggressive. It's more of a sniper roller that way.

 

[Leronne]

Not a buff or nerf, but I wish the game would stop pairing E-Litres and Hydra's on the same team. It's virtually impossible to approach on certain maps because of the hydra's constant fire and fear of being one shotted by the e-litre.

 

[Airi]

What they really need to do is bring back the Dynamo from the dead. That thing has been nerfed more than any other weapon mostly because of salt.

The Dynamo isn't dead though... o_O You can hardly find a match in S/S+ without seeing at least on Dynamo.... Especially if it's Splat Zones. Dynamos really come out to play during the Splat Zone rotation. xD I'm not sure I'd call myself a Dynamo main but I am fond of using it during Splat Zones. Even so, I completely agree with most of the nerfs. The Dynamo was previously a very broken weapon that needed balancing. The Dynamo has gotten harder to use but that's only because it requires skill now. Before, you could swing the thing and hope for a kill... And you'd probably get one. Now, players have to actually think about what we're doing, where we're aiming, and how we're moving. Most of the nerfs aren't even noticeable either. I mean... I've hardly noticed any difference in the Dynamo from the "18% decrease" in the 2.9.0 patch. x) A lot of it is just about relearning a weapon when it becomes more balanced. ^.^

 

[Hitzel]

All the Dynamo nerf did was add more RNG to its damage and make it so a perfect shot can randomly not kill for no reason.

 

[Award]

All the Dynamo nerf did was add more RNG to its damage and make it so a perfect shot can randomly not kill for no reason.

Perfect symmetry since imperfect shots previously randomly killed for no reason. Maybe it balances out the lag kills :P (Again, not just from the receiving end, but also from the giving end I've had numerous "how the heck did I get that kill? I shouldn't have!" kills with dynamos.)

Completely off topic: But someone pointed me to the "batman" video...hysterical. I was so hoping someone would ask "did you ask for that?" to hear the "I didn't ask for this" response :P It's a perfectly suitable Adam Jensen :P

 

[Hitzel]

Perfect symmetry since imperfect shots previously randomly killed for no reason. Maybe it balances out the lag kills :p (Again, not just from the receiving end, but also from the giving end I've had numerous "how the heck did I get that kill? I shouldn't have!" kills with dynamos.)

Completely off topic: But someone pointed me to the "batman" video...hysterical. I was so hoping someone would ask "did you ask for that?" to hear the "I didn't ask for this" response :p It's a perfectly suitable Adam Jensen :p

Giving people with imperfect aim occasional leeway is okay (most weapons in this game do), but having perfect aim not result in what it's supposed to do is not okay in any shooter. That was the one big problem with the old 96 - making it so one of the most used weapons in the game will just randomly not do damage harms the game big time. It was just a straight up bad balance change.

Yo real talk that video has more views than my twitch channel. Pretty much every time I stream someone's like "oh crap it's batman!" lol

Honestly they just need to lower the ink consumption on rapid blasters if they lower the cost of seekers .52 deco and carbon roller will become overused and the rapid blaster will still not be as useful as it should be

If Seekers were to cost less ink, the only weapon to get buffed that doesn't need it is Tempered. All of the other seeker weapons need that buff.

 

[Award]

Giving people with imperfect aim occasional leeway is okay (most weapons in this game do), but having perfect aim not result in what it's supposed to do is not okay in any shooter. That was the one big problem with the old 96 - making it so one of the most used weapons in the game will just randomly not do damage harms the game big time. It was just a straight up bad balance change.

Well with the way the predictive movement system works (or rather, doesn't) in this game pretty much every weapon except the hitscan chargers suffers from perfect aim resulting in not getting the hit. They definitely didn't think competitive play through. Or at lest competitive play outside Japan's perfect internet. The predictive system gives a wonderful impression there's no such thing as lag and the game always plays smooth, but it will never work with accuracy, ever. I'd rather everyone freeze in place where they REALLY are when they're lagging. That's where their hitbox is anyway.

Though the balance change hasn't harmed dynamos as much as I expected. It was still the killer invisible waves of doom killing everyone when I played yesterday with the 10/3 dynamo running the map. Whoever had the dynamo would win. Everyone else was just there for the ride :P Fun when I was on the winning side, but the darned waves from nowhere got old when on the other team. Clearly the laggy dynamo won due to lag advantage.

Yo real talk that video has more views than my twitch channel. Pretty much every time I stream someone's like "oh crap it's batman!" lol

LOL, I believe it. It was a masterful edit job that seals the deal :)

 

[Hitzel]

Predicting your opponent's movement and aiming where they will be (leading your shots) is a fundamental skill in shooters. When you need to lead shots, perfect aim implies that you're also leading your shot properly. Outside of chargers, nothing in this game is hitscan.

I don't understand the argument saying that because bad network conditions can cause inconsistency, we may as well just make the game more inconsistent. The goal of balancing is to make the game better, not worse.

 

[Award]

Predicting your opponent's movement and aiming where they will be (leading your shots) is a fundamental skill in shooters. When you need to lead shots, perfect aim implies that you're also leading your shot properly. Outside of chargers, nothing in this game is hitscan.

I don't understand the argument saying that because bad network conditions can cause inconsistency, we may as well just make the game more inconsistent. The goal of balancing is to make the game better, not worse.

Leading your shots means player movement must be consistent with where they actually are. I mean Splatoon has an odd predictive movement system in the netcode. It tries to predict where a player will be in the absence of movement data. Instead of characters freezing when their updates are not received, the system goes into AI mode running the bot around the screen for other players based on the assumption of where they'll go, so it always plays VISUALLY smooth. What happens is half the time you're playing a single player AI character while it's waiting for player data for a given opponent. Then when it receives their update it corrects for it. Thus shooting at, or leading, you may still be shooting at air because they were REALLY somewhere else. That's for all weapons except the chargers that do hitscan, and you see some pretty crazy predictions where you find out from the kill tag that where you shot them was FAR from where they really were.

The predictive AI is a cool idea to make the game feel less choppy than other shooters and have a refined feeling of the controls (a Nintendo hallmark) but it messes with the ability to know what's really going on, leading to chaos during lag outbursts.

Where Dynamo as a whole design (nerf or no) conflicts is the SCALE of that arc. No weapon in any game that relies on predictive guesswork (I don't mean shot leading prediction I mean the game predicting where players when in the absence of player data - a.k.a. the teleporting down cliffs etc.) should ever have such a wide field of range.

Technically it's a little crazy the dynamo isn't hitscan. Being an ohko weapon with impressive range, I think that would have solved so much of it's problems. you'd know that the weider hit you dead center just like with chargers. If it was, maybe there'd be no need to have nerfed it outside the original hitbox nerf. All I can say is, on the receiving side, there are many deaths from dynamos there shouldn't be. And on the weilding side, I've seen a lot of kills from dynamos I shouldn't have had. If it's inexplicable both as the user and as the victim, there's somemthing wrong with how the weapon is working. It's not charger salt "ohh they're too hard to beat they should be nerfed" I've never used a charger and received a kill by missing. I HAVE used a dynamo and received kills by missing. It's not saltiness....there's actually something still wrong with it (or at least pre-nerf. I haven't used it afterward yet as I only beat Octavio on my original account which I don't play often these days. )