Banning Weapons or Maps?

[Mayday]

Two things that could be potentially ban-worthy:

-Squid Beacon for obvious reasons
-Any loadout set that includes the Bubbler special (5 seconds of invulnerability could break the meta)

If we ban Bubble than there is a strong case that we would have to ban the Kraken too. I wish that Bubble and Kraken would break after receiving a certain amount of damage

 

[Vexen]

If we ban Bubble than there is a strong case that we would have to ban the Kraken too. I wish that Bubble and Kraken would break after receiving a certain amount of damage

I think that would make both balanced, currently being unkillable for like 5 seconds is rather strong right now

 

[flc]

Two things that could be potentially ban-worthy:

-Squid Beacon for obvious reasons
-Any loadout set that includes the Bubbler special (5 seconds of invulnerability could break the meta)

disregarding the fact that discussing bans at this point of the game's existence is supremely idiotic:

Beacon is not even slightly OP, since they appear on your minimap regardless of which team you're on and give no information to the team who owns them about what is waiting for them (e.g. campers or whatever)

Bubbler is available on weapons that either suck (jr) or build special very slowly (blaster, charger) and therefore is not even remotely problematic. It's very strong, but 4 bubblers can be held back by people just attacking from range and abusing the knockback. hell, solo bubblers are almost useless if people just look their way and start shooting since the jr has such abysmal range.

edit: oh and also "could break the meta" is the single worst reason for banning anything at all

 

[WECKmaster329]

Aerospray RG should be banned. It can build up the inkstrike way too fast, making it very imbalanced if more than one person on a team is using it.

 

[Life]

RG also loses in combat to anything with more range than a toothpick. It does pretty nice DPS but has just enough spread where it has to get into close quarters to take advantage of it, and if you've gotten into close quarters against someone with a weapon designed for longer-range fighting, congratulations on outplaying them.

It also counters rollers really hard, although a lot of things do.

I will admit that spread gets me kind of annoyed sometimes, but I mean there's a decent amount of RNG in this game and it's all contained in either matchmaking or weapon choice so it seems pointless to complain about.

 

[missingno]

Two things that could be potentially ban-worthy:

-Squid Beacon for obvious reasons
-Any loadout set that includes the Bubbler special (5 seconds of invulnerability could break the meta)

I don't see what those obvious reasons are, what's so amazing about the Beacon? As for the Bubbler, I play TF2, I'm plenty used to dealing with invincibility. It's a lot weaker in this game since it takes so much knockback, and most of the sets worth using it on are close-range only.

 

[Life]

Just because something is potentially the best in the game does not mean it's worth banning. You could make an argument that Bubbler is one of the better specials in the game, but considering how often it's attached to guns that can't take full advantage of it (I'd splat somebody to have a bubbler on my .52 Gal, but instead it ends up on random guns that wouldn't be good without it like Jr) it's really not that bad.

Although the only special that really isn't that good is Bomb Rush, and even that can be useful if you have a teammate that also has Bomb Rush and you use both at the same time.

 

[Howl]

Why is there even a thread about banning weapons or maps? Why do you feel the need to ban anything?

 

[Life]

That's a good question, actually.

There's a huge gap between how easy it is to talk about banning things (broken Street Fighter character of the season, Smash 4 pre-nerf Diddy Kong, whoever's the best in MVC3 I'm not familiar with that game, etc.) and how difficult it actually is to get a widespread ban on something (see the death of the Brawl Meta Knight ban). Even Smash stagelists and, yes, shooter/RTS map lists tend to vary from event to event. So I'm curious why there seems to be this widespread perception among young competitive communities, especially among low-level players (and we are ALL low-level players at this time), that anything that proves to be better than its peers deserves a ban.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The reasoning behind beacon for me is that you have continuous access to strong positions on the map after having only been there once. On bigger maps like Arowana, Underpass, and Rig, there are multiple places on the map that you might want to switch between, and if the beacon has already been established at one of those locations, you simply have to plop down another beacon and super jump to the other. It can also be useful for pushing or holding a position by placing beacons in side alleys out of the line of fire to allow your allies to back you up without exposing themselves to too much crossfire when landing.

 

[Pusha]

That's a good question, actually.

There's a huge gap between how easy it is to talk about banning things (broken Street Fighter character of the season, Smash 4 pre-nerf Diddy Kong, whoever's the best in MVC3 I'm not familiar with that game, etc.) and how difficult it actually is to get a widespread ban on something (see the death of the Brawl Meta Knight ban). Even Smash stagelists and, yes, shooter/RTS map lists tend to vary from event to event. So I'm curious why there seems to be this widespread perception among young competitive communities, especially among low-level players (and we are ALL low-level players at this time), that anything that proves to be better than its peers deserves a ban.

Definitely true, although in shooters generally the map/gametype lists only vary slightly, i.e. one additional map, or one replaced map. I think generally there is an effort from major tournament organizers to align there settings with each other as best as possible because they want to attract as many teams as possible. If for example a European team wants to play a tournament in NA, the settings would better be similar otherwise they wouldn't stand a fair chance and wouldn't get many opportunities to practice the proper settings against local teams.

 

[SquiddiamFancyson]

Aerospray is getting owned by long range weapons quite frequently on splat zone from what I can tell. Heck, the N-Zap that just came out beats it in range and is still ridiculous DPS. I think it was intimidating in turf war because ink coverage matters and there it's admittedly superior, but as a combat weapon it's sub par when against any decent opponent.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I don't agree that it spreads ink any better. I don't know the fire rate of it, but I'm sure it's not at maximum fire rate, like the aerospray series. In addition, the aerospray doesn't shoot in a straight line, while the zap does. You would be able to cover more area with the aerospray much faster, because of the fire rate and the wider spread of its shoots.

 

[SquiddiamFancyson]

Don't know if you're replying to me or if my post is unclear, but to clarify I do think the aerospray rg is superior for coverage. I was just trying to make a point that it falls short in the range department when it comes to killing and that in splat zone it's noticeably worse, though it admittedly comes with great subs and specials.

 

[LancerStaff]

While we can't say anything about balance yet, we can talk about fairness. I really hate the idea of grinding for gear in a multiplayer game, especially when there's RNG involved. IMO, I think that should be banned to keep it a level playing field. I don't want this to turn into Kid Icarus Uprising where it's all about who got the best loot drops.

...Uh, KIU isn't like that at all. You will never randomly get anything beyond decent from random drops. It's possible to fuse weapons all the way up to v330 and you can even have v100 weapons with stars and mods if you're good enough, but v299 is ideal for most sets. The game wouldn't be played today if it weren't for the weapon synthesis system and RNG drops.

As something a bit more relevant to the topic at hand, ordering equipment nullifies the need to ban it. Somebody get something OP? Order it yourself! Doesn't have the exact right skills? Try again tomorrow. Heck, if you end up with a bad skill on your own thing let a friend order it until the bad skill isn't carried over to his system, have him level it, then order it back. Equipment is both easy to spread, and simple to control. Is it time consuming? Yep. But we have nothing but time until organized play becomes a thing in August. Get yer butts in gear and make your perfect sets by then!

 

[teamdelibird]

As a jr. main: No way bubbler is broken. It takes a decent amount of skill to use even with arguably the best gun it's paired with (the jr.) The bad range means that I often get pushed back before I can get a kill. It's useful for big pushes in the early and late match. And I can definitely do some damage with it, but skilled players can also easily play around it.

Also, banning it would kill my favorite set :(

 

[Life]

As a jr. main: No way bubbler is broken. It takes a decent amount of skill to use even with arguably the best gun it's paired with (the jr.) The bad range means that I often get pushed back before I can get a kill. It's useful for big pushes in the early and late match. And I can definitely do some damage with it, but skilled players can also easily play around it.

Also, banning it would kill my favorite set :(

Nobody's banning anything in the foreseeable future. You can rest easy for the time being. (You seemed to need the reassurance hehe)

 

[missingno]

The reasoning behind beacon for me is that you have continuous access to strong positions on the map after having only been there once. On bigger maps like Arowana, Underpass, and Rig, there are multiple places on the map that you might want to switch between, and if the beacon has already been established at one of those locations, you simply have to plop down another beacon and super jump to the other. It can also be useful for pushing or holding a position by placing beacons in side alleys out of the line of fire to allow your allies to back you up without exposing themselves to too much crossfire when landing.

You know you can just destroy enemy beacons, right? It even shows them to both teams on the map. If you're really feeling evil, you could also wait by an enemy beacon to kill anyone trying to use it.

...Uh, KIU isn't like that at all. You will never randomly get anything beyond decent from random drops. It's possible to fuse weapons all the way up to v330 and you can even have v100 weapons with stars and mods if you're good enough, but v299 is ideal for most sets. The game wouldn't be played today if it weren't for the weapon synthesis system and RNG drops.

Fusion is more or less random too, I know there's some sort of obtuse pattern but it's close to impossible to get the perfect ingredients that will inherit the exact min-maxed combo you want. Finding ingredients is still ultimately luck in the end, especially when you can't even tell what you can chain fuse out of the things you have (yes, I know there's calculators for the weapon itself, but the stats are too unpredictable). You know what I meant, it's the same problem.

I would actually really love to see the game played with base 100 weapons only. I think it would have been perfect. Much less grindy, may take some work to find 100s but not nearly as much. And it'd remove a lot of silly bullshit - no more OHKOs, no more +homing Eyetracks, and you'd get to savor a longer match that doesn't bring the angel out in just 4 kills. I really don't see how RNG is supposed to benefit the game - and last I checked, it was pretty dead, never even got a serious competitive scene in the first place.

 

[LancerStaff]

Fusion is more or less random too, I know there's some sort of obtuse pattern but it's close to impossible to get the perfect ingredients that will inherit the exact min-maxed combo you want. Finding ingredients is still ultimately luck in the end, especially when you can't even tell what you can chain fuse out of the things you have (yes, I know there's calculators for the weapon itself, but the stats are too unpredictable). You know what I meant, it's the same problem.

I would actually really love to see the game played with base 100 weapons only. I think it would have been perfect. Much less grindy, may take some work to find 100s but not nearly as much. And it'd remove a lot of silly bullshit - no more OHKOs, no more +homing Eyetracks, and you'd get to savor a longer match that doesn't bring the angel out in just 4 kills. I really don't see how RNG is supposed to benefit the game - and last I checked, it was pretty dead, never even got a serious competitive scene in the first place.

Not even a month in we discovered homepass for all your fusion needs. Basically you could turn you router into a Nintendo Zone with a name change and you could then Streetpass yourself without buying another 3DS. About a year in we discovered a glitch that would copy mods from one weapon to another for single matches, meaning all you'd have to do is assemble the perfect mods. With all this it's not even hard, it's like breeding Pokemon in gen 6. Anybody could just smash a few weapons together and get something great.

The game was designed around OHKOs. It's both the primary balancing mechanic and we have plenty of evidence that proves that it was the case. The very best rewards from the checklist are OHKO weapons (they aren't Clubs durr), and Mr. Sakurai tweeted pictures of a OHKO Samurai Blade that, while slightly redundant, would still hold up today.

If Rollers were Magnus Clubs, Eyetracks are Jrs. Just another fad that you'll never see again, being that they have zero shot cancellation (literally) and move slower then most Staves walk. You want OP? Try Geminis. Literally unavoidable with SR&SH+3, nearly undodgable, and don't break instantly like LOLtracks. Still rather tame in the context of KIU.

Quiet, but not dead. Seeing as we never got a dedicated site things got unfocused... Japanese players started playing like *** (where a good portion of the community was), save hacking came along, painful glitches were discovered and subsequently covered up by the community, and SSB3D and Pokemon replaced it as the primary competitive games of the system. Nothing a proper sequel can't fix. :3

 

[missingno]

And if you don't have a router capable of spoofing HomePass, you will never be able to reach that level. If you need external equipment to cheat the system with, that means the system is broken. That's exactly the sort of unfair playing field I was talking about, exactly what I don't want Splatoon to become.