Why Competitive Splatoon should use all Game Modes instead of one

[TheRapture]

Kelp Dome = Dynamo roller covering 50% of the map in 5 seconds.

I mean, that's just the nature of the game. But its a larger map so it could potentially contribute to less games being decided in the last ten seconds.

That's why we take a broad approach and test everything in a competitive environment before banning or not including something. Test before decisions.

 

[Agosta44]

I mean, that's just the nature of the game. But its a larger map so it could potentially contribute to less games being decided in the last ten seconds.

That's why we take a broad approach and test everything in a competitive environment before banning or not including something. Test before decisions.

Kelp Dome is the smallest map iirc. Dynamo can reach almost everything from the middle of the map. You could probably lose games just by 4 people ink striking at the end.

 

[TheRapture]

Kelp Dome is the smallest map iirc. Dynamo can reach almost everything from the middle of the map. You could probably lose games just by 4 people ink striking at the end.

Hmmm, yeah I guess. I thought maybe Kelp Dome had more surface area or at least just as much as most maps.

Anyway, that's kinda just Turf War - the mode in it of itself is going to have those swings. I personally don't mind that, but it seems like many do.

I'll still give Turf War a shot. I don't think its fundamentally unfit for competitive play. I'd like to see the mode given a fair chance in the competitive environment before being not included in tournament rotations.

 

[Kairo]

Kelp Dome is the smallest map iirc.

Isn't it the largest? o:
Pretty sure Blackbelly is the smallest.

Turf War and Ranked should honestly all be used, but have them be in different systems, since what you are trying to accomplish dfferent things in the modes. Squads could/should have different win/loss records: one for Turf War and one for ranked.

Something I'd like to suggest for competetive Turf War is to have the winner decided through the cummulative total of turf inked between the rounds instead of best out of x matches. Having it be cumulative represents the mode and fits better in my opinion. The whole point of turf war is to cover the most turf, right?

In this way, even if a team loses the first x matches by a little, they still have the possibility of winning/catching up if they have a dominant match later on.
Also having it be cumulative makes it so people will play up until the very last second, instead of just quitting the current round after being pushed back to their base with no way of winning at that point. Every single bit of turf would matter. People may also attempt to guard a large portion of the match with best out of x matches, attempting to secure an easier win. Cumulative totals makes it so that that strategy is not as effective.

Considering each match is ~3 minutes, and lobby time would probably be around ~1 minute, I'd suggest having 7 rounds in each squad battle, resulting in each battle being around half an hour.

Just an idea. :P

 

[Bottlecapn]

Isn't it [Kelp Dome] the largest? o:
Pretty sure Blackbelly is the smallest.

No.

*ahem* IF I must, I'll revive the old Map Size thread. but yes, Blackbelly is the smallest.

Map Size aside, I think we should all give Turf War a try. I'm fairly sure it'll bomb, but at least we can say that we tried.

 

[Hope]

I've had first hand experience in 4v4 turf rooms enough to come to the conclusion that turf is in no way viable, but we should try it and let it flop anyway.

 

[Agosta44]

No.

*ahem* IF I must, I'll revive the old Map Size thread. but yes, Blackbelly is the smallest.

Map Size aside, I think we should all give Turf War a try. I'm fairly sure it'll bomb, but at least we can say that we tried.

Link the thread? I thought Kelp Dome was way smaller than everything else.

 

[Bottlecapn]

Link the thread? I thought Kelp Dome was way smaller than everything else.

I'm updating it right now, here's the thread:
http://squidboards.com/threads/map-size-bp-thread.285/

From my results, Kelp Dome's the second biggest. Camp Triggerfish is #1.

EDIT: WOOPS forgot link.

 

[Agosta44]

I'm updating it right now, here's the thread:
http://squidboards.com/threads/map-size-bp-thread.285/

From my results, Kelp Dome's the second biggest. Camp Triggerfish is #1.

EDIT: WOOPS forgot link.

Is this based on surface area or actual size? Ink strikes look gigantic on Kelp Dome.

 

[TheRapture]

I'm updating it right now, here's the thread:
http://squidboards.com/threads/map-size-bp-thread.285/

From my results, Kelp Dome's the second biggest. Camp Triggerfish is #1.

EDIT: WOOPS forgot link.

Second biggest, I'll take it. As I said, probably a better pick for Turf War than most. Same with Triggerfish.

 

[D3RK]

As far as making Turf War competitive you could make kills a second win condition. Think of it as a pseudo-team death match. Most of the arguments I have seen so far against Turf War is the lack of win conditions other than the timer, which is a valid concern. I feel that adding kills would fix that issue and promote a more aggressive approach at the game mode where controlling the map means a lot more overall. That triple kill in the middle of the round means a lot more now, where it may not have meant much at all before considering how easy it is to recover in turf wars. Weapons that are generally weaker for spreading ink, but better at splatting, can pull their weight now also. Maybe add something like 1% to the total for each kill. Nothing major by itself, but it can still turn a game where you were clearly winning but lost in the last 30 seconds into a win. I'm not for or against Turf Wars so I honestly don't care what the community decides on. This is just something to think about before killing a mode without thinking outside the box.

 

[Bottlecapn]

Is this based on surface area or actual size? Ink strikes look gigantic on Kelp Dome.

Well, it's the inkable surface area of the map. BP is relative to surface area. It doesn't make up for the obstructions and the shape of the map. Kelp Dome's action mostly takes place in the center and side squares which is only ~65% of the surface area.

BTW, I finished the update. Blackbelly Skatepark is still the smallest.

 

[Agosta44]

Well, it's the inkable surface area of the map. BP is relative to surface area. It doesn't make up for the obstructions and the shape of the map. Kelp Dome's action mostly takes place in the center and side squares which is only ~65% of the surface area.

BTW, I finished the update. Blackbelly Skatepark is still the smallest.

I do my map size math off of ink strikes. Checked here to see if I was crazy or not:

Urchin

Bluefin

Kelp Dome

Maybe I'm just crazy but Kelp Dome looks very small.

 

[Bottlecapn]

I do my map size math off of ink strikes. Checked here to see if I was crazy or not.
Maybe I'm just crazy but Kelp Dome looks very small.

Kelp Dome's map is more zoomed in and is top-down, giving the illusion that it's bigger. Plus, if you consider that the other two maps are skinny, long rather than wide, where kelp dome is a square.

 

[Agosta44]

I understand that it's a different angle/zoomed, but Kelp Dome looks much smaller than Bluefin and Urchin, which is why I was asking if it was based on surface area and not actual map size.

 

[Bottlecapn]

I understand that it's a different angle/zoomed, but it looks much smaller than Bluefin and Urchin, which is why I was asking if it was based on surface area and not actual map size.

Kinda depends on your definition of "size". Inkable surface area is size, but there are some places you won't actually go in Kelp Dome, such as behind your spawn. Again, it only looks small because its wide rather than long like most of the other maps.

 

[Cobbs]

I don't see anyone saying anything like that, you're just putting words in peoples' mouths. The reason people don't want to run Turf Wars isn't because it "looks different from other shooters", it's because of a whole host of problems with it that we've already discussed. It's just not a mode many of us enjoy, for a number of reasons.

The perceived problems are groupthink, and nothing will change that until the scene develops and people change their mindset and take the modes that don't letter-grade you seriously. Groupthink happens in every gaming/activity circle, especially when it comes to formulating rules.

I've had first hand experience in 4v4 turf rooms enough to come to the conclusion that turf is in no way viable, but we should try it and let it flop anyway.

TW is a mode that depends more on the players due to how free it is. If groupthink takes a precedent, then the same thing that happens to anything will happen.

Isn't it the largest? o:
Pretty sure Blackbelly is the smallest.

Turf War and Ranked should honestly all be used, but have them be in different systems, since what you are trying to accomplish dfferent things in the modes. Squads could/should have different win/loss records: one for Turf War and one for ranked.

Something I'd like to suggest for competetive Turf War is to have the winner decided through the cummulative total of turf inked between the rounds instead of best out of x matches. Having it be cumulative represents the mode and fits better in my opinion. The whole point of turf war is to cover the most turf, right?

In this way, even if a team loses the first x matches by a little, they still have the possibility of winning/catching up if they have a dominant match later on.
Also having it be cumulative makes it so people will play up until the very last second, instead of just quitting the current round after being pushed back to their base with no way of winning at that point. Every single bit of turf would matter. People may also attempt to guard a large portion of the match with best out of x matches, attempting to secure an easier win. Cumulative totals makes it so that that strategy is not as effective.

Considering each match is ~3 minutes, and lobby time would probably be around ~1 minute, I'd suggest having 7 rounds in each squad battle, resulting in each battle being around half an hour.

Just an idea. :p

I like the cumulative idea. Really smart.

Kelp Dome is the smallest map iirc. Dynamo can reach almost everything from the middle of the map. You could probably lose games just by 4 people ink striking at the end.

Teams should be figuring out how to counterplay such strategies. If we really don't want to bother with having a complex sandbox metagame and just want modes that ask us to beat our heads against the tower/splatzones, then that's fine too.

 

[Drez]

I don't see anyone saying anything like that, you're just putting words in peoples' mouths. The reason people don't want to run Turf Wars isn't because it "looks different from other shooters", it's because of a whole host of problems with it that we've already discussed. It's just not a mode many of us enjoy, for a number of reasons.

That's just your own preference, and I respect that. It's a mode that they can fix, and many of us would be alright with that. Those that would still not enjoy TF, can enjoy Splatzones and/or Tower Control. I'd rather it be more balanced anyway. I can agree that it's unbalanced. Therefore, 'let there be all modes'.

 

[Drez]

Just to point out, obviously we'll have to wait to get 'squad' matches and simply skype up or teamspeak up.

 

[missingno]

The perceived problems are groupthink, and nothing will change that until the scene develops and people change their mindset and take the modes that don't letter-grade you seriously. Groupthink happens in every gaming/activity circle, especially when it comes to formulating rules.

You really think it's just groupthink that the final 30 seconds are weighted so much more heavily than the first 2:30 combined? That the mode requires players to spread out more, and that this reduces combat and action? Do you really think these things are suddenly going to suddenly change in August?