Convince Me v52 isn't Overpowered

[Catloafman]

52 is overtuned bc it's nogami's fav lol

Is this actually true? ive heard it in other places both seriously and not does anyone actually know if he likes the gun?

 

[Suchi]

Is this actually true? ive heard it in other places both seriously and not does anyone actually know if he likes the gun?

It's exaggerated but there is an interview from the Splatoon 1 days where Nogami says .52 is his current favorite. Of course that's almost 10 years ago so it's up in the air if that's still true or not.

 

[Hitzel]

52 is overtuned bc it's nogami's fav lol

I thought Rapid was Nogami's favorite?

 

[Dessgeega]

I'm going to necropost in this thread because Prochara did a whole video about why the 52 isn't overpowered!

 

[OnePotWonder]

I'm going to necropost in this thread because Prochara did a whole video about why the 52 isn't overpowered!

It's a video about why .52 isn't inherently bad for the game. It's still overpowered.
Chara suggested nerfing its ink efficiency by one third as a way to balance it in this very video.

 

[isaac4]

It's a video about why .52 isn't inherently bad for the game. It's still overpowered.
Chara suggested nerfing its ink efficiency by 50% as a way to balance it in this very video.

I would personally still want a lot of the buffs from Splatoon 2 to be reverted as well on top of the ink efficiency nerf.

 

[OnePotWonder]

I would personally still want a lot of the buffs from Splatoon 2 to be reverted as well on top of the ink efficiency nerf.

And I’d still like a one frame fire rate nerf on top of it.

 

[missingno]

A fast TTK is .52's signature trait. Removing that would outright kill the weapon.

 

[OnePotWonder]

A fast TTK is .52's signature trait. Removing that would outright kill the weapon.

A fire rate nerf doesn't drastically reduce its ttk from swim form. This nerf mostly reduces its paint and object DPS.
I figure that .52 players would rather keep their Splatoon 2 buffs.

That and I don't care whether or not the weapon dies. Though I am trying to keep my suggestions reasonable.

 

[ThestralZ]

If I had a nickel for every time this thread got revived I’d have 2 nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice lol. I did watch Chara’s video and I think what he said is fair. I still hate the 52 Gal because of how wall works, but he did address my main complaint in his video about how some weapons easily can destroy wall and others just die. All the stuff he talked about is fair but seeing how Nintendo hasn’t changed the meta significantly in half a year I think it’s fair to say that 52 will stay in this spot of being hated and defended.
Now @Dessgeega can we please let this thread die now

 

[Grushi]

I'll write a guide on how to fight 52s, I've got a lot of experience fighting it from hanging out in top 100s so I think I understand the matchup pretty well. If you know what to look for, I don't think the weapon is as insane as it seems.

I'll probably start writing it this weekend or something, so don't expect it right away.

And @youre_a_squib_now I know you asked for squeezer but I feel like I'd have to cover both. I also got more to say on 52, squeezer is... something else.

(@ThestralZ No, this thread has escaped your control. Look what happened to your creation)

 

[OnePotWonder]

Honestly, the best way to fix .52 is probably to fix wall. I feel like trading a significant chunk of its base HP for longer duration would be a good change, making the sub easier to break as long is it's actively under fire.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

I'll probably start writing it this weekend or something, so don't expect it right away.

I'll let you make the guide or thread or however you end up doing it. In hindsight it seems kinda weird to make a thread for the express purpose of one specific person posting a thing in it.

And @youre_a_squib_now I know you asked for squeezer but I feel like I'd have to cover both. I also got more to say on 52, squeezer is... something else.

I guess it was unclear but I was talking about both. Just .52 would be fine too.

(@ThestralZ No, this thread has escaped your control. Look what happened to your creation)

I think discussion about 52 is fine, as long as people aren't getting salty/angry about it.

 

[youre_a_squib_now]

Honestly, the best way to fix .52 is probably to fix wall. I feel like trading a significant chunk of its base HP for longer duration would be a good change, making the sub easier to break as long is it's actively under fire.

I like this change, but I don't know if it's ideal. More duration sounds like a pain for the weapons that don't have a good way to shred the wall.

 

[chaotik0]

52 is cool i get to turn brain off, stack nothing but qr and swim speed up and then get 20 kills just because why not

i have already said my piece on page 1 am i allowed to not be seriously contributing to the point of the thread like this i can delete this

 

[ThestralZ]

A fast TTK is .52's signature trait. Removing that would outright kill the weapon.

What would you say is 52’s signature weakness? Like when I think E-Liter I think “great range but slow and vulnerable when surprised” or for Carbon Rollers “great at ambushing but no range” What would you say 52’s weakness is?

 

[OnePotWonder]

What would you say is 52’s signature weakness? Like when I think E-Liter I think “great range but slow and vulnerable when surprised” or for Carbon Rollers “great at ambushing but no range” What would you say 52’s weakness is?

It's supposed to be its fire rate, according to Sheldon.

 

[isaac4]

It's supposed to be its fire rate, according to Sheldon.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a fire rate nerf. It still gets to keep its mobility, damage, and paint as well so it wouldn't even kill the weapon (not that I'd care if that happened) and having an ink efficiency nerf might force 52. to actually be more careful in how they use Wall.

I don't really like fire rate nerfs for obvious reasons but Machine already had problems with getting rushed, paint output, poor ink efficiency, and it's mobility wasn't anything amazing either so a fire rate nerf was a much bigger deal for that weapon.
52. doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of downsides though (if any) so I don't see a fire rate nerf being an issue here.

 

[DzNutsKong]

I'm going to necropost in this thread because Prochara did a whole video about why the 52 isn't overpowered!

I saw this video the day it dropped. I always like seeing higher-level players break down weapons like this and I think that aspect of this video was done very well, but the title doesn't do the video justice at all. If a .52 Gal main that wasn't super active in the community were to click on this video wondering why people hate their weapon, they'd basically get a one-off comment about how it's probably only from k52 and that the weapon's a little bit stronger than it should be, but fine and not worth complaining about.

I like the more optimistic angle there but it's very misrepresentative of the community and if this is what the video's trying to touch on then I'd argue it failed to do that. Funny enough I took a break from typing this message to go check the video's most recent comments and see for myself and sure enough, people were complaining about that exact thing.

I don't personally hate 52 but I totally get it. It has a strong case to be made as the absolute easiest weapon in the entire game, and the vanilla kit also has a strong case to be made as the single best weapon in solo matchmaking. I would fully understand someone taking those two points by themselves and explaining why a weapon should never have both of those things. I personally hold the opinion that they don't really go well together and maybe it's because I'm a midline player that will play around a 52 just as I would with any other weapon that has a Splash Wall, but I see a bit more in this weapon than that.

Gonna go a little bit away from the main point of the thread here but going off of what Chara's video explained and seeing the way 52 is right now from that, the specific thing I don't like about its big list of buffs is that they make it seem a lot more similar to other Shooters. I never knew they lessened the shot accuracy issues to the degree they did.

This is going to be a hot take and a half but I think accuracy problems are fine if they're in the player's control to at least some degree. In Pokemon's competitive singles scene, there are some Pokemon that rely on inaccurate moves to make progress. A lot of Pokemon's RNG is horrible but this is the one thing that I think it does amazingly because specifically picking these Pokemon will force you to think about the game differently.

Obviously it's ideal for your moves to hit but before you even send out these kinds of Pokemon, you need to already have a plan for what will happen if you miss and need to have it lined up before you even send it into battle. Sometimes you won't need to use this backup plan, sometimes you'll have too few options to even make a backup plan, and some games may feel like you're getting screwed over, but these will all even out with other people using the same stuff over time. This may not sound like fun to every person reading this post but not every weapon is going to fit with every person out there and I think this lends itself to a very interesting idea that a lot of people, myself included, could easily click with.

Ultimately, these end up being some of the hardest Pokemon to get the most use out of in the game. You could absolutely go in and click your inaccurate moves without considering what happens if you miss, and these Pokemon might feel very overpowered and brainless if that ends up working. But people who play like this will run into a lot of games where this doesn't end up working and will end up with either similar value to a "more normal" Pokemon or even might end up losing the interaction in a way that ends up dooming them later on. Winning like this is cheesy and definitely not unheard of but the good and bad players still get weeded out in a way that's honestly pretty cool to me.

52's insane kill time for its range opens itself up perfectly to have this idea, except apparently according to this video, accuracy isn't nearly as big of an issue for 52 as it used to be. Most weapon classes don't have shot accuracy problems period so this left the Gals filling a pretty unique place within these games. This is also just the right place to make it work as well since Splash Wall intuitively gives newer players a "backup plan" for if their shots miss. Just have enough ink to throw out a Splash Wall at some point during the engagement.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this since I haven't mained this weapon since 2022 before I was even in S+ but without this weakness 52 ultimately just plays like other Shooters. The only differences are that it has one massive strength in its kill time, a fire rate weakness that doesn't matter, an accuracy weakness that rarely if ever comes into play, and the fact that the kits likely won't be as strong since there are so many other short-ranged Shooters out there. Even balance aside, doesn't that sound boring to you, and doesn't the mental game that playing a super inaccurate .52 Gal would force you into sound much more interesting? Imagine being forced to use Shooter movement and evasive play during basically every fight to make up for the bad accuracy, doesn't that sound fun?

Everything else I could say about the weapon has probably been talked to death at this point. I don't care to touch this weapon because of how easy it is and it's not something I'm super pressed over. I just like talking

 

[SAMICOM]

A fast TTK is .52's signature trait. Removing that would outright kill the weapon.

ye thats the POINT