What Weapons do you feel need Buffs or Nerfs and how would they change them?

[Eclipsc70]

Hey they buffed everything I asked for besides Inkstrike... except all in the wrong ways! <(T_T<)

dat feel. i honestly was expecting the H3 to get a bigger buff though. just RM related damage? really? it deserves more than that.

 

[Saber]

Actually I have to admit in playing this weapon it really shines when played in rainmaker mode, the only time I really got splatted is when the enemy flanks you (which is helpless) or when trying to pop the rainmaker, honestly yes this weapon has a long way to go in order to be a decent weapon but right now let just work with what we got until the next patch... and hope the dynamo stealth jump nerf is enough for now

 

[binx]

I'm going to guess that either the folks that have the problem with dynamos are the ones on the laggy side of the connection, or the ones such as yourself that don't have as much problem with dynamo are the ones with the lag advantage over them. What you describe here "don't wait until the end of the flick" - that's the thing that's broken. Based on what you SEE the timing of attacking a dynamo should mean that you ahve the all clear after their flick.

Actually you got me wrong. I'm not talking about lag at all - obviously some dynamos (quite a few) have not the best connection. I'd even say it's a weapon that can use the lag as its advantage, so players with a somewhat questionnable connection might feel stronger with this weapon. But that's not the point, so let me explain what I meant.

I mean that, if you're not in front of a dynamo but more in his flank (for instance, in a wall while dynamo is on flounder), waiting for the end of the flick is bad timing, lag or not. There is the normal delay of the game + possible lag. But even without that, human just can't react instantly. So, you're late if you go at the end of the flick cause the dynamo will make another one. Go a bit before, when he is actually swinging (not at you, as I said). This way you gain a lot of time and you exchange way less. The timing is good when you're actually beginning to shoot at him while he is ending his flick, helplessly, in the wrong direction.

Well as I answered, I'd like to add that the bomb splash is deadly against dynamo. So, don't say Jr has nothing when his bubble isn't charged, I totally disagree.

Looks like somebody's been lurking around GameFAQs.

Well I actually don't know it. I'm at my work so I can't even load the page (some sites are not allowed, but SB somehow is ^^). So if you're implying I'm copying someone else thoughts, that's not the case.

 

[Award]

dat feel. i honestly was expecting the H3 to get a bigger buff though. just RM related damage? really? it deserves more than that.

I don't get it, they release a new H3 to address the underused nature of H3, and then they refuse to give it the buffs it really needs to become a practical weapon. Granted they don't balance based on S/S+ so maybe it doesn't need as much buffing for less skilled opponents, but then it's a hard enough weapon to use that I can't see lower tier players being able to make much use of it anyway!

Actually I have to admit in playing this weapon it really shines when played in rainmaker mode, the only time I really got splatted is when the enemy flanks you (which is helpless) or when trying to pop the rainmaker, honestly yes this weapon has a long way to go in order to be a decent weapon but right now let just work with what we got until the next patch... and hope the dynamo stealth jump nerf is enough for now

I agree, RM is where I was using it a lot too, before 2.7 when they buffed half the other weapons and left H3 to rot making it look worse than when it started. But it was doing quite well in RM!

Actually you got me wrong. I'm not talking about lag at all - obviously some dynamos (quite a few) have not the best connection. I'd even say it's a weapon that can use the lag as its advantage, so players with a somewhat questionnable connection might feel stronger with this weapon. But that's not the point, so let me explain what I meant.

I mean that, if you're not in front of a dynamo but more in his flank (for instance, in a wall while dynamo is on flounder), waiting for the end of the flick is bad timing, lag or not. There is the normal delay of the game + possible lag. But even without that, human just can't react instantly. So, you're late if you go at the end of the flick cause the dynamo will make another one. Go a bit before, when he is actually swinging (not at you, as I said). This way you gain a lot of time and you exchange way less. The timing is good when you're actually beginning to shoot at him while he is ending his flick, helplessly, in the wrong direction.

Well as I answered, I'd like to add that the bomb splash is deadly against dynamo. So, don't say Jr has nothing when his bubble isn't charged, I totally disagree.

Well, yes, it does seem to be a weapon favored by some due to lag advantage which definitely represents a problem - no weapon should gain disproportionate advantage due to lag (compared to other weapons.)

But about attacking before the end of the swing - that's interesting, but the problem is the lag. Are they swinging AT you or away from you? You have no way to know. If the animation shows them swinging away and you approach mid-swing, you might find they were ACTUALLY swinging at you and you get splatted. The only safe way, then is to attack between swings. But then, lag, they might be on the next swing even though lag shows their prior swing just ended. Having played dynamo, I KNOW that even if I get 90% through my swing animation, if I'm killed I do NOT complete the fling. Yet I'm often killed by dynamo swings for which the animation has not even BEGUN yet or just barely started. That means they were nearly a full second BEHIND me if they completed a swing before it registered I killed them. Lag deaths to tentateks are all too common too but there's a much smaller delay in terms of how lag interact with it. It's the phantom swing a second later that makes dynamo irritating.

FWIW I was playing TW yesterday against the very excellent dynamo main I referenced above. I had splatterscope so of course I had the advantage, but there were plenty of CQC moments as well (largely because we were targeting each other relentlessly :) ) and of course without the laggy dynamo syndrome he was much easier to deal with than other dynamos. Dynamo's core issue is truly how it interacts with lag, not the specs of the weapon itself. Of course this is a good dynamo so it's a dynamo that doesn't hesitate to rush a charger and fight close up. It was easier taking him out (no lag) than the dozens of dynamos I played against prior that would sit in one place and fling simply because the animations matched what was going on who could wipe my team purely by freezing time.

Well I actually don't know it. I'm at my work so I can't even load the page (some sites are not allowed, but SB somehow is ^^). So if you're implying I'm copying someone else thoughts, that's not the case.

I believe the intent of the joke was that when you mentioned the people complaining about their easy weapons not being good against certain weapons, thus the other weapon should be nerfed so the easy weapon can continue to win makes it sounds like you've been reading too many complaining posts on GameFAQs where people with that mentality seem to fester :)

 

[Saber]

By the way I theorize there is one reason they left the H-3 mostly unchanged, it takes away the power of a fundamental technique in the game, H-3 fully counters peeking, charger have to hid it behind an object use can easily shoot above charger hiding spots (or plant a splatbomb trap for when they run away), and this tool completely wrecks right side peeking since they can't fire until they are out from behind the object and by then the shots are already hitting them.

Not to say the H-3 doesn't need buff, but it actually has a unique counter to long range weapons in a way few other range weapons could (.96 and blaster can suppress but this weapon with proper damage up can splat in 1 shot) so honestly if more player used that we might be able to make this weapon viable until another buff comes our way

 

[Award]

By the way I theorize there is one reason they left the H-3 mostly unchanged, it takes away the power of a fundamental technique in the game, H-3 fully counters peeking, charger have to hid it behind an object use can easily shoot above charger hiding spots (or plant a splatbomb trap for when they run away), and this tool completely wrecks right side peeking since they can't fire until they are out from behind the object and by then the shots are already hitting them.

Not to say the H-3 doesn't need buff, but it actually has a unique counter to long range weapons in a way few other range weapons could (.96 and blaster can suppress but this weapon with proper damage up can splat in 1 shot) so honestly if more player used that we might be able to make this weapon viable until another buff comes our way

Interesting, but how exactly does it counter peeking? I'm not sure how it differs from, say, Tentatek or Jet in that regard?

When you say with dmg up it splats in one shot, do you mean only one of the 3 bullets can kill, or do you mean one single "burst" shot? If you mean a single burst, I don't think you need any dmg up at all (unless countering def up of course.) But the issue is, at range, the bullets travel so slow and have such wide spacing between them, it's VERY hard to land all 3 - making it more of a 2 burst weapon unless you close in and use it close range in which case it kills even faster than sploosh.

 

[Saber]

Interesting, but how exactly does it counter peeking? I'm not sure how it differs from, say, Tentatek or Jet in that regard?

When you say with dmg up it splats in one shot, do you mean only one of the 3 bullets can kill, or do you mean one single "burst" shot? If you mean a single burst, I don't think you need any dmg up at all (unless countering def up of course.) But the issue is, at range, the bullets travel so slow and have such wide spacing between them, it's VERY hard to land all 3 - making it more of a 2 burst weapon unless you close in and use it close range in which case it kills even faster than sploosh.

Sorry what I meant to say is that damage off maximizes falloff damage shots which means if you space it out right (which isn't all that hard) you can splat chargers and splatlings hiding behind objects in one burst shot and as they move out from behind cover a single burst shot can either splat them or make them drop the shot to run for cover (though most times it splats them)

 

[Award]

I think this best summarizes the problem with dynamo:

Spoiler: The problem with dynamo...

Sorry what I meant to say is that damage off maximizes falloff damage shots which means if you space it out right (which isn't all that hard) you can splat chargers and splatlings hiding behind objects in one burst shot and as they move out from behind cover a single burst shot can either splat them or make them drop the shot to run for cover (though most times it splats them)

How is the H3 particularly unique in that versus, say Jet Squelcher or SSPro beyond the semi-auto gimmick though?

 

[Saber]

Whereas the Jet Squelcher and the Splattershot Pro a player can react and still move or even trade before they are splatted, the semi- auto gimmeick gives them less time to react and therefore trades are less often.

This weapon also require you to take a pause due to it's cooldown function and even though this is a very negative effect, it means you have to look around, which I've learned you take more time to notice player patterns and movement options.
Also because of this you have to play smarter and change you postion countiously to make every shot count which with most weapons is not as big a problem outside of chargers, aka camping in an area will get you killed a lot quicker than with either of these other tools.

Honestly it is a difficult weapon to ever use but it forces you to be a better player which in turn betters how you aim your shots, trade less, and position bettter yourself with other tools in the game

 

[Blue24]

Whereas the Jet Squelcher and the Splattershot Pro a player can react and still move or even trade before they are splatted, the semi- auto gimmeick gives them less time to react and therefore trades are less often.

This weapon also require you to take a pause due to it's cooldown function and even though this is a very negative effect, it means you have to look around, which I've learned you take more time to notice player patterns and movement options.
Also because of this you have to play smarter and change you postion countiously to make every shot count which with most weapons is not as big a problem outside of chargers, aka camping in an area will get you killed a lot quicker than with either of these other tools.

Honestly it is a difficult weapon to ever use but it forces you to be a better player which in turn betters how you aim your shots, trade less, and position bettter yourself with other tools in the game

This is honestly why i want to give it a go. It forces me to potentially learn things and break bad habits, at least that is what i feel wilk happen when playing around with it

 

[Ulk]

I recently just thought of how a DI nerf would go for the Dynamo. As in decreasing their mobility in the air, so that side jumps and turning during jumps works slower, making it harder to flexibly kill more mobile weapons. Maybe with an additional buff to the sides of the hitboxes so they kill a bit sooner in return so the nerf wouldn't break their neck. That would make long range attacks a lot harder to use.

 

[Elecmaw]

By the way I theorize there is one reason they left the H-3 mostly unchanged, it takes away the power of a fundamental technique in the game, H-3 fully counters peeking, charger have to hid it behind an object use can easily shoot above charger hiding spots (or plant a splatbomb trap for when they run away), and this tool completely wrecks right side peeking since they can't fire until they are out from behind the object and by then the shots are already hitting them.

Not to say the H-3 doesn't need buff, but it actually has a unique counter to long range weapons in a way few other range weapons could (.96 and blaster can suppress but this weapon with proper damage up can splat in 1 shot) so honestly if more player used that we might be able to make this weapon viable until another buff comes our way

H-3 doesn't counter peeking, it's volley is too innaccurate to do so as the odds are too high a single shot will land against said cover. Trying to take out a peeking charger with a H-3 will likely result in your shots missing, the charger locking on to you and splatting you. Even if you approach a charger you're better off jumping next to the charger and shooting them.
Chargers are both the only weapon class that can use and counter peeking (Heavies/Hydras do it too, but slightly differently) as they have a very reliable accurate ohko attack against someone who's prying out of cover.

It has one thing going for it and that's its potentional to kill in one volley, something that is allmost guaranteed to never happen unless the target is standing perfectly still or you practise with this weapon nonstop. Even if you still want to get good with it, you have to deal with it's lackluster inking ability, poor mobility and absurdly atrocious firerate. I guess you could get good with it, but you might aswell practise with a weapon that's hard to learn and eventually gets good under the right hands.

 

[Award]

Whereas the Jet Squelcher and the Splattershot Pro a player can react and still move or even trade before they are splatted, the semi- auto gimmeick gives them less time to react and therefore trades are less often.

This weapon also require you to take a pause due to it's cooldown function and even though this is a very negative effect, it means you have to look around, which I've learned you take more time to notice player patterns and movement options.
Also because of this you have to play smarter and change you postion countiously to make every shot count which with most weapons is not as big a problem outside of chargers, aka camping in an area will get you killed a lot quicker than with either of these other tools.

Honestly it is a difficult weapon to ever use but it forces you to be a better player which in turn betters how you aim your shots, trade less, and position bettter yourself with other tools in the game

It surely is a weapon that can be considered a teaching weapon which poses a lot of challenges that makes you really learn. But a weapon that doesn't stand on its own and instead serves as a guide for using other weapons better probably isn't really working out as intended. A weapon, even one with a very high learning curve should be able to develop into a payoff that gives certain advantages for the skill (like eliters, bamboozlers etc (though even the latter seems to be getting the H3 treatment as they buff other things, with the wall-charger the bamboozler's unique roll is getting undermined again)) rather than acting as a gateway to better play with anything BUT that weapon :)

H-3 doesn't counter peeking, it's volley is too innaccurate to do so as the odds are too high a single shot will land against said cover. Trying to take out a peeking charger with a H-3 will likely result in your shots missing, the charger locking on to you and splatting you. Even if you approach a charger you're better off jumping next to the charger and shooting them.
Chargers are both the only weapon class that can use and counter peeking (Heavies/Hydras do it too, but slightly differently) as they have a very reliable accurate ohko attack against someone who's prying out of cover.

It has one thing going for it and that's its potentional to kill in one volley, something that is allmost guaranteed to never happen unless the target is standing perfectly still or you practise with this weapon nonstop. Even if you still want to get good with it, you have to deal with it's lackluster inking ability, poor mobility and absurdly atrocious firerate. I guess you could get good with it, but you might aswell practise with a weapon that's hard to learn and eventually gets good under the right hands.

I pretty much agree with this. There are some truly amazing H3 players that can make it really scary, but they've put so much work into doing so only to struggle with it. shun_one is one of those who talked me into taking up H3 a while back, and I'm amazed at his S+ rise with it, but surely he could do it with less frustration with other weapons :)

But yeah, even with great aim, it's not a lag resilient weapon in any way. More times than not, one or more bullets WILL hit (or you can shoot twice, hear all 6 shots connect, and still not get the kill) but it's rare to get all 3 shots to hit at range. That's why I felt it needs either a bullet travel time buff, or better, cluster the 3 rounds together so they hit in rapid succession rather than being so spaced apart. The slow recycle time would keep it's speed below L3, but the actual shot travel/spacing should be identical to L3, hit harder, but have long waits between shots.

Personally I use H3 as a CQC weapon (a faster sploosh) that also has PRESSURING ability from afar as well as turfing. As a ranged weapon it's really just a poor choice. I see its range having little value but pressure and intimidation from afar (and an occasional kill) and it's real ability is the close range ohko. But it just can't keep up with the new buffs on SSPro and such.

 

[Shun_one]

I pretty much agree with this. There are some truly amazing H3 players that can make it really scary, but they've put so much work into doing so only to struggle with it. shun_one is one of those who talked me into taking up H3 a while back, and I'm amazed at his S+ rise with it, but surely he could do it with less frustration with other weapons :)

I am just poking my head in to say the bolded times 1,000.

With the advent of the Cherry H3, now I don't think they realistically can buff it at all. That kit on this weapon the way it is now is the only way I can see anything in the game getting away with that in this range class and not be instantly too powerful.

 

[WiseSquid]

Bamboozler with slightly better ink coverage?

 

[Award]

I am just poking my head in to say the bolded times 1,000.

With the advent of the Cherry H3, now I don't think they realistically can buff it at all. That kit on this weapon the way it is now is the only way I can see anything in the game getting away with that in this range class and not be instantly too powerful.

That's kind of true, but it's a bizzarre mixed bag. On the Current H3 it still renders the kit and the whole package to "eh...whatever". So with the new one if they buff it it's too strong, and if they don't buff if it's not really much better than it was before. It's not great at turfing so charging the bubbler will be slow next to Chydra and Jr. The wall is good, but doesn't Jet already do the same thing with the same sub? It's kind of a telling statement for the H3 when it can come with a wall and bubbler and still yield a "I guess it's ok if you're into that sort of thing" response :P

 

[Saber]

That's kind of true, but it's a bizzarre mixed bag. On the Current H3 it still renders the kit and the whole package to "eh...whatever". So with the new one if they buff it it's too strong, and if they don't buff if it's not really much better than it was before. It's not great at turfing so charging the bubbler will be slow next to Chydra and Jr. The wall is good, but doesn't Jet already do the same thing with the same sub? It's kind of a telling statement for the H3 when it can come with a wall and bubbler and still yield a "I guess it's ok if you're into that sort of thing" response :p

Well with special charge up set with a nd a tenacity hat this set is probably ridiculously op or at least as close as an H-3 can possibly get

 

[Award]

Well with special charge up set with a nd a tenacity hat this set is probably ridiculously op or at least as close as an H-3 can possibly get

True enough. And it's not like it's a weapon that benefits overly much from other gear equips so might as well throw it in bubbler building. Tenacity though....I wonder how helpful that will be on this wep.

 

[Ulk]

Bamboozler with slightly better ink coverage?

Definitely something it could use. I think I'd find it even more useful in Turf War if they returned the Burst Bombs to their original state for the Bamboozler. Would of course be idiotic in the sense that this doesn't help the other Bamboozlers, but I think it would work much better. Burst Bombs can help you with a quick escape from enemy ink, which is especially hard for the Bamboozler. But unlike other charger types, this is actually a lot more cruicial for the Bamboozler, since it has to fight much close to the enemy's terriroty.

 

[Lonely_Dolphin]

That's kind of true, but it's a bizzarre mixed bag. On the Current H3 it still renders the kit and the whole package to "eh...whatever". So with the new one if they buff it it's too strong, and if they don't buff if it's not really much better than it was before. It's not great at turfing so charging the bubbler will be slow next to Chydra and Jr. The wall is good, but doesn't Jet already do the same thing with the same sub? It's kind of a telling statement for the H3 when it can come with a wall and bubbler and still yield a "I guess it's ok if you're into that sort of thing" response :p

Really unnecessarily long post inkoming!

Actually the H-3 is one of the best ink spreaders in the game, so it will charge the Bubbler as fast as any weapon, and it can charge it quite safely with it's solid range and Splash Walls while still being close and mobile enough to share the Bubble with teammates, giving it a nice niche among the Bubbler.weapons. Yeah the Jet Squelcher also has Splash Walls, as do many other weapons, but to me it's the kit as a whole that matters, and the Cherry H-3's is unique as no weapon has Wall + Bubble, and no medium/long ranged shooter has Bubble period. A better comparison to say it's still in the shadow of other weapons would be the .96 Deco since it's in the same range tier with an invincibility special of it's own.

However, unlike H-3/D vs. Dual Squelch/Forge Pro, the Cherry H-3 does have some differences and advantages compared to the 96 Deco, though admittedly it's all from the Special. With the H-3's superior ink spread and the Bubbler's lesser points requirement, along with it's presumably light special depletion while the 96 Deco is heavy, it will be popping Bubbles more often than the 96 pops Krakens. Plus the Bubbler doesn't limit range, ink spread and mobility, and can be shared with teammates. Thus imo, Bubbler > Kraken, so it becomes somewhat of a trade-off, better main weapon or better special.

Of course, since the Kraken is still really good while the H-3 is still hard to use, the 96 Deco is likely still gonna be better and much more preferred, but atleast the H-3 actually has a solid to reason to be used now. Look at the Splattershot Jr. for instance. The main weapon is strictly an inferior N'Zap, they even have the exact same sub, and yet the Jr. remains popular, even more so than the Zapper, so having a different special (namely the Bubbler hehe) really can make all the difference!