Banning Weapons or Maps?

[missingno]

Unless there are just one or two weapons so broken that they obsolete the whole rest of the game, there is little point in banning weapons. But I expect there will likely be more than enough variety at the top tier. You probably will have to pick a top or high tier, but so be it, welcome to most games. As long as there's still a good number of viable options to pick from, bans should not be necessary, and they probably wouldn't increase the variety anyway if you're banning more weapons than however many are made viable by the bans.

Gear on the other hand I do see becoming an issue simply because it's all RNG grinding. If there are certain top tier builds that matters a lot, and it's hard for players to even get those builds, that's a problem we may have to address. It just wouldn't be fair if some players have access to the best and others don't.

Honestly if it were up to me I'd just say no gear at all, unequip everything, it's the only way to be 100% fair. But I kinda doubt people are gonna be willing to agree to that.

 

[Pusha]

Honestly if it were up to me I'd just say no gear at all, unequip everything, it's the only way to be 100% fair. But I kinda doubt people are gonna be willing to agree to that.

I was thinking about something like that too. Nothing wrong with vanilla settings, but that'll depend on how easily gear can be accessed and how influential it becomes. We could also potentially see something down the line like a standard set of gear that all players have to wear, something easily accessible and balanced (because idk if you can even remove gear entirely, maybe it comes with default and you can only swag gear out?)

 

[FuncDetail]

What I hope that Nintendo added in the August Update's custom match is the ability to deactivate gear's abilities much like the Barebone playlist in CoD does with perks. To be quite honest, forcing players to wear a specific set of gear sounds a lot like a very last resort.

 

[WaifuRaccoonBL]

Banned from Splat Zones.

I'm...not sure I get the joke...

Anyway, spawn camping issues? Doubt we actually have any. There are plenty of subs and specials to help stop it if you really can't deal with it.

Take the echolocator for example. Now they can't hide in ink or below/behind walls and slopes. The Splat bomb is a good tool because of the arc is makes. If they happen to be below your ground level, this can scare them away.

Ink strike and Inkzooka are also excellent for getting rid of campers. What about that sub that seeks enemies out? That should be good as well.

Seriously, there are many options for getting out of it.

 

[Agosta44]

Yes it's a joke. Inkstrike is enough to take control of a zone/force enemy to lose control by itself and the amount of ink you can throw with it is incredible. Splat Bomb is a great sub too.

 

[WaifuRaccoonBL]

Yes it's a joke. Inkstrike is enough to take control of a zone/force enemy to lose control by itself and the amount of ink you can throw with it is incredible. Splat Bomb is a great sub too.

Well, the reason I didn't get it was because we knew about weapons having inkstrike before so not too surprising.

Making it serious for a moment, there are actually some maps that require controlling multiple locations at once, so the inkstrike isn't as helpful in those cases, (but still pretty helpful).

 

[CloneHat]

Why are people trying to get things banned before the game comes out? Remember how a week ago the roller was considered overpowered? I'm willing to bet anything people think is an issue in this thread will be proven wrong within two weeks of the game's release.
Dedicate yourself to knowing every weapon and strategy, and how to counter each of them, instead of limiting your field of view so early on.

 

[Agosta44]

Well, the reason I didn't get it was because we knew about weapons having inkstrike before so not too surprising.

Making it serious for a moment, there are actually some maps that require controlling multiple locations at once, so the inkstrike isn't as helpful in those cases, (but still pretty helpful).

Actually it's very helpful as you can take 1 zone with an inkstrike while your 3 teammates can contest the other and kill the other team.

 

[thehard]

and that's how i know you have no idea why things are banned in tf2

weapons aren't banned in tf2 because players just don't like it. if i could i'd ban the black box because i think it's annoying the soldier has another source of regaining health, but it's not a bad weapon, it's fair and balanced and everyone knows that, so it's let in, even if it's annoying to have a roaming soldier worrying even less about health. things in competitive tf2 are banned because they slow down the game, either because they're op or have bad design choices. for example, the mad milk is banned because it more or less eliminates the need to seek out health kits or rely on your medic, because when the other team pushes the scout can just milk them and ruin the push. if the mad milk was allowed, every scout would be using it and the meta would be stale and over-centralized, even though the weapon isn't really overpowered in the sense that it kills things faster or helps you play your role better.

most competitive shooter communities do this as well (unless you're playing counter strike, which is in its really odd completely independent state in esports where pretty much anything goes since 1.6 in the year 2000 and has valve patching some things sometimes) and imo splatoon should follow this same path. if a weapon set or combination of abilities is overpowered, over-centralizing, or otherwise unhealthy to the established meta, don't let it in. it's not a fighting game where things would be better off letting the meta find itself, we have some control over the meta of the game we're playing and we can better it.

the game comes out in 4 days, and private lobbies are coming in an update in august. we have plenty of time to find out what's healthy and what's not before the competitive community can truly kick into overdrive.

I've played TF2 for 4 years and followed the competitive scene for about that long, I know exactly what I'm talking about. What's "healthy" quickly equates to what's "preferred" and I'd rather not see this game go down that path. There's a reason comp TF2 is ever shrinking

How can you possibly explain whitelists varying between leagues? Or the lack of actual testing ever done for new and old weapons?

Most weapons are banned because of cherry-picked and oversimplified reasons, or class hate, or simply because rulemakers don't care (so many underpowered weapons banned...makes no sense). This much is obvious when you look at the scene objectively.

Slowing down the game isn't a legitimate ban reason either, lol

Hard proof is all I desire if you want to talk bans. Comp TF2 failed spectacularly on that front.

But that's neither here nor there

 

[piford]

How is anything even considered being banned. Banning things is something that's only supposed to happen after months of testing and seeing if something is actually broken. Banning things day 1 is extremely bad and can stop the game from being the best it can be, and it's not fair to people who want to use the things that were arbitrarily banned.

 

[missingno]

Nobody's even named anything specific they wanted banned yet, aside from discussion on gear which is for issues other than balance.

But turns out we can't unequip gear, nor is there there any consistent set we could standardize, so that's not even gonna be possible. I'm really not sure what can be done about this. Online, I guess we'll just have to put up with it and expect players to all go grind out their own set. But now I'm concerned this could render an IRL tournament impossible, a TO can't account for every setup players might want nor can they ensure that all 8 consoles have the same options on them. So... how the hell do you handle that?

 

[Kayeka]

But now I'm concerned this could render an IRL tournament impossible, a TO can't account for every setup players might want nor can they ensure that all 8 consoles have the same options on them. So... how the hell do you handle that?

Bring your own? The WiiU is a pretty compact device, and it shouldn't be hard to just pack it in your suitcase or backpack or whatever. It's all plug-n-play too, so with a little efficient thinking, you could easily swap out a WiiU in a matter of seconds.

All the TO needs to do is make sure there's enough TVs to go around.

 

[rokami]

If anything were to be banned in a competitive scene, I think it would be more weapons than stages. None of the stages seem to be particularly unbalanced, but we haven't exactly seen the DLC stages yet, have we? I don't think any of the rollers would be canned, because there are so few of them, but I can see guns like the Aerospray getting tossed out due to it's fire rate.

 

[Dragoomba]

This thread is pretty dumb. Just because this site is related to Smashboards doesn't mean you have to bring in the terrible Smash mentality of finding things to ban, especially when this game was made with competitive play in mind.

 

[ConnortheGoodra]

It doesn't have to be Smash Bros. to be unbalanced, this kind of things happens in shooters often.

To question this, there aren't any specific specials that outclass other ones, and they do take awhile to charge up (unless you're the aerospray RG then initiate inkstrike city), and a lot of the specials make up for weapons weaknesses, like the bubbler letting you scout out around you as the splattershot jr, or the kraken letting you go into enemy territory safely as virtually anything with it. Also there's generally a way to avoid a special and put yourself in a position to beat it, so given enough time and meta development, I'm pretty sure that every special will be able to moderately outplayed or countered, making none of them truly OP.

 

[swifT]

I've attempted to read through as much of this thread as possible as I'm extremely interested in Splatoon competitive play. And I'd like to give some of my own personal outlooks. Seeing as the game has barely been out and the meta has barely had any time to develop especially in terms of competitive play I'd like to give some of my initial ideas or thoughts on "banning". Sorry if any of this is repeated or not new ideas but i was unable to read EVERY comment there was.

At the current state of the game I don't see any guns needing to be banned. While some guns do appear strong I don't believe that they necessarily should be banned just yet. As the competitive community initially pans out I feel that all weapons should be available to be used for an extended period of time(at least 3-5 months probably more). I personally believe that strong team play, especially in a game like this, will greatly out way that strength of a single gun or ability in the coming future.

As far as stages go. Seeing as at the current moment we do not have have that many stages, and as far as I'm concerned having played a large amount of Splatoon constantly since its release I feel that all the maps at the moment seem very well designed and balanced. I feel that each map currently has its own appeal for certain strategies, and weapons. In a game like Splatoon as is now with the Turf War game mode I believe that like in most shooters there could be a simple pick and ban phase for the map too be played on. Similarly to that of other shooters like Counter Strike. If I'm counting correctly we currently have 5 maps, and with the new dlc map coming later today that would mean we have 6. So that would be as simple as a 2 bans for each teams scenario and then one team picks the map from the remaining two that would be left. And then the loser would be able to pick for the next game. This is assuming a 2/3 rule set, but personally i feel that the matches are short enough that Splatoon standard could be 5/7. Or maybe even closer to counter strikes number of rounds. Especially since the games are even shorter.

Looking at some people discussing TO's and what they would do with Splatoon, and the obvious variety in gear that players would want. I feel that this could easily be remedied by Nintendo if they truly want to support the competitive scene. Something similar to how smash customs work where players are able to transfer their sets to tournament consoles. Or even bring their own gamepad if that's even possible and use that to connect with their own character and gear.

 

[Seleir]

Think it`s pretty usless ban because if you can use a weapon, it will be a cancer for teammates

 

[missingno]

If anything were to be banned in a competitive scene, I think it would be more weapons than stages. None of the stages seem to be particularly unbalanced, but we haven't exactly seen the DLC stages yet, have we? I don't think any of the rollers would be canned, because there are so few of them, but I can see guns like the Aerospray getting tossed out due to it's fire rate.

The reason the Aerospray seems so good right now is because a high fire rate and wide spray makes it very beginner friendly. Doesn't necessarily means as much at a high level of play. Inking will also matter less in other game modes.

Looking at some people discussing TO's and what they would do with Splatoon, and the obvious variety in gear that players would want. I feel that this could easily be remedied by Nintendo if they truly want to support the competitive scene. Something similar to how smash customs work where players are able to transfer their sets to tournament consoles. Or even bring their own gamepad if that's even possible and use that to connect with their own character and gear.

That's a big if. What if Nintendo doesn't do that?

 

[Vexen]

I don't think weapons should be banned but there should be a limit on the number you can have on a team or a limit on the number of the same special. Take walleye for instance, 4 inkstrikes there would mean a team could go full out "murica" and napalm the enemy base while also fighting for control of mid, this could result in either a complete turn of map coverage or the most narrow of victories for a team that probably shouldn't have won.

 

[CloneHat]

Even if there was a best weapon, why would it be banned? Everyone would just play with that weapon